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Old 30th November 2009, 20:48   #451
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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Checked out the Manza in flesh today after drooling for several weeks on this thread . Thanks GTO !

I will stick to the refinement, driving etc part alone. We took the Safire on a 6 Km round trip from Concorde Velachery at a pre-peak hour. There is a bit of intake noise as the revs build but once you shift up, I dare say the cabin is quiet...almost like a Civic...oops I said it .

Okay some fineprint for the above statement : Car running Bridgestone tyres, road smooth without blemishes , potholes etc.

We did not feel bogged down in traffic and could close in gaps without much effort so gearing seems alright for the city.

The avg FE indicator refused to budge beyond 10 Kmpl and the instantaneous FE was hovering around 11-12 kmpl. The car had around 1100 km on the ODO and if I remember all the meters were working.

The temperature indicator was showing 30 and 31 alternatively ,made me think if it was a looped display (like from the movie SPEED), but the clock was ticking okay.

What I did not like (I didnt like on the Vista as well) is that the steering wheel feels as if its thrusting its chest out (convex) - it could be just me imagining because of the steering wheel of the Civic is clearly concave. If anybody else felt the same let me know.



Some other observations from the showroom - the salesman kept referring to the grey noir as "grey nair"

In the time we were there in the showroom before the TD, about 15 minutes or so - 4 parties including us checked out the car, whereas for the others

Linea - 1
Punto - 0
Sumo Grande - no prizes for guessing ( If I were it, I would feel awkward being positioned next to the Punto and the Linea), it was clearly out of place in the showroom in that orange paint scheme.

Safari - 1
Vista - 2

Plus the entire showroom is overcrowded, I would suggest multilevel displays - Tata Manza, Safari and Linea (first floor) and the GP, Vista et al on the ground. Nobody bothered to check if we were interested in the GP or Linea. Sad.

Sorry for the long post. Out.
6 kms round trip Good. Hardly the TD vehicles are given for 2-3 kms max. You should be luckly enough to have driven the manza 6 kms. I think you would have found out many things precisely for having driven a good sum of kms.
Wrong comparison with Civic. Indeed the Manza is the best of the lot. The same being compared with the Civic is not disgestible.

Had you test driven the Diesel, you would have loved the turbo that spurts in at 2000 rpm. Even though the diesel hood isnt that peppy as of Dzire and swift. It manages and convinces you tear off the cheque if you are willing to book a manza. Any day the diesel scores over the petrol.
Unbeleivable man I had an opportunity to visit Sundaram motors, Bangalore to have alook at Cruze.I would surely say that the manza is even more spacious than cruze. Forgive me for the wrong comparison.Different segments compared.

Tata has got a golden duck in its hand. TML don't cut the golden duck with your old rusted knife called niggle problems and cheap A S S.
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Old 30th November 2009, 20:51   #452
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Well, i think "fun to drive" and "dull to drive" are incredibly subjective terms, unlike say, ride-quality or handling which are much more objective.

This might explain the different opinions floating around on this particular facet of the Manza.

cya
R
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Old 30th November 2009, 21:38   #453
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Well, i think "fun to drive" and "dull to drive" are incredibly subjective terms, unlike say, ride-quality or handling which are much more objective.

This might explain the different opinions floating around on this particular facet of the Manza.

cya
R
Yes perfectly said. Fun to drive and dull to drive is all from a individual perspective.A person who upgrades from basic hatch may find any car interesting than the one which he was driving.
Rightly said the ride quality and handling cannot be interchangeably used. Each of them have got their own meaning and are objective in nature.
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Old 1st December 2009, 10:35   #454
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Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
6 kms round trip Good. Hardly the TD vehicles are given for 2-3 kms max. You should be luckly enough to have driven the manza 6 kms. I think you would have found out many things precisely for having driven a good sum of kms.
Wrong comparison with Civic. Indeed the Manza is the best of the lot. The same being compared with the Civic is not disgestible.
See my garage. There is no point comparing the Manza with the Indica V2. The only other car with which I have spent time is the Civic. So I think I know what I am talking about.

Please read my previous post carefully,its not as if the entire car is being compared to the Civic. We specifically checked the cabin for ambient noise keeping all windows rolled up, aircon on and music system off.

On a good road,in 4th gear at about 50-60 km/hr the silence was starting to deafen us.

I was not interested in driving the diesel, I had already driven it in the Linea.
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Old 1st December 2009, 13:51   #455
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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
See my garage. There is no point comparing the Manza with the Indica V2. The only other car with which I have spent time is the Civic. So I think I know what I am talking about.

Please read my previous post carefully,its not as if the entire car is being compared to the Civic. We specifically checked the cabin for ambient noise keeping all windows rolled up, aircon on and music system off.

On a good road,in 4th gear at about 50-60 km/hr the silence was starting to deafen us.

