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Old 3rd May 2012, 21:40   #4846
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post

So what I'm asking is if any Punto owner can please once again confirm if Punto is really best fun-to-drive car? Is it really more fun (better handling, road manners and high speed stability) than Swift ZXi/ZDi (no need to bring up braking issue) and Ford Figo or even Fiesta Classic? (comparing coz Classic costs same as a Punto 90BHP)
Take them out on the highway and try out a few quick corners. Fiesta Classic might just beat the Punto on the corners but Figo doesn't even come close. It's ride quality is good no doubt but the Punto wins hands down when it comes to handling, road manners and high speed stability. The Japanese cars have a different set of strengths. Swift is a quicker, fun to drive car. Both are good cars. Take a TD of Swift ZDi and Punto Emotion Diesel. It'll help you decide better.
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Old 4th May 2012, 00:14   #4847
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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There is no match for the Punto's road manners and high speed stability this side of 15L in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
Fiesta Classic might just beat the Punto on the corners but Figo doesn't even come close.
Contradicting statements.

Well, I already have done TD of them under all conditions. The report for the same can be read at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-vs-punto.html (Petrol Battle Royale: Figo vs Swift vs Jazz vs Brio vs i20 vs Liva vs Polo vs Punto). But I missed one car - Swift ZXi (did TD of VXi because I'm not paying that much for ZXi).

Assuming that you tested Punto and Figo on stock tyres (Punto: 195/60 R15 and Figo: 175/65 R14), I feel that your comparison may not have been fair. Thank you nonetheless for your feedback

More Punto owners, feedback in comparison to Figo please?
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Old 4th May 2012, 00:29   #4848
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
More Punto owners, feedback in comparison to Figo please?
Punto offers sturdy build quality, styling is more mature and does come with the alloys ( which off course at an addition cost ), Taller gear ratios and more roomier. Figo falls slightly less than punto on the premium feel which is your requirement. I personally wouldn't mind losing some power for the above reasons.
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Old 4th May 2012, 00:49   #4849
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

Lads first of all you are perceiving my comments in a wrong way as I am proud owner of MJD and wont exchange mine with any hatch out there in India. But the car still has flaws to be precise and we should debate it with some combined technical knowledge for a resolution. Bashing each other wont help anyone and ignorance will not resolve anything just by covering up the facts. Although ignorance is bliss at times. So do listen up with a cool head.

Every major company in past had problems/flaws/issue with one or the other models. For e.g. In past Porsche 911 in the past had a crank bottom end failure due to a faulty seal and a bearing and to this day they never admitted to it.

Mercedes had loads of problem(reliability issues) with their cars before the W124 was conceived and hence they made it so tough that later it was known as the best bulletproof model they had ever made. It was literally over engineered.

Range rovers are known for their electrical and air suspension(deflating) issue but they might have improved now.

TVR's hardly lasted 20k miles and the engines had to be rebuilt.

RX7 had issues with their Wankel engine rotor tips and required a rebuilt quite early. Although advancement in technology helped with better tips and prolonged engine rebuilds.

BMW E46 (early) had rear subframe issues which resulted in subframe mounts ripping apart, BMW admitted to it after a class action Law suite was filed against them and then they improved and repaired the effected cars under goodwill even after 5 yrs.

Flat bed trucks are having a gala time, thanks to the Audi, BMW and Mercs.


Almost every car has it's flaws and set of issues( I personally call it "Personality"), just as we mortals do. It's up to you lads how you want take it.

So talking about issues if I feel there is one is downplaying ?


@Autocrat I had 18 cars in last 12 yrs which includes best and worse of European, Japnese, British, American and our Indian cars. I worked on half of them myself which includes replacing a Nexia engine single handed so I know what I am talking about.

Yeah and what about this tarnishing Fiats image lingo talk, are you on their payroll? Tata has done enough to tarnish their image due to Fiats own fault. Look at their sales chart which speaks for itself. With Swift whose front bumper I can crack with just my knee should I say more? Although saying that I know the outer shell of Swift is very light but oh boy remove the outer sheet and the inside frame is some tough metal.

How much time have you ever spent in a T.A.S.C to ask around what mechanics have to say about a car or what issues are people having? Do I even need to know the answer!


Leaving everything apart and coming down to better solution. If a pad is too hard or to soft then find something intermediate. Changing pads is not the only thing, it's eating up the rotor too. So when the pads are gone and if the rotor has protruding edges on the outside then it should be removed and skimmed on a lathe. Which if you don't do it will reduce the life of the new pads and provide ineffective braking. Here in India we are not provided even the data on how much of metal can be removed of a rotor in its lifetime. Which if done too many time can cause serious safety issues. Normally its done once or twice in a life of a rotor. Certainly they aren't cheap.

