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Old 16th October 2010, 15:09   #286
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I went to Wasan Motors, Chembur today morning. The sales person was well informed. She explained the various features and the differences between the various models. I asked her for a TD, for which she initially said that the TD vehicle hasn't arrived yet and would be possible Monday. She then consulted her superior, and they arranged the model (White-Prestige) which was on display inside the showroom, for TD. It took 15 mins more to get the red number plates stickers done, and then we were allowed a TD. Have to say, the vehicle has left me impressed. The AC, and interior space felt luxurious. However, the interior plastics were of cheap quality.

They claim to have received 6 bookings in total from their 3 showrooms, till now. I asked for the delivery period, and they said they are suppose to receive 7-8 cars from Tata in a week, if my model & color match with what they have got, they can deliver the car on Dhanteras. Overall, a very nice experience in the showroom.

After that I went to Madhuban Toyota, for Innova TD. Compared to Aria, the Innova did feel poor in terms of features & interiors. I asked the salesperson, the technical specifications and she said 1600 bhp, then corrected it to 160 bhp. I stood silent.

Still confused between the Aria & Innova. Any more inputs would be welcome.
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Old 16th October 2010, 15:12   #287
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Just a random thought :
I'll forward the suggestion to TML.
Don't see what is it that is not there currently that is mentioned here? All that you have mentioned are already available at Concord, be it in Bangalore or my home town based on my personal experience(not cousins or friends or neighbours).

Well OK, maybe not the chocolate part. It will be good if they do that (and hopefully we do not have people nit-picking on the brand offered!).

Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Toyota Innova 2.0 V Aero Auto - 1,064,000 Baht
Toyota Fortuner 2.7 V 4x2 Auto - 1,179,000 Baht
Toyota Fortuner 2.5TD G VNT 4x2 - 1,024,000 Baht
Originally Posted by mxx View Post
Prices roughly 2-3 yrs (pre-facelift versions) - all 3 are top spec variants
innova I4 petrol A/T QR. 99999/-
fortuner I4 petrol A/T(4-speed) QR. 90999/-
fortuner v6 petrol A/T QR. 109000/-
QR conversion rate varies between 11-13 INR
Originally Posted by prmd_cochin View Post
Fortuner costs in the range of Dhm 83500-132500 in UAE, while the Innova costs Dhm 78000-85000.
Talk about milking the customer base. But then, the customers feel happy, so why not.

Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
How much was the discount? ...
Wishful thinking; hope you are not asking for a discount just because this is a "TATA".

Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
I think the talk about whether priced right or wrong is subjective...
Congrats on the booking, RRSteer. And well said about the pricing.

Similarly of the pricing are the mentions and focus on the features or lack of them. Safety features are still something the Indian buyer is considers as secondary requirement. In a place where people place lack of dead-pedal as a major buying criteria, ignoring the ABS, airbags and other safety features, what else can be expected.
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Old 16th October 2010, 16:08   #288
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Just a random thought : It'll be much easier for Tata to have a dedicated service advisor who picks up the Aria from the customer's house, and drops it off after a service. Advantage:

b) Customer doesn't have to potentially wait in que, share space with "cheaper" Indica owners etc. Customer doesn't "see" crowded, packed and chaotic service centers either.

d) Some feel good stuff can be thrown in : Box of chocolates upon vehicle return, service advisor's personal cell number given to customer etc.

End result = customer feels good about this personalised service. And home pickup / drop off is SO much more convenient. Tata can well manage a premium experience with minimal financial outflow.

I'll forward the suggestion to TML.
a) Pick & drop facility is provided by many companies, maybe Tata already offers that. Providing this sort of service to only Aria customers would appear being rude to others(Indica, Safari, Manza, Nano, etc). If this suggestion is for the marketing/sales team, then its fine because then it shall figure during the buying phase.
There are some on the other hand like me who prefer to stand by the vehicle while it gets serviced.

b) Again, a company cannot simply afford to distinguish, treat partially its consumers. Be it an Indica owner or a Nano or an Aria owner, company has to treat them on par or else they could loose the lucrative small car market in lieu of far less numbered luxury market.

d) Box of chocolates is welcome but what's the aim? The main issue is servicing per say, it has to be good, in time & no return visits for the same problem. Niggling issues have to be dealt with & corrected with a solid solution. A box of chocolates is no substitute for a poor job. Does that mean, carry on with what you already do & pack in a box of chocolates to shut up the customer!

Therefore end result of such nothing less than lame suggestions would be poor & not focused on improving the essential part. Rather just skirting the main issues & packaging the whole deal to make it appear sweet.

