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Old 14th October 2010, 10:21   #196
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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
Many have mentioned this - Aria is NOT to compete with Innova or Xylo. Its the feature set beyond Fortuner [except the engine spec]
Features alone can make a car compete with a segment higher? A Linea T-Jet has better equipment than an Accord. I hope Fiat doesn't bring out a 20 lakh variant tomorrow.

I appreciate bells & whistles but reiterate they do NOT make the car. It's the icing on the cake...but the actual cake is the car (size, space, ride, handling, performance, quality etc.).

Exterior fit & finish = Comparable to cheaper UVs
Interior space = Comparable to Safari, then Innova (not a 2X difference)
Interior quality = Innova is superior
Outright performance = Comparable to Safari, Scorpio etc.
Ride & handling = Comparable to Innova. Innova ride way more composed on the highway
Looks & image = We will agree that SUVs have aspirational value, but few MUVs do.
Durability = I have enough 1,50,000 km Innovas who have proven their long-term reliability, and look forward to reports on Arias with 6 figures on the odometer. As things stand today, based on a 15 year history, we can safely presume which T is the more reliable.

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GTO, I really liked your Fortuner review and would have booked one if it was not closed then.
Thank you. If I needed an SUV, I would have booked the Fortuner too. I don't need the space, and find sedans way more satisfying to drive on the highway.

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But, with all due respect, I feel, your review on Aria is biased
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you have strong, closed mind towards TATA billing something for 15+ Lakhs.
No offense, but either you haven't read my review completely or are biased yourself. Rather than blinding considering "how much would I pay for this brand", I objectively review what the car is offering for the price. I do consider the Jazz to be severely overpriced, as also the Mercedes C Class & BMW 3 series (please look up my many comments on the same). You would probably agree that a three pointed star is worth 30 lakhs, or the mighty H deserves 8 lakhs...I do NOT. Again, I am stating my opinion on what THE CAR is offering for the price. The Aria is an MUV, and I'm not seeing any substantial advantage in utility over other options, nor am I seeing the kind of finesse, superiority, quality and after-sales that one expects from an 18 lakh rupee product. Mind you, I am an owner of a Tata vehicle and have 3 - 4 years of experience in how their dealerships / service outlets operate. Last I checked, there aren't any Aria-specific dealerships or service bays. Tata has so far only stated that they've provided "additional training".

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and it shows up in every corner of your comments
Please note that my entire review was compiled BEFORE the Aria's pricing got announced. The review would have been the same, whether the price was 8 lakhs or 18. Only difference would have been two paragraphs; one in the second post, and then the summary post at the end.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My opinion is that the Aria is severely overpriced, yours obviously isn't.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...and a huge carryover in design cues from its smaller sibling!Attachment 438392
Lol! Nice picture. Sure drives the family look point home.

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Originally Posted by hemantwaghe View Post
Anyone is having sales Numbers of Toyota Landcruiser ar 85+L VS sales Number of Audi Q7 and Q5 and Porsche Cayanne
From August 2010:

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- The Q5 is now India's favourite premium SUV. Need proof? This mini-Q7 sold about as many as all of its European competitors. Q5 = 59, Q7 = 17 (numbers dipped after the cheaper Q5 was introduced), Mercedes GL Class = 23 and Mercedes M Class = 14. The 50-lakh rupee Prado was picked by 15 customers last month, while the Volvo XC90 had 9 buyers. Porsche did about 3 Cayennes. BMW's SUVs don't enjoy the same success as their sedan siblings. BMW X5 and X3 sold 3 & 1 units respectively. The Mitsubishi Montero & 1 crore rupee Landcruiser found absolutely no takers at all.

The strangely styled & positioned BMW X6 cross-over sold 17 units.
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Originally Posted by Manas View Post
Why would a manufacturer "want to" show a twin exhaust system in an inline engine car ?
Well, it does look cool and brings character to the rear.

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IN a car this size, Blindspot mirrors would've been better.
Not really. The super-wide mirrors do a fantastic job.

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Originally Posted by coldice4u View Post
review was a bit confusing as to if he recommends the car or not.
Tell me what your requirements & driving patterns are, I'll reply with a for / against recommendation note.

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But i just love the premium lustrous paint finish on the car. Such a lustre would not look out of place on cars that cost thrice as much.
Tata has always had A+ paint jobs. Even the one on the Nano is great for the price, while the Indicas / Indigos have worn premium paint from day 1.

Last edited by GTO : 14th October 2010 at 10:24.
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Old 14th October 2010, 10:31   #197
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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Wow!! What thought process?!!!

Anyway, my brother booked the Aria. Let me give you his rationale.

He found it to be the most comfortable, safest and 'family friendly' vehicle among all the options in Aria's price range. I concur.

