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Old 26th April 2010, 14:00   #181
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Originally Posted by SCH View Post
First of all I would like to state that this is a"WAGON"with car like characteristics. I find certain comments from the members very loud. This is the tall boy design which is sold internationally. I think it is a VFM for the price conscious people, which are in a majority .... with the best FE figures of the lot available. For a city hatch where the speed limits are 50 km/hr I believe this is the best Value for Money Hatch.
Well in that case i suggest maruti to bring in that Japanese 660 CC engines in india as well. Atleast people will save on operating cost. And as far as internationally sold,,i think its only india and japan where this is successful. Japan because, they have incentive for buying a 'Kei' car and Indeed WagonR is the best Kei car (For Kei car buying one doesnt need to have a prior certificate of owning a "Car Parking"). India Because It was welcome change from the other practical vehicle the ugly looking first gen Hyundai Santro.

To be fair to Extreme_torque... Even i had the similar feeling about the car and design team of MSIL in perticular...but i am glad to have avoided putting my thoughts on this page

I am sure with only 4 days in launch a lot of people have neither TDed nor have seen the vehicle in flesh..but in no way can one be asked to keep their opinions to themselves having done TD or Not.. The kind of bashing Extreme_torque received from few fellow BHPian leads me to believe of the biased nature of those members.

Lets be fair ....This car is good vehicle and most likely would be a successful. But with newer and better styled Vehicle like Micra, Beat, Polo and Figo coming in market.... with customer preference shifting allthe time towards better designed vehicle....it will be very easy for customer to put this vehicle in boring category.

Good is simply not good enough in this current Indian market.

I still go by the logic of What SidIndica's Mother Suggested.... thats how average Customer might think of this car.

Last edited by anu21v : 26th April 2010 at 14:06.
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Old 26th April 2010, 14:14   #182
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The pricing puts the WagonR right at the level of the Beat and Figo!! I wonder how that will turn out in the sales figures. The difference is around 10-15k per model at most for similar spec in Beat and Figo. And they are genuinly new cars.
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Old 26th April 2010, 14:21   #183
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In a country where Dhilip Chabria is the most well known after market designer of cars , what else can you expect from an Indian design team ? They take an already ugly car and try their max to make it even uglier!

In the all new wagonR the rear seats are supposed to be a major improvement over teh older model. But when i checked it out it was the worst seat i have sat on except maybe the sideways facing benches you see in a SUMO. Even the old M800 had better designed back seats .

The seat is FLAT with no moulding of any sort. No underthigh support nor lateral buttressing on the sides of the bench. The backrest is a little better.

The 2 biggest negatives of the New WagonR have to be
1.The looks
2.The uncomfortable back seat.

The front seat is surprisingly comfortable, more so than the Beat or the Figo because it has the right firmness , support and width.
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Old 26th April 2010, 14:29   #184
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Originally Posted by better4worse View Post
I just don't like the way they have drawn out the car front/engine bay, so much so that it seems odd in the overall design flow (check out the side view to realize it). Even the front bumper is so far drawn out from the wheel well (again with reference to the side view) is. I really think my old Wagon R is much better looking and far more consistent and less quirky in design.
Agreed, to each detail. Its not pretty at all, but I had been a WagonR fan from the day it was launched in India and was expecting much better revamp in terms of styling, which is obviously not the only criteria, but still the overall package matters
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I really hope that MS stops tom-tomming about this 'whole Indian design team' delivering on Indian style quotient and requirements. They have been nigh awful in my book considering their 'body of work'. They started out with the new look Zen (last mods done to slow slung hatch, previous to Zen Estilo introduction), the car simply had no personality/presence. Then, I heard that the Indian design team is also responsible for 'Eeco' which is nearly the same as Verna, an absolute eye sore. I wouldn't put this effort (read the new WagonR) as terrible, but is surely nothing that any car design team would want to boast about.
Did you saw what their team did to A-star as an end product from what they showcased at the Auto-expo, really cant expect too much from those guys
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PS: Slightly , agreed we Indians love a bit of bling (read Chrome side strips, tail lights, front grill)) on our cars, but offlate its just too much for the eye. One reason that put me off the BEAT was the 'Jhatak' chrome effect all over the car. Quirky styling all right but the fact it was all overly accentuated with chrome, just killed it for me! It was almost as if you'd buy an 'item number' for a car, nothing classy about it.
I have booked one and will be receiving it on wednesday, yes it has a little too much of a chrome, but the overall package was just too good to resist.
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Disclaimer: Before anyone beats me to death here and my posts get taken off the thread for no obvious reason, id like to say... " To each ..his own ! .........Peace ! "
tell me your address, atleast i will come to kill you for Beat statement
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Old 26th April 2010, 14:31   #185
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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
In the all new wagonR the rear seats are supposed to be a major improvement over teh older model. But when i checked it out it was the worst seat i have sat on except maybe the sideways facing benches you see in a SUMO. Even the old M800 had better designed back seats .
Go for the kill
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Old 26th April 2010, 14:37   #186
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Hi EDDY/GTO,

