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Old 11th March 2010, 17:37   #466
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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
Have anybody here seen the German version of the very same Polo that got launched here in India recently? apart from the engine capacity, I was expecting all the features to be present in the Indian version. If it were, then I'd be happy with the current pricing. But since it is not the case I simply feel that it is over priced. How many disagree with me?

BHP'ians, show some solidarity here. Let VW learn it's lesson. Go for some other cars. Do not please go by the brand name and pay these car manufacturers who are taking the Indian customers for a ride.
Oh my! Not this please. We are just having a discussion here. Inspite of the arguments, the bottomline is to each his own.

If your view is shared by the general public, then it'll show in the sales. Why worry?
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Old 11th March 2010, 17:57   #467
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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
Have anybody here seen the German version of the very same Polo that got launched here in India recently? apart from the engine capacity, I was expecting all the features to be present in the Indian version. If it were, then I'd be happy with the current pricing. But since it is not the case I simply feel that it is over priced. How many disagree with me?

BHP'ians, show some solidarity here. Let VW learn it's lesson. Go for some other cars. Do not please go by the brand name and pay these car manufacturers who are taking the Indian customers for a ride.
Ok, I think we're crossing a line here. This is a public forum for car enthusiasts and everyone here is likely, liable and encouraged to have an opinion. And this forum provides us an opportunity to shape that opinion through factual information from / personal experiences of other car enthusiasts.

That said, it is absolutely unacceptable for anyone to carry out an unfair agenda against a car/manufacturer. While I insinuate nothing and intend no offence, your extremely pointed statements reinforce the fact that there nothing to logically refrain other manufacturers from planting vested interests in this forum to influence unsuspecting car-buyers.

You are welcome to have your opinion about the Polo and to like or dislike whichever car you want. No one is forcing you to spend your hard earned money on the Polo or stopping you from hating the Polo or the Punto or any other car. But asking Bhp-ians to "show some solidarity here. Let VW learn it's lesson. Go for some other cars" is just not cricket. More so, since you have absolutely no ground to stand on other than your opinion which certainly does not merit a sweeping, rabble-rousing statement in a forum.

And as for your first question, I whole-heartedly disagree. If the Polo were offering all the European features - 6 airbags, ESP, Traction control, sunroof etc - it would be inane to expect it to be launched at this price. Not too many rational car buyers would even dream of expecting something like that.

Anyway, to re-state a previous point - No offence intended.
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Old 11th March 2010, 18:12   #468
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Anyways seems like POLO isn't likely to set the sales charts Afire as VW might have expected
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Old 11th March 2010, 18:32   #469
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Anyways seems like POLO isn't likely to set the sales charts Afire as VW might have expected
I guess the average bookings of Petrol polo itself across dealers ( may be 40 of them ) is more than 60+. And in previous post I saw a dealer is having 100+ bookings. So, the initial response is damn good for a company like VW with merely 40 dealers but still selling close to 2500 cars !

It may not sustain for a long time but right now it's good for VW. We are talking about premium , VFM all this stuff ( including me in the top ) , but if they are able to sell more than 2000 cars even in first few months , that will change the game for VW and then we may have a surprise.

* Please don't jump on me regarding the numbers as they are mere speculations.

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The sales person informed that the 1st service is at 15000 km, which cost you around ~7-8K and every 15000 km thereafter.
Oh my god ! so 7-8K is the official figure for each service ?
Now this is what is "premium"
How much oil a 3 pot engine consumes? Oh, I forgot it's premium oil( liquid engineering at it's best ).