About reliability and such: His logic was that TML has more ***'s and ASC's than all other competitors that he had shortlisted, in his region of travel : Punjab & NCR. And we have had beautiful experiences with 4 different Tata cars since 2000. So , he is pretty much putting his money where his mouth is.
Nice to know perspective of an actual buyer rather then people who are not in market currently for this kind of usage and price band.

Did your brother booked after a test drive or without it ?
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Old 14th October 2010, 10:33   #198
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^^ GTO, I again appreciate you responding to each of my and others' comments with your view. Thanks for taking time to do so. Good job.
I really liked your conclusion on "agreeing on disagreement" and to me, its a fair agreement
Talking of "..and it shows up in every corner of your comments" from me, I didnt mean your review, but your responses to most of the questions/comments raised by other BHPians. Anyway, its all good.

Cheers
Prem.
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Old 14th October 2010, 10:53   #199
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Nice review GTO - the quality keeps improving with EVERY review which shows the incremental homework you do between each of these reviews which is a good thing..

T-bhp reviews are now CLEARLY leagues ahead of ANY auto magazine reviews for the quality, depth and un-biased views..

Enough has been said about the ARIA and its positioning. I am quite curious as to how many takers there would be for the TATA ARIA at this price - of course the market will determine that.

Many members feel a separate brand could have been created for such "highend" models but I think TATA did NOT DO THAT for the right reasons

1) why waste money on a separate brand when there is clearly no announced pipeline of PREMIUM products across atleast 2-3 segments to capitalise on the brand building costs
2) what about separate sales/service channels ? - when the regular TATA dealerships are not in the best of shape, why waste time on a separate channel
3) the auto market is booming now and I feel auto companies are better placed launching more PRODUCTS across segments and "take a chance" rather than build brands ( this I say especially for established companies ) . A new player of course has to build up the brand.

Knowing TATA's pricing strategy, I am PRETTY SURE, if sales dont pick up, TATA will have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM, revising the price downwards.

THIS WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE IF A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT BUILDING A SEPARATE BRAND.

in that sense, i beleive potential ARIA buyers to wait and watch for price cuts maybe 3-6 months down the line from launch

all the best to TATA
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Old 14th October 2010, 12:04   #200
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Is ARIA there in any showroom in Bangalore? Just for display at least.
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Old 14th October 2010, 12:04   #201
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Originally Posted by narayan View Post
in that sense, i beleive potential ARIA buyers to wait and watch for price cuts maybe 3-6 months down the line from launch

all the best to TATA
Well key question is will the price cut be for the same versions or rolling out cheaper variants with lower specs such as 4X2 , No Airbags ,No ABS, No climate control single AC model. If the watering down of specification/features to cut price happens then aspiration to move up in higher segment will be futile.
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Old 14th October 2010, 12:16   #202
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Originally Posted by EARTHed View Post
Is ARIA there in any showroom in Bangalore? Just for display at least.
I think it is on display at Prerana Motors, near Agara Lake (HSR layout), you could confirm with them
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Old 14th October 2010, 12:49   #203
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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Sorry for being picky, but Infiniti is Nissan's luxury marque. Mazda's luxury marques were Eunos and Amati (both were short-lived forays; the latter was almost still-born!).
My bad. The mention of Mazda was a Freudian slip: probably the only Japanese manufacturer not to get the rebadging strategy right!

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Originally Posted by rangarx View Post
You can not re badge a Tata in India. Afterall, those Hodas were re-badged in a country which was not known of any home-=grown Hondas. but that is not the case for Tata.
Agreed but you can create an aura around a premium product. Take Tanishq for example: everyone knows its a Tata product but it is not branded as such, is it? Would you buy "Tata jewellery"?
Am not suggesting a blind aping of what other carmakers have done, but if Tata is serious about making it big in the premium segment, they should probably start by making the clientele feel exclusive: if that means separate dealerships, a superior service experience etc., so be it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Rather than blinding considering "how much would I pay for this brand", I objectively review what the car is offering for the price. I do consider the Jazz to be severely overpriced, as also the Mercedes C Class & BMW 3 series (please look up my many comments on the same)...The Aria is an MUV, and I'm not seeing any substantial advantage in utility over other options, nor am I seeing the kind of finesse, superiority, quality and after-sales that one expects from an 18 lakh rupee product.
Check and mate. Exactly what I've been fumbling around trying to say. My biggest grouse is that the Aria DOES NOT LOOK LIKE AN 18 LAC CAR. It looks like an overgrown Indica at best, a wannabe Innova at worst and it really sucks that you have to view it "at some angles" to find it attractive. Agreed the interiors are packed with all kinds of gizmos but in all honesty, you can do that too any car, if you have the money and the inclination.
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Old 14th October 2010, 12:58   #204
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I saw a Black Aria 2 nights ago lurking around one of those expensive houses on 8th Main road in Koramangala. Must have come for a test drive. Yes it does look really lovely.
And todays paper article also is a good one and the pictures also look lovely.
Must go and see this vehicle.