I was not interested in driving the diesel, I had already driven it in the Linea.
Civic is equipped with refined ivtec petrol engine and Manza is with the Fiat's fire petrol (Saphire as called by Tata). How can you compared both. It really doesnt make any sense in comparing the most refined ivtec and saphire.
You said "We specifically checked the cabin for ambient noise keeping all windows rolled up, aircon on and music system off." The built quality and the door panel gaps are not found in the civic and as far as the manza is concerned there exists still some room for improvement.
Comparison is should be on the same platform/segment.
I understand since you have civic you moght have compared both fine. No
offence. Cheers

You said "I was not interested in driving the diesel, I had already driven it in the Linea" - Even though the same engine is working in the manza as well as linea, the performance need not be same. Each and every car will perform in accordance with the weight, handling, steering stability, ride, quality, suspension, gearing ratios etc.
I havent driven the Linea deisel but i have driven the dzire diesel. The dzire diesel is more peppier than the MAnza. Soon will TD linea and find out.
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Old 1st December 2009, 17:54   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indivic View Post
There is a bit of intake noise as the revs build
Hey, it's an Italian engine and is bound to make a nice sound

Quote:
In the time we were there in the showroom before the TD, about 15 minutes or so - 4 parties including us checked out the car, whereas for the others

Linea - 1
Punto - 0
Sumo Grande - no prizes for guessing ( If I were it, I would feel awkward being positioned next to the Punto and the Linea), it was clearly out of place in the showroom in that orange paint scheme.

Safari - 1
Vista - 2
Interesting observation. Only a Team-BHPian.....

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Originally Posted by windiesel View Post
To complement the Manza from a segment underneath, should'nt Tata be launching an Indigo CS with the non VGT national engine, already doing duty in the sluggishly selling vista?
Indigo CS = Cheap sedan = cheap engine. For the record, I own an Indigo with the same TDi engine and think its par for the job (and price).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
Tata has got a golden duck in its hand. TML don't cut the golden duck with your old rusted knife called niggle problems and cheap A S S.
You have a way with words, don't you! I could not have put it better myself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Well, i think "fun to drive" and "dull to drive" are incredibly subjective terms, unlike say, ride-quality or handling which are much more objective.
Well said. I'd add a point : No one (well, 99.99%) of the target segment cares about an enthusiastic drive. Key buying factors : trust in brand, fuel efficiency, space, comfort, trouble-free ownership. The Dzire covers points 1, 2 and 5, while the Manza 2, 3 and 4. Of course, people do trust the Tata brand, but they also expect niggles with Tatas cars.
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Old 1st December 2009, 19:41   #457
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Between a Dzire (DDIS) and Manza Quadrajet, which car is peppier and good on uphill drives??
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Old 2nd December 2009, 10:41   #458
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The Dzire is definitely peppier (and most probably quicker) than the Manza.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:54   #459
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Which of the two car would you suggest for self driving for 2.5k kms in the highway a month and 500 kms in city traffic. 90% of my drives i am alone in the car. Which car handles better at highway speeds??
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Old 2nd December 2009, 20:24   #460
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"No one (well, 99.99%) of the target segment cares about an enthusiastic drive. Key buying factors : trust in brand, fuel efficiency, space, comfort, trouble-free ownership. The Dzire covers points 1, 2 and 5, while the Manza 2, 3 and 4. Of course, people do trust the Tata brand, but they also expect niggles with Tatas cars."

Do you really think that 99.99% of the people buying cars dont bother about safety options in the car they are going to drive. Thats shocking and we need to get out priorities right.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 12:03   #461
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Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
Civic is equipped with refined ivtec petrol engine and Manza is with the Fiat's fire petrol (Saphire as called by Tata). How can you compared both. It really doesnt make any sense in comparing the most refined ivtec and saphire.
.
And why can't u compare both. It makes quite a bit of sense as he owns a honda and can compare it with any other car quite objectively. He was not comparing ivtec and saffire engines but rather the in-cabin noise and comfort of both cars. The mere fact that a honda civic owner is even thinking of comparing the manza with his 2 segments higher, more refined car is a compliment to it. "same platform" aren't both cars sedans?

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Originally Posted by drrajasaravanan View Post
Do you really think that 99.99% of the people buying cars dont bother about safety options in the car they are going to drive. Thats shocking and we need to get out priorities right.
Since when did "enthusiastic drive" equate to "safety features" . I think you are a little confused here. In fact i think what GTO was saying was that 99.9% prefer a "safe car" over a "Fun to drive" car. I think you need to give the posts a little more thought before getting .

Having said that , i would put the figure at a little less than 99.9% ( Judging by the the amount of people at TBHP) . As the age of the first time buyers are going down as compared to say 10 to 15 years back , the priorites are also changing.

