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Old 14th October 2010, 23:28   #226
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SST -

AWD adds to safety (especially for those who drive enthusiastically), I would not switch off AWD at any time even if it meant 15% saving let alone 5%. One never know which urgent manuver (rain, oil slick, sand gravel on road etc.) one may need to take and AWD would definately assist in grip and stability along with ESP, TC etc.

ALL
It would make an interesting observation to add / subtract value (cost) for each extra feature (including the mechanical bits like engine power, AWD, ESP, TC, Auto lights, wipers, wheel size, Sat Nav, 6 Airbags, cruise control etc... that the Aria provides over/below the innnova / fortuner and see where it comes in value terms without giving extra points for perceived reliability, resale and brand pull initially. It would let one compare costs and show us if a vehicle is actually overpriced. We may perceive a feature to not be require, but it does come at a cost even if we dont desire it.

Am seriously considering both the Fortuner and Aria - Pricing and Availability go massively in favour of the Aria initially, and Exterior looks and Service in favour of the Fortuner, but other tangibles too need to be considered.
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Old 14th October 2010, 23:38   #227
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
But that does not take away form the fact that the Borg Warner "Torque on Demand" AWD that's installed in the Aria is utterly unnecessary and just adds to cost, weight, complexity and crowding at the service centres.
Agree with the rest, but Crowding at the SC? It has just been launched!

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Tata themselves silently acknowledge the fact by providing a switch to change over to 4x2, but no switch to turn off ESP, which every enthusiastic driver would love to do once in a while (is it lack of trust in the customer or the vehicle? Are Aria's dynamics SO bad as to merit full-time electronic surveillance to prevent it from toppling, skidding, oversteering or spinning?)
I'm sorry, but that's bordering on Tabloid stuff. How can you conclude that Tata has "silently" acknowledged anything of the sort? It is just an opinion.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
But IF (and there's no confirmation from TML's side about it yet) keeping the vehicle in 4x2 mode achieves even 0.5km/l of additional FE, would that ever induce even 10% of owners to run it in AWD mode like it's meant to be?
Possibly true, but doesn't gel with your view of the boy racers wanting to switch off ESP.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
As far as my personal opinion goes, AWD on the Aria in India is overkill, utterly useless, and a version with 4x2 (but with ABS, EBD, ESP & TC as standard features across the range) with a 1.5-2L (or even 2.5L) INR lower price tag would go a long way to make the car successful.
Well, I'd like it free, but I don't think Tata's going to give me one But I do agree that a 2WD at a reduced price (however much that might work out to) would be a good option to a lot of people. But then that might take away a bit of the premium sheen.
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Old 14th October 2010, 23:42   #228
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Is this the case everywhere? From all the TASC I have seen in the last two-and-a-half years in Delhi NCR, I have always felt there is no difference in the way an Indica DLE owner is treated and a Safari VX owner is treated. In any case, 80% of Safaris come to the TASC with their drivers, not owners. I believe the Aria could have a similar situation.

The other Safari owners like Suman may comment on this.

IMO, Tata is a long way off from providing really premium service experience to anyone, because ultimately the Service Advisor and Mechanics will be the same, and so will be their diagnostic skills.

The treatment meted out to one at an ASC is also dependant on one's relationship with them and customer's attitude. I always feel I get better treatment than a regular Safari Owner at my FTASC.
Of the few TASS that I have visited I do get preferential treatement when I drive in my Safari. The entire team, from the SA to the mechanics are different for both.

And good to know you get a good treatement from the Fiat side of TASS, even though you got it totally wrong about the other side.


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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...ABS, EBD, ESP and TC are useful features in any vehicle, and the Aria is the first sub-25-lakh-rupee vehicle on Indian roads to host these features together. Kudos to Tata for that. But that does not take away form the fact that the Borg Warner "Torque on Demand" AWD that's installed in the Aria is utterly unnecessary and just adds to cost, weight, complexity and crowding at the service centres. Tata themselves silently acknowledge the fact by providing a switch to change over to 4x2, but no switch to turn off ESP, which every enthusiastic driver would love to do once in a while (is it lack of trust in the customer or the vehicle? Are Aria's dynamics SO bad as to merit full-time electronic surveillance to prevent it from toppling, skidding, oversteering or spinning?) But IF (and there's no confirmation from TML's side about it yet) keeping the vehicle in 4x2 mode achieves even 0.5km/l of additional FE, would that ever induce even 10% of owners to run it in AWD mode like it's meant to be?

