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Old 6th March 2010, 03:54   #316
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Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
Wot rot!



How many of these 4000 units/month are diesel? Anyway discussion for another thread methinks.
I would assume at least half is Diesel.

IMHO i20 CRDi is one of the best diesel cars in sub 10L segemnt. None of the new hatches can come close to i20 in terms of features and space (The only real European diesel hatch made and sold in India, hence the price is justified). I was expecting POLO to be close to i20, but VW decided to take a different approach.

I think it will be worth to compare the basic petrol models of i20 and POLO.
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Old 6th March 2010, 04:15   #317
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Personally, VW has gotten it wrong. Looks are a relative thing, so I have not much to say except that it looks adequately contemporary if a touch staid.

I know they want to price it competitively but for a person who is willing to spend 5.88 (Bombay price) for a top end variant of the Polo - would he or she balk at spending 6.05 for features like visors with lit mirrors, electric ORVMs, climate control, Aux-in and USB? I don't think it would be a problem.

VW did spend a lot of time and effort to understand the Indian road conditions and driving culture (or lack thereof) and features like a louder horn, the two-way bending ORVMs are a testament to that. But is anyone aware if they did do a Needs-Analysis survey amongst the target group at which the product is aimed?

In my opinion the Indian buyer is fairly street smart and looks at getting the best bang for his or her buck. If I were a potential buyer - I'd still rather go for the i20 and spend a few grand more as I'd value a large service network, a good reputation as a firm and a decent resale value.

VW has chosen a path which is neither Honda Jazz (stick to premium image) nor Fiat Grande Punto (undercut and super load to be a VFM proposition). It is not the smartest of moves.

In the base models - once again a Ritz or a Swift would come across as a better buy. Heck, at that price I'd even consider the top end Indica Vista now that is has ABS and Airbags. My 0.02.
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Old 6th March 2010, 08:18   #318
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The fit & finish of the polo is excellent. I dont think any other car in this segment can match this.

But the pricing post budget OTR Mumbai I find it on the higher side for this car.
Petrol 5.10 / 5.67 / 6.68L for Trendline/comfortline/ Highline. Simillarly
Diesel is 6.23 / 6.80 / 7.82L.

Punto E-Pack OTR Mumbai is 7.43L less Discounts of 25K-30K.
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Old 6th March 2010, 09:28   #319
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Volkswagen will have a tough time, selling their premium hatch after the initial hype.
the equipment levels do not justify the steep price. not many would buy a near 6 lakh hatch just for its Build Quality! Even fabia has that, but it has no takers.
the 1.2 litre 3 cyl petrol unit is just too outdated for a premium hatch.
Hyundai i20 is a far better value, and it will continue to rule the premium hatch market!
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Old 6th March 2010, 12:27   #320
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Another manufacturer who doesnt offer ABS+Airbags as an option on Base / Mid / High-end versions

Dont these manufacturers realize that there must be lots of customers who value ABS+Airbags over mp3 player, alloy wheels, chrome central console, etc.
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Old 6th March 2010, 12:32   #321
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Thumbs up Ich liebe die neu VW Polo (I loke the new VW Polo)!... ;)

So much has now been said about the new VW Polo that one would think what could possibly be left to comment-on/about. Well, in the most recent posts, there has been much more resentment than enthusiasm. And for the love of... well, VW, I thought it would be my duty to express and bring back some in-favour comments from a patron’s point of view. So here goes...
I test-drove the vehicle only yesterday, after having read the exhaustive and wonderful Team-BHP review a couple of days ago to the last comment! I mention this to let you know that the (valid) concerns raised by all of us in the forum were definitely in the back of my mind, and I was thinking to myself: a.) how significant would such-and-such objection prove to ME as a buyer? i.e. Is it really that annoying for me personally?; and b.) What would it take for me to make a buying decision despite that particular short-coming [if so identified]?
About the Engine:
Momma, gimme one more pot! Coming from the Maruti family (Wagon R), the power of the engine (i.e. the afore-pronounced lack of it) did not ‘bother me much’ to be honest. It is definitely valid that even my old WagonR has a 4 pot engine. Though the concern for VW was clearly FE in making this choice, it is worth noticing that not only are the Maruti K-series engines FE and 4 pots, but at the same time, even my older generation engine is quite FE and is still a 4 pot! Hmn..