I hope it doesn't sound bad but please don't bother to forward such suggestions.
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Old 16th October 2010, 16:42   #289
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The way I see it, here's another car that's ahead of its time. I'm not sure if the market is ready for this crossover concept. The last car that tried, the Chevy Forester, failed miserably. And what a shame, because the Forester was a thoroughly capable car.

Tata would have done much better if they'd made a full blown SUV or if they'd stripped down the Aria to bring it within the pricing of the Innova. There will be a few who see the car for its strengths, but most would simply drive over to the nearest Toyota dealership and choose between a Fortuner and an Innova.
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Old 16th October 2010, 17:06   #290
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Got an hour of Aria Prestige TD yesterday. The SA told me I was the second one to get the TD in the town.

Enough has been said already so I'll be short. What I really liked

1. Ride quality. There is no comparison between this and my Innova. The speed breakers, potholes, in construction roads, kuchha roads - This car just glided through all of them. Fantastic.

2. NVH for the most part. Once AC is running you don't really hear any engine noise. Also when cruising at 120-130 kph engine felt much more refined than the Innova which starts getting quite vocal and intrusive.

3. Seats. Quite comfy and supportive. I really like the material used. However color was not of my liking.

4. Confidence to take it over all the rut and the kind of roads/no roads we have. A great companion when I go to countryside and visit farmhouse.

5. Headlights. Illuminate the road really well and were reminding me of Skoda Superb (Which I think has best headlights in the business).

What I did not like
1. Handling at high speeds. Somehow did not felt confident enough and a hint of nervousness was there while doing 140. There was a feeling of floatiness and was wondering how this car would cope if I had to dodge a stray cow on the highway just jumping off the from nowehere. Though Innova is no great shakes but comparatively you feel more confident and in control.

2. Some cheap plastic bits and a general feeling that fit and finish is still not par for the course.

As for the third row - I'm 6'1" and tried the last row during return trip. With middle row moved forward I could sit there for 30-40 mins trip and felt the legroom is at par with Innova. The shoulder room felt somewhat smaller. However I really liked the AC chilling and general feeling of well being - which I felt is a shade better than Innova here. For anyone south of 5'5" I guess this row should be fine.

Overall - would I buy this to replace Innova ? No I'm waiting for a TD on 194 bhp Santa Fe
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Old 16th October 2010, 18:52   #291
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somewhat agree; actually I've been thinking in the same line, and my thoughts are in bold.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
The way I see it, here's another car that's ahead of its time. I'm not sure if the market is ready for this crossover concept.

What if Tata is planning to put 4x4 in every car in the future excluding the Indica (maybe) and Nano (surely) ?

The last car that tried, the Chevy Forester, failed miserably. And what a shame, because the Forester was a thoroughly capable car.
IMO, it failed because it was a petrol.

Tata would have done much better if they'd made a full blown SUV...
They would do that when they launch the new Safari.

or if they'd stripped down the Aria to bring it within the pricing of the Innova.
Totally disagree. Such a car will only cheapen further the image of Tata, strengthen further it's taxi image and finally it cannot match the Innova either in sales or in reputation.

There will be a few who see the car for its strengths, but most would simply drive over to the nearest Toyota dealership and choose between a Fortuner and an Innova.
I too think so, let us wait and see...

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 16th October 2010 at 18:56.
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Old 16th October 2010, 20:23   #292
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Well if you guys ask me. I have started considering TATA as a premium car brand already. Had gone to the dealership today to collect a quotation and checked out the Aria again.. Looks good from the outside and the inside.. Feels like a very good quality car. Really unbelievable that there is such a car in our price budget with so many features.. I mean which car doesnt have its own share of negatives..?? Sitting inside an Aria only makes you forget them.. Every one got their own preferences.. For some it is Innova for us it can be only Aria and nothing else..

And I have a really good suggestion for those who consider the 3rd row seats to be cramped.. Just sit cross legged during long journeys
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:08   #293
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test drove the same vehicle that dark horizon drove at Wasan chembur mumbai an hr after him. Now like the white pearl also besides the two blacks expecially the night shade one.

Though it is not the Pride model that I am eyeing the test drive confirmed all I wished to check in the Aria, it exceeded all expectations. Mom loved it in the second row (safari was her earlier favourite).

Actually felt the build quality, features and ride etc, to be quite similar to my Laura - which actually speaks a lot about the Aria quality.

Better half (wifee) is not in town, waiting to have her get back so that I can book it ASAP - if she likes it. Actually liked the Aria more than the Fortuner as well due to the seating position - though nothing can beat the fortuner in looks.

Aria from a certain prespective seems to be a great deal at it's price. Though we would all have loved it to be price even better.

