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Old 30th October 2009, 11:35   #31
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Holy cow! I go away for a couple of minutes and this thread is already flooded with replies. Thanks for the "5 star thread rating", guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
It is literally a review me and many more presepective buyer were looking at.
I sure hope it is helpful to prospective buyers such as yourself. However, do return the favour by frequently updating the ownership report of your car (if you eventually buy the Manza).

Quote:
But for sure Tata Maza is something to look into seriously rather than striking it off the list just for the sake TATA attached with it.
This car is the most un-Tata Tata I have driven till date. Give you a small example : When I was driving to Tata Motors, one thought that ran through my head was how little I would have for the "smaller and significant things" section. This car blew me away! So many small touches & impressive bits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Hope this car outsells the bizarre dzire.
Way to go Tata!
Tata only needs to prove that it can manufacture consistent quality / reliable cars. That should be enough.

This car has the potential to change our opinion, entirely and positively, of Tata cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Loved the tacho redlining part.
Really neat feature, ain't it?

Quote:
And the car I saw at the showroom had already torn rubber flap for audio input. Misuse?
Told ya its a 2 rupee part!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Lovely car - i don't like the front looks - but to me its better overall than a few others in the segment - like Dezire and Verna.
While this car isn't exactly a looker, she is definitely better proportioned than the Dzire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
However has you mentioned, Tata really has to get the service act right. As an owner of 2 Tatas( not to mention the millions owned since 1999 in the family), I am painfully aware of what their service network can put you through.
Priority no.1 if you ask me.

Quote:
165mm GC - I think we may be reading too much into this. From recent times, I have observed that cars have started coming in with a plastic "liner sort of thing" below front bumper.
For the record, we did NOT scrape the under belly anywhere over our test run. And that included a particularly rough patch on the Lonavla backroads where I absolutely kept the throttle nailed.

Quote:
Ride quality at rear - Since you already on the fully independent suspension Indigo, how does this compare. Has going semi independent taken anything away?
The Manza's ride quality is equally impressive. More importantly, the handling is way (read = substantially) better than my Indigo. The only area of improvement is over uneven highway patches where the rear gets bouncy at speed. A more moderate foot on the accelerator solves this.

Quote:
Did you have wheel covers flying of if you hit hard in a pothole(typical indian highway scenario where you drive fast, and hit a solitary pothole)
Nope.

Quote:
Did you get a chance in stop and go traffic, and how is the ankle fatigue(note this is not due to clutch hardness or softness, but clutch angle)5
Nope.

Quote:
5. did you see any warnings about idling turbo for 30 seconds anywhere?
Even though there wasn't a warning anywhere, I'd still idle for 60 seconds before / after driving, just to preserve my turbo.

Quote:
Did you get to ask the Tata engineers that why did they not use the Indigo XL 100BHP 1.4L petrol engine in the manza instead of that 89bhp engine?
Fuel efficiency. Clearly, their benchmark for FE was the Dzire. That's why the taller gear ratios & engine retuning. FE is VERY important to the target segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
Thanks for the review GTO. Awesome as usual. I don't know if someone else has mentioned this or not other than you: Gawd the the wheels are damn puny. I mean its screaming for 17 inchers to the point of looking disproportionate to the boot.
Yup, there is a reason why Tata has made 15 inchers standard across all variants (including the base).
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:35   #32
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I think what he meant was since Manza is built on the same Vista platform, it's 23 lakhs km testing adds to the 25 lakh kms already tested in Vista.

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Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
Great review GTO.

Is the below a typo ?
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:42   #33
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brilliant review GTO.

Planning to replace my Wagon-R next year with a family sedan for use both in the city and highway. Was waiting for your review. Will check out ownership reports in the next few months before i decide to buy.

All in all, a great improvement from Tata
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:47   #34
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Looks like Tata have nano'd the C segment. However the styling is too plumpy for my liking rather "aunty rover" of the old. Look at the Honda City, it is actually quite a plumper like its predecessor but well styled
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:47   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
....What i cant fathom is that why do manufacturers in India not provide something as useful (and inexpensive) as a driver armrest......
On a car that says its USP is "space" i also felt that there could have been more cubby holes around, especially since it was catering to the owner who would have a cellphone + ipod lying around in the car all the time.