Can you please tell me the reason why NMWR is moving to 3 Cylinders? I dont suppose it is more efficient. What do you say?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
What you'll like:

The same successful formula, now improved
A practical value-for-money package
Better road manners, especially urban ride quality
Improved interior space
Precise gear shifts, unlike the previously lousy quality
Optional ABS & Dual Airbags on the VXi variant
Maruti's stellar after-sales quality & network

What you won't:

Higher NVH levels, inherent to 3 cylinder engines. Average low rpm throttle response
Iffy build & interior part quality
Smaller boot compared to the outgoing gen. 180L capacity
Looks are not as contemporary as other recent launches

NOTE: Click any picture to open a larger higher-resolution version in a new window.

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Old 26th April 2010, 14:45   #187
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Let me be a little objective here and compare the old one with the new WagonR and see whats what.

Two major areas that they have improved the new WagonR are the rear seat space and the interiors design (I am not too sure about the quality though). But what have you lost in process.
1) Boot Space -- This was the major USP of the older car simply because it had the biggest boot compared to its footprint. 90% of the WagonR's I see in Delhi have either one or two people inside so a more commodious rear seat is certainly an advantage but not enough to forget the decrease in boot space. The extra legroom is a meager 4 cms and as someone mentioned, the rear seats still arent comfortable enough.
2) The engine -- The older 1.1 litre engine IMHO was a well specified unit. It was unbelievably torquey for its size and power and made it easier to putter around town at a higher gear with no protest from the engine. The new K series engine doesnt gell with the chracter of the WagonR and nor its intended purpose, the biggest minus.
3) I have doubts on its safety aspect. Other competitors are safe enough especially the Beat.
4) Even after using a 1.0 litre K series engine, the ARAI fuel efficiency figures is barely above the Beat's figure. I am sure in the real world, the bigger engined more powerful car will have the fuel efficiency advantage especially on the highways.
5) The quality is still not upto the markk. I was watching the review on TV and the much touted press to open cup holder didnt came out and had to be pushed out, both sides!

So after 10 year of first launching the WagonR, all you get is slightly better looking but less practical interiors and 4 cms of extra legroom and revised front suspension with sub frame (which by the way come in from day 1 in the Santro) . Why is every praising it is beyond me?
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Old 26th April 2010, 15:31   #188
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Default Wagon R a good for City use.

That was a very good review.

With the ABS and Airbag, what is the Ex-show room price of the New WagonR?.

We love WagonR for its practical design. The two important issues, Gear Shifting and Stability were always a problem in the older version. Any improvement on these issues would make this product better for its fans like me.

In crowded and narrow streets, like in Chennai, with good Aircon, no other car can beat Wagon R. Interestingly they have priced it competitively too.
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Old 26th April 2010, 15:41   #189
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Fantastic review there! Its becoming a norm to have high expectations on each review by team bhp. Superb work there.

Wagon R had very good utility in terms of space with cubby holes and the boot. But it was not the best looking car by any means. The new platform carries the same design (read boxy). The parcel tray below the seat is very innovative. Its a good thing that the rear wiper and the defogger is at least becoming a standard on the highest variant in the A2 segment.
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Old 26th April 2010, 15:44   #190
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Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
The difference is around 10-15k per model at most for similar spec in Beat and Figo. And they are genuinly new cars.
Beat is new, Wagon R is new, but Figo = new ? For Indian market, yes, but its basically old generation Fiesta being dumped here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Let me be a little objective here and compare the old one with the new WagonR and see whats what.

1) Boot Space --
2) The engine --
3) I have doubts on its safety aspect. Other competitors are safe enough especially the Beat.
4) Even after using a 1.0 litre K series engine, the ARAI fuel efficiency figures is barely above the Beat's figure. I am sure in the real world, the bigger engined more powerful car will have the fuel efficiency advantage especially on the highways.

So after 10 year of first launching the WagonR, all you get is slightly better looking but less practical interiors and 4 cms of extra legroom and revised front suspension with sub frame (which by the way come in from day 1 in the Santro) . Why is every praising it is beyond me?
1) Agreed, but the positive point is really good interior space.

2) This is one point you are absolutely spot on. I love F and G series units. The K series in K12M form is good, but the three cylinder is not a good choice IMO.
Now look at it from another perspective. The car is a good family car that will also be asked to do duty in city. The engine is just about enough for city driving and for highway driving. FE again is good. The engine might not have that stable idling or quiet nature, but this unit is smooth.
At the end of the day, except the unstable idling ( which is more stable than in A-star ), there is nothing wrong with this motor.