But the pricing for the top end version - at nearly 20 lacs!! Very expensive indeed.

With the Rs 3.2 lac differential between the Top End Tata Aria and the Fortuner, I believe that many people will prefer to make that stretch and acquire a Fortuner.

I would very seriously consider other proven imported/ foreign brand vehicles at that kind of pricing!

While Aria is a good effort by Tata, I somehow cannot bring myself to trust them so implicitly so as to be able to pay such money for what is after all an indigenous vehicle - especially given the choices available nowadays.

Same thing goes for Mahindra. Whenever their W201 comes in, I am sure it will also be fiddling about at roughly these price bands. And I would feel the same as I have written above.

If the Skoda Yeti comes along at pricing which is similar to what's been announced by Tata for the Aria, then I think that is pretty much a slow- go too on account of other options being available at that price.

And if the Santa Fe comes in at pricing higher than this, I dont think the Indian consumer is going to readily accept a Hyundai over a Toyota in terms of brand value.




Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
Saw the Aira in the metal in Concorde Motors, Bangalore. It just drove in today.

Sales men dont have the facts on the vehicle. They are yet to be trained and were shooting in the dark
3rd row is pathetic
The vehicle does look brilliant
Just wanted to needle them so asked if its AWD - they said it was switchable to 4x2 and then started searching for the lever / knob.

Bangalore Prices (No Typos) From their rate sheet
Model Ex ----- Showroom ---On Road
Aira Pleasure --12,96,310 -----15,97,670
Aria Prestige --14,56,824 ------17,93,411
Aria Pride ------15,57,710 ------19,16,435

Has anyone bought/booked the Aria on the Forum. I would like to hear the rational behind it other than "Be indian buy Indian"!
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Old 14th October 2010, 13:03   #205
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correct rkg.
I have it on very good authority that one cannot try and retro fit ABS, EBD, Airbags, ESP, Traction Control etc etc etc in a vehicle NOT designed to have these things however much money one may have or wish to spend.
My Scorpio LX cannot be retrofitted with what I would wish to have - ABS, EBD, Traction Control and Airbags. Hence if I really want all those safety features I shall have to sell the existing vehicle and buy a new one which has all these things.

But I do also feel that the Tata Aria is really expensive.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
I think one can not add ABS, EBD, ESP, Traction control, Cruise control, Air Bags, disk brakes, etc on their own, even if he/she has tons of money and inclination

Kindly correct me if iam wrong
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Old 14th October 2010, 13:52   #206
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This post is mostly OT but here goes.

Since I haven't seen / ridden the Aria yet I can't comment precisely on how its interiors really are or how good the car is in feel. Looking at the pics surely is impressive still. The car is feature loaded, looks good and imposing to me.

The pricing is overpriced if you buy this car coupled with the Tata buying experience / servicing.
I wouldn't buy a car this pricey and then be treated with a lacklustre / i dont care attitude later on. Service is average at best and attitude is below average.

If they are pitching this as their currently most upmarket and premium car, the packaging and experience has to be pleasing.

My dad has an Indica Lxi V2 and the car eventually grew on us. It has its problems and refinement issues but that no longer is irritating. The car is reliable and after 6 years of ownership its still likeable. Tata has improved leaps since then and they are getting there. I can only hope that this car is niggle free, but since I don't know what's underneath it or how good is the QC, that entirely will tell in the time to come. Tata should not 'test' this car on the first buyers. That would be a serious negative.

However what still irritates is the nonchalant attitude of the dealership and 'totally not interested' in giving a premium feel whenever you are there at the dealership / svc centre to address an issue etc etc.

Tata should make every Aria buyer feel special right from the booking till delivery and post delivery.
Beyond that the ownership experience should also be greatly paid attention to, till the point when the car is sold.

Even if its been an year, if the buyer walks in with an issue they should be given utmost importance rather than being treated as a goat already been ensnared. Considering that Tata with this kinda pricing isn't aiming mass volumes, it isn't impossible to follow up on every Aria that will be sold.

- The typical selling attitude must be taken away, as if the sales person wants to lure in as many goats as possible. Even if its just an inquiry, the person should be treated with finesse. I do not see that in any of the Tata dealerships in Ahmedabad where they are just interested in selling the car if they can.

- The person responsible for showing customers around the car should know what that car is underneath and out and should be confident in what they are uttering.

- Have separate space for the Aria rather than putting it alongside the other cars there. A separate lounge / partition / lighting would help.

-Follow up buyers with calls asking for their reviews and rate the car, ask for their personal opinion.

-Follow up after servicing on how the car is behaving, and the follow up must be done from some central agency than the dealership themselves. Feedback should be seriously taken and not replied with diplomatic / evasive answers.