But the question is how many people really care about this stuff or go in so deep to keep the performance just like new. So in this case it's up to you how to want to keep things under check. If it was just the pads then cost isn't a big thing but keeping the rotor in good health is another thing.

Reading a experienced owner's review is a good thing but that certainly does not means a person must have covered everything and everyone one has their own opinion and observation. Some can drive their whole lifetime and still don't know enough and some can drive not that much and still know a lot.

@nkrishnap- Next time if it comes to borrowing 3k then borrow a bit more and do get the rotors skimmed if needed. Which I think it would need other wise your new pads might not even last 20k with a new set.


Now for some known and unknown issues with the MJD in long or short run. If you don't have anything constructive to say then just ignore my post and move on. I will not be intimidated but you can try


1. Rust issue specially on Boss Nova White- Usual places = Edges of the Bonet, door hinges or front fender fixing points behind the front door hinges, rear boot edges.

Solution- Get a drawing paint brush and get a bit of paint made at your local auto paint dealer. Clean the area effected and it should have no oily residue and completely dry. Now paint the edges effected with rust. If you take care of it within the first 6 months of purchase then it will not spread further and you wont see the rust again.

2. Left pulling issue-

Solution- Sometimes it can be a tyre issue or bad alignment but if you have tried booth then only one thing left for you to do. This step should be take as a last resort- Get the car on the lift, there are 6 bolts on which the subframe is secured to the rest of the car- loosen them up. Take a long pipe or rod and from LHS put the bar into the subframe so that you can push it to the front. While someone holds the bar, quickly tighten up the bolts. If you do it too much then the car will pull to the right so it's trial and error. Take a drive every time you do it and repeat it if necessary. Usually it takes two trials to get it right.

3. Lesser life on brake pads-

Solution- Try to slow down your driving style. Find a set of pads neither to hard nor too soft. If you have no issues with braking and don't want to experiment with different pads then stick with OEM pads and pay up when required but do get the rotors checked when changing pads.

4. Water coming in driver side footwell. Even if it isn't then still do it.

Solution- Pop the hood and observe under the brake servo. You will see a black plate fixed from inside, thats where the clutch master cylinder is located from the inside. Mostly the bottom edge of the plate will show sign of rusting and if you through water on it then it will accumulate there. When rusting increases then water starts dripping inside into the footwell. It takes some time before it deteriorate enough to let the water seep in. Now you make ask how the water comes there in first place. Simply through the drain located above it. There is a black rubber drain pointing downwards and thats the culprit. During monsoons and if you wash your car every day then water keeps coming through the drain and onto the plate which results in rusting.

So simply twist the drain around 90 or 180 keeping the split in the drain rubber hose to front or one side. If that's confusing then simply pour water over the windscreen and twist the drain until the water stops falling directly over the black plate.

5. Issue with the rear axle/subframe

Solution- Fiat has already taken care of and it was never an issue which actually never happened as not heard of a single case about it. Some batches of Punto and linea (between Jan and April 2011) had some issue with the welding on the axle which could have resulted in a broken axle. Fiat had recalled the cars effected and they were replaced free of cost.

6. Clutch slave cylinder issue.

Solution- Fiat has already replaced the older ones with new and improved ones so no need to bother.

7. Ground clearance issue-

Solution- Fiat has addressed this issue by raising the height of the suspension. Pre 2012 Linea and punto can opt for the upgrade kit. For Punto the kit is around 10k for petrol and for Diesel it's 12k + fitting charges. Diesel kit includes front shock absorbers+ sway bar + rear springs and absorbers. Petrol kit although not sure includes only the front suspension parts and no need for rear suspension replacement.

8. Front tyre wears out from inside. Reason- It's due to -ve camber above permissible levels which is -ve .75 or anything above -ve 1. You can not correct the camber as no camber adjustment given in the shock absorber.

Solution- Nothing from Fiat as far as I know and the new 2012 models still have no camber adjustment(not sure though). Only Jugad can help you out. Some Tata dealers are providing underhand solution for customers with excessive -ve camber by replacing the OEM axle hub bolts with slimmer ones. It provides enough play to bring back the -ve camber to lower limits and not a safe solution. Other solution is to make a another set of OEM bolts with camber adjustment on it, enlarge the wholes on the shock absorber and weld a plate on it. This will get you the desired result but you will not be able to claim warranty on it if you ever required. Sometimes a new shock absorber or the top mount can get you the desired result. Most of the cars from any manufacturer comes with camber adjustment but Fiat never bothered.

9. Poor air filter design- Effects those with very dusty roads(rural) and damages engine in long run resulting in missing and loosing compression/ trouble starting. If it happens then usually piston no 4 taken the brunt. Have seen on two cars so far with booth of them loosing compression in piston 4. One died at 90k and other at 120k. Although rare issue.

