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Old 15th October 2010, 14:02   #256
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Good thought but I'd be very wary unless I knew & trusted the workshop. Last thing I'd want is for an expensive vehicle like this to be burning rubber (and God knows what else ) between the workshop & my house at my expense.

Having said that, some TML Workshops do offer the pick up (& sometimes drop) facility even now though not on a blanket basis, more on a need based merit scenario.

Please do go ahead & suggest this anyway, it will be a (selectable) labour/energy saving device if they do decide to provide it.

Last edited by suman : 15th October 2010 at 14:09.
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Old 15th October 2010, 14:07   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Really? Which market? Links please.
As of today, the prices in Thailand are as follows


Toyota Innova 2.0 V Aero Auto - 1,064,000 Baht
Toyota Fortuner 2.7 V 4x2 Auto - 1,179,000 Baht
Toyota Fortuner 2.5TD G VNT 4x2 - 1,024,000 Baht

The base Fortuner is cheaper than the top Innova!

Please note this:
1. The Innova is available only as a petrol
2. The difference between the Innova 2.0 top and Fortuner 2.7 base is 1.7 lakhs Indian Rupees (accurate as of today) to be precise!

Which ever way we look the Fortuner simply cannot cost twice.

(This data originally comes from a Thai dealership and is more reliable than any weblink)

Last edited by Trapezio : 15th October 2010 at 14:08.
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Old 15th October 2010, 14:17   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Just a random thought : It'll be much easier for Tata to have a dedicated service advisor who picks up the Aria from the customer's house, and drops it off after a service. Advantage:

a) Much easier to implement vis a vis create dedicated service bays etc.

b) Customer doesn't have to potentially wait in que, share space with "cheaper" Indica owners etc. Customer doesn't "see" crowded, packed and chaotic service centers either.
//Its like Merc, BMW having separate queue for S class up & 7 Series ( M series) etc.

c) Cost effective. The Aria isn't a mass volume product. It's not like there will be a 100 Arias visiting the same service center every day. Most dealerships can easily manage with 2 dedicated Aria service advisors. The HR capacity should already in place, it's only a matter of segregation.
// Guess this can be done and is done for Safari etc I guess. Not all SA meets all customers

d) Some feel good stuff can be thrown in : Box of chocolates upon vehicle return, service advisor's personal cell number given to customer etc.
// Hehe, hope it wont become a health issue if owners get chocolates on very visit and visits are often. Just a dedicated SA for a set of customers should help who remembers his customer ( like a good family doc)

End result = customer feels good about this personalised service. And home pickup / drop off is SO much more convenient. Tata can well manage a premium experience with minimal financial outflow.

// Most TASS do this even now. I have seen TASS people coming down 25kms one way to get colleagues car (Punto etc) for regular service. Competition helps.
I'll forward the suggestion to TML.
A friend of mine who was eyeing a Laura now has an eye on the Aria. Hope I get to TD one soon along with him.
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Old 15th October 2010, 15:46   #259
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Well I didn't wanted to get into this price discussion but couldn't resist.


Fortuner IMHO is of course overpriced but so are others in the class. What works for Fortuner is Toyota's peace of mind AND good amount of intimidating rugged metal (that is nice and macho to look at) you get. Pricing has always been the most difficult part to get correctly by sales in any domain. In this case Toyota folks have correctly done their homework (or could be by luck ) and read the minds of how far are people willing to go to get the two attributes mentioned earlier. Business(es) don't work for charity (It could be an indirect outcome though in some cases).
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Old 15th October 2010, 15:57   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
GTO, I don't quite see why at all the Aria should ever be compared to a Fortuner,
Why not. Both are horribly overpriced. Maybe going by a cost + pricing model, and benchmarking the Fortuner, made TML price the Aria the way it has. (Yes, I know people are voting with their chequebooks for the Fortuner)

But that does not take away form the fact that the Borg Warner "Torque on Demand" AWD that's installed in the Aria is utterly unnecessary and just adds to cost, weight, complexity and crowding at the service centres.
....
As far as my personal opinion goes, AWD on the Aria in India is overkill, utterly useless,
Though I agree with you as of now, I don't think we laymen should pass judgment quite so easily esp. when the other party has put his money (several thousand crores) where his mouth is. Looking forward to a detailed presentation by TML putting their PoV across. (The armchair cynic in me suggests that TML did not want to tackle the Innova head on, and used the 4x4 as a differentiator. Also possible, we are going to see TML version of Innova/ Fortuner, with Aria = Innova. ).