Using the space behind the handbrake for a rear armrest + container + rear blower housing would solve all these problems.

Another thing i mentioned to the people at Tata - taking it one step further, have the front passenger seat flip forwards and act as a leg rest for the left-rear passenger. This will go well with the relaxed 28* seat-back angle too and take rear seat comfort to a whole new level for virtually no additional cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
3) What is servo assisted vents ?
They are electric-switch controlled, and not a heavy mechanical control to switch between upper and lower vents or inside(recycle) and outside air - if I'm not mistaken. (You seem to have got this term from elsewhere as its not in this review)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
4) Super light accelerator pedal not good. On bad roads there are chances that the pedal will be slightly pressed. Similar issue with Baleno too.
It is light, but not so much as to be a bad thing.
Add to that the typical engine response of a deisel and you will not notice the problem you have highlighted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
Is the below a typo ?
No typo. The Vista was tested for 2500000km and then the Manza was created and tested for an additional 2300000km.

cya
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Last edited by Rehaan : 30th October 2009 at 11:51.
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:47   #36
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Excellent review, GTO.

The Manza looks much better from the side profile, from your pics.

Do you expect the Manza, combined with IndigoCS if not alone, to topple the Dzire from the top spot?
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:47   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
What i cant fathom is that why do manufacturers in India not provide something as useful (and inexpensive) as a driver armrest- this is a real boon on long drives.
Tell 'em, will ya! I'd love to have a center (adjustable) armrest. Cheap and convenient. It's all the more important as you don't get high quality / well-fitted options in the after-market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay_J View Post
If it only proves reliable, I dont see a point in buying even higher segment sedan unless worried about the snob value.
The day that the Manza gets more power, and has proved its long-term reliability, cars from a segment above ought to be worried. Even petrols. The space is comparable to cars costing 14 lakh rupees.

Quote:
One question though... Do we see this thingy toppling dezire from sales chart ? I feel that MSIL legend will still live on as a leader(Dont know why though).
Tough call. The Vista hasn't dented the Swift as much as Tata would have liked. Overall, this car's ride, space and comfort are way better than the Dzire. The Manza even looks better and has amazing features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuraliR View Post
Does the independent suspension of the earlier Indigo provide better ride quality?
Answered in my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
The steering wheel surprisingly looks good to be a TATA .
It even weighs in sufficiently well and is nice to use (relative to C segment competitors). However, don't expect any enthusiast-oriented feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
What is servo assisted vents ?
The Manza has servo-assisted vents to control the air-con flow.

Quote:
Why the temperature guage is above half mark. IIRC, most modern cars have their temp gauge in the middle mark or slightly above that. In this case its more than slightly above hot mark.
I don't think the 1/2 mark matters as much as the actual temperature. What's more important is the exact temp that the 1/2 mark indicates. Within a couple of minutes of driving, the temp settles itself to 2 mm above the 1/2 mark and stays there throughout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Incidentally, I had a look at the Manza yesterday. This car spells as "S P A C E". The interior & exteriors are way ahead compared to the two older siblings we had.
The Manza's USP (according to Tata engineers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippy View Post
The brakes are awesome for a Tata. Very efficient.
The first thing that left us surprised on Tata's test track!

Quote:
I hated the previous one because it obstructed vision of the road ahead. Height adjustable driver's seat a big boon for short drivers.
Good point. The ergonomics are thoroughly improved in this car.

Quote:
That is one area where Maruti has an upper hand. Reliability.
Well said. This is by far the single most important factor that Tata has to get right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
But you checked our patience this time :-)
*sheepish expression* surely was worth the wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
Great review GTO.

Is the below a typo ?
Nope, not a type. A Tata senior engineer communicated the same to me. 2.3 million kms of testing on this car.