But then again, thinking over it, I thought—what difference does it make to me as an average city-commuter? And in that department, from a practical perspective, 3 pot lost to FE. Also, though this is a 3-pot, its a genuine product from VW, it can not be substandard for sure!

Is that the engine I hear? Does the engine really make ‘some’ noise? Jep, surely it does! The real question is, does it make a bothersome noise? Nope! The engine sound is quite understated and pretty (for desperate lack of a better word for the moment,) refined.
In fact, as was rightly pointed-out it was quite pleasing as a unique sound of the robust engineering—I did like it in fact. But please do note that it was still quite low, not expressly noticeable—definitely not a nuisance. Do not compare it to the noise of any vehicles currently on road (definitely not an old Indica passing-by)! Only factor is, since I am not an expert on these things, I cannot comment on whether this noise/sound/hum will grow old beautifully enough....!
But what about the raw power? As for the power, for someone like me, a city traveller with occasional out-of-the-city highway rides within a 400km radius (max.), the power is not much of a bother. In fact, personally, being a cautious driver, I hardly cross 100 kmph even on the expressway. I know that many others would not be so patient. But then, at some point we have to wake up to the present infrastructural shortcomings and respect the stipulated speed limits. Even I am guilty of speeding if and when I cross the 80 kmph mark on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway, for sure!
Only thing is, being a 3 pot, or for whatever reason, it can be a bit disappointing whilst taking pickup in the first gear with the AC on. Do not get me wrong, if you do it right, it slides into action very well. But for someone like me, who does not speed and pick-up on that gear only with the AC off, perhaps it was just a matter of practice. But having test driven the other latest engines, during all of which I deliberately tried to take pickup from a stationary position with the AC on, this one was a bit disappointing. I do not like pushing the pedal too much unless I am really doing it to gain speed—but just to get the car moving? No! However, to put things into the right perspective, as I said, it could be my lack of practice (even after considering the comparatively weaker 1.2/3pot engine). I say this because I made the sales rep drive the car after my test drive to see if he could convince me that it was a non-issue, that perhaps it was all me not knowing how to do it. And he managed to do just that quite easily.
All-in-all, the 3 pot is selected for FE, as everyone knows by now—so if and when you buy it, you know what you are getting into. If it suits the purpose, why bother that it is not 4? So goes the reasoning. Germans are very practical in such approaches, and it shows!
[Also, I think this is one of the selling points, in fact amongst the rationales behind the reasoning to ‘Why pay so much when... ... ...?’, as many of us are asking, in terms of the brand of VW. Why do I say so? Well, I will definitely be coming back to this in a bit... ]
Ride Quality
The ride quality was excellent! As I said, I am a cautious driver and did not push the pedal hard on a service road. [The vehicle could not be taken outside on the highway etc. since the registration was pending ]. The road, though not exactly challenging, it was definitely uneven and it certainly tested the suspension. Also, my friend from the VW showroom, whilst he was driving, took the car to 100kmph on this road—it felt very calm inside the vehicle, you would not suspect that we were driving at that speed. This is definitely the European driving comfort that our forum experts were talking about.
Some other power-steerings out there might be a bit better, but this one, again, was not bad at all from the perspective of driving. The braking was also quite at par, if not better than the market comparables.
And the transmission, to put it in Mumbaiya terms, is just maska (smooth as butter) my friends!
About the things [frills] that it lacks
I should start by first taking due note of the fact that an European car-maker of VW’s repute [at least] should have tried to standardise Airbags, if not ABS et al as a standard safety feature. I wonder when we shall have this!
[Especially considering the fact that as affluence is on the rise, in absence of infrastructure and traffic regulation and controls to match it, safety is a concern some automaker should take ownership-of and load upon the market IMHO!]
Having said that, let us move on to the insignificant omissions. Of course this is again personal opinion, can not be generalised, but something I am putting forward as other side of the story. Hope it is understood/counter-argued in that healthy spirit.
To begin with, let’s talk about the Central Locking. The car does not auto-lock on ignition, agreed, this should have been a nice thing to have—definitely should have been present in the top model at the very least, I surely can not think of an excuse for defending that. But other than that, knowing that the car does not auto lock on ignition, one should definitely have the presence of mind to centrally lock things before ignition itself. It is one of those personal safety checks that one should instil. If I am in that much of a hurry/ absent-minded/ sheer careless about my own [and perhaps my family’s] safety, I probably should not be driving a vehicle! The good part of it is that one button is locking everything right form the four doors, to the dickey, and your fuel lid. Is that not convenient?
In fact, I really like the fact that the fuel lid does not need you to cumbersomely bend down or hand your vehicle key et al. Same goes for the dickey—especially super for our frantic mall security agencies. [An oh what fun it is to open the dickey with die wünderbar VW logo! ]
Okay, now that I speak of mall security, there is one downer with this vehicle. I once had the good fortune [pun intended] of having to open my bonnet as well whilst entering a mall parking lot. If you frequent such a parking place, it is a bit of a pain with the Polo because the bonnet lid can only be let open once you open the driver-side-door! Yikes, sorry!
