Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Official New Car Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th March 2010, 10:56   #436
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,735
Thanked: 414 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Question : Does the market prefer an older + still relevant product, or will it be looked over for a newer car (that doesn't offer any more functionality / key strength)



1.3 lakhs difference in the top-end? Sorry to say, but NO. The Figo may be older, but the engine is a proper 4 cylinder that's high on refinement (much more so than the Polo's 3 cylinder).



Agreed. Ask the guy on the street and he won't have a clue! What the mass market cares about is not categorisation, but size where the two are similar.
Having great respect for your views, I tend to disagree a bit.

Does the Fiesta 1.4 Diesel (newer platform) and the Ikon 1.4 Diesel (old platform), having the same engines and approximately same size and interior space (Ikon perhaps a lil more space due to inward dash) command the same price?

Does the Indigo Manza (local platform) with same engine and features of Linea (global platform) command the same price? Albeit Manza has more space.

Are Linea and Fiesta overpriced.

The answer is no. There is clear segmentation and the market is aware why Linea and Fiesta command a premium over the local made for India Indigo and the older Ikon.

Its not as simple to say X car is VFM giving stereo, airbag, performance, FE compared to Y car which is giving the same for a higher price.

- Has anyone compared audio quality of stock systems of Figo and Polo?
- Is there a value to the plastic quality
- Is there a value to metal sheet
- Value associated with alloy wheels (15") and meaty tyres


Isnt there a significant cost difference between a new platform based A Star and an Alto which is based on M800 parts. Is Estillo selling more than A Star being an older platform. Do we want to encourage manfacturers to do Alto jobs on us.

Again nothing but respect for you just a difference of opinion.

Last edited by aseem : 11th March 2010 at 10:57.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 11:32   #437
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,535
Thanked: 975 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Of course they are direct competitors. Either is a fresh brand in the diesel hatch market (ignoring the petrols here). The Polo may have slighter larger dimensions, but how does that matter when their interior + boot space are identical? In fact, IIRC the Figo had better rear space than the Polo (slightly so, can be reconfirmed after checking them next to each other).

Both are European based models with similar interior space, outright performance, ride & handling. The only reason that the Figo is priced so well is that its an older platform.

Question : Does the market prefer an older + still relevant product, or will it be looked over for a newer car (that doesn't offer any more functionality / key strength)



1.3 lakhs difference in the top-end? Sorry to say, but NO. The Figo may be older, but the engine is a proper 4 cylinder that's high on refinement (much more so than the Polo's 3 cylinder).



Agreed. Ask the guy on the street and he won't have a clue! What the mass market cares about is not categorisation, but size where the two are similar.

Thanks for the clarification GTO. It's more relevant when it comes from a person who has tested the both the cars in and out.

The other argument is about the premium feel of the Polo's interiors. Is it as good as the Fabia?

It'll be interesting to watch how the Polo fares with it's premium positioning with not so premium specs.

P.S: For me premium is eg. When a car offers features that are at times missing even a segment above. I'm dumb founded at the specs of the i20 when compared to my fiesta.

Last edited by kiku007 : 11th March 2010 at 11:36.
kiku007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 12:03   #438
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,735
Thanked: 414 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
It'll be interesting to watch how the Polo fares with it's premium positioning with not so premium specs.

P.S: For me premium is eg. When a car offers features that are at times missing even a segment above. I'm dumb founded at the specs of the i20 when compared to my fiesta.
Is having features is what makes a car premium. Is i20 premium world wide over Jazz? Is giving climate control, airbags, stereo what warrants the tag premium?

In that case maybe Hyundai Sonata is premium over BMW 3 series corporate edition. A strip down BMW 3 series in US will cost more than a fully loaded Camry. Camry having more space, more features, more specs.

Again the point I want to stress is, 2 ppl can have modular kitchens with same features like chimney, gas etc. But one modular kitchen can be for 1 lakhs and the other for 10 lakhs depending on quality of wood, craftsmenship and what not.

Another point, does a 60 watt Boss speaker with same specs command the same price as a JBL 60 watt speaker with similar spec. Does a JBL speaker command the same price as Alpine etc etc.

VW Passat was a dud, does anyone remember Mondeo?

Why did NHC sell more than the fully loaded SX4 Zxi? That had more features too.

Which badge commands more snob value, Ford or VW, both globally and in India?

A similar spec Loto show will always be cheaper than Nike.... Ppl still go for Nike.... Isnt brand value something that we all aspire for?

