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Old 5th August 2010, 08:41   #2566
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
I went to TD the Punto 90HP. I checked 2 cars and both had same poor quality assembly and materials. The Drive experience was not much different than my Punto 75hp so i did not find it worth typing a review here. The Additional 15 Donkeys show their presence only above 3000rpm, Acceleration though better than 75hp version is nothing great. This VGT version has more turbo lag compared to FGT version.
May be it is discussed earlier, but is there any relation between the Tuning of MJD engine with the service intervals? I mean if the same engine is tuned for outright acceleration like swift, is it hard to keep a 15K service interval?
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Old 5th August 2010, 08:56   #2567
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May be it is discussed earlier, but is there any relation between the Tuning of MJD engine with the service intervals? I mean if the same engine is tuned for outright acceleration like swift, is it hard to keep a 15K service interval?
Fiat has been able to provide 15k kms service interval due to usage of Synthetic oil instead of Mineral oil which is used other cars like Swift and Vista sold with the same engine. Surprisingly, Mahindra provides 15k kms oil change interval with Mineral oil for Scorpio.

The gear ratios are more responsible for slow acceleration rather than the engine tuning.
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Old 5th August 2010, 09:41   #2568
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Fiat has been able to provide 15k kms service interval due to usage of Synthetic oil instead of Mineral oil which is used other cars like Swift and Vista sold with the same engine. Surprisingly, Mahindra provides 15k kms oil change interval with Mineral oil for Scorpio.

The gear ratios are more responsible for slow acceleration rather than the engine tuning.
Not gear ratios Anshuman. Punto is pretty short geared which should improve acceleration.
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Old 5th August 2010, 09:49   #2569
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Not gear ratios Anshuman. Punto is pretty short geared which should improve acceleration.
Would mapping + mechanical gear ratios amount to "effective gear ratios" (for the want of a better scientific term for that)? Is that Fiat's failing?
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Old 5th August 2010, 09:59   #2570
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Would mapping + mechanical gear ratios amount to "effective gear ratios" (for the want of a better scientific term for that)? Is that Fiat's failing?
Its more to do with the weight and how it masks the speed. I had Figo with me for a week and I though performance wise miles ahead of the Punto until I drove my friend's car and then looked at the speedo.
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:20   #2571
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Its more to do with the weight and how it masks the speed. I had Figo with me for a week and I though performance wise miles ahead of the Punto until I drove my friend's car and then looked at the speedo.
extreme_torque, cant quite understand what you say here. Did you mean Figo performance is miles ahead of Punto and masks the speed better than Punto? Just curious to know. I have never driven a Figo. Want to test drive one if you confirm "Yes".
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:26   #2572
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extreme_torque, cant quite understand what you say here. Did you mean Figo performance is miles ahead of Punto and masks the speed better than Punto? Just curious to know. I have never driven a Figo. Want to test drive one if you confirm "Yes".
Pardon me for jumping in, he said it's the other way around .

That is precisely the case with the Punto. One needs to look at the speedo to truly gauge how fast one is going.
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:30   #2573
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Pardon me for jumping in, he said it's the other way around .

That is precisely the case with the Punto. One needs to look at the speedo to truly gauge how fast one is going.
Amartya, thanks for clarifying this. Maybe my English is bad and I could not understand what was meant there. I will postpone my plans of test driving a Figo indefnitely.
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:41   #2574
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Amartya, thanks for clarifying this. Maybe my English is bad and I could not understand what was meant there. I will postpone my plans of test driving a Figo indefnitely.
I did a TD of both before deciding on Punto. Figo is better in initial acceleration. But i didnt like the small size and dated looks of Figo. Moreover when you sit inside, I didnt get the feel of a next segment car comparing with my 2004 Zen.
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Old 5th August 2010, 11:06   #2575
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Not gear ratios Anshuman. Punto is pretty short geared which should improve acceleration.
The First two gear ratios are too short, they waste all the time, then there is a gap huge gap between 2nd and 3rd which makes the rpm drop and hence more wastage of time.