As far as my personal opinion goes, AWD on the Aria in India is overkill, utterly useless, and a version with 4x2 (but with ABS, EBD, ESP & TC as standard features across the range) with a 1.5-2L (or even 2.5L) INR lower price tag would go a long way to make the car successful.
SS-T:

Agree with you on the "only AWD" strategy of TATA. Maybe that is what they want - make it a vehicle that the taxi segment would not have a second look. I know more than enough people who do not buy the Innova just because of its taxi image.

Do not agree with the note on the lack of switch to turn off ESP. It is not a saloon that you would drift and take it to the drag race. Enthusiastic driver - what exactly are you saying such people would want to do with a MUV? And, isn't this the first vehicle from TATA with ESP? So, where is the 'lack of trust in the customer or vehicle' even coming in?

Would agree on the last point, but the marketing team for ARIA seems to have decided (for now) that the bulk buyers (taxi segment) should wait. But nothing stopping anyone from paying a premium (!) and buying, if they are so hell bend (luxury segment?).

All said and done, I would love to see how the actual market reacts to the product and pricing.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
...Same here.
Raj: Looks like this thread is keeping you very busy! And not surprising that you would have agreed to a negative comment here. Honestly, its starting to look kind of bordering on desperation.

Last edited by HappyWheels : 14th October 2010 at 23:52.
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Old 15th October 2010, 00:00   #229
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The interior of the Aria are actually quite Land Roverish, (even in terms of the materials used). Though that may not have been the inspiration as this project was on since 2006, yet it really feels good and quite elegant.

Somehow the interiors tempt more than the fortuner, which tempts more from the ourside and interms of the engine but then the spec sheet and features of the Aria are also tempting

Why couldnt one of the two go the full hog, compared to the captiva, which has compact dimentions the Aria seems more likely to overbear on the other cars on the road, but ofcourse less so than the Fortuner.

current delivery times are 3+1 week from order. mumbai OTR is about 17.8L for the pride, the difference in pride and prestige is so less than it just does not makes sense to go one step lower for just 1 L lesser.
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Old 15th October 2010, 00:05   #230
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
SST -

AWD adds to safety (especially for those who drive enthusiastically), I would not switch off AWD at any time even if it meant 15% saving let alone 5%. One never know which urgent manuver (rain, oil slick, sand gravel on road etc.) one may need to take and AWD would definately assist in grip and stability along with ESP, TC etc.
ACM, believe me, or ask any expert, ALL manoeuvres that you can think about in any car are taken care of by the combination of ABS, EBD, ESP and TC. 4WD is NOT a primary safety feature as such - not, at least, on a 60-odd-bhp/tonne vehicle.

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Agree with the rest, but Crowding at the SC? It has just been launched!
Aria gets the same TASS as the Nano and Indica, and TASS are already crowded!

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Well, I'd like it free, but I don't think Tata's going to give me one
No point in being sarcastic, Velu. It's an individual's perception what the right price for a product should be, and many on this forum have expressly stated a lower price for the package is the way to go. If you beg to disagree, I shall be grateful if you can at least not get personal.

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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Do not agree with the note on the lack of switch to turn off ESP. It is not a saloon that you would drift and take it to the drag race. Enthusiastic driver - what exactly are you saying such people would want to do with a MUV? ... So, where is the 'lack of trust in the customer or vehicle' even coming in?
If that be the case, why does TML plan to have the ESP "off" switch on its export models? Which special kind of driver are they targeting abroad that does not exist in India?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 15th October 2010 at 00:09.
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Old 15th October 2010, 00:07   #231
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The interior of the Aria are actually quite Land Roverish, (even in terms of the materials used). Though that may not have been the inspiration as this project was on since 2006, yet it really feels good and quite elegant.

Somehow the interiors tempt more than the fortuner, which tempts more from the ourside and interms of the engine but then the spec sheet and features of the Aria are also tempting

Why couldnt one of the two go the full hog, compared to the captiva, which has compact dimentions the Aria seems more likely to overbear on the other cars on the road, but ofcourse less so than the Fortuner.

current delivery times are 3+1 week from order. mumbai OTR is about 17.8L for the pride, the difference in pride and prestige is so less than it just does not makes sense to go one step lower for just 1 L lesser.
to the hilt.

I was amazed at the interiors and detail given for fit and finish.

The quality of leather is top-notch. What i got to hear is , the Aria uses a material called MB-Tex --- Same developed and used in all recent Mercedes Benz cars

While a fortuner or a captiva is a clear 4 / 5 seater, the Aria is a definite 7 seater.

I can vouch and say. No other Indian Manufacturer has built such a good car as on Date.