And speaking of the bonnet, you know what? I like the fact that finally the under-hood-lever (I do not know what the pros call it, like so many other unknowns in my life ) that we use to disengage the lid before lifting it, it now has a little cap on it. It is nice to have that over the choice of having greasy fingers in my Maruti!
So, now we have opened the bonnet. And yes, it is confirmed that there is room for a bigger setup there!
Another query brought-up in this regard was someone’s mentioning that there is no insulation material on the underbelly of the bonnet lid. I thought about it too. And so, I asked my friend at VW. His reply? “Sir was required in Diesel vehicles, it is not necessary for this car!” And you know what, considering it judiciously, I buy that argument! Please consider the fact that whatever is not required is a cost—for the company, and ultimately, for the customer! Even this aggressive a pricing plan does not come easily to a quality European manufacturer like VW—think boond boond se ghat bharta hai!
Why would I pay so much when I can get a XYZ for INR ABC...?!
This question is coming up quite a bit in the recent posts. And one of the common rhetorical follow-ons by the people posing it is often that: “So all in all, am I just paying the premium for the VW Brand?? [And whatever happened to the thought about entering the non-premium hatchback segment Mr.VW?]”
Well, as Shakespeare once said, “What’s in the name?” Sure, I say! But Mr. S said that a long time ago. Not to say that it does not hold true, but rather that however classic it might be, it cannot fit and/or serve any and every context! Please allow me to expand on this:
All being said and done, the Polo is not just the Polo, it is THE classic VW Polo. It has been [and evolved] as the VW Polo since the 1970’s—quite a long time now. Meaning that: a.) yes, it counts where its coming from, and b.) yes, we WILL pay for the VW tag in effect!
But but but... though we are talking about paying for the brand, I do not feel at all that one is paying a brand premium per se on the Polo! Its one thing paying the fair amount, and its another paying exorbitantly more for the sake of the tag! IMHO, the price tag of the VW Polo is quite just—in fact, if anything, it is quite commendable. What you pay for, in terms of the VW brand, is not just the price for the pride of ownership, but several rather strong and materially substantial baggage that comes with that name and its legacy.
With the name comes the guarantee of quality engineering, quality service and world class-production. The Polo is a tried-and-tested international model. And howmuchever we [or VW for that matter] like it to measure-up to the [Indian] competition of the Suzuki Swift or the Hyundai i20 in all contexts afore mentioned in discussions, the model itself has to primarily stay true to its own existence. Yes, the Indian Polo is a bit different than its European counterpart, but it is still the Polo.
The price point that VW has reached for the moment is quite commendable considering its evident quality of engineering and design, and concern for safety. At the time that he company must have considered what they should tweak/include/exclude from the Polo in order to introduce it in this section of the Indian market, just as they had the [spot-on] must-haves of FE, VFM considerations, they also must have had the non-negotiable safety considerations that come from their European roots. Hence come the semi-opening rear windows, central-locking with the driver [even at the base model], etc. Also, the louder horn is something that VW would find worth mentioning because at the same time that it is almost customary on Indian roads, it is considered unnecessary [or even rude] in the Western markets—a louder horn is definitely something they consider that they grant as a rather safety feature in the Indian context. In a similar fashion, the air vents on the European Polo’s climatiser are just as simple as are on ours—this follows from the VW origins as the solid no frills functional machine heritage. Of course GM is giving much fancier options; perhaps VW will grant them too, but no, not in the Polo!
Rather than spending your 500 bucks on the inner cover for the bonnet-lid, VW finds it more economical to avoid it by having an assured technology and thus the confidence that such an item is not required at all—is that not more appealing from the functional perspective? The competition like the Swift gives you even fog lights at the same price point as the VW Polo’s Trendline: sure, but the Polo is assuredly giving you what it promises at an excellent quality level, unlike the weaker lights provided by the former!
The fit and finish that VW gives, we are quick to comment on how that is the only thing that perhaps the vehicle offers at a superior level. However, what is worth mentioning is the manufacturer’s passion for perfection that is reflected in the same—are they advertising it? No. Why? Because quality is a given at VW—that is what we are paying for!
Many a times, numbers mislead us—absolute figures do not measure up in percentage terms, percentages misguide the underlying figures, and what not! Hence, it is very important that one reads into the finer details before judging on either! It is irrelevant that who offers what and how much at a given price; what is relevant is that if you are considering a VW Polo, does it measure up to what is required and expected of it at its own price point. Yes, the Indian market is a notoriously VFM market; but the question is, is the VW Polo VFM or not—on its own, not considering what Suzuki, Hyundai, Ford, Honda, XYZ has to offer.
If we consider the may-or-may-not-be important elements, and the one’s beyond what is essential, perhaps the Swift comes out as the winner. The question is, is THAT worth the bargain to YOU...!?
As is evident, all things considered, I shall definitely put my money on the VW Polo—it’s a great bargain at the price point offered...!!!
[And no, I do not work for the VW Group’s marketing team. Although an offer towards the same would definitely interesting! ]


