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Old 6th August 2009, 14:47   #901
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post


BTW, can we come to the Topic on GP TD from Petes box which can be discussed on another Petes thread or in a new thread?
Requesting mods to make another thread with these discussions as its quiet important for current punto owners and to be punto owners(like me).
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Old 6th August 2009, 14:48   #902
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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post

yes the european linea will be tested in similar pattern . there if something goes wrong, the tuning box company if found out that the problem is due to box, they will be sued big time. so no one company will go ahead with improper testing. the skodas and VW tdi family engines are the most preferred cars for chip tuning in the europe.
then the CR engines doing duty in the european cars.
What is a CR engine - Common rail injection for diesel?

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
if fiat had released the linea with same european tuning, then i wouldnt have any doubts on the boxes. but frankly speaking if the parent company is itself not sure of releasing the original tuning?? and they detuned it, will the addition of a box tuned for the original tuning be a safe choice??
You seem to be knowledgeable, so you should be able to answer that question. What do you mean by not sure of releasing the original tuning? It may have been done only to comply to emission norms(E4), if not anything else. Were you suggesting that they compromised on Engine(material quality), that it could not be reliable in the original state of tune? If you have insider info, please let the cat out of the bag, instead of saying - I know it all, but I will not say for xxxx reasons.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
do the math for yourselfs and besides i dont think there can be any marvelous increase in power using the boxes for the 1.3mjd using VGT its kind of maxed out already. ( may be thats why fiat india played it safe knowing well that indian conditions will be very harsh on the injection system or the whole engine as such!)
Agree there, one has to see the cost vs power increase and decide. As you said, added low end grunt may be the ticket for some. I have pitted my normal Swift DdiS against a Pete'd Swift and the difference was very very evident. For people who feel the MJD is underpowered in the Punto/Linea, the box makes sense.

I request you to start a thread on crdi engines and working of the box/remaps etc, you seem to be working in this field.
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Old 6th August 2009, 14:50   #903
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
After reading this, I can't help wondering whether all the gyaan that we read a few posts earlier were all naught.
Seems like you like the "marketing talk" quite a bit

I find it even more interesting for ppl to choose a car that they think doens't have the power that "they want" and then add "extra stuff" to get the required surge (in power). For normal driving that is, not for racing and stuff.

No offence meant to anyone who have made their choices though.

Last edited by pmbabu : 6th August 2009 at 14:52.
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Old 6th August 2009, 15:00   #904
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Originally Posted by pmbabu View Post
Seems like you like the "marketing talk" quite a bit
You seem to have missed the next line in my post.
Quote:
Or, is it Pete who is lying here?
Please resist the urge to hit that "reply" button before reading the post fully.
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Old 6th August 2009, 15:47   #905
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Those people find i20 CRDI expensive at 1lakh more.
So instead they can get that same power boost for just 30k more by opting for GP+petes.
Nothing amusing about it.

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Originally Posted by pmbabu View Post
I find it even more interesting for ppl to choose a car that they think doens't have the power that "they want" and then add "extra stuff" to get the required surge (in power). For normal driving that is, not for racing and stuff.

No offence meant to anyone who have made their choices though.
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Old 6th August 2009, 16:30   #906
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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
Those people find i20 CRDI expensive at 1lakh more.
So instead they can get that same power boost for just 30k more by opting for GP+petes.
Nothing amusing about it.
I won't be surprised if GP with Petes isn't able to catch up with a stock i20 CRDi.
i20 CRDi is fast and if u compare it with Punto (stock) it feels super fast.
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Old 6th August 2009, 16:43   #907
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@kuttapan.

there is nothing like i cant say. i worked for all these stuff. in the very middle of it. but now its in the past. i have left the industry as such. but yes my friends read batch mates are still working in the industry and the latest news i get from them.

i am not good at starting threads and all. if possible open up a thread for queries like this. i will contribute what all i can.

to answer your question on the detuning of the line or the tuning of punto i first need to know. whether the engine is the same. material quality and also the injection components. high pressure and low pressure side components and sensors.

my guess or argument is that unless these engines are imported, there is no sure way of saying in concrete.

