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Old 4th August 2009, 10:57   #841
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Punto diesel is good but yes its not as peppy as swift diesel. My feeling is when compared to Swift diesel or even indica the feeling of acceleration is not there because of its lesser in-cabin noise & heavier body I might be wrong. You have to keep watching the speedometer to realise the speed. Both Indica & Swift I drive have lot of in-cabin noise of engine, tyres & air.

During my test drive i was unable to get Punto above 100 due to traffic conditions. I would like to know the max speed it can acheive & how does its pick up react during over taking.

Last edited by kiren : 4th August 2009 at 11:02.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:19   #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
Auto Bild numbers make better sense. I checked Autocar again, and see that they have never done a test on the Punto 1.4, but have done on the 1.2. Interestingly in the table (in the back pages), 1.2 figures are missing while 1.4 figures are there. Now, the 1.2 figures in the test says that 0-100 takes 18 secs. Compare that with the 16.58 of the 1.4. There is something amiss here. I think 13.4 is a more realistic figure.

Coming to Overdrive, the tester also states that he did the tests in rain. He says that the rain has affected the figures (dunno how), and says that they will update the figures once they repeat the test in better conditions.

ps: 13.4s for the petrol looks okay to me. My Optra does a 13, I guess. I think I should take a TD of the Punto petrol. If it enthuses me, then I am going to ditch my plans for an automatic and buy the Punto 1.4.
I agree Auto Bilds figures are a lot more believable. Here are the accurate times for i20, Punto and Swift petrols.

Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol Fiat Grande Punto 1.4 Petrol Suzuki Swift 1.3 petrol
0-100 kmph 12.9 secs 13.4 secs 13.8 secs
30-80 kmph in 3rd gear 11.3 secs 9.6 secs 12.6 secs
40-100 kmph in 4th gear 19.6 sec 17.0 secs 23.1 secs
Top speed 155 kmph 157 kmph 165 kmph

Hope this helps.

I'm not sure which timing equipment was used in this test. I was wondering how much does such equipment cost? And is it possible for T-BHP to acquire one and use it to publish the times. This way we can stop relying on the Autorags once and for all.

Last edited by hiren.mistry : 4th August 2009 at 11:21.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:21   #843
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Some random pics of the punto
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Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-108.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-114.jpg  

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Old 4th August 2009, 11:21   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
NO ONE is claiming it to be a power house.
And yet we keep having these discussions all the time about 0-100 timings.

Quote:
another owner says he traded the S10 for the punto. comparison in this case is not fair.( still for him the power of punto is enough)
I am that owner. My thoughts on Punto performance are in my report so I am not repeating things here. To cut things short, no, the Punto is not a patch on the S10. But the S10 isn't as good as the Punto in dynamics and mileage. Now what? I should complain on why we can't get the Punto with the 1.6L TORQUE engine from the S10? Maybe 6-7 months from now we will but I tell you right now that the TORQUE engine will not make the Punto fun to drive. Reason is that the Punto is a good 80-90kgs heavier then the Palio so it will need at least 125bhp to give the same performance feel as the S10.

Quote:
the makers of the engine themselves cant tune it good. while all others who arent at all involved in the design of that engine seems to be able to extract better from it!!.
So why did the master tuner's of the Multijet engine fail to tune the same engine in the Ritz as well as they did in the Swift? Here is some information for you: (all figures from ACI)

Ritz - 1100 kgs. 0-100 timing is 14.36 secs. bhp/tonne 67.27. Euro IV.
Swift - 1075 kgs. 0-100 timing is 13.87 secs. bhp/tonne 68.38. Euro III.
Punto - 1190Kgs 0-100 timing is 17.84 secs. bhp/tonne 63.02. Euro IV.

Ignoring the gearing of the cars, the combination of heavier weight and euro IV norms have dented the Punto and Ritz's abilities. It's not me saying that. ACI says the same.

If you want to see the impact of gearing then here it is:

Ritz 20-80kmph 12.52 secs , 40-100kmph 15.36 secs.
Swift 20-80kmph 11.96 secs , 40-100kmph 14.14 secs.
Punto 20-80kmph 12.57 secs, 40-100kmph 15.22 secs.

How did the 90kgs heavier Punto manage to perform as good as the Ritz in in-gear accelaration figures? How does it manage to beat the Ritz in 40-100kmph timings?

