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Old 26th April 2010, 18:59   #196
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I have just came back after having a sit at the back seat. Although nice and roomy and relatively OK under thigh support (I am 5 5"), the seats lack any sort of contours as mentioned by someone earlier. Seat back and base are as flat as they can be and this was the top end VXi with ABS + Airbags!
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Old 26th April 2010, 19:05   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Extreme_Torque : Lets face it...neither are you going to buy the WagonR nor am I. But then, neither are we the target customers. We shouldn't look at every new car from the enthusiasts perspective. Lets think from the POV of the mass market here. Remember, at the end of the day, what every manufacturer wants is 5 figure sales for its hatchback...and not enthusiasts praising the handling.

So, what does the mass market want?

- Trust-worthy "can't go wrong" brand. Check

- Fuel efficiency. Check. It's a 3 cylinder engine and the A-Star is known for its high FE. I can bet you that the new WagonR will be amongst the most FE hatchbacks. It's rather light too.

- Industry leading after-sales service. Check. And the widest dealer / service network to boot.

- Priced well. Check. Lower than all direct competition.

- A car that things do NOT go wrong with. Check.

- Acceptable space for 4, including an improvement on the previous WagonR. Check.

- Better ride quality, and less bumpiness than the ol' Wagon / Santro. Check.

- Acceptable power delivery. Check. The mass market typically says "where are the roads for more power, give us fuel efficiency instead". The gearshift is now better too.

- Good resale? Lets see...light car, good FE, a Maruti and a successful product line. If the previous WagonR is anything to go by, we can safely assume that the new WagonR will enjoy strong residuals too.

Sure, it doesn't have looks that kill (atleast in a good way ), will not burn any roads with its performance and doesn't give you Euro-stability at 130 kph. But you know what, the mass market cares a damn. Sure, the boot is smaller and this is the only single point that the masses would hold against it. On the other hand, the boot has been reduced to increase rear space. It's clearly either or here...you can't have more room at the back, and a big boot for 3.25 lakhs. As the opening post says "The same formula, only improved". Lets give some credit to Maruti for knowing exactly how to fill those 11,000 homes a month that the WagonR did. It's an open market in which 11,000 car buyers a month choose the WagonR. My first cousin is so satisfied with his WagonR that, for a 5.5 lakh rupee hatchback, he won't be looking anywhere else but the Swift. And yes, he does intend to retain the WagonR for another couple of years.
I second GTO, agreed that the WagonR may not bee a looker but it is high on utility for those who intend to buy this car. We may discuss at lengths as enthusiasts, but at the end of the day, the buyers who buy the small cars (who are generally 1st time buyers) look for a car with good cost, reliability, fuel efficiency & A.S.S. & resale value. Most of the factors like boot-size, ride-quality, seats, etc are secondary when a small family has to choose between few finalised options. (BTW, I have penned down our family's cirteria when we purchased the Santro Xing. It was the enthusiast in me who pointed out these minute differences to my parents).

Last edited by CARDEEP : 26th April 2010 at 19:06. Reason: missed out one point
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Old 26th April 2010, 19:26   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Extreme_Torque : Lets face it...neither are you going to buy the WagonR nor am I. But then, neither are we the target customers. We shouldn't look at every new car from the enthusiasts perspective. Lets think from the POV of the mass market here. Remember, at the end of the day, what every manufacturer wants is 5 figure sales for its hatchback...and not enthusiasts praising the handling.

So, what does the mass market want?

- Trust-worthy "can't go wrong" brand. Check

- Fuel efficiency. Check. It's a 3 cylinder engine and the A-Star is known for its high FE. I can bet you that the new WagonR will be amongst the most FE hatchbacks. It's rather light too.

- Industry leading after-sales service. Check. And the widest dealer / service network to boot.

- Priced well. Check. Lower than all direct competition.

- A car that things do NOT go wrong with. Check.

- Acceptable space for 4, including an improvement on the previous WagonR. Check.

- Better ride quality, and less bumpiness than the ol' Wagon / Santro. Check.

- Acceptable power delivery. Check. The mass market typically says "where are the roads for more power, give us fuel efficiency instead". The gearshift is now better too.

- Good resale? Lets see...light car, good FE, a Maruti and a successful product line. If the previous WagonR is anything to go by, we can safely assume that the new WagonR will enjoy strong residuals too.

Sure, it doesn't have looks that kill (atleast in a good way ), will not burn any roads with its performance and doesn't give you Euro-stability at 130 kph. But you know what, the mass market cares a damn. Sure, the boot is smaller and this is the only single point that the masses would hold against it. On the other hand, the boot has been reduced to increase rear space. It's clearly either or here...you can't have more room at the back, and a big boot for 3.25 lakhs. As the opening post says "The same formula, only improved". Lets give some credit to Maruti for knowing exactly how to fill those 11,000 homes a month that the WagonR did. It's an open market in which 11,000 car buyers a month choose the WagonR. My first cousin is so satisfied with his WagonR that, for a 5.5 lakh rupee hatchback, he won't be looking anywhere else but the Swift. And yes, he does intend to retain the WagonR for another couple of years.
Very Well said GTO, We as an Enthusiast tend to become somewhat inclined amongst our discussion,

The point to note here is that the WagonR was and would never be a enthusiastic's piece of cake, it was never designed that way. For Enthusiastic drivers, Maruti already has a well known product in their kitty.