Last edited by worldcrawler : 11th March 2010 at 18:45.
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Old 11th March 2010, 19:00   #470
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Originally Posted by worldcrawler View Post
I guess the average bookings of Petrol polo itself across dealers ( may be 40 of them ) is more than 60+. And in previous post I saw a dealer is having 100+ bookings. So, the initial response is damn good for a company like VW with merely 40 dealers but still selling close to 2500 cars !
Well the Honda Jazz's sales no's for the first 2 months or so were around the 2-2.5k mark and then started the big plunge. A new product will always receive a good initial response (especially the POLO after all the publicity). Whether sales will remain good will depend on the feedback of the initial owners. The biggest problem like is mentioned is the dealer network. The whole of karnataka has only 3 dealers in bangalore..
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Old 11th March 2010, 19:07   #471
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Well the Honda Jazz's sales no's for the first 2 months or so were around the 2-2.5k mark and then started the big plunge. A new product will always receive a good initial response (especially the POLO after all the publicity). Whether sales will remain good will depend on the feedback of the initial owners. The biggest problem like is mentioned is the dealer network. The whole of karnataka has only 3 dealers in bangalore..
Absolutely agree. That's what I was also trying to say, the initial response is good. If we look at it from accessibility perspective , Honda had a lot more dealers for Jazz but VW is managing to sell the same numbers with only 40 dealers.

I know it's too early to predict but 7-8K service cost is definitely going to hit the sales in long run.
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Old 11th March 2010, 19:13   #472
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Okay , today i took a test drive of the Polo highline,and to be honest i'm quite impressed with the overall package.Never felt that the engine is underpowered with 3 person onboard including me,and as GTO have mentioned in his Test report,Polo has one of the best gearbox, no two ways about that.Overall plastic quality and all is very good.

Engine is not very silent as compared to say K series but then aint as bad as 1.2 3 pot Fabia :| .At the end of the day will like to buy this vehicle?Yup for sure if its pricing is 40-50k less then what they actually asking.Got to know from the sales guy that the service interval is 15k km/1 year.
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Old 11th March 2010, 19:53   #473
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Originally Posted by worldcrawler View Post

Oh my god ! so 7-8K is the official figure for each service ?
Now this is what is "premium"
How much oil a 3 pot engine consumes? Oh, I forgot it's premium oil( liquid engineering at it's best ).

Should not be correct information. I remember reading elsewhere that a fellow BHPian paid around 3K for his Fabia service.

Regarding Oil consumption - It comes from the same family of Oil gulping Jetta and Passat. Read ACI long term Jetta report. Even they complain of it's Oil drinking habbits.
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Old 11th March 2010, 20:11   #474
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Originally Posted by crackingride View Post
What is galling in the extreme is that the features we talk about being missing, high end or basic, are all available on the international versions of the Polo.

Since we are always harking to the i20 as a suitable benchmark, any ideas how many of its "international version" features have been left out for us lowly Indians who cannot afford nor know any better?


crackingride, while we compare the missed out features, let us also not

forget the "dinero" they command. Lets keep Europe aside because things

are different there. How about Asia Pacific, namely Singapore, Thailand,

Vietnam, Taiwan and similar. Please go to http://www.vwasia.com/publish

/vwasia/vwasia/en.html and get the idea of prices of the basic Polo.Then

compare what we are paying for our basic one. Fog might clear then .VW

have been selling ( Polo fifth generation now ) in 50+ countries { may be

more } and they study the requirement ( people mindset )

of each country. Please let me know any other country which has these

cars selling at such " lowly " prices.


Its like " you can't have your cake and eat it too " situation. You can

either have more boot space or more leg room at rear seat ( pick your

priority ).You can either have 15 " mag wheels with powerful aircon or you

prefer the ORVM's and climate control. I do not see any other premium

hatch manufacturer who dares write 6 years anti corrosion warranty. ( 12

yrs in case of Jetta and Passat ). If you want a powerful " motor " wait for

the 1.6 polo and please be ready to dig deeper into your pocket. For

international version show them the international moolah.The fact that this

is a VFM, FE market, the German's are playing a very safe bet. If you

know "Staedtler " ( I have used those yellow with black striped pencils

since my childhood, I still do) then you will know what brand and quality is

(P.S. Even then more attractive pencils were available and all used to

sharpen the broken lead most of the time while I wrote). We paid premium

price for their stationary even then while no extra features were added, it

was just the "build quality ".
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Old 11th March 2010, 21:02   #475
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joe1980, I can understand why you're upset about the lack of features in the Indian VW Polo. But companies are after profits, and the only reason VW threw out most of the nicer features in the Polo was because it believed that Indians will not pay the extra price for them.