Last edited by GTO : 30th October 2009 at 12:35.
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:47   #38
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Critics said

1) Its noisy and boomy inside
2) Box shaped boot

The review proves it not noisy but good. Now, about being box shaped,well, every seen the old Estilo, Versa, Logan and the Sumo ? All these sold a lot! Sumo made records even IIRC.

What next critics !

GTO; did you try lifting the bonnet?

Last edited by jkdas : 30th October 2009 at 11:50.
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:53   #39
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Hi Gurus & all

My second Post. I was about to book the DZIRE petrol ZXI on 8th Oct but suddenly saw the press release of Tata Manza's launch on 14th Oct & that led me hooked to this site. In between 8th-14th I tried to cover almost all the threads specially Manza thread.
And somehow I got convinced that Manza is the car I was looking for & a BIG thanks to Maruti for making DZIRE's waiting period 4 months, or else I would had missed this bus. The dealer was quite surprised to get my call on 15th Morning inquiring about Manza. They said, its expected only by 22nd of Oct. But somehow on 16th I could see the car in their showroom's parking lot. Being Diwali, they were concentrating more for the delivery schedules of Lineas & Indicas etc. I had to see that car in dusty parking lot. By that time I had made my 90% of mind to book it.
By 20th salesman said they have received 6 booking without TD mainly for Aura ABS. My wife said if others can dare this, why can't you? Still I was not convinced 100% to book the car without TD. Then came 21st, Maruti Dealer again called up & offered a "TD" at my home for DIZRE.
I could sense Maruti's call, as before this, I had to chase them & now they were! I decided to TD a Linea & book the MANZA . Excuse Me!

On 22nd finally I went to book the car with cheque book in hand & WOW... On the way I got a call from Dealer that I can TD MANZA, but a short TD only . Atlast even GOD also helped me. I was the very first customer to TD in that dealer's Showroom. *Shallow Pride* TD was quite satisfactory & have nothing much to add as quite a few Sr. members have commented on that.
One thing I noted, the TD's car Odometer cable was disconnected!! They said, its not the ACTUAL Demo car & they may allot it to some one .

Anyway I booked it & handed over the post dated cheque to them & came back satisfied home. And YES! Cheque was dated for Sunday. Dealer showed me some booking forms. I asked what's the order number, which can be quoted to TATA Motors, they said, since their "system is down" orders have not been uploaded yet. (A boon for me, which is explained below)

Next Morning HDFC bank called me & offered 30% discount on Insurance. Dealer quote was around 22K & HDFC guys were ready to offer for 14K. I immediately called them up & explained this. The dealer was in litreal shock, belive me! Their expression was saying how dare a person can Bargain for Newly Launched Car!! I just insisted that I would manage my own Insurance or else I am going to place STOP Cheque Instruction, as it was dated for Sunday. Dealer's version was they have received any instructions on this - If a customer can manage own Insurance for newly launched car. I told Salesman clearly, either you match this pricing, or else I would go somewhere else. He went & spoke to his Boss, which I could see from distance, Boss was equally disgruntled, I could make out with facial expressions. Finally they said, they would revert by 6 PM on this after checking with their HO. I said no worry, its all fine with me, till you match this price for me or else I shall manage my Own. By 4 PM I get a call from the dealer that, their company policy doesn't allow customers to go for own Insurance for newly launched car, but "as a special case" they are ready to Match this insurance price for me!!! Voila..!!! I got what I wanted. Again he crossed checked, If I am satisfied or not with this deal & I said, I am happy! You can go ahead with the other formalities, like issuing me the "official" receipt of 50K. I ensured they changed the Order Booking Card with the new figure of 14200 under insurance against originally filled 22K.
If I would had given same day cheque, I wouldn't had been in a position to bargain. That's why I said boon previously!
Till now my experience with Dealer had been satisfactory as I got what all I asked for. Not sure about coming days

I shall like to thank all the Members of Team BHP, who have contributed in whatever way to this forum, becoz of this I could bargain on Newly Lauched Car, where normally nothing else is offered. I shall update once again, when I get a call for delivery.

Last edited by Technocrat : 30th October 2009 at 13:35. Reason: Only 2 smilies per post allowed, please read our bord rules. Thanks
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:59   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I sure hope it is helpful to prospective buyers such as yourself. However, do return the favour by frequently updating the ownership report of your car (if you eventually buy the Manza).