3) This car is sold in Japan since 2008. As we know, Japanese market is highly competitive with cars from Daihatsu ( Toyota owned, now ) giving very stiff competition. I am sure that this car is not at all unsafe as far as crash safety goes. Wagon R is supplied to other manufacturers in Japan under badge engineering. Yes, we dont have the Euroncap rating available, but calling it unsafe if over reaction IMHO.

4) Have you figured in the aerodynamcis ? Wagon R is a practical car with high stance. Its designed for space efficiency where in it has excelled. Beat is not as spacious as Wagon R. On the highways, for sure, Wagon R's FE will suffer if driven over 120-130. Beat on the other hand has better aerodyamics.

Its like comparing Scorpio/Safari FE with Innova.

5) 4 cm theory. Well, sometimes, when the wheel base is extended over 50mm, there is a huge noise made by everyone. Get that figure in mm and that translates to 40mm.

Take for example GC. If the difference is 5mm, its considered as difference between scraping the car and not scrapping the bottom of the car.

I feel you check out the Beat and Wagon R. Wagon R is more practical, with better unit than Beat. Beat sure has more power, but its seems that beat has an un-engineered unit as compared to K10B.

While returnning after TD of Altis, Innova this sunday, I quickly checked out the new Wagon R ( actually I thought that Mahindra showroom is at AS motors just next to Kiran motors ). The space is really good. In Beat one feels claustrophobic, but in Wagon R one feels really good. I am not a very tall person, but built is good. Compared to earlier Wagon R ( which my relative has and I have driven that car even on NE-1 ), the seats are better and space is really good. Beat gets beaten down on comfort here.
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Old 26th April 2010, 16:11   #191
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Beat is new, Wagon R is new, but Figo = new ? For Indian market, yes, but its basically old generation Fiesta being dumped here.
Oh ya ...is this a really new WagonR ...well I think Then lets stop Bashing Figo afterall. All Figo has old, is an old architecture, but i hear the design is completely new and made for india. By that yardstick it is still better than WagonR. Besides since Figo, it is first time launch in india unlike wagonR, it still has some novelty to it.


Quote:

4) Have you figured in the aerodynamcis ? Wagon R is a practical car with high stance. Its designed for space efficiency where in it has excelled. Beat is not as spacious as Wagon R. On the highways, for sure, Wagon R's FE will suffer if driven over 120-130. Beat on the other hand has better aerodyamics.
I agree, for the similar Spec Engine WagonR can never match with any of the competitors because of its worst AeroDynamics, Well lets just say WagonR is not meant for Aerodynamic enthusiasts and is willing to compromise FE on that account, thats is for sake of Space utilization which is good for customer..

Engine to Engine : I would have still preferred 1.1 over this 3 pot 1.0. The 1.1 was unbelievably torqy while having a lower noise level.

Quote:
5) 4 cm theory. Well, sometimes, when the wheel base is extended over 50mm, there is a huge noise made by everyone. Get that figure in mm and that translates to 40mm.

Take for example GC. If the difference is 5mm, its considered as difference between scraping the car and not scrapping the bottom of the car.
So So true... gr8 way of putting it btw. but seriously I thought that 4 cm increase was completely consumed by change in length at engine bay. Someone can highlight.

Quote:
I feel you check out the Beat and Wagon R. Wagon R is more practical, with better unit than Beat. Beat sure has more power, but its seems that beat has an un-engineered unit as compared to K10B.
This I do not agree at all. Any enthusiast will tell you,,, Beat by so many yardsticks seems over engineered. Damn, thats why it is roughly 100 KG higher weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
In Beat one feels claustrophobic, but in Wagon R one feels really good.
overwritten stuff, but considering everyone still likes the Swift so much..it is really a non issue...atleast to me... though would have preferred a better glass area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I am not a very tall person, but built is good. Compared to earlier Wagon R ( which my relative has and I have driven that car even on NE-1 ), the seats are better and space is really good. Beat gets beaten down on comfort here.
WagonR Seats are better than Beat...well really hard to believe that!!!! What i felt while sitting inside beat and what i get from other BHPIans is that Beat Seats quite Hug you, when you are sitting in it. Feel much much comfortable than anyother HB. So if it is really as good or better than beat... i would give credit to MSL.....afterall earlier seats were so hard back seat was really a backbench.

Really hard to understand why we should compare this car, which is high on functionality, with a car like Beat which is high on design aspect. Poles Apart, apple vs orange comparison.

Last edited by anu21v : 26th April 2010 at 16:22.
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Old 26th April 2010, 16:22   #192
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Originally Posted by anu21v View Post
1) but i hear the design is completely new and made for india.

2) So So true... gr8 way of putting it btw. but seriously I thought that 4 cm increase was completely consumed by change in length at engine bay. Someone can highlight.