The car is not detuned, it still delivers the same torque in a linear manner and power is same. If its not gear ratios why is Punto 90hp slower than the Swift? It makes much more power. Do not blame weight, a Swift with additional 90kg passenger still feels peppy.

The Palio derived gearbox with weird ratios used for cost cutting is the real culprit.

Last edited by .anshuman : 5th August 2010 at 11:08.
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Old 5th August 2010, 11:43   #2576
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The First two gear ratios are too short, they waste all the time, then there is a gap huge gap between 2nd and 3rd which makes the rpm drop and hence more wastage of time.

The car is not detuned, it still delivers the same torque in a linear manner and power is same. If its not gear ratios why is Punto 90hp slower than the Swift? It makes much more power. Do not blame weight, a Swift with additional 90kg passenger still feels peppy.

The Palio derived gearbox with weird ratios used for cost cutting is the real culprit.
While I agree that the gear ratios could have been better, I do think that the statement about the Swift being faster than the Punto 90Hp needs to be fleshed out a little more. Specially the fact that the Punto is significantly faster in the in-gear acceleration times. I had raised this earlier too, before someone else shot it down by saying that the Swift is faster. Yes, it is faster, in the dash from 0-100, but tell me, when do you actually go that?
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Old 5th August 2010, 11:51   #2577
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While I agree that the gear ratios could have been better, I do think that the statement about the Swift being faster than the Punto 90Hp needs to be fleshed out a little more. Specially the fact that the Punto is significantly faster in the in-gear acceleration times. I had raised this earlier too, before someone else shot it down by saying that the Swift is faster. Yes, it is faster, in the dash from 0-100, but tell me, when do you actually go that?
Can you please elaborate on how to find out the in-gear acceleration times for a comparison purpose? So what is the in-gear acceleration times posted by Swift?
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Old 5th August 2010, 12:22   #2578
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The First two gear ratios are too short, they waste all the time, then there is a gap huge gap between 2nd and 3rd which makes the rpm drop and hence more wastage of time.
Have you ever thought why??? With a 1.4 Tonne weight with two passengers, the 1.3 Liter diesel engine would be just not enough while starting say on an incline. Can you do it a Swift without touching the accelerator... no. Can you do that in Punto... Yes. While you may have taller ratio's, it would effect driveability.

Can you do 50 kmph in 5th gear with 5 passengers and A/C while going up a flyover in Swift without the engine or gearbox complaining???

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The car is not detuned, it still delivers the same torque in a linear manner and power is same. If its not gear ratios why is Punto 90hp slower than the Swift? It makes much more power. Do not blame weight, a Swift with additional 90kg passenger still feels peppy.
While I can feel the 1025 kg kerb weight of my Palio in the doors the way they shut and the way the chassis just dismisses the potholed roads, I cant feel the same in Swift Petrol which lighter by just 25kgs. Is there more to it, well may be? That apart you say the Swift feels peppy and we dont have hard numbers to prove the data so it is open to speculation. And while swift is peppy it needs to be kept over 1800 rpm to maintain that pepiness.

Speaking of personal experience during my drive of the Figo and Punto I always 'felt' the Figo to be wayy faster but in reality it isnt. That apart the 90 hp Punto tops at 183 kmph according to BSM, the most by any hatch.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The Palio derived gearbox with weird ratios used for cost cutting is the real culprit.
I have heard of power sap in an Automatic, but a manual and that too when it makes a difference of more than 4 seconds in 0-100 kph sprint? I am sorry???? Well it easier to blame the gearbox because you know its Palio derived but it isnt the whole truth, its a 'convenient truth'. And when you say Palio derived you mean the diesel or the petrol one? If it is the diesel, was it derived from petrol? I can speak of my Petrol Palio 1.2 and its gearbox which has one of the most precise and oiled shift action amongst all the hatchbacks.
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Old 5th August 2010, 12:36   #2579
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
While I agree that the gear ratios could have been better, I do think that the statement about the Swift being faster than the Punto 90Hp needs to be fleshed out a little more. Specially the fact that the Punto is significantly faster in the in-gear acceleration times. I had raised this earlier too, before someone else shot it down by saying that the Swift is faster. Yes, it is faster, in the dash from 0-100, but tell me, when do you actually go that?
The point is Swift is a faster car than Punto 90hp, 0-100 and in gear acceleration both included. The only saving grace for Punto FGT is linear power delivery with torque coming early and lesser turbo lag, but the 90hp suffers from more lag compared to FGT.