For the paisa prepositions, its a perfect Paisa Vasool product.
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Old 15th October 2010, 00:21   #232
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...If that be the case, why does TML plan to have the ESP "off" switch on its export models? Which special kind of driver are they targeting abroad that does not exist in India?
So, you feel that TATA not giving a chance for the user to disable a safety device is wrong?

Would we be having the same conversation even if it was the other way around?Then, it would have been accusing TATA of not valuing the Indian life and allowing us to disable the safety feature, but then, I would be on your side.

Sigh!!!

Last edited by HappyWheels : 15th October 2010 at 00:23.
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Old 15th October 2010, 01:00   #233
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Just to correct you, the Aria costs Rs 17 Lakh OTR Bangalore.
Also Santa fe and Aria are totally different vehicles except 4WD which is common between them.

So I don't think it makes any sense comparing these cars.

Tata Aria Launched…A Review | Automate4u's Blog
Buddy, check out the couple of post above - I am talking about the "PRIDE" variant [top end]. It is 19L and odd.
Yes, both are different and thats why I too dont want people to compare. My response was only to Raj on the cost factor.

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Old 15th October 2010, 01:08   #234
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GTO, you have eagle eyes. Quite amazed with your eye for details. Very detailed indeeed, may be you should start a forum to teach us all on how to review an automobile.

- Liked the interiors more than the exteriors.
- Front looked like Vista.
- Back looks outdated , very bland.
- Colour selection of the seat is great. Gives you that luxury feel.
- The compartments at the top were thoughtful. Hope this doesnt rattle after sometime.
- paint seems to have wornout in the Adapterra badge
- With pneumatic pistons will it be difficult to align the bonnet after minor misalignments?
- Front grill fitted in the bonnet. Will it break if we accidentally pull the grill to bring down the bonnet? A handle to pull down the bonnet would have helped as it was pointed by GTO that you need muscle to pull it down.
- Whats that tube in the bonnet just behind the lock?
- Washer is too close to the wiper. Hope the wiper does not block the water when it juts out.
- What those line in the glass window after the C Pillar? Heating elements?
- The key for a 14L vehicles looks very bland. No TATA logo in the key, strange.

Overall i would say its a nice package. It would have been enticing if it was priced little lower. I do undetsand that Aria comes loaded but still a slightly stripped down version with moderate price would have won the hearts.

Let me ask a question. If someone (not me ha ha) gives you 17 Lakhs for free (not even in dreams?), will that prompt you to buy Tata Aria?
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Old 15th October 2010, 02:27   #235
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Not to nitpick, but since you brought up development time, Tata began work on the Aria in mid-2006. Hence, it's 4 years.
Thanks GTO for all the replies and corrections. However, in 2005, I actually got to sit inside both the Aria coupe and the (then) Indiva(?) concept (don't ask how ).
Please visit THIS link to see that the design for the (now) Aria was more of less (at least the shell and major styling lines) were done 5 years ago.
Hence, my mention that the Tatas started working on this X-over design way back.
As far as I remembered, this was unveiled at the Geneva motorshow as far back as 2002 ! (confirmatory link)(Ctrl+F for "Indiva"). When you convert it to English, it says that the concept vehicle had sunroof and 2 rows of seats. Guess the roof didn't stand the test of time.

team-bhp even discussed this "blue car" here (New Tata TL at Bologna- Pic uploaded!) in 2006. (and a couple of other places too).

(press release from 2002) New 7-Seater concept unveiled. I guess they kept the basic design on hold till 2006 to start the phase 1 of the actual detailing work.