Quote:
whats the logic? this is like saying. you cant bring out out the best of your own child! other guys can .
Have you thought that Fiat could have tuned the Punto to give that whoosh feel that the Swift does but they chose not to and opted for more linear power delivery?

Cars like the Fabia 1.2 and 1.4Tdi, i20 1.2, Punto 1.2, 1.4, 1.3MJD are being driven on the German autobahns and are doing okay but people driving on the Indian highways say they are underpowered! I know people are going to talk about power being more important for single lane highways here but when we have people doing highway runs (and surviving) in the Alto, M800 , Omni and soon in the Nano, then I don't think we are going to see too many Linea and Punto owners getting killed on our roads.

Last edited by amit : 4th August 2009 at 11:26.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:42   #845
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Post Deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Do NOT troll on this forum. Post only if you have something of value to add to the discussion. But unnecessarily submitting comments, with the sole intention of stirring up a fight, will NOT be tolerated on Team-BHP.

Last edited by GTO : 4th August 2009 at 13:11.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:51   #846
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@amit- i agree with your points, but in all the numbers you put, punto is the slowest (although marginally in some cases like 40-100). I am guessing this because it is heavier and these numbers are for the diesel.
Do we have a similar comparo with petrols?
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Old 4th August 2009, 12:52   #847
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Hi friends

Sorry for Cross Posting!

I'll be going to the Nerul Dockyard for the Inspection of my GP MJD Red - Active...though i'll be carrying the PDI checklist with me, i'd welcome anybody who is more experienced to accompany me for the same, since i'm a newbie in this!!!

Cant wait to have a glimpse of the one allotted to me, and so knowing me i guess i'd need somebody experienced to help me hold my horses!!!

i shall be getting the confirmation for visit by today from my dealer, so please let me know if anyone can join in...i stay in Thane!!! ( yep beer on me!!!)

Cheers

Ameet
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Old 4th August 2009, 12:55   #848
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Just saw WhatCar Magazine.They have compared Vista, Swift, Ritz and Punto.
On the basis of practicalities, they have rated them as following.

1. Vista
2. Ritz
3. Swift
4. Punto

Though I found the comparo to be lame and silly, being a Punto owner I am dreaded to see this ..

Last edited by CliffHanger : 4th August 2009 at 12:57.
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Old 4th August 2009, 13:08   #849
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My lil nephew's new punto
Attached Thumbnails
Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled1.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled2.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled3.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled4.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled5.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled6.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled7.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled8.jpg  

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-untitled12.jpg  

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Old 4th August 2009, 13:21   #850
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Lets see how all Multijet engine powered cars in India perform and their differences.

Swift E3 1075Kgs. 68.83bhp/tonne. 0-100 13.87s. 20-80 11.96s. 40-100 14.14s
Ritz E4 1100kgs 67.27bhp/tonne. 0-100 14.36s. 20-80 12.52s. 40-100 15.36s.
GP E4 1190kgs 63.02bhp/tonne. 0-100 17.84s. 20-80 12.57s. 40-100 15.22s.
Vista E4 1140kgs 64.91bhp/tonne. 0-100 16.36s. 20-80 11.79s. 40-100 14.87s
500 E4 980kgs. 76.53bhp/tonne. 0-100 15.18s. 20-80 13.82s. 40-100 18.68s

Punto almost equal's Ritz in 20-80 and beats it in 40-100kmph despite being 115kgs heavier.

Vista outdoes Swift in 20-80?

And look at Fiat 500. It's the lightest car here and still takes 15.18seconds to 100kmph? It's the slowest in both 20-80mph and 40-100 kmph run?! 13.82 and 14.68 seconds in 20-80 and 40-100s accelaration?! What went wrong? Or is something wrong with ACI figures?

PS: All figures from ACI.