Swift 75hp 0-100:13.87secs, 20-80(3rd):11.96, 40-100(4th):14.72
Punto 75hp 0-100:17.84, 20-80(3rd):12.57, 40-100(4th):15.22
Punto 90hp 0-100:16.21, 20-80(3rd):13.97, 40-100(4th):14.72

Data:ACI

The Punto 90hp has similar power delivery as 75hp uptil 3000rpm, After 3000rpm the torque does not drop like 75hp making it deliver the 90hp power figure. Those who know the relation between Power and Torque will understand what i mean to say. The 75hp Punto has more linear power delivery with lesser turbo lag, hence its easier to drive in city.

Buy a Punto 90hp only if you intend to use the top end frequently. I have driven both 90hp Punto and Pete'd 75hp Punto, the Pete'd Punto 75 feels more peppy and is more fun to drive. Though i do not recommend fitting a tuning box, as it will lead your turbo to premature death due to excessive smoking. No matter what air-filter you use a car with tuning box smokes much more than the stock car.
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Old 5th August 2010, 12:48   #2580
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Have you ever thought why??? With a 1.4 Tonne weight with two passengers, the 1.3 Liter diesel engine would be just not enough while starting say on an incline. Can you do it a Swift without touching the accelerator... no. Can you do that in Punto... Yes. While you may have taller ratio's, it would effect driveability.

Can you do 50 kmph in 5th gear with 5 passengers and A/C while going up a flyover in Swift without the engine or gearbox complaining???
I have driven both the cars on a incline, both the cars pull without accelerator in 2nd gear on a steep incline.

Quote:
While I can feel the 1025 kg kerb weight of my Palio in the doors the way they shut and the way the chassis just dismisses the potholed roads, I cant feel the same in Swift Petrol which lighter by just 25kgs. Is there more to it, well may be? That apart you say the Swift feels peppy and we dont have hard numbers to prove the data so it is open to speculation. And while swift is peppy it needs to be kept over 1800 rpm to maintain that pepiness.

Speaking of personal experience during my drive of the Figo and Punto I always 'felt' the Figo to be wayy faster but in reality it isnt. That apart the 90 hp Punto tops at 183 kmph according to BSM, the most by any hatch.
I did not mention Ride, Handling or door thump anywhere. I was just talking about performance.

Quote:
I have heard of power sap in an Automatic, but a manual and that too when it makes a difference of more than 4 seconds in 0-100 kph sprint? I am sorry???? Well it easier to blame the gearbox because you know its Palio derived but it isnt the whole truth, its a 'convenient truth'. And when you say Palio derived you mean the diesel or the petrol one? If it is the diesel, was it derived from petrol? I can speak of my Petrol Palio 1.2 and its gearbox which has one of the most precise and oiled shift action amongst all the hatchbacks.
Incorrect use of gear ratios can make hell lot of difference in Acceleration. Just like i mentioned before the first gear in Punto is tooo short, similarly second is short too, then suddenly second and third gears are so widely spaced. Do you know the Punto does a wheelspin in second, And my Elantra which is much faster and powerful does not do it even with TCS switched off.

The European Punto 75hp has performance figures matching Swift D sold in India. It comes with the same engine, same torque and same power. Just a Different Gearbox, the gearbox we have here in Punto was adapted to be used in Punto, it was not designed for a Punto.

Talking about gearshift quality, Everyone knows both Swift and Polo score much better than Punto.

183kph actual speed= 200kph in Speedo.

Last edited by .anshuman : 5th August 2010 at 12:51.
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