Last edited by -NUT-case : 3rd December 2009 at 12:16.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 12:35   #462
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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
And why can't u compare both. It makes quite a bit of sense as he owns a honda and can compare it with any other car quite objectively. He was not comparing ivtec and saffire engines but rather the in-cabin noise and comfort of both cars. The mere fact that a honda civic owner is even thinking of comparing the manza with his 2 segments higher, more refined car is a compliment to it. "same platform" aren't both cars sedans?


Sir you are not getting it at all. What i said was how can you compare the refinement and built quality of both the cars. The cost of civic buys you 2 manza. Indeed both are the best cras. I am not pulling down Manza in any way.I don't own a civic means i should dis grade is it. Or if own one should i appreciate it. I am happy that manza is compared with segment ahead civic. And i have even said that since he owns a civic he has compared things and no offence. Please read the reply properly and quote the entire quote which i have said. Please don't partially quote and change the meaning of the discussion.

For your kind information the word "Same Platform" (the body built platform, the chassis i am talking about) has got a different meaning from what you have thought. Indeed Civic and Manza are sedans and surely not from the same platform.
Please understand

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th December 2009 at 16:05. Reason: quote fixed
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Old 3rd December 2009, 15:50   #463
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Hi all,

I went through the review but couldn't go through the rest of the thread (you can guess why!!??) and i have an observation and a question

Observation:
The rear ward swiveling ORVM's are not the first in Manza. They lifted it off the Linea and Punto.

Question:
I noticed that the clutch in Manza is cable operated!
Isn't this a step backward? Unless of course that cable actuates a hydraulic piston somewhere but i didn't find anything like that.

Your comments?
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Old 3rd December 2009, 16:27   #464
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A great professional style review GTO. Always look forward to your style of reporting, covered all aspects.

I had heard that the Manza is a wonderful car and have also seen TV shows and auto magazines go gaga over it. I wonder if it is just the jump from the Spartan to the well built area that everyone is going gaga over? I certainly hope not. There are times when there is not much expectance of refinement from a certain quarter but when that quarter surpasses expectations and everything is above what they had thought it could probably do, the gaga factor kicks in.

Having said that i think i kind of agree with everyone going bonkers over the Manza. No match for it in the price and space area. With the Fiat's (loved the term National Engine ) very capable 1.3 engine and gearbox it should be short or a dream to drive. I remember test driving the Indigo when it was introduced. The gearbox was something i hated. The shifts and everything about it. This new transplant should change all that.

I have been looking to replace my Versa with a car which had all the pros of the versa (yes there are many) and except the larger luggage carrying capacity, i feel the Manza has met it on all fronts. Soon there might be one standing in my driveway. With these qualities i feel its the most ideal daily to be driven in car in the city and a good car for the house hold duties.

Now when i go for a test drive, i will be looking at the car in another angle, having read what to expect and what not to. Thanks for such a comprehensive report GTO.


Quote:
ē The diesel and petrol variants, both, have the same revv meter. Itís a little odd to drive a diesel car with a revv counter that goes all the way to 8,000 rpms! Heck, thatís the max that my high-revving 7,100 rpm redlining OHC Vtec is marked till.
That is quite odd and i think Tata is too big a company to overlook this.

Love Dippy's shoes too!!
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Old 3rd December 2009, 20:40   #465
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Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
Sir you are not getting it at all. What i said was how can you compare the refinement and built quality of both the cars. The cost of civic buys you 2 manza. Indeed both are the best cras. I am not pulling down Manza in any way.I don't own a civic means i should dis grade is it. Or if own one should i appreciate it. I am happy that manza is compared with segment ahead civic. And i have even said that since he owns a civic he has compared things and no offence. Please read the reply properly and quote the entire quote which i have said. Please don't partially quote and change the meaning of the discussion.

For your kind information the word "Same Platform" (the body built platform, the chassis i am talking about) has got a different meaning from what you have thought. Indeed Civic and Manza are sedans and surely not from the same platform.
Please understand
Sir,
"The cost of civic buys you 2 manza. Indeed both are the best cras"
Yes, and that my friend is exactly the point . That TATA has been able to nearly match the interior space and comfort of cars nearly 2 segments higher.That being the case , you have to compare the two.

"• Unreal back seat comfort. Interior space comparable to two segments higher" - This is a direct quote from the first page of this thread ie GTO's review of MANZA

"Same platform"
According to you then one can only compare a vista and a manza or a swift and a dzire or a punto and linea as they are from the same platform . 2 cars from 2 different manufacturers cannot be from the same platform at all .

And this a direct quote from your post @ rki2007 " I would surely say that the manza is even more spacious than cruze. Forgive me for the wrong comparison.Different segments compared"

Wrongly or rightly you have indeed compred Manza with cruze and "indivic" did likewise with a civic thats all.

Anyways i dont wanna . So in the end all that matters is that Manza has interior space and comfort comparable to a Cruze or a civic for a lot less money, and that is for prospective buyers.

Last edited by -NUT-case : 3rd December 2009 at 20:51.
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