Last edited by amit : 4th August 2009 at 13:28.
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Old 4th August 2009, 13:23   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
NO ONE is claiming it to be a power house.
I don't see anyone stating here that GP owners feedback is that Punto is a Powerhouse? or have I missed some posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
even those punto owners who even exchanged his swift for the punto had admitted that the punto is not that peppy compared to the swift. another owner says he traded the S10 for the punto. comparison in this case is not fair.( still for him the power of punto is enough) but the previous one is well justified.
Not fair, Looks very selective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
you can realize that the punto or linea for that matter are not at the TOP of the league of the current competition.

but that doesnt mean that a car like punto is fast or can be considered as fast!! as the other hatch backs on the market WITH the SAME ENGINE.
No Punto owners & no one who has done exhaustive, detailed & serious TD are saying Punto is Powerful or at the TOP of the league in terms of Power
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Old 4th August 2009, 13:35   #852
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Sid's pictures bring in a breadth of fresh air amidst the hot debate on Punto's performance

Well, seriously guys even FIAT agrees that they tuned the engine to address F.E. Enthus will always crib about this but they do have one Mr. Pete, right?

Punto's USP is clearly not performance.
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Old 4th August 2009, 13:37   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post

but be sure, in the slope with the current 1.3mjd diesels engined cars, the swift will levae all other including punto gasping. there is no comparison. drive side by side to know the difference. but yes less rattle and better ride quality will be in punto .

no pain no gain huh
Dear sir,

It will be nice if you do drives yourself and make the comparison on an incline and let us know real results. I am merely saying that 0-100 dash timings must not be a benchmark for power delivery and performance. There are numerous other factors that have been amply brought out. So in my view, just going on to say that car X is better than car Y because it emulates Usain Bolt and Car Y is inferior to Car X because it is like Sammy Wanjiru.
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Old 4th August 2009, 14:05   #854
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Lot of people keep harping that Punto has poor performance so let's see how the car performs in comparision to other European cars (so that build quality and weight differences are evened out) with similar engines and hp.

Punto 1190kgs. 63.02bhp/tonne. 0-100 17.84s 20-80 12.57s 40-100 15.22s.
Fiesta 1140kgs. 59.64bhp/tonne. 0-100 17.13s. 20-80 12.52s 40-100 16.37s.
Logan 1140kgs. 57.00bhp/tonne. 0-100 17.15s. 20-80 12.61s 40-100 16.87s.

The last time I checked no one said the Fiesta is sluggish and that overtaking is a pain on the higways. Ditto for the Logan.

Punto almost as good as Fiesta in 20-80 and far better in 40-100 yet Punto is sluggish and Fiesta is sprightly.

Punto is better then Logan in 20-80 and smokes it in 40-100 yet Punto is sluggish.

The difference in 0-100kmph seems a little huge. Can a 50kgs lighter car actually be that much faster? Fiesta does it in 17.13 while Punto does it in 17.84.

Fiesta top end diesel is over 9 Lakhs with lesser features while Punto is 7.xx.

Logan is 6.xx for top end diesel?

Last edited by amit : 4th August 2009 at 14:08.
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Old 4th August 2009, 14:20   #855
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The real question is not whether car A is 0.5 seconds faster than car B.
The real question is that "Is half a second difference" in acc and roll on times of any consequence worthy of discussion?
Unless you are buying your car specifically for drag races(in which case non of these three are the right candidates), the questions to be asked are.
Is the car drivable, comfortable, ergonomic and reliable? What are the periodic maintenance costs? How good is the safety, whats the ride quality.
Instead of real questions, people get totally hung up on race car timings and handling.
Trust me, even in a boat like the Safari or MUV like Innova etc., you will reach the limit of your co passengers patience much before you reach the limit of the vehicle.
A better handling car will help if you are participating in a track challenge, but as I can safely say that none of us will buy a punto diesel for rallying or track events, such mundane things like 0-100 etc., are totally irrelevant.
So unless the punto had a 50BHP engine and took 30 seconds to touch 100, 1-2 seconds here there will not make a difference.
And I am pretty sure, given a car capable of 12 second 0-100 time, most of us will take 14-15 seconds for the said sprint.

So 0-100 in 14 or 16 seconds is totally irrelevant, and what is more relevant is stuff like :
I drive on highway at 90-100 continuously, will the engine boom give me headache?
I drive on hills often, will I keep burning clutch on uphill hairpins due to lack of low end torque?
Will the car lose alignment every time I hit one of the billion potholes in my neighbourhood?

So " Can a 50kgs lighter car actually be that much faster" does not matter. Even if its 1 second faster, most of you will not feel it and won't be able to meet the "expert timings"

So those who think Punto/Logan etc., are sluggish, are right in their own way. A budget diesel hatch is not for them. The verna or getz crdi is the right choice Or a 100bhp petrol car.

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