A lot of people complain about the missing climate control, the cheaper headlights, the mirrors that you have to adjust manually etc etc, but if you also say that you expect these features at the same price as what's currently being sold, then you're deluding yourself. No point planning to take out a morcha or start demonstrating.

Now if you're willing to pay 10L OTR for a top spec VW Polo, then go to your local dealer and explain that to him. Thats what I did. Unfortunately there are very few people in India who value features/specifications over size/status. Furthermore, our government's protectionist stance with respect to the automobile industry, and the resultant high import duties, mean that the market for any car has to be significant in order to justify the expense of manufacturing it here. So dont expect a 1.2TSI Polo with 7-speed DSG to be available in India anytime soon, if ever.

Capitalism works like democracy: minorities very rarely get what they want.

Most we can hope for is a Polo 1.6.

Last edited by theEnd : 11th March 2010 at 21:06.
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Old 11th March 2010, 21:28   #476
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I guess a Polo here in Germany costs roughly about 15, 000 Euros. The vehicle is assembled here in Europe (Well, these might not be exactly true but to some extent). I really do not know the rules and norms for manufacturing a car in India. But I certainly do know that the cost of manufacturing in India is far far less than in Europe. This being the case, why should this vehicle cost so much in India? In simple terms it looks like "Indian Made - European priced" but rather I would expect "Indian Made - Indian Priced"
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Old 11th March 2010, 21:41   #477
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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
Have anybody here seen the German version of the very same Polo that got launched here in India recently? apart from the engine capacity, I was expecting all the features to be present in the Indian version. If it were, then I'd be happy with the current pricing. But since it is not the case I simply feel that it is over priced. How many disagree with me?

BHP'ians, show some solidarity here. Let VW learn it's lesson. Go for some other cars. Do not please go by the brand name and pay these car manufacturers who are taking the Indian customers for a ride.
woah!

You really want everything, huh? Fully loaded, latest technology, all bells and whistles + it should be cheap to own, give good F.E and sell at a cheap price.

Not gonna happen.

Please keep in mind that VW (Just like all other companies) is aiming to maximize profits - not run a charity.

Also, no one is taking anyone for a ride! Anyone able to purchase a car will have access to internet/magazines/friends etc. We are capable to justify if we want to spend XXXX on a car or not, right? However, we can explain to the dealers that we want to have fully loaded hatches and are willing to pay for it! But as a minority, this won't happen very soon (it's uneconomical for a company to bring few cars like this)!

Besides, hopefully the engineering that has gone into this car will show in the long run and make up for the lack of features.

Just my opinion, no offense intended!

Last edited by anekho : 11th March 2010 at 21:44.
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Old 11th March 2010, 22:00   #478
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well, firstly i want to thank the mods for approving my participation. So guys, excuse my naivety on the topic, to be frank about the VW Polo, i think it is a lot of brouhaha and less on substance. Lets put things in perspective, when we talk about 'premium hatch' or colloquially known as 'hot hatches' in India - there are only two - The Jazz and i20 (am ignoring the outmoded Fabia for the time being), VW has come to just tap the market with it offering, but at the same time wanted volumes for it cars - quite frankly, one doesnt get to see too many VWs on road, unlike say, in the UK!

what this situation has given birth to is a contrived market position, that i doubt even VW is aware of. Neither have the managed to woo the buyers of i10 to the base model Polo, simply because of the lack of features (read 'neglect') and neither have they given the HIghline variant a value proposition that commands a price tag of OTR 6.34 lakhs (navi-mumbai).

My humble eyes brought the following under notice at the showroom:

1 Turn off: The salesman says "VW wants to get simply numbers from the car, hence you might not see as many features"; like D-uh! I know, but in that case why command a premium?