I wouldn't mind paying more for a car than what its truly worth If the experience of owning that car is delightful from the point I sign the cheque till the car is sold off after (x)years.

Even if the Aria is rocksteady reliable and has exhaustive list of features but the buying / ownership experience is shoddy then it ruins the premium feel that car should be portraying and that kind would ruin Tata projecting themselves as a premium market car maker.

Last edited by Xeno : 14th October 2010 at 13:59.
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Old 14th October 2010, 14:17   #207
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I dont think you are going OT at all
What you've said is absolutely bang on.

If Tata wants to charge a premium price, then let the product, the sales experience, after sales service and every single related field be as premium as the price.


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Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
This post is mostly OT but here goes.

I wouldn't mind paying more for a car than what its truly worth If the experience of owning that car is delightful from the point I sign the cheque till the car is sold off after (x)years.

Even if the Aria is rocksteady reliable and has exhaustive list of features but the buying / ownership experience is shoddy then it ruins the premium feel that car should be portraying and that kind would ruin Tata projecting themselves as a premium market car maker.
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Old 14th October 2010, 14:43   #208
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Which vehicle, do you think is more overpriced? The Aria or the Fortuner?
Personally, I think the Aria is more overpriced. The Fortuner provided the best package amongst 20 lakh SUVs, while Toyota - despite its brand - priced it cheaper than the Pajero, Captiva etc. If anything, the Fortuner made other 20 lakh SUVs look overpriced (precisely why the others corrected their MRP overnight). Not to say the Fortuner's perfect...it desperately needs rear disc brakes, USB / AUX and telescopic steering to make the package complete.

Leaving my opinion aside, the market has already delivered its verdict on the Fortuner's pricing. The vehicle met with 3 - 4 times its initially projected demand, has a wait list a full year after launch, and has sold more than ANY 20 lakh rupee vehicle in India has. Yup, it's a game changer.

Did the "T" badge on the hood have something to do with it? Of course it did. But that kind of brand recognition wasn't built overnight. It tooks decades of providing thoroughly reliable, no-nonsense, vehicles to get there. Maybe other brands ought to follow suit in that direction.

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
At Rs.17L+ I would want the 2.2L motor in a different (more powerful) spec from the Safari.
Absolutely, I made exactly this comment as part of my review. There had to be a differentiator for the asking price...perhaps a 160 - 170 BHP mill?

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Being it a Tata product i am proud of it.
I'm extremely proud of the progress that the Tata Engineering Department has made. Equally, I am miffed at the business & strategy dudes who closed on this pricing.

They are two entirely different departments. I agree with one, can't see eye to eye with the other.

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
I guess that's what a crossover is supposed to be - the territory between a MUV & a SUV.
Though my understanding of crossovers is limited, all crossovers till date have been monocoques, based on a sedan platform, and look (mostly) like SUVs. If we go by the absolute meaning of a crossover, the Aria isn't one. For one, it's a body-on-frame. Second, it's....well....an MUV that also looks like one!

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Originally Posted by Manas View Post
TML has been working on the (now)Aria for at least 5 years now. The NPI (New Product Introduction) for Aria would have started way back then. We all agree upon the fact that the product is non-competitively priced, however, TML (due to whatever reasons) has invested more than double the time it is taken internationally to introduce new platforms.
Not to nitpick, but since you brought up development time, Tata began work on the Aria in mid-2006. Hence, it's 4 years.

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Which would be more comfortable to drive, and give joy - assuming the interior looks also matter? Fortuner or Aria? For the joy of driving (city and highways no OTR)
The Aria is more comfortable within the city, Fortuner is too bumpy. On the highway, neither is settled. In terms of driving, the Fortuner is way more fun to drive (and quicker too).

However, if you don't need the additional space, I'd say NEITHER! Please consider a premium sedan. The sedan will be:

- A superior performer, by a h-u-g-e margin
- Way better handler and deliver 3X better dynamics
- Superior braking capability
- Plusher ride quality. The Aria & Fortuner are both, unsettled, at speed
- More efficient

And lastly, a sedan will be 10X more rewarding to drive than an SUV / MUV / Crossover, whether its the expressway or your favourite ghat section!
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Old 14th October 2010, 14:47   #209
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Great review, gents! The car definitely is where Tata needs to be in terms of finesse. This car- although will not set the sales charts on fire due to its price, is sure to herald the beginning of quality improvement across Tata's future product range.
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Old 14th October 2010, 16:02   #210
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
So anyone plonking his money down on the Aria would only be doing so because he/she is patriotic.....surely a little far fetched ??
I dont see any other reason to shell out so much for a New product from Tata. Would you not rather put down the money for a more reliable Toyota?

A Xylo owner asked a Mahindra dealer aren't you worried about the new Aria. He said at that pricing its no competition to the Xylo.

Something we all know - but even the market is buzzing with the same thoughts.
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