most probably, to meet E4 emissions and since engine is built to a cost. , the material quality would have been just india specific. if it was same or as good as European type. then they would have just used the same engines built from inda in the european ones. if its built here, its built so as to increase the localisation. hence the same quality material or more importantly the TOLERANCE of the injection components wont be the same. for exampe the 1.3 and 1.6 in europe will be using the same Common rail ( accumulator in our terms). but that need not be necessary here in india since for the 1.3 unit can do with another rail unit which is less costlier than the ones in the cars abroad. the same can go for the fuel injection pump too. even the pressure control valves can be used which is onlt suited for 1.3 all this leads to lesser cost.

and keeping in mind that quality of fuel is not the same here i india, they would have though of detuning it to 86ps. but then for this limitation, they can change components A-Z to price the car competetively. even use more or less same componenets between punto and linea also.

in most probability the turbo wont be tuned as the orignal set up since the original VGTturbo would have never been suited for the indian conditions. so they would have played it safe and limited the turbo opening.

the main thing is the injection system its bloody costly. i cant say anyhting for sure unless someone can give me the model number of the rail used on the indian one and the european one.

its a tricky situation. whereas the hyundai guys have no choice but to release everything as it is. their engines are all imported from korea. they use the same injection system and engine material all over the globe. in case of diesels. hence they dont detune their diesel engines. simpe.

fiat has definitely not detuned it just for meeting E4[ if that was really the case?? why did they tune the punto for 76ps/197nm for getting E4??] they went for cost saving by using more or less the same components from the punto or 1.3mjd engines already built in inida. to keep a low cost.
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Old 6th August 2009, 17:49   #908
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
You seem to have missed the next line in my post.


Please resist the urge to hit that "reply" button before reading the post fully.
Sir, that was a light hearted comment. I intentionally did not include the full post since it used the word "lying" which is unparliamentary.
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Old 6th August 2009, 17:58   #909
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I'll take this opportunity to summarise the last 3-4 pages (each page could accomodate only 4-6 posts !!)
  • Petes box is hazardous in India as its not tested in India but abroad/ Europe. All t-bhpians who has fitted petes are requested to pull it out (many more reasons are explained in last 3-4 pages in details).
  • Petes box is considered to be used by those whose car "lacks" power or by those who choose the car that they think doens't have the power that "they want" and then add "extra stuff" to get the required power for normal driving that is, not for racing and stuff.
    Those who've still fitted it in other powered cars must be considered racing types & not enthusiasts
  • Engines manufactured in India are bad in quality for the materials used to build it. Today, I'll call all my relatives, colleagues, neighbours & advise them to throw away their cars with such engines & will advise them to buy only Hyundai cars.
  • Then I'll advise all of them to import fuel & use only that imported fuel in their new Hyundai cars since Hyundai engines are not detuned & Indian fuel is not that good to use in engines which are not detuned
  • Guys-Need your help though. Pls let me know all cars (I guess other MFRs also detune their cars) where engines are detuned so that when I call my near & dear ones, I know exactly what they should be aprised of

Last edited by VahanPujari : 6th August 2009 at 18:05.
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Old 6th August 2009, 18:45   #910
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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post

i am not good at starting threads and all. if possible open up a thread for queries like this. i will contribute what all i can.

to answer your question on the detuning of the line or the tuning of punto i first need to know. whether the engine is the same. material quality and also the injection components. high pressure and low pressure side components and sensors.

my guess or argument is that unless these engines are imported, there is no sure way of saying in concrete.

most probably, to meet E4 emissions and since engine is built to a cost. , the material quality would have been just india specific. if it was same or as good as European type. then they would have just used the same engines built from inda in the european ones. if its built here, its built so as to increase the localisation. hence the same quality material or more importantly the TOLERANCE of the injection components wont be the same. for exampe the 1.3 and 1.6 in europe will be using the same Common rail ( accumulator in our terms). but that need not be necessary here in india since for the 1.3 unit can do with another rail unit which is less costlier than the ones in the cars abroad. the same can go for the fuel injection pump too. even the pressure control valves can be used which is onlt suited for 1.3 all this leads to lesser cost.

and keeping in mind that quality of fuel is not the same here i india, they would have though of detuning it to 86ps. but then for this limitation, they can change components A-Z to price the car competetively. even use more or less same componenets between punto and linea also.

in most probability the turbo wont be tuned as the orignal set up since the original VGTturbo would have never been suited for the indian conditions. so they would have played it safe and limited the turbo opening.

the main thing is the injection system its bloody costly. i cant say anyhting for sure unless someone can give me the model number of the rail used on the indian one and the european one.

its a tricky situation. whereas the hyundai guys have no choice but to release everything as it is. their engines are all imported from korea. they use the same injection system and engine material all over the globe. in case of diesels. hence they dont detune their diesel engines. simpe.

fiat has definitely not detuned it just for meeting E4[ if that was really the case?? why did they tune the punto for 76ps/197nm for getting E4??] they went for cost saving by using more or less the same components from the punto or 1.3mjd engines already built in inida. to keep a low cost.
Look at the phrases in bold. All assumptions. "Most probably", "my guess", "they would have". Don't you have anything concrete to say? I think you should desist from spreading misinformation here on the guise making guesses.
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:05   #911
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Sir, that was a light hearted comment.
ok. so that post #903 was light hearted comment & not to be read /(seriously).
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:08   #912
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@^

if my assumptions are not there then why did Fiat detune??

please do explain why they did it? maybe because they dont want indians to have more power?

and by the way. i do have concrete info but am not in a position to divulge such info out. i do follow certain job ethics.

ever heard of reading between the lines. do that and things should be clear??

box is a gamble. even the mail from the dealer says its the same box for 1.3mjd engines and a 2 litr and 2.2 liter scorpio also.

great so just buy a swift box and you can use it for the scorpio and captiva also.

all others who release diffeent boxes for different engines are fools??

nan enni onnum midunille. maounam! allenkil pani aakum.

transalation.
i wont talk anymore. silence! otherwise i will be in trouble

Last edited by Thomas8700 : 6th August 2009 at 19:10.
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Old 6th August 2009, 20:22   #913
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Pls. delete this post.

Last edited by pmbabu : 6th August 2009 at 20:33.
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Old 6th August 2009, 20:53   #914
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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post


most probably, to meet E4 emissions and since engine is built to a cost. , the material quality would have been just india specific. if it was same or as good as European type. then they would have just used the same engines built from inda in the european ones. if its built here, its built so as to increase the localisation. hence the same quality material or more importantly the TOLERANCE of the injection components wont be the same. for exampe the 1.3 and 1.6 in europe will be using the same Common rail ( accumulator in our terms). but that need not be necessary here in india since for the 1.3 unit can do with another rail unit which is less costlier than the ones in the cars abroad. the same can go for the fuel injection pump too. even the pressure control valves can be used which is onlt suited for 1.3 all this leads to lesser cost.

Now, unless you have concrete information on this, there is no point guessing. I do not think anyone of here is a position to say for sure that the common rail used by Fiat in India is inferior or even altered from the one being used in European versions. Changing the material quality, I do not think Fiat would have sunk that much money in R&D to just make an India specific engine when they are not sure about sales volumes here. So commercially, it does not make sense for Fiat to alter materials without going in for thorough R&D regarding viability of using different materials in the most integral part of a car.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post


its a tricky situation. whereas the hyundai guys have no choice but to release everything as it is. their engines are all imported from korea. they use the same injection system and engine material all over the globe. in case of diesels. hence they dont detune their diesel engines. simpe.
I think statement is factually incorrect as kappa engine is being manufactured at Engine & Transmission plant at Sriperumbudur.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post

fiat has definitely not detuned it just for meeting E4[ if that was really the case?? why did they tune the punto for 76ps/197nm for getting E4??] they went for cost saving by using more or less the same components from the punto or 1.3mjd engines already built in inida. to keep a low cost.
There are two aspects here. On one hand, we have a Pete's for swift that is expected to work wonders even though the test conditions are not known. On the other hand, the same box (which is claimed to be usable for Punto by Pete) is a no go because test conditions are unknown. Can we deducehere that Maruti has done no cost cuttings and are using the same material in the MJD as the Europeans?

Now, Thomas, I am not doubting the way you are taking a critical look at what Pete's has to offer. Your earlier posts have been informative, and one can read between lines to see what you are saying. However, due to lack of any concrete facts, your suggestions are not conclusive to a guy who might want to go in for Pete's. I respect your business ethics and agree that you do not have to divulge trade secrets, but then, if possible, please provide your insights in unbiased and fact based manner. Thanks.
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Old 6th August 2009, 21:35   #915
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its a tricky situation. whereas the hyundai guys have no choice but to release everything as it is. their engines are all imported from korea. they use the same injection system and engine material all over the globe. in case of diesels. hence they dont detune their diesel engines. simpe.
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I think statement is factually incorrect as kappa engine is being manufactured at Engine & Transmission plant at Sriperumbudur.
Only diesel engines are imported.
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