Getting back to the test drive - the showroom guys did not rush me at all. They let me take my time. I gave it a proper rip (as is my habbit - drive it in a lower gear than the speed demands - due to safari TCIC habbit) and it was fun and reved well, took it through bad bumps and rough roads and spead breakers at a decent speed and it felt composed and there was not a single rattle to be heard.

The smallish stearing wheel felt like that of a car, and as like the computer game stearing consoles. IT was fun.

Seats were firm and similar but larger than the Laura, and matched the safari for comfort while being firmer.

Last edited by ACM : 17th October 2010 at 01:10.
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Old 17th October 2010, 02:41   #294
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
If that be the case, why does TML plan to have the ESP "off" switch on its export models? Which special kind of driver are they targeting abroad that does not exist in India?
Well the kind of drivers, most of whom - not all - most, who will deter themselves form weaving back and forth through traffic at high speeds, who will ensure that when they overtake, the car in front of them as well as the one behind then knows about the same, and will usually change one lane at a time at high speeds.
It is unfortunate that I have to say this but it is true, it is appalling the way quite a few people drive their cars in India.
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Old 17th October 2010, 09:26   #295
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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Yup, this is what I was referring to. Although I didn't understand the 5'19" (6'7"?)
Mea Culpa! I meant 5'9" and not as posted. Thank you Velu, for pointing that out.
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Old 17th October 2010, 09:39   #296
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Both Tata and Mahindra never had a 15L+ vehicle in their stable.
So both set out to design one. Tata came up with a crossover/MUV type of vehicle. Mahindra is going for a SUV.
Anyways the next 6 months will tell whether it works or not.
But I feel on such a vehicle, when entering a new segment, Tata should have done what Hyundai did in the west.
Kia and Hyundai were always laggards to Toyota and Honda. Their cars were more VFM, but lacked the image factor.
So Hyundai started offering insane warranties.
10 year engine warranty, 4 year bumper to bumper warranty.

I feel Tata should offer atleast a 4 year 100,000kms warranty. Even if 1 owner in 100 gets a lemon(not an impossible chance, going by their track record), that owner will start to feel the pinch once warranty is over.

Second problem is the sensors and electronics. New Tata vehicles have always had some trouble. 3.0 Liter safari had those cam sensor related breakdowns, and 2.2. safari had that injector and rail pressure sensor issues. I hope the Aria does not have this, because this segment is a lot less tolerant than the 10L segment.

Lastly, I am a little amazed with the pricing and positioning is the way its slotted into the price band above the safari. When it comes to "image" and "perception", and "looks" the 15 year old safari still whips the Aria. But maybe I am biased because I am not a fan of Aria like van type looks.
That said, I am sure highway mileage will be better than the safari due to better aerodynamics
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Old 17th October 2010, 09:54   #297
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
With the Rs 3.2 lac differential between the Top End Tata Aria and the Fortuner, I believe that many people will prefer to make that stretch and acquire a Fortuner.
Ditto! I am in that boat. I considered Fortuner. Then held back to wait and see what else will come out. Now, done seeing Aria and formed initial impressions. Waiting for a TD. Also like many others here, waiting to see Santa Fe too.

Incidentally, why Fortuner instead of Aria after the launch? Broadly, it is a combination of reliability + appeal + performance. The saftey features were a big plus for Aria. However, on the appeal and reliability family and I scored it lower. And now that the prices are known, I agree with Shankar - it might be worth the stretch. In fact the question I had in mind was - what would you choose if you wanted to see India in a car - Fortuner or Aria? Yes that is a dream I have. So am tilting towards Fortuner. Saftey? Like Nilanjan, GTO and many others said, dont drive it like a sedan. So maybe with some luck and good driving I can counter it. Meanwhile, I continue to wait.
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Old 17th October 2010, 10:39   #298
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

1) There are two types of 15 - 19 lakh rupee customers : One who looks at value, the second who buys on brand or image. Can't wait to run an analysis on the upcoming quarter's sales figures. After all, it's only the paying customer's word that counts. Truly, he's the one putting his money where his mouth is.

2) Some other reviewers are harping about how the Aria is 200 - 300 kilos lighter than the Safari. Sorry to say, its an urban myth. Aria = 2145 kg (mid variant) and 2160 kg (top loaded). Safari 4x4 = 2170.

3) Tata said they have no plans for a 4x2 variant at the moment, despite the promise of lower cost, better FE etc.

4) 140 BHP is a conservative tune for this engine. Tata should have given it some more power, if for nothing else, to differentiate the Aria from the Safari.