Last edited by Manas : 15th October 2010 at 02:42. Reason: team-bhp link & tata press release link added
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Old 15th October 2010, 02:37   #236
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It is indeed a very nice review. I have never ever read such a detailed review till now. All the important points that are required have been stated.. Feels as if this review was done keeping in mind how people think and not just what the reviewer thinks.
Just for that reason I would like to share few points with everyone over here.. I have read every single comment made in this thread since 12th oct. I have never been so looking forward to reading the replies for anything. Why?? Because my dad has booked one of the first Arias in India on 12th oct before it was even 11 AM and that too within 10 minutes of entering the Pandit Auto TATA showroom in Pune on Tilak road. The reason behind such a quick decision is that he really liked it. In fact how much ever I try to compare the Aria with other MUVs I cannot do that. Because Aria is not in their class. It is a class above even though they have a similar ride, handling etc. He has been always waiting for an Aria type car.. That will give him the SUV feeling with a sedan like handling and a premium comfort. Aria is just about right.
The only reason that he never bothered to go for a corolla, civic or laura was because he could get something like SX4 in under 8 lacs which suited his needs and he didnt need to go for the premium sedans. In sx4 he has completed almost 1.2 lac kms and is yet unwilling to part with it.
I have read that Fortuner got Innova like interiors but Aria's interiors are not "like" anyone else's. It may have similar behavior like other cars but it is yet very different. People can keep comparing the Aria with the MUVs but show me any MUV that got similar feature set. That is what sets its apart from those cars. That Aria got what they don't.
And please yourselves this question that if Mahindra launches a Xylo and Scorpio with near identical features would you pay that amount?? at least my dad would never.. Aria appealed to him in that way. That a new segment car is launched with the features that he had been waiting for. I have never driven a Xylo, Innova or Scorpio but I am falling in love with the Aria after the test drive. I see no other perfect car.. Just like how it was with SX4 which is as long as an octavia, got a very good stance, even after driving it for 1.2 lac kms it still got life and doesnt feel outdated.
If Fortuner was loaded with such features do u think that Toyota wouldnt have priced it above 25 lacs ?? with features like ESP, 6 air bags, Auto wipers and headlights and everything nice Aria has won my heart.
The first time when I sat inside for a drive I could feel that the Aria is assuring me that nothing would happen to me. Its sheer sturdiness and solid stance really impresses me. And dont make me go on about how it drives. Every car got its own negative and positive things and there is never a perfect product. I in fact not even for once went like "oh my what an expensive car" but like "so much in just 17 lacs".
As for the TATA after sales service I have only one thing to say. The showroom had a dedicated team just for the Aria. They had a different uniform altogether. So lets hope it is like that at the service center as well.
And my Aria will be registered out of Octroi for around 16.9 lacs and in case we get the insurance done on our own for a cheaper price then all the more better.
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Old 15th October 2010, 06:58   #237
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...Why?? Because my dad has booked one of the first Arias in India on 12th oct before it was even 11 AM and that too within 10 minutes of entering the Pandit Auto TATA showroom in Pune on Tilak road. ...
As for the TATA after sales service I have only one thing to say. The showroom had a dedicated team just for the Aria. They had a different uniform altogether. So lets hope it is like that at the service center as well.
And my Aria will be registered out of Octroi for around 16.9 lacs and in case we get the insurance done on our own for a cheaper price then all the more better.
Wow - Here comes the very first Aria booking (or second ?) in our TBHP
Congratulations psbali and do start a new thread with your driving experience, etc ... Btw, whats the variant your Dad went in for ?

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Old 15th October 2010, 07:27   #238
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@GTO

I know for sure that Tata had started the work of Aria before 2006. Perhaps prior to 2006 the project was still under evaluation. In fact the X2 platform work was mid way by 2005!
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Old 15th October 2010, 09:21   #239
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hey my dad booked the Pride variant.
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Old 15th October 2010, 09:52   #240
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Originally Posted by psbali View Post
I have never been so looking forward to reading the replies for anything. Why?? Because my dad has booked one of the first Arias in India on 12th oct before it was even 11 AM and that too within 10 minutes of entering the Pandit Auto TATA showroom in Pune on Tilak road. The reason behind such a quick decision is that he really liked it. In fact how much ever I try to compare the Aria with other MUVs I cannot do that. Because Aria is not in their class. It is a class above even though they have a similar ride, handling etc. He has been always waiting for an Aria type car.. That will give him the SUV feeling with a sedan like handling and a premium comfort. Aria is just about right.
Hey, Heartiest Congratulations! I really enjoyed reading your post & Good luck to you. Do keep us updated on your ownership experience, I don't think I'd be exaggerating when I say that your thread will be one of the most keenly awaited & followed threads on the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
ABS, EBD, ESP and TC are useful features in any vehicle, and the Aria is the first sub-25-lakh-rupee vehicle on Indian roads to host these features together. Kudos to Tata for that. But that does not take away form the fact that the Borg Warner "Torque on Demand" AWD that's installed in the Aria is utterly unnecessary and just adds to cost, weight, complexity and crowding at the service centres.
Doc, it depends on the individual POV I'd say. If everyone felt that TOD/AWD is useless, vehicles like the Captiva, CRV, Outlander etc wouldn't sell.

I would agree with you if you said that the current top-end Aria needs a price cut upto 1.5 lacs or so. But to summarily dismiss AWD & a host of other features (including why ESP cannot be turned off) doesn't really make much sense to me.

Oh & yes - if TML were to actually listen & reduce the price by 2.5 lacs & take away the 4x4, the TML bashers (I simply love this term ) would immediately pile on & ask why the heck they would buy a TATA over an Innova when it didn't even have a 4x4. LOL - with TML, you simply can't win

PS: I couldn't figure why the AWD alone would increase crowding at the service centers??

Last edited by suman : 15th October 2010 at 10:00.
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