This car is the most un-Tata Tata I have driven till date. Give you a small example : When I was driving to Tata Motors, one thought that ran through my head was how little I would have for the "smaller and significant things" section. This car blew me away! So many small touches & impressive bits.
Sure, will definitely do that in case I would pick one !!

However, overall I do found small niggles which arent that important but if had taken care care it might had taken Manza to an upper level. (I ain't complaining but getting a bit Greedy )

a) Dead Pedal
b) Arm rest for driver and co-driver, may be like something like Safari would had been done.
c) Automatic HVAC
d) Rear AC Vent
d) Audio controls on Rear Arm rest
Expecting too much, huh ?? As I said, as a customer I AM GREEDY
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:01   #41
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thanks for the excellent review, GTO! i had one question - in the older Indicas and Indigos the position of the accelerator, brake, clutch was rather high and i used to find it uncomfortable also leading to fatigue over longer drives. Has this been taken care of in the Manza?
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:01   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Nope, not a type. A Tata senior engineer communicated the same to me. 2.3 million lakh kms of testing on this car.
2.3 Million Kms I suppose , the lakh part you must have overlooked.

Fantastic review as usual and you have built quite a reputation here and am sure many people who visit your reviews are bound to be influenced.
Your review is the best the Tata Manza can ask for without being biased.

I like the balance and objectivity of the review and being an Indigo owner yourself , you have been able to clearly differentiate the levels of improvement and the scope for improvement.

The soft feel of the dash and the doors are there in the Vista top end (not in the other variants of aqua and terra). The biege is still prone to dust and needs sustained care and cleaning.

So many points covered and I need to read the review again.. thanks once again.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:05   #43
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Hey excellent review guys! Tata has finally grown up and now i see it putting good competition to the likes of MUL. If they manage to keep the QC department consistent, i wouldnt be surprised if they overtake Dezire sales.

ps: The more i look at the car, the more resemblance i see with Type 1 camry in India

Last edited by Jaggu : 30th October 2009 at 12:07.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:11   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I have a few queries
1. 165mm GC - I think we may be reading too much into this. From recent times, I have observed that cars have started coming in with a plastic "liner sort of thing" below front bumper. I first noticed this on the getz, and the cruze. In the west, this is to prevent the bumper from hitting kerb in parking lots. So its entire possible, that this is the lowest part, and usable gc is actually around 10mm more.
I'm not sure i agree with the plastic liner's sole purpose being to prevent hitting the curb -- however, i do agree that typically ground clearance (on paper) is brought down by one component (bottom of a strut or differential on RWD cars etc) - As we have previously discussed here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-measured.html (Optimum ground clearance of a Car? & how it is measured...)

Take a look at the underbody here - its fairly uniform, and i'm sure that compromising ground clearance is not the type of mistake Tata would make, given their experience. So, to re-enforce your point above - i don't think GC should be any cause for concern.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
...From all this and the other threads, the Manza stands out and will appeal to a class of its own. It might eat into Dzire and maybe Linea but I don't think it'll really threaten any one by that much.
I'll agree with you here - i too think the Linea will be less affected than the Dzire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
...Personally, I would have like the headlights a little smaller. I also find the styling a little amiss in continuity between the front & back. ....
True point. The styling is something that isn't very appealing. In the earlier thread (linked on pg1) check out the photoshop someone had done to make the front grill smaller. It did considerably improve the front looks.

At the moment the grill arches upwards, on an already round-ish front end, giving the front a very bubble-ish feel.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 30th October 2009 at 12:19.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:30   #45
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Thanks GTO for a great review.
One important factor which GTO mentioned is the lack of leg space between the clutch and the console to rest the left feet. You are forced to keep your feet in front of the clutch pedal and cannot easily stretch your left leg. This would strain the ankles during long drives. My shoes were getting struck in the gap beside the clutch when I had a look in the showroom. Yet to take a TD.
Would prefer a Petrol as my running would not be more than 750 km/pm.
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