If you see the Fiat filter box and Swift filter box then Swift box has far better protection from dust. One can see the filter edges exposed to the heat and dust on the fiat and if someone is negligent in up keep of the car then you can have issues in long run.

Solution- Keep your engine bay cleaned and if you do drive in rural and dusty environment then change the filter between the services or clean it once or twice.

10. Engine Cam chain- Effected models 90Bhp Punto and Linea. Known to cause stuttering/slamming chain noise. Some have reported issues as less as 30k to anything up to 90k.

Solution- Fiat is replacing the chains under a discreet recall free of charge.



11. Piston noise- Unofficially accepted by the Mechanics, Engineers, Service Advisors and unofficially Fiat has no clue why it's happening. Goes away when outside temp above 22C or in summers when engine warms up a bit but never goes away in winters no matter how long your drive even with engine temp on it's mark. You can hear it more on deceleration in first and second gear. Unofficially I was told to try out any Diesel Micra and I will feel a lot better.

Solution- Officially not accepted as an issue so no solution to it. No matter how much you will try to make them hear but they will pretend to never hear it that is if you can hear it in first place. 98% of the MJD engine owners will not hear it. So don't worry as this noise has not caused any known problem so far in any engines till now.

I want to try something but Tata guys are not allowing me to do so, citing warranty rules. I have driven three MJD and all of them had the same noise with more or less noise compared to each other.

Can anyone give any info on;

Similarities between the Swift and Punto diesel Unit.
Do they use the same parts e.i. pistons

Last edited by Randhawa : 4th May 2012 at 00:59.
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Old 4th May 2012, 00:50   #4850
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
More Punto owners, feedback in comparison to Figo please?
DevilsCry - Please test drive the 90HP on the highway (take it to best of your ability) and immediately after that drive the Figo TDCI - I am quite sure you shall have all your answers. I was in the same confusion when I had to buy a car for myself. Punto was not even on my mind , however I test drove all the cars and tried to check all the possible parameters - and Punto won my heart.
On the highways Figo is no close to Punto - when your engine in Figo starts getting coarse on 140 this is time when Punto joins the party with a brilliant ride quality and driving dynamics, steering response and BRAKING (I would say its the best in the lot). I am saying this only because i have felt it. My friend has got a Figo and he just envies the way car drives and its very smooth compared to the Figo.

Last edited by scofield : 4th May 2012 at 00:56.
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Old 4th May 2012, 00:56   #4851
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post

So what I'm asking is if any Punto owner can please once again confirm if Punto is really best fun-to-drive car? Is it really more fun (better handling, road manners and high speed stability) than Swift ZXi/ZDi (no need to bring up braking issue) and Ford Figo or even Fiesta Classic? (comparing coz Classic costs same as a Punto 90BHP)

In simple words it gives more feedback while driving and feels more planted. Although tyre choice can make a lot of difference.
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Old 4th May 2012, 01:46   #4852
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

[quote=DevilsCry;2766148]Contradicting statements.

Not really. Read carefully.

Assuming that you tested Punto and Figo on stock tyres (Punto: 195/60 R15 and Figo: 175/65 R14), I feel that your comparison may not have been fair.

Maybe not. That's why I suggested you take all 3 cars for a TD and let us know what your assessment is. It is always good to know what others feel because it adds to our knowledge in a way.
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Old 4th May 2012, 05:52   #4853
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by scofield View Post
DevilsCry - Please test drive the 90HP on the highway (take it to best of your ability) and immediately after that drive the Figo TDCI - I am quite sure you shall have all your answers. I was in the same confusion when I had to buy a car for myself. Punto was not even on my mind , however I test drove all the cars and tried to check all the possible parameters - and Punto won my heart.
On the highways Figo is no close to Punto - when your engine in Figo starts getting coarse on 140 this is time when Punto joins the party with a brilliant ride quality and driving dynamics, steering response and BRAKING (I would say its the best in the lot). I am saying this only because i have felt it. My friend has got a Figo and he just envies the way car drives and its very smooth compared to the Figo.
Both cars have their advantages but if there is one car that matches Punto's dynamics its the Figo. The punto 90Hp is more powerful, yes. But the Figo is easier to drive at lower speeds (no turbo-lag) and is more "chuckable" than the punto.
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Old 4th May 2012, 11:30   #4854
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

@Randhawa: Thanks for the insight on a number of common and not so common issues. Much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
3. Lesser life on brake pads-

Solution- Try to slow down your driving style. Find a set of pads neither to hard nor too soft. If you have no issues with braking and don't want to experiment with different pads then stick with OEM pads and pay up when required but do get the rotors checked when changing pads.
I replaced the brake pads during the 30k service although they had some life left (didn't want to take a chance with damaging the rotors or pay another visit soon after). Also got the rotors skimmed on a lathe soon after (40k mileage) as the newly replaced pads were deteriorating fast. Have survived till now and the mileage is at 55k - but I have this nagging feeling to replace both rotors and pads at the 60k service. Will cost a bomb for sure. In fact the rear drum lining has a slight squealing noise as well now, so add that into the mix.