On another note, what is the Arias NCAP rating.

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Old 15th October 2010, 17:37   #261
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Though I do not own a Tata product, I had extensively driven my cousin's Indica and my F-I-L's Vista QJD. You might find Tata's service experience to be exceptional probably because you might not have had the Toyota experience (no offence meant). I have experienced both the Tata service and the Toyota service in Kerala, and frankly speaking, the Toyota experience is a class apart.
None taken , I have never experienced service in Kerala but here I have never heard Toyota service going out of the the way to fix issues I mentioned FOC .
Here they offer free pickup and drop unconditionally to Safari customers all small issues are fixed FOC which are not always warrenty related e.g. I got tank and fuel lines cleaned , lower arms greased which are not manufacturing defects. , Every-time vehicle goes to T.A.S.S for small or big issues it gets free wash

As I said before the services expected at different price point are different let Toyota launch Ethios or their smaller cars at price point of Maruti or Tata and lets see if they will give you service experience of Innova VX or fortuner.

Regarding pre-sales I can not say Nandi Toyota in Bangalore is exceptional
Suppose I am in market for 20 L SUV I do not know if I will write cheque for Aria because I am risk averse and will wait for 2 years but definitely not Fortuner due to the price point versus features offered.

Quote:
Just a random thought : It'll be much easier for Tata to have a dedicated service advisor who picks up the Aria from the customer's house, and drops it off after a service. Advantage:
They do so for Safari atleast here in Bangalore I got it from Prerana once and Concord everytime , I see no reason why they will not do it for 15- 19 Lakh vehicle

Last edited by amitk26 : 15th October 2010 at 17:45.
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Old 15th October 2010, 17:44   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Just a random thought : It'll be much easier for Tata to have a dedicated service advisor who picks up the Aria from the customer's house, and drops it off after a service. Advantage:

a) Much easier to implement vis a vis create dedicated service bays etc.

b) Customer doesn't have to potentially wait in que, share space with "cheaper" Indica owners etc. Customer doesn't "see" crowded, packed and chaotic service centers either.

c) Cost effective. The Aria isn't a mass volume product. It's not like there will be a 100 Arias visiting the same service center every day. Most dealerships can easily manage with 2 dedicated Aria service advisors. The HR capacity should already in place, it's only a matter of segregation.

d) Some feel good stuff can be thrown in : Box of chocolates upon vehicle return, service advisor's personal cell number given to customer etc.

End result = customer feels good about this personalised service. And home pickup / drop off is SO much more convenient. Tata can well manage a premium experience with minimal financial outflow.

I'll forward the suggestion to TML.
Excellent Idea GTO,

I already seem to see a difference in how they are handling booking and the persons who are interacting with the potential customers.

Yes Toyota showrooms are a class appart but for example in Mumbai in chembur Wasan services TATA, Fiat, Ford & Toyota from the same place more or less. We just have to go to different buildings in the same crowded complex but park the cars adjacent to each other. There may still be a difference but it is more or less gone, why would the owners of Wasan attempt to give poorer quality for 3 brands and prioritize Toyota when their major business lies with the other 3, I think they would actually learn from Toyota and then bring the knowledge across to the rest.

Service advisor collecting car from home is the best approach, Skoda too offers this service at times.
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Old 15th October 2010, 17:56   #263
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I am looking to buy a 13-15 lakh MUV within a week. Was almost certain on Innova, now confused after the Aria launch. Cant decide between Innova GX (7S Diesel), Innova VX & Aria Pleasure. My Dad wants to go for Aria Pride, but betting 19 lakhs (company registered) on Tata just doesn't convince me, more so after owning a Sumo in the past.