2 Turn off: Electronicall adjustable OVRMs shud be a must, atleast on Comfortline onwards, where's the 'comfort' i ask?

3 Turn off: I read in the reviews about the high quality of interiors. well, i must agree the bench and seats seemed to be comfortable, but the plastics used in the car are down right horrendous!!! the black plastics attract dust and fingerprints like it was part of it, and the plastics used screams 'COST CUTTING' all the way through. The deal breaker for me was the interior plastics used, the glove box moves if you shrug it. Agreed it might not make sound right away, but 30000 kms and 2.5 yrs after you might find the in-cabin sounds pretty annoying.


Friends, i am making a very educated observation here, because i own a Jetta. Though it might not be an A+ segment car, but you can witness the so called, revered German Engineering and Quality is every nook & corner (this remark is not intended to S-Class owners ) I had all intentions to buy the Highline, but VW has lost an ardent fan to probably a Ford or even Hyundai (Germans don't like losing, leave alone to the Koreans) Here's hoping that common sense prevails and VW gets their act together, before they go the Fiat and Palio way (potential but alas! no result)
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Old 11th March 2010, 22:33   #479
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I guess a Polo here in Germany costs roughly about 15, 000 Euros. The vehicle is assembled here in Europe (Well, these might not be exactly true but to some extent). I really do not know the rules and norms for manufacturing a car in India. But I certainly do know that the cost of manufacturing in India is far far less than in Europe. This being the case, why should this vehicle cost so much in India? In simple terms it looks like "Indian Made - European priced" but rather I would expect "Indian Made - Indian Priced"
15,000 Euros is Rs. 9.3L. Taxes out here in India are probably as high as in Germany. Steel costs virtually the same anywhere in the world, as do most of the other raw materials that go into the car. If components are locally sourced, then expect quality to come down (e.g. look at the Indian Polo's headlamps, beige dashboard...). The only thing significantly cheaper in India is labour, but these days most of the manufacturing process is automated, so that wont make a huge difference.
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Old 11th March 2010, 23:01   #480
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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
I guess a Polo here in Germany costs roughly about 15, 000 Euros. The vehicle is assembled here in Europe (Well, these might not be exactly true but to some extent). I really do not know the rules and norms for manufacturing a car in India. But I certainly do know that the cost of manufacturing in India is far far less than in Europe. This being the case, why should this vehicle cost so much in India? In simple terms it looks like "Indian Made - European priced" but rather I would expect "Indian Made - Indian Priced"
Certainly, you may want to enhance your knowledge on the "rules and norms for manufacturing a car in India". Maruti Suzuki Swift, the car has 90% localisation in India. The Vxi variant of the car we get costs about Rs.4.90lac here in Delhi. The VW Polo trendline costs about 4.9lacs as well. Now VW Polo has about 50% localisation in India as of now. The remaining 50% is being imported which get levied by a 40%+ duty. Now, as you said, the manufacturing of the 50% parts in Europe would be costing VW much more than it does in India, secondly, they are paying import duty on that and still are managing to give you the car for the price of the Swift. More so, Polo is a newer platform compared to the swift. I still haven't compared the built quality of Polo, some more money surely went up there too.

Althought, I do believe that swift's 4 cylinder 1.2 mill is better than the polo's 3 cylinder 1.2, I can bet that the per engine cost of swift's 1.2L engine to Maruti suzuki would be less than that of Polo's 1.2 engine to the VW.

I have compared the Swift vxi with trendline because the only features trendline lacks when compared to swift vxi are real power windows and fog lights (cost about 15k max, definately costs less than half of this to OEMs).

It takes a lot more to localise a car model in countries like India and china without compromising on quality. Thats why VW states German Engineering, Made in India. We all love German car and almost all of us would love to have one of them in our garage. BUT the REALITY is most of us still cannot afford them. Still because, I am sure many of us will be able to afford them in Future but there is still some time before its "INDIA SHINNING" to the fullest.

That said, if the company has taken the effort to provide us the car at the price of a Japanese car, We state that they are ripping us. I know VW's bottom line is profit but thats nothing different from any other company.

It is easy to debate whether the car will be a hit or not, but it is very difficult to conclude. I believe its just too early.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 11th March 2010 at 23:16.
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