I may get flamed for saying this, but however soft the pads may be, the excess weight of the Punto, brake responsive etc etc. - Fiat should have done more research before choosing the right set of brakes for the Indian models. 30k is no life at all for pads and I don't know what I will do if I had to replace pads at 15k odd like some members have done here.
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Old 4th May 2012, 22:36   #4855
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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@Randhawa: Thanks for the insight on a number of common and not so common issues. Much appreciated!



I replaced the brake pads during the 30k service although they had some life left (didn't want to take a chance with damaging the rotors or pay another visit soon after). Also got the rotors skimmed on a lathe soon after (40k mileage) as the newly replaced pads were deteriorating fast. Have survived till now and the mileage is at 55k - but I have this nagging feeling to replace both rotors and pads at the 60k service. Will cost a bomb for sure. In fact the rear drum lining has a slight squealing noise as well now, so add that into the mix.

I may get flamed for saying this, but however soft the pads may be, the excess weight of the Punto, brake responsive etc etc. - Fiat should have done more research before choosing the right set of brakes for the Indian models. 30k is no life at all for pads and I don't know what I will do if I had to replace pads at 15k odd like some members have done here.
Now here is true statement technically of a honest owner Some people can just jump to conclusion and make statements which amounts to nothing. What you have done after you realised the after effect of changing just the pads and not getting the rotors skimmed saved you a lot of things.

Actually not all the rotors of every car needs skimming but necessary for those when the pads start to eat up into the rotor in less mileage. Some pads just wear out but don't eat up the rotors that much and still brake effectively with a prolonged life. These are the vehicles which have been given a thorough testing keeping in mind the local environment.
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:18   #4856
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

This question is for those who got 2012 model of Punto, is your window glasses came tinted or normal glass only? you know why this question is comming.
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:52   #4857
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post

Having done TD of Punto myself (including the one with 2012 updated suspension), I would say that Figo is ahead of Punto in terms of handling, road manners and high speed stability. This is why I'm not sure if I should trust official and individual reviews about Punto being best driver's car. But then it might be because I've driven Figo for much longer than Punto so I'm more used to its lower center of gravity (compared to Punto) and hydraulic power steering.
The Figo comes with 175 section 14". Not really evens here. Drive one with 195 section. They are almost evens I would say. If you are so addicted, believe me you won't look at any other hatch (maybe Fabia, though haven't driven one)

Quote:
So what I'm asking is if any Punto owner can please once again confirm if Punto is really best fun-to-drive car? Is it really more fun (better handling, road manners and high speed stability) than Swift ZXi/ZDi (no need to bring up braking issue) and Ford Figo or even Fiesta Classic? (comparing coz Classic costs same as a Punto 90BHP)
The ZDi is faster off the blocks, no two ways about it. Brakes are good as well. Is chuck-able as well, but... You don't get the cocooned effect. Road noise filters in. Handling & steering feel don't match though & at parking speeds feels really fake. Is (ZDi) much better than other hatches.

If given a choice & on a budget, would go for the Figo, else the 90HP.
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Old 6th May 2012, 12:55   #4858
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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This question is for those who got 2012 model of Punto, is your window glasses came tinted or normal glass only? you know why this question is comming.
Yup, it does have a bit of tint but not noticeable. If you roll down the glass only then you would be able to see the light tint on it.
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Old 6th May 2012, 18:14   #4859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon
This question is for those who got 2012 model of Punto, is your window glasses came tinted or normal glass only? you know why this question is comming.
It comes with a light green tint, barely visible though. Even my Indica came with the same light green tint. It does little to shield you from harsh sun.

Since the ban is on dark films, how dark is dark? Its a subjective decision, also depending on the ambient light.

One of the reasons quoted is, dark glass reduces visibility. Will they stop people from using sun glasses while driving?

Hope sanity prevails and ban is reversed.
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Old 6th May 2012, 20:25   #4860
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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This question is for those who got 2012 model of Punto, is your window glasses came tinted or normal glass only? you know why this question is comming.
Mine is a 2010 model; the transparency is given on the glass itself, which is green tinted. "Transparency is 75% Min". The MV Act stipulates a transparency or Visual Light Transmission (VLT) of upto 70% for front/rear windshields and 50% for other glasses.

Quote:
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Even my Indica came with the same light green tint.

One of the reasons quoted is, dark glass reduces visibility. Will they stop people from using sun glasses while driving?
Yes. My Indica DLS too came with the same 75% transparency.
The visibility that's mentioned in the SC order has nothing related to the driver's. The SC is concerned over rising instances of criminals using black films for windscreens and other glasses of four wheelers.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 6th May 2012 at 20:26.
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