Cheers!
Paresh
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Old 6th March 2010, 13:36   #322
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Bangalore on road prices for polo is jus crazy ..
may be VW wants polo to go the jazz way

It will go up another 1%-2 % as the Karnataka budget has increased the lifetime road tax too

Last edited by motor spirit : 6th March 2010 at 13:37.
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Old 6th March 2010, 13:47   #323
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Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
IMHO i20 CRDi is one of the best diesel cars in sub 10L segemnt. None of the new hatches can come close to i20 in terms of features and space (The only real European diesel hatch made and sold in India, hence the price is justified).
I wouldn't agree with that statement. Features alone don't make a car and i20 is fair bit behind the competition when it comes to ride and handling, steering and overall dynamics. Even the Figo which is cheaper by a long hop better the latest Hyundai when it comes to ride and handling and steering.
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Old 6th March 2010, 14:37   #324
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Originally Posted by pareshpandit View Post
The fit and finish that VW gives, we are quick to comment on how that is the only thing that perhaps the vehicle offers at a superior level. However, what is worth mentioning is the manufacturer’s passion for perfection that is reflected in the same—are they advertising it? No. Why? Because quality is a given at VW—that is what we are paying for!
Spot of Paresh, this is excactly the view point of anyone that has experienced a POLO or GOLF, especially in Europe.

The post is hard to read, could have made into sections and some snaps. This gives the finishing touch that I was missing from GTO's review

I was just observing the London roads last few days, so many 8+ year old POLOs adn GOLF can be spotted after the scarappage scheme (In UK you could exchange cars older than 8 years and get a £2000 discount on the new car, if you had to owned the old one for a year). All other small old cars have vanished from the road.

VW (especially POLO and GOLF) epitomises the build quality and often I feel the cars are made for ever!

Look at the second hand market, 2lakh plus KM POLO's are still hot in market if well maintained, even toyota is cant match this.

The design is ageless and it can be only realised after 5 years. GM will woo customers with its funky designs which will come and go.

But POLO will be here for ever untill cars exists
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Old 6th March 2010, 14:44   #325
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Originally Posted by pareshpandit View Post
knowing that the car does not auto lock on ignition, one should definitely have the presence of mind to centrally lock things before ignition itself. It is one of those personal safety checks that one should instil. If I am in that much of a hurry/ absent-minded/ sheer careless about my own [and perhaps my family’s] safety, I probably should not be driving a vehicle!

