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Old 19th October 2010, 12:03   #331
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
I think, the original poster meant, future versions of Safari based on X2. I have not heard any one mentioned about Sumo. But some news paper reports suggested a small crossover and mpv/minivan type of vehicle also planned. I think, the only approved one on X2 platform is the next Safari, the rest could be mere speculations by the media
Thanks for the clarification teamveevee! Read today a press report suggesting future Safari, Sumo and Xenon based on X2 platform.

In 2006, a report in Economic Times had mentioned that new Sumo based on a new platform will be styled by German design house IAV Gmbh. Tata had also engaged Concept Group of UK to design Xenon and its derivative Sumo-Grande but they aren't based on X2.

Check this:

Tata Group | Tata Motors | Media reports | German firm to design Tata MUV=
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Old 19th October 2010, 12:12   #332
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...I don't think anyone mentioned the lack of a dead pedal as a major buying criteria, can you point out a post? That said, it is most certainly a disadvantage, alongwith the narrow foot well and the way that the pedals are positioned...
Not able to get the post now; either my search is not right, or the post has been edited out. But do agree if the well is narrow it might be uncomfortable during long drive. But if the well space is something similar to that of the Safari, I do not expect it to be bad.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
...The Aria is sufficiently stable at high speeds. It feels nowhere as scary as the Safari & Scorpio do.


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Originally Posted by LobsterB View Post
...Thanks GTO, kaviprem, suman and others for the wishes. Hope to start my ownership thread this week itself
Looking forward to it, LobsterB!

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
...The companies would do this in a subtle manner ...
...
These things do happen - and there to me does not seem to be much wrong with it.
Yes, +1 to that. Even though the seating and coffee might be the same, the end line treatment is definitely different.
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Old 19th October 2010, 13:39   #333
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Yes, +1 to that. Even though the seating and coffee might be the same, the end line treatment is definitely different.
a bit OT (not good when i am alrady having an infraction!),

but talking about seating, our toyota A.S.S has a different waiting lounge for car owners & drivers.

car owner's lounge have unlimited supply of veg. sandwiches & a coffee/tea machine with a LCD TV.

driver's lounge has an old CRT TV with few biscuits & the canteen chap comes in regular intervals to serve hand made tea!
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Old 19th October 2010, 14:47   #334
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Happywheels / GTO

[quote=HappyWheels;2110423]Not able to get the post now; either my search is not right, or the post has been edited out. But do agree if the well is narrow it might be uncomfortable during long drive. But if the well space is something similar to that of the Safari, I do not expect it to be bad.
quote]

The Aria seating is closer to the Safari & also the G & M Class Mercs for that matter (almost errect (like in a chair at office)) than to the Endeavour, Fortuner and Innova - (more car like with the legs stretched out in front).

An Individual may like / prefer either forms of seating. Infact in the Aria at the lowest height positions the seating does become quite car like, while with the Seat height raised to Max it is definately closer to that of the Safari. While in the Fortuner or the Innova, however much one raises the height of the seat it still remains like in a car and one infact needs to keep the car max height a bit lesser than the Max to be able to see the dials through the Steering Oval.

In a car like seating position a Dead Pedal is a must - Am happy to have one as in the Laura but missed it in the Cielo. - My earlier car like seating position vehicles.

In vechiