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Old 26th November 2009, 21:00   #421
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sad to heard about the starter motor and the horn. dont doubt the testing. they have tested vista and manza for 13 lacs odd kms on all terrains.

what i can speculate is its all due to hurry and pressure on the auto component suppliers as the bookings are heavy and production is full fledge overloaded.
there are all sorts of shortages and there are thousands of cars strangled in the plant. some dont have combi switches some dont have other parts.
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Old 26th November 2009, 21:20   #422
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Awesome review, most importantly it keeps the person driving the car in perceptive than the car itself. Being a Tata owner for some time ( have a Indica for some time now- 5yrs ) I was waiting for Manza's release.
TML has come a long way. Its refinement cycle has reduced a lot. I can remember the first Indica's that rolled out of Pimpri Plant. it took them 12~18 months of refimements to get the Indica in a better shape. TML has come a long way indeed.

But I in my opinion this cycle is present in all the New Product launches of any Automotive manufactures.

I think its best to get hold of a MANZA 8~10 months after its launch. when all the niggles are sorted out.

TML has a hell of product in there hands. I wish them all the luck.
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Old 27th November 2009, 10:48   #423
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Rightly said Indiastorms, I just hope that Tata sorts out these niggles ASAP or they will end up losing potential customers. They need to cash in on the hype and attention Manza has captured before the customers get diverted to Dezire. They have an excellent chance to hammer the competition.
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:29   #424
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Is the saphire petrol engine BSIV Compliant.
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:56   #425
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Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
Is the saphire petrol engine BSIV Compliant.
Yes. Fiat intends to revise Palio with 1.2 and 1.4 FIRE engines (since these are BS4 compliant). MJD is already BS4 compliant.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:05   #426
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Does anyone have the interior dimensions of the Manza? Would appreciate it if you could put it up here? Thanks!
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:29   #427
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Be in no doubt, enough testing has been done. Tata spent a lot of money in testing the Manza (my friend/acquaintance who had worked with Hyundai before jumping ship to Tata says that the Manza has undergone really rigorous tests). Not a very objective/quantitative statement, but he has been in the automobile industry for close to 15 years and spent close to 4.5 years at Hyundai and I trust him.

There is hardly any reason to start rumour mongering by raising questions about testing. Both the problems listed are really not engineering problems and all manufacturers have some vendor related issues. Not a big deal.

I say chaps --- let's not jump the gun.

@ Amartya - read the sales trend craefully. Skoda Fabia was a wonderful car, and still lost the race. Less due money but more due poor product quality.

Although the product would have passed full tests, but there is something called defect tolerance and defect injection rate once product goes on production line. And this is where things need to be controlled.
Things dont end just by making prototypes bug free.
The true success is taking the same quality to every product piece manufactured.

You dont expect people to spend lakhs of rupees, get their moods spoilt and listen "its not engineering defect".

Same thing has happened and caught the opinion for Fiat punto too. There have been many incidents and customer complaints reported on quailty, finish, malfunctioning etc.

Some of the opinionators in this thread are already cautious and deciding to buy this product once it stabilizes. And this is the underlying message.
Can we trust the quality management of Tata production line and buy the product on the first day, or we rather tend to be conservative.

Toyota and to a large extens Maruti-Suzuki have a very less product defect rate.
Infact Toyota's quality control model in its abstraction is adapted by many different industry.

While there is no doubt that niggle free Maza is the best VFM as of today, its all about the caution which one needs to exercise before buying a 6 lakh+ product and still being ready for "minor niggles"...

Last edited by rove_drives : 27th November 2009 at 14:31.
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Old 27th November 2009, 23:33   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rove_drives View Post
@ Amartya - read the sales trend craefully. Skoda Fabia was a wonderful car, and still lost the race. Less due money but more due poor product quality.

Although the product would have passed full tests, but there is something called defect tolerance and defect injection rate once product goes on production line. And this is where things need to be controlled.
Things dont end just by making prototypes bug free.
The true success is taking the same quality to every product piece manufactured.
...
I agree with you on the second point and it is a point well made. Appreciate it.

Let me reiterate that I got the point you were trying to make and I agree completely, however the example was probably a little off the mark. The Fabia 1.4 Petrol had serious engineering issues and the 1.4 Pumpe Duse Diesel too has been known to be a source of engineering related niggles.

Anyway, let's hope the Manza doesn't have too many production issues.
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Old 28th November 2009, 13:37   #429
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The problem Indian automakers have is they do not pay enough attention in terms of quality of people working in Quality Department (QD).

The QD, as per the management, has more a mandatory job that just requires to make sure that every part comes as per the design and the engineers do not need to understand how the part actually functions

Whereas generally japaneese automakers have poeple who understand how the product works in their QD, they infact have people working in design and R&D moving to take positions in Quality dept. (atleast the managerial positions)

So our QD rather tries to solve the problem once they start coming than predicting that they will come unlike their jap counterparts. In this aspect the Japs may be even better than europeans
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Old 28th November 2009, 17:38   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rite2shree View Post
"A PROBLEM"
GUYS PLEASE HELP ME OUT

My Aura ABS (Satin gold, Petrol) had arrived on Monday and on Tuesday the PDI was done. So Wednesday morning my Dad accompanied me to the showroom for a full checkup (drive etc.)then pay the full amount before it goes for registration (temp.).DID NOT START. The salesman promised to look into the issue and said he will keep it ready by 5 pm.
After 4 hours I got a call from my friendly salesman saying that there was some problem with the STARTER MOTOR and that he had informed the dealer (friend) who in turn had contacted Tata motors.
It seems like the initial euphoria is dying down and (maybe) people are realising that its the same old Indica/ Indigo story playing out yet another time. Tata is a 200 year old traditional, old fashioned company and (i think) doesn't have the lean, mean fighting machine attitude of a Jap company. (I think again) that maybe they're just not arm twisting the vendors enough. The guy who made rite2shree's starter motor should be shitting bricks by now (I hope for Tata's sake he is, man) I am a big Tata fan and it will ache my heart to see lesser endowed cars by upstart companies steal a march on the manza.
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Old 28th November 2009, 18:26   #431
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Excellent review GTO.

CNBC hs the same views and see the way Shirish is pleasantly surprised on this video Video - First look: The stylish new Tata-Indigo-Manza
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Old 28th November 2009, 19:17   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windiesel View Post
It seems like the initial euphoria is dying down and (maybe) people are realising that its the same old Indica/ Indigo story playing out yet another time. Tata is a 200 year old traditional, old fashioned company and (i think) doesn't have the lean, mean fighting machine attitude of a Jap company. (I think again) that maybe they're just not arm twisting the vendors enough. The guy who made rite2shree's starter motor should be shitting bricks by now (I hope for Tata's sake he is, man) I am a big Tata fan and it will ache my heart to see lesser endowed cars by upstart companies steal a march on the manza.
I have a different view. When I went to buy Manza, was very much aware of poor A.S.S and went prepared for that.
The initial hiccup after commiting for delivery within 3 weeks was proving TATA to have gone back to its old self. Then switched dealer & went to autofin . Have already faced two issues in two weeks since I got the vehicle. But both were sorted out by autofin very well(see #66 and #69 in
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...finally-5.html (My Manza is here...finally..)).
Meanwhile visited concorde to cancel my booking there. After talking to GM there over phone, he instructed his rep. there to refund without any deductions. They have promised to get the cheque ready in 48 hours.
So far so good.

Vijay
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Old 28th November 2009, 19:26   #433
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BTW, today morning I saw a quadrajet Satin gold standing few houses away in my area an another monarch red in the city in afternoon. Looks like it is catching imagination well.
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Old 28th November 2009, 20:04   #434
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Tata's reputation is being taken for a toss due to inconsistent quality of parts supplied by auto component suppliers. I feel better choice of suppliers even if at a cost may solve the crisis.
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Old 29th November 2009, 09:11   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
Excellent review GTO.

CNBC hs the same views and see the way Shirish is pleasantly surprised on this video Video - First look: The stylish new Tata-Indigo-Manza
Good to see the video. See how CNBC is appreciating the car and its handling, Shirish even gives it a sitting ovation at the end! and on the other hand ACI calls it dull to drive! How? Why? can they write just what they feel like and get away? I remember very clearly that once they rated Bajaj Wave Scooter over the Activa, and the Wave got hammered so badly that Bajaj stopped making them within a year of its launch. Maybe ACI needs to hire some neutral consultants. GTO looking for a job?
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