Not having auto-lock actually helps someone like me who has to get down from the car everytime i take the car out of my apartment complex, as i have to open the gates myself most of the times (very often the watchman is away doing things like switching motor, etc and the distance between my car park slot and the gates is more than 100 feet)

unlocking the auto-lock within 30 secs and locking again is really annoying. Some cars have an auto-lock which works only if the car crosses 10kph. that is the right option.
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Old 6th March 2010, 16:14   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpzone View Post


VW (especially POLO and GOLF) epitomises the build quality and often I feel the cars are made for ever!

Look at the second hand market, 2lakh plus KM POLO's are still hot in market if well maintained, even toyota is cant match this.

The design is ageless and it can be only realised after 5 years. GM will woo customers with its funky designs which will come and go.

But POLO will be here for ever untill cars exists

Thanks hpzone, from the very begining we could see two factions, i.e. pro VW (obviously those who know VW and Europe) and con VW (it a'int there fault). You have to live these machines to believe in them. So I guess with more TD's of this car lot of misconceptions of the POLO will give way and a nice practical machine (image) will emerge and " (IMHO)'s " will then start tilting more towards the pro-VW side .
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Old 6th March 2010, 17:40   #327
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Just checked out polo at the showroom in calicut.The place was teeming with people checking out polo.The vehicle looks absolutely fab,far better than in pics.
My few quick observations-
Pros:
Great build,finish,steering has large range of rake and tilt adjust,seat fabric is good even in base model,smooth shifts with short throw.head room is ok
Cons:
Really low seating with effective space less than a swift,plastics on base model are not all that great,it is NOT possible to fit a six footer one behind another.
Weirdly i could not find a decent driving position.Shorter people will find road visibilty hampered especially due to high set dash and low seats.The petrol engine at idle has a lot of vibrations(like an indica v2) which get transmitted a fair bit into cabin.The engine noise on a rev is sporty,better sounding than the one in figo.
vw calicut had only 5 bookings before display cars arrived and 3 days after have shot upto 40.I am holding my booking until actual test drive next wednesday.Car delivery expected in late april if booked now.Was surprised that many people had actually booked a not so practicable vehicle with unknown A*S*S.
And yes the engine uses synthetic oil at scheduled changes every 15 k and 4 litres are reqiured.

Here are a few pics
(The shade of red cant just be reproduced exactly on camera,only GTOs pics come close to the real thing.Its far livelier.The back seat pic is the miniscule space you have after a six footer has gotten in front.The dashboard pic shows a rather staid looking one in a base model.I absolutely loved the one in white.)

Went straight after to TD the k series swift.the driving position is fabulous and the engine is really sweet!lots of low end torque,driveability.On the contrary to reports of a tweaked suspension ,i found the ride bumpy and comes no where close to the euro stable.
Does the polo matches today what the swift brought to the table when it was launched? Naah.
By the way i would vote GTOs reviews to be the best in india(The indian Jeremy Clarkson without the british snobbery!)what say guys?
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Old 6th March 2010, 17:48   #328
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Looked in on the Polo - great build quality etc but the engine is tiny
Walked over to look at the Figo- decent space but built to a price and red dash, blck stereo, silver facia does not cut it
Jumped into my swift - nice big seats, good handling, same about clutch and ride.

I reserve judgement till a 1.6 Polo comes along but metal for money - the Figo. If you buy and keep cars for a long time - the Polo
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Old 6th March 2010, 18:29   #329
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<<<<Really low seating with effective space less than a swift,plastics on base model are not all that great,it is NOT possible to fit a six footer one behind another.
Weirdly i could not find a decent driving position.Shorter people will find road visibilty hampered especially due to high set dash and low seats.>>>>

Today visited VW showroom and Ford showroom (third time)in chennai. Both are located nearby and walkable. The driving position is not great as said by Aditya . I am 6.2'' tall and when I pushed the driver seat fully back, the backside passenger felt cramped. This is better in Figo. But the VW quality is definitely superior. Sales guys in VW showroom are very confident of sales of Petrol polo. They said already 50 bookings have been done. I saw one family doing the booking immediately after seeing the car and TD has not started in chennai. Another man who came with his family said that he had booked Trendline Petrol and came for colour confirmation. He said he was using this in London and did not have problem.
My assumption is Polo will do well in Petrol and Figo in Diesel.
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Old 6th March 2010, 18:38   #330
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To add, only real time ownership review will tell the real story of performance,usability and reliability as these two manufacturers (VW and ford) are totally new to this hatchback market in India.
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