3) This I do not agree at all. Any enthusiast will tell you,,, Beat by so many yardsticks seems over engineered. Damn, thats why it is roughly 100 KG higher weight.

4) overwritten stuff, but considering everyone still likes the Swift so much..it is really a non issue...atleast to me... though would have preferred a better glass area.

5) WagonR Seats are better than Beat...well really hard to believe that!!!! What i felt while sitting inside beat and what i get from other BHPIans is that Beat Seats quite Hug you, when you are sitting in it. Feel much much comfortable than anyother HB. So if it is really as good or better than beat... i would give credit to MSL.....afterall earlier seats were so hard back seat was really a backbench.
1) Exterior design. Under the skin, car is old.

2) The front was extended. You can notice the change in the front overhang as compared to Wagon R sold in Japan. I am attaching an image of Wagon R sold in Japan.

Image: Note the short front overhang. This is the Wagon R sold in Japan. The newly launched wagon R in India is based on the same platform.
Name:  JapWaggie.jpg
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3) Not so IMHO. The biggest let down is engine. Next, the rear seat space and feel. Beat gets beaten down for space.

Dont just go by weight. Ritz and Swift are heavier than Polo.

4) Exactly.

5) This 4th generation Wagon R is has better seats than the second generation Wagon R.
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Old 26th April 2010, 16:44   #193
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As usual, nice review Eddy. The new Wagon R got better and hope the numbers second that.
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Old 26th April 2010, 18:19   #194
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Why is every praising it is beyond me?
Extreme_Torque : Lets face it...neither are you going to buy the WagonR nor am I. But then, neither are we the target customers. We shouldn't look at every new car from the enthusiasts perspective. Lets think from the POV of the mass market here. Remember, at the end of the day, what every manufacturer wants is 5 figure sales for its hatchback...and not enthusiasts praising the handling.

So, what does the mass market want?

- Trust-worthy "can't go wrong" brand. Check

- Fuel efficiency. Check. It's a 3 cylinder engine and the A-Star is known for its high FE. I can bet you that the new WagonR will be amongst the most FE hatchbacks. It's rather light too.

- Industry leading after-sales service. Check. And the widest dealer / service network to boot.

- Priced well. Check. Lower than all direct competition.

- A car that things do NOT go wrong with. Check.

- Acceptable space for 4, including an improvement on the previous WagonR. Check.

- Better ride quality, and less bumpiness than the ol' Wagon / Santro. Check.

- Acceptable power delivery. Check. The mass market typically says "where are the roads for more power, give us fuel efficiency instead". The gearshift is now better too.

- Good resale? Lets see...light car, good FE, a Maruti and a successful product line. If the previous WagonR is anything to go by, we can safely assume that the new WagonR will enjoy strong residuals too.

Sure, it doesn't have looks that kill (atleast in a good way ), will not burn any roads with its performance and doesn't give you Euro-stability at 130 kph. But you know what, the mass market cares a damn. Sure, the boot is smaller and this is the only single point that the masses would hold against it. On the other hand, the boot has been reduced to increase rear space. It's clearly either or here...you can't have more room at the back, and a big boot for 3.25 lakhs. As the opening post says "The same formula, only improved". Lets give some credit to Maruti for knowing exactly how to fill those 11,000 homes a month that the WagonR did. It's an open market in which 11,000 car buyers a month choose the WagonR. My first cousin is so satisfied with his WagonR that, for a 5.5 lakh rupee hatchback, he won't be looking anywhere else but the Swift. And yes, he does intend to retain the WagonR for another couple of years.

Last edited by GTO : 26th April 2010 at 18:27.
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Old 26th April 2010, 18:32   #195
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Default My 2 cents

Today, I personally got to experience a Blue blue-eyed boy and, even after the bouquets and brickbats it received over the course of this thread,I think we all ought to agree that it is an EXCEPTIONAL city car. The neat & utilitarian interior, the laid back back seats and the whole stance of the car is Comfortable yet Efficient to say the least.

At this juncture, I also urge you to realise that this car has not been marketed appropriately. Believe me, however absurd this sounds, this car is an absolute hit among the aged.I found most of the people of the Senior Citizen category singing praises of this car.Rear ingress egress is an absolute breeze in this one.It is the first time I have seen that level of kit in an MUL car at that price point, and they deserve a pat on the back for that.

Also, all of us(including me) have addressed it as a 'CAR' when it is in fact a 'MICRO-VAN', a utility vehicle, it was never actually meant to be thrown around corners unless of course,the marketing team at MUL went overboard.It is also not the one in which you go around collecting the ladies' phone numbers.

Overall,don't expect this boy to try to usurp the position of our very-own Boy racer Beat or the Fabulous Funtastic Figo, but it sure will be a hit among the middle aged/senior folks.

Don't judge by the pics, the seats are surprisingly comfortable.
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