5) On a related note, Iím surprised that the Sumo replacement isnít here yet. Long overdue. Why has Tata ignored the lucrative 6 - 8 lakh rupee utility vehicle segment for so long? Mahindra is having a field day!

6) I wonder why Tata didnít get rid of the boot altogether to maximize third row comfort? If so, the Aria would have been a true 7 seater (as in, 7 adults). At the least, a sliding option should have been provided to the 3rd row for versatility.

7) Cruise control is very responsive when driving on the expressway. You can easily control acceleration / deceleration with your left hand.
1) Agree with you. And in any case, a customer has a good option for people carrier in the form of Innova that is proven. Aria will have tough time. Moreover, at this price, some SUVs do step in. Who will not buy an SUV rather than Aria ? SUV will give them more image and presence than Aria. The pricing is real gambling. And the car is not fault free. A long distance machine without dead pedal ? And footwell does seem narrow.

Aria is not going to win any race for sales against the SUVs. I thought that Innova is priced a bit high. Now Aria makes me think that Innova is a good deal.

2) A real bad thing. Tata could have optimized here. I think that in future Tata will come up with a Rs. 17 -20 lakh SUV based on Aria's platform thats why then opted for body on chassis construction rather than monocoque.

3) I think that in future Tata will come up with lower versions. This is sort of Top down approach for product. First come up with high end version, then lower price ( reduce features, etc. ) and launch another variant.

4) The price will be major factor to differentiate Aria. Where tata will have tough time is justifying output similar to Safari. Some very mild overlap as far as engine is concerned. Tata could have gone to 20 more horses.
The customers will think that engine is a lift off from Safari and they are paying more for looks, features. Safari will look like VFM deal to them and the presence of Safari cannot be ignored.

5) IIRC, it was Tata first that came up with Spacio. Now Mahindra is ruling. More effort on Sumo replacement would be good. Grande sumo or mark 2 grande sumo is not successful. Tata is really losing the battle here.

6) Innova rear seats are more comfortable IMO. Tata should have focussed a bit more on rear seat and not on boot space that looks reasonably good with the three rows in place.

7) Is this feature really required ? How many expresshighways do we have that can actually utilize this feature ? A'bad-Vadodara is one, Mumbai-Pune another. In future traffic is sure to increase, so what is usefulness of Cruise control ? Its just personal feeling that Cruise control is almost next to useless in our driving conditions.

A few questions:

a) How is overall performance as compared to Innova in real life situations where most likely cruising on normal highways is going to be in the range of 90-110 kmph in general ? I know you have posted about engine and performance, but I am seriously concerned about how Innova vs Aria goes.

Here is a situation:
On a normal highway, there is a railway crossing. An Innova fully loaded slows down to cross bumps. The way Innova catches speed after slowing down for bumps is impressive even with full load. Does Aria have similar bottom end and linearity in power delivery ? I am aware from the review that after 1700 rpm there is good grunt, but in the above situation, how will you rate Innova and Aria.

I have a feeling that Innova's ratings are understated by toyota. I have noticed that after slowing down significantly, lets say from 80 to 20 kmph, Innova would pick up speed very quickly. On highways, I had to work out Baleno to match that pickup. Either Toyota has perfect state of tune or power figures are under rated IMO. I am impressed the way Innova picks up speed and maintains it there. In real world Innova does an excellent job. Does Aira manage the same or its like Curze where in after certain rpm the car would zoom off, but offer a relatively weak bottom end ?

If Aria does not offer Innova like response, its not good IMO.

b) Is gearing lower or higher than Innova ?
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:14   #299
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Read the road test of the Aria on motoroids. they say the vehicle is well worth the price & the quality level of the interior is unlike any other TATA car, save a few switches & knobs.

the only negatives they have mentioned are -

1) Third row lacks legroom
2) Engine has turbo lag, 0-100 kmph in 16.2 seconds
3) A few ergonomic issues
4) GPS not user friendly
5) Stability over 100 kmph is a suspect

Things i really liked after reading the review-

1) the skid pad on centre console for mobile phones
2) two CD players - one for music & the other exclusively for GPS, for loading maps!
3) information display on instrument console which reads "low washer fluid". AWESOME!
4) electric retract for ORVMs
5) Butterfly wipers
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Old 17th October 2010, 13:14   #300
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
1) Third row lacks legroom
5) Stability over 100 kmph is a suspect
For (1): I wonder why a sliding seat was not provided on the 3rd row. With so much of space in the boot, it would have definitely been possible.

For (2): This one is strange. If this was a SUV, I can understand, but for this fellow, I never expected the stability to be a concern, that too at around 100kmph.
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