Called up Wasan Motors in Mumbai. They said, a TD vehicle will be available Monday.
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Old 15th October 2010, 19:06   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_horizon View Post
I am looking to buy a 13-15 lakh MUV within a week. Was almost certain on Innova, now confused after the Aria launch. Cant decide between Innova GX (7S Diesel), Innova VX & Aria Pleasure. My Dad wants to go for Aria Pride, but betting 19 lakhs (company registered) on Tata just doesn't convince me, more so after owning a Sumo in the past.
.
Same here. Few weeks back i booked innovo VX and and then cancelled the same in order to check Aria. But now i am almost sure to go ahead with Innova VX, (might wait until for Skoda declare price of Yeti ) . Unfortunately there has been increase in 17K in innova vx prices after 1st october, but anyways have to bear the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soorajmuralee View Post
Definitely mate...I would always suggest you to go for the Innova, as it is better in everything, but looks(subjective) and features. And yes even I feel it is overpriced...

Tata Aria Launched…A Review | Automate4u's Blog
Agree and almost inline with every comment/feelings in this review.

Last edited by abhi1881 : 15th October 2010 at 19:17.
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Old 15th October 2010, 19:13   #265
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post


Really? Which market? Links please.
Middle east. Qatar to be specific. I dont think they give prices on the website. I checked out the fortuner twice, once when it was first launched in middle east and next 2 years back when by brother in law was considering for purchase. Not to mention both the occasions it failed to impress us.

Prices roughly 2-3 yrs (pre-facelift versions) - all 3 are top spec variants
innova I4 petrol A/T QR. 99999/-
fortuner I4 petrol A/T(4-speed) QR. 90999/-
fortuner v6 petrol A/T QR. 109000/-
QR conversion rate varies between 11-13 INR

You can check with people in middle east, prices might have changed, but the difference will not have varied much

Last edited by mxx : 15th October 2010 at 19:21.
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Old 15th October 2010, 19:49   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_horizon View Post
I am looking to buy a 13-15 lakh MUV within a week. Was almost certain on Innova, now confused after the Aria launch. Cant decide between Innova GX (7S Diesel), Innova VX & Aria Pleasure. My Dad wants to go for Aria Pride, but betting 19 lakhs (company registered) on Tata just doesn't convince me, more so after owning a Sumo in the past.

Called up Wasan Motors in Mumbai. They said, a TD vehicle will be available Monday.

I would recommend to have a test drive of Aria before taking the decision.
The difference between top end innova and the base version Aria ia not much and you still get a lot more in Aria .
Here is ahat I take on it.
Engine : Both Aria and innova are proven
Comfort:Both Aria and innova are comfortable but as per GTO review innova is slightly more composed on highways.
Service: Innova is better .I have not seen much issues with tata servicing
thugh .I believe selecting the right dealer is key for TATA in terms of service.Some dealers are good while some are bad while none match the service quality of innova.
Features and options: Aria wins hands down

A bit of offrading will be possible with Aria while none will be possible with Toyota.
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Old 15th October 2010, 20:10   #267
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My impression after a test drive of Pride variant:-

Positives
  • Tubro lag is manageable (even in bumper to bumper traffic). Since I have driven only petrol cars (for my 1L+ Kms) was worried about this bit after a recent Figo TCDi TD
  • Driving position was very good. I am 6' 1" and had put the seat height a bit high (almost at the highest position possible for me).
  • Didn't miss the dead-pedal from the above driving position
  • No significant transmission vibration/shake was felt on steering or gear lever even on bad roads.
  • Brakes were very reassuring (even though felt the front to be dipping a bit on emergency braking)
  • The second row is perhaps the best one in sub 20L vehicles
  • Third row space was manageable (my head didn't touch roof). For full sized adults anything more than a short city trip in them may not be possible. For long distance my kids might find them interesting. So should suit my current requirements.
  • The FM sounded ok, atleast the treble was decent.
  • The Concorde Motors sales person (Rajesh) was very professional and was among the best-ones I have interacted with recently (at Prerana Motors/Whitefield Honda/Pratham Motors/Advaith Hyundai/Trident Hyundai). Perhaps only the Trident guy was better.

Negatives
  • Gear lever wasn't slotting as good as I would have liked. It was better than a 98 Maruti Esteem(my first car), but worse than Hyundai i10 or NHC
  • While running over bumps at 30-40 kmph a momentary feel of dissociated steering was felt (ESP/TC taking control?)
  • The second row seat belt height wasn't very comfortable on shoulder (for me) in the upright position
  • Steering-wheel audio controls were continuously messing-up with my right hand
  • Normal USB cable connectors might come in the way of leaving the USB connector compartment closed. Will have to look for a 90 degree bend L shaped USB connector cable to leave this tray closed, so that the cup holder below can be used
  • On every power-on the ICE FM defaulted to volume level 10 (no memory of previous volume due to speed sensitive volume feature?)
  • Putting-on and removing the driver seat-belt with the arm-rest in use was a pain

Test drive path was from Sarjapur Road to Electronics City through Amrita College Road and its continuation from Hosa Road (through Concorde Midway city road which has a 2km almost no road kind-of stretch after recent rains). Infact this is my daily route to work, so spend around 2hours driving up/down this route and driving around the the two end points.

Btw, booked a Prestige variant. Plan to choose Night Shade Black or Sardinia Red based on what vehicle is already available in their yard. Actually I had booked a Pride Sardinia Red, last Saturday (2 days before launch)itself. So hope I get vehicle in hand next week
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Old 15th October 2010, 20:53   #268
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The ARIA could not impress me.I did not like the exterior styling.It appears very mean and lacks those sporty,manly,butch looks.For me it's the Safari anyday.Definitely,the interiors seem to be way ahead of typical TATA interiors but i would see the interiors only if i like the exterior styling and looks.
I earlier used to not like the Scorpio s on our roads but now i feel Scorpio is better than the ARIA and feel many others also have the same opinion.At 10 odd lakhs the road presence of the Scorpio or the Safari is matchless.
The above is strictly my personal opinion and fellow bhpians may have their own opinion.
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Old 15th October 2010, 21:00   #269
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Really? Which market? Links please.
Fortuner costs in the range of Dhm 83500-132500 in UAE, while the Innova costs Dhm 78000-85000.
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Old 15th October 2010, 22:08   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobsterB View Post
My impression after a test drive of Pride variant:-
...
Negatives
  • Gear lever wasn't slotting as good as I would have liked. It was better than a 98 Maruti Esteem(my first car), but worse than Hyundai i10 or NHC
    ...
  • Steering-wheel audio controls were continuously messing-up with my right hand
    ...
  • On every power-on the ICE FM defaulted to volume level 10 (no memory of previous volume due to speed sensitive volume feature?)
  • Putting-on and removing the driver seat-belt with the arm-rest in use was a pain

...
Btw, booked a Prestige variant. Plan to choose Night Shade Black or Sardinia Red based on what vehicle is already available in their yard. Actually I had booked a Pride Sardinia Red, last Saturday (2 days before launch)itself. So hope I get vehicle in hand next week
Congratulations LobsterB.
Gear lever slotting - You may need to get used to it if its a long stick like Safari or Innova. This was the case for me when I upgraded from Indigo Marina to Safari few months ago.

Steering wheel audio controls - Again, may be getting used to factor. Atleast I am not able to imagine holding a steering wheel with a couple of controls on either side of the wheel

Volume control default - There should be a setting to put this right. Dont worry much.

Seat belt with arm-rest - Trust me, I had the same problem initially. But, I got used to it [may be a trick of putting the seat belt right] in few days time.

Finally, it seems confusing which variant you are going to take delivery - Pride or Prestige ?

Congratulations again - May be, you are the first one in Bangalore

Good luck
Prem.
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