Just some questions that come to mind. I havent driven the Polo yet, but I was bowled over by its quality when I saw it in person. I have also seen Figo in person and came out unimpressed. If it was my money, I would gladly pay the premium.

To conclude, to each his own...

Last edited by aseem : 11th March 2010 at 12:06.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 12:15   #439
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,535
Thanked: 975 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Is having features is what makes a car premium. Is i20 premium world wide over Jazz? Is giving climate control, airbags, stereo what warrants the tag premium?

VW Passat was a dud, does anyone remember Mondeo?

Which badge commands more snob value, Ford or VW, both globally and in India?

Just some questions that come to mind. I havent driven the Polo yet, but I was bowled over by its quality when I saw it in person. I have also seen Figo in person and came out unimpressed. If it was my money, I would gladly pay the premium.

To conclude, to each his own...
Aseem

Please take it in the right spirit. I have clearly mentioned that it's my view. Like you said, to each his own

If snob value and quality are premium then so be it for you. I would wait for the market's response.

And speaking about quality - I own a Ikon (70K Kms) and Fiesta. They do have good quality interiors that don't rattle or fall apart or fade. I didn't pay a premium for this quality.

Why are so worked up on this that you are bringing the Mondeo here to talk about the Passat! Common dude!

Last edited by kiku007 : 11th March 2010 at 12:20.
kiku007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 12:22   #440
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 205
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Is having features is what makes a car premium. Is i20 premium world wide over Jazz? Is giving climate control, airbags, stereo what warrants the tag premium?


Just some questions that come to mind. I havent driven the Polo yet, but I was bowled over by its quality when I saw it in person. I have also seen Figo in person and came out unimpressed. If it was my money, I would gladly pay the premium.

To conclude, to each his own...
Aseem: I support your views that build quality, interior quality, quality of underlying platform and fit and finish of a car does play a major part in a car being termed as "premium".They can be valued more than other bells and whistles. If Polo scores well in these compared to Figo,Swift and similar hatches then its a real premium hatch and will find a segment of buyers. I keep saying "a segment" because major portion of Indian hatch/entry level sedan market is very cost consious and values features, FE, number of service station more compared to aspects that are USP for Polo.
joshdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 12:31   #441
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 649 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Spoilt for choice?

When I was in the market for a hatch last year, I was wallowing in an agony of indecision with the many choices available and my wife was fed up of test drives!
Reading recent threads, it seems that the situation has gotten a lot better/worse! But overall, I'd say it is the best of times for a buyer in the segment.
Even the K series powered Swift seems to be a very good buy at this time!
As far as the Polo and this thread is concerned I am reinforced in my thinking that the base model petrol is the one to buy, with after market music and central locking added. The high end ones don't seem to have enough of the bells and whistles, and the diesels seem to be poor engines at silly prices.
On the other hand, the base diesel Figo seems to be in the same price space as the base petrol Polo, which makes the Figo the one to buy - can someone set out reasons why the petrol Polo would make the better car to buy in India, compared to just a diesel Figo? Assuming of course that the Figo is now a better car than a diesel Swift.

Last edited by Sawyer : 11th March 2010 at 12:35.
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 13:38   #442
BHPian
 
horabonny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: mumbai
Posts: 60
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manikjeet View Post
my initial response is that the car is good for the price it comes for and its VFM. The engine it rough maybe because its new. The quality is top notch and you get the feeling of being in a bigger car and the pick up is great for 1.2 l engine and the turning radius is nice the gear shift is butter smooth

but the rear seat is not a good place to be in for long journeys
It landed me around 4.70LAC
now let the pics do the talking (sorry taken with a e51 pathetic camera)
Congrats for the new vehicle, please do post better pics and keep us updated on your experiences with this beautiful chic.We await more comments from your side, also tell us more on the ride quality and more observations.
horabonny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 13:53   #443
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,735
Thanked: 414 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Can someone set out reasons why the petrol Polo would make the better car to buy in India, compared to just a diesel Figo?
For the same reason that Swift Dezire Petrol sells more than Ford Ikon Diesel.

Figo is a dated platform from inside out.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:14   #444
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 951
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
For the same reason that Swift Dezire Petrol sells more than Ford Ikon Diesel.

Figo is a dated platform from inside out.
Ooops...that was one sweeping, generalised statement!!

BTW, pardon my ignorance, but what is this "dated platform" thing?