It was always a MAV, (Multi Activity vehicle), or more so a Utility city car designed for Indian Families kept in mind. IMO, the people outside of our forum dont really care about cylinders, all they want is good FE and decent punch from the engine which I am sure the 67 bhp motor is well suited for.

Yes, the lower boot space might put off by some people, but the advantages are far counted than the this disadvantage, people would go overwhelming at the Interiors, Rear Leg space, good FE, and overall package, they might overlook the boot space factor.

Lets try to see it this way, A-Star did not fire the sales charts more because of its rear bench than because of the boot space, similar story for Beat, although an excellent product but again the rear bench is low on space.

Probably, Maruti should go back to their oldest campaign for WagonR and call this vehicle again as a MAV
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Old 26th April 2010, 20:03   #199
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Can anyone throw some light on how the folding back seat in a wagonR works .
Is it a 1 step fold with the seat back filling up half the boot or is it a 2 stage fold as in the santro/spark where you get a perfectly flat boot ?

I think the basic backseat is a marketing ploy from MSIL . When you completely revamp a car it doesn't take much to include a couple of pieces of shaped foam to improve the seats .

Basically what they are doing is telling the customer " For x amount of cash you get this much. You want better contoured seats spend another 30-40 thousand and get a Ritz! @#$#$

I sincerely hope soem company comes along and gives them a beating to change their attitude. But i don't see that happening in the foreseeable future!
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Old 26th April 2010, 20:08   #200
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All is well and good as far as FE, space, low maintenance, and *** are considered.

But I expect another version of this new Wagon-R with the following:

The Eeco's 1.2L G-series engine
An extra width of 30 cm
An extra length of 20 cm
A boot space of 250 litres
No exterior design change

And looks stretched like this:
Attached Images
 

Last edited by romeomidhun : 26th April 2010 at 20:24.
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Old 26th April 2010, 21:53   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
All is well and good as far as FE, space, low maintenance, and *** are considered.

But I expect another version of this new Wagon-R with the following:

The Eeco's 1.2L G-series engine
An extra width of 30 cm
An extra length of 20 cm
A boot space of 250 litres
No exterior design change

And looks stretched like this:
Your stretch looks fantastic, yes, the Wagon R would look really good with these propotions.
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Old 26th April 2010, 21:59   #202
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Great job by Maruti. Why mess with a winning formula?

Wagon R occupies a narrow and specific niche. If they make is less tall and give it more rounded shape, then its too similar to A-star, Estillo and Alto. If they make it bigger and put a 1.2 then what the difference between it and the Ritz?

Duo version is urgently needed however. Also the reclining rear seats from the original version would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
All is well and good as far as FE, space, low maintenance, and *** are considered.

But I expect another version of this new Wagon-R with the following:

The Eeco's 1.2L G-series engine
An extra width of 30 cm
An extra length of 20 cm
A boot space of 250 litres
No exterior design change

And looks stretched like this:
Its exists and its called a RITZ !!
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Old 26th April 2010, 23:07   #203
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Ok. First things first, It is a wagon and will remain a wagon and there is no shame in it. It was conceptaliszed like this only. The biggest grouse ( the gear shift) has been addressed, so won't be that bad as it was earlier ( to drive only)

Secondly, why every one is comparing it to Beat and Figo. IMHO it should be compared to Spark ( Eddy you missed this one) and Santro. Because most of the people who are buying Beats are buying the top end Lt versions which is nearly into 4.5 lacs category while most of the Wagon r We see on the roads are LXI trims and that i think will remain the trend more so because MS are now offering front power windows on the Lxi ( which they didn't earlier).

Many of the Wagon R i used to see were running on CNG these days thanks to its boot size,this advantage seems to be going now. One of my friend who bought a Beat upgrading from a Wagon R ( yes i consider it a upgrade) always missed the big boot of the wagon r, sure won't miss that now.

One more thing, the Vxi model in the print Ad has five wheel nuts. Am i the only one to notice that my eyes are playing upon me? anyone..
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:47   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCause View Post

At this juncture, I also urge you to realise that this car has not been marketed appropriately. Believe me, however absurd this sounds, this car is an absolute hit among the aged.I found most of the people of the Senior Citizen category singing praises of this car.Rear ingress egress is an absolute breeze in this one.It is the first time I have seen that level of kit in an MUL car at that price point, and they deserve a pat on the back for that.
.
India having one of the largest number of young people in the world, i don't think Maruti is going to scare them off by advertising how convenient the car is for the elderly.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:59   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
All is well and good as far as FE, space, low maintenance, and *** are considered.

But I expect another version of this new Wagon-R with the following:

The Eeco's 1.2L G-series engine
An extra width of 30 cm
An extra length of 20 cm
A boot space of 250 litres
No exterior design change

And looks stretched like this:
The engine could be the KB series. The length to be below 4m.
+ minimum 4 speed automatic gear, ACC, sliding & reclining rear seat, and GC of minimum 175cm.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:14   #206
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After their great ZEN - MH410, Maruti's designs are not 100% accepted by the mass. All their models some how or other have design problems. But this Wagon R will continue to sell on its pure merit which is very well there for the past 10 years.
@romeomidhun - Good idea from your side.
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:26   #207
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I think, Maruti has got it right again. Maruti knows the market pulse, when Ritz was launched everyone dismissed it for it's looks, but then Maruti knew it would win accolades due to the full package (engine+interiors etc). Eeco is slowly creeping into the market, Kizashi is on it's way (atleast I would like to believe that it is), A-Star exporting good numbers, Alto still selling, M800 phased out with no investments.
Coming to the new Wagon R:
It is an all round improvement than the previous installment.
- A New platform with a new engine
- Radical changes compared with the old version yet carries the design DNA as the previous (like the Indica Vista and Indica)
- Some cool features (ABS, AirBags, two-tone interiors, Audio etc.,)
- It still goes with the standard Maruti-way of thinking - you would need this for what you pay and that's what a normal car buyer needs.
Subtle points:
- 'Blue eyed boy' - just looks like a marketing gimmick
- Website looks cool
- Flat bed reclining (would be a trend setter for hatch backs)
- Tricky marketing of luggage space in the website.
- IMO, Maruti should have got the same facial-look of the Jap model. The Indian version looks more Estilo-ish and I would prefer the Jap modeled head lamps, grill and tail lights and styling.

As told by GTO, this is aimed at mass-market. Those first-time buyers who do not prefer A-Star for it's inside space, Ritz/Swift for the price tag, Alto for it's small and age-old looks, yet would like to stick with the brand Maruti (for obvious reasons). The market contains thousands of prospective buyers like these.

Remember, Mr Kattar's statement that only some 4 % (I could be wrong with the number) of Indians have cars and Maruti wants to penetrate into the remainder.

For me, the new Wagon R works.

BBKK
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Old 27th April 2010, 13:23   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Its exists and its called a RITZ !!
But Ritz altogether is in a higher segment, and costs a good 50K extra.

With the use of 1.2L G-series engine, they can keep the cost down (compared to 1.0L or 1.2L K-series engines). So, we may get a bigger 'Wagon-R-wide' with the same price of the current one!

Advantages of the current Wagon-R:
1. Good mileage
2. New K-series engine
3. Good passenger space
4. Average boot space
5. Easy to handle in city

Advantages of the proposed 'Wagon-R-wide':
1. Average mileage
2. G-series engine with more power (73BHP)
3. Even more passenger space
4. Very good boot space
5. Better highway driving dynamics
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Old 27th April 2010, 13:28   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post

....'Wagon-R-wide':
If Maruti were TATA, then they would stretched the same left, right, centre and release W, XW, L, models in the lines of Indigo CS, Indigo Salon.

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Old 27th April 2010, 14:02   #210
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hello everyone.

Had been to Indus Motors yesterday to have a look at the wagon-r. My mom, dad and me were eager to know about the new waggy as we are having some plans to buy a new car. What i felt has been penned down :
1) The overall quality has come a long long way, but still no where near the hyundai's and chevy's. And the panel gap between the front fender and bonnet made me.

2) Get into the car and in the first go we can get to know that space has really increased.. The driver seat has a really long travel. And pretty good driving position, but felt the earlier wagonr' s driving position was more commanding.

3) The cupholders provided at the passenger side did not close completely when i tried and were of below average quality. And the A/c vents , both on the driver and passenger sides, are too flimsy! When i tried to open the vent, uh, I was sure i will have to pay the showroom guys for a replacement! I am sure some plastic items available in the footpath have better quality than these pathetic vents. However they can be rotated all around! :-)

4) The rear doors open almost 90 degress, hence very comfortable ingress.

5) Now about the seats:- They are a lot better than the previous waggy's. The underthigh support has increased very much, especially the rear seats. But i felt that the cushioning was very thin. Seats were a bit hard. But the rear seats recess angle was really comfy and not very upright as in the older wagon-r. Also i found the rear knee room to have increased a lot compared to the older model. Even with the driver seat pulled completely back, my mom was pretty happy with the knee room.

6) Another niggle i found was that the centre console fouls with the front passenger's knee. That means one cannot sit properly without pulling the seat for around 30-50% of the seat travel( My height is around 5'8 right now).

7) Boot space has reduced drastically i would say. After having a look at the wagon-r's boot, when i had a look at estilo's, it looked extremely huge! lol. But still split ford seats increase the versatility.

8) Btw, there is a lot of free space between the engine and the grille( i guess Eddy's picture explains it)


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/137420.jpg

This is all i have to say. The Sales guy said he will call me when the test drive vehicle arrives. And he had called today to inform me the on road prices. So will update once i take a test drive.

Btw, if anyone has any questions to ask, or want to know something specific, i will surely try to answer them( as much as i can and i know! ) since i had seen the car.
thank you :-)
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