One one hand, you have qouted earlier that Figo is "made for India platform", and within 3-4 pages of this thread, it becomes a "dated platform" - both does not gel!
sanjayc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:20   #445
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 649 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
For the same reason that Swift Dezire Petrol sells more than Ford Ikon Diesel.

Figo is a dated platform from inside out.
Yes, but as a driver/user, what would I get in the petrol Polo that the Figo diesel would not give me? I am not getting any sense of that from the test reports. On the other hand, the Figo does drive well - going by what is reported, with a very well sorted out ride and handling package, and a very good engine. Ford's after sales is not brilliant, while the VW is untested in this regard, so not much to choose on that count. Will the Polo outlast the Figo?
By the way, I would not agree to the Dezire comparison as an analogy to this one. In that case, the difference in dating is a little more, I suspect, and Maruti has an after sales presence that Ford is very far from approaching.

Last edited by Sawyer : 11th March 2010 at 14:37.
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:42   #446
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 649 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default

And, as always, the verdict of the market on the merits of the two cars will be the final arbiter on which is the better product. We will know that in a few months from the real world outside this site!
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:47   #447
BHPian
 
Daewood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 943
Thanked: 222 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Yes, but as a driver/user, what would I get in the petrol Polo that the Figo diesel would not give me? I am not getting any sense of that from the test reports.

i guess both the cars offer completely different set of "features" to different set of people.

On one hand the FIGO Diesel offers good value for money and IMO it should be compared to other VFM diesels like SWIFT, PUNTO, RITZ, VISTA

On the other hand POLO petrol offers a premium brand image and quality(and when i mean quality it doesn't mean just one part, the car as a whole)
and hence it should be compared to cars like i20, Fabia, Jazz.

On the whole there is enough space for both these cars in their respective target segments and in those respective segments clearly these 2 are winners.
Daewood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:54   #448
BHPian
 
hpzone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: COK/LON
Posts: 137
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post

Figo USP: Great Price, diesel engine
Beat: Funky styling, good price
i20: Great interiors, good petrol and diesel engine
Swift: Fun, A.S.S
Indica: Price, space

What is the Polo's USP? I can't think of any. Only the glove box looks great to me.
May be i will have to wait for anither 2-3 years to say this, but then it will read as

An ageless design, excellent build, rock solid relaiability and very practical.

Just compare a 10 year old POLO and Ford Fiesta (in europe).

Figo, i20, beat are these cars will come and go but POLO is going to stay here for ever

A car you can own for ever!
hpzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 14:55   #449
BHPian
 
WindRide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 600
Thanked: 183 Times
Default

People buy Figo for its practicality - large boot, spacious rear seat (both mean no need for a sedan), awesome diesel option.

People buy Polo for the intangibles - VW snootiness, impress girlfriends / in-laws / pesky neighbour.

Figo and Polo cannot be compared. They serve customers with different mentalities and requirements.

Last edited by WindRide : 11th March 2010 at 14:58.
WindRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2010, 15:09   #450
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,127
Thanked: 649 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
On the other hand POLO petrol offers a premium brand image and quality(and when i mean quality it doesn't mean just one part, the car as a whole)
and hence it should be compared to cars like i20, Fabia, Jazz.
But then the user interface of the car should feel as good as it does on the cars named, and I read in the reports that the car does not feel like a premium car inside.
As far as longevity is concerned, time will tell, but is it possible to know this ahead and not wait for ten years?! Is there any evidence in the build of the two cars that can allow one to predict how say the Indian Polo with 100000 kms on it will feel, drive and ride as compared to a similarly run Figo?
I haven't come across anything in the test reports to give an insight into that. If the Polo will come across a lot better at that stage in its life, that is certainly a good reason to prefer it, even with its somewhat downmarket interiors. As long as one knows they will stay as good as new for years. And all of this, at similar costs of maintenance as the competitor cars.
PS: The one downer about Fords is that expensive things tend to break in them. Maybe this has changed in recent times. Say what you will about Marutis rattling, but the running gear tends to last better than in some Fords in the past. Polo, I have no idea how it will turn out on that count. German cars are well engineered, but tend to not be as reliable as Japanese and Korean ones.

Last edited by Sawyer : 11th March 2010 at 15:24.
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review GTO Official New Car Reviews 8611 16th November 2016 12:26
Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 Litre Petrol (Trendline) Test Drive, Review & Photos Karizma Fan Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 40 18th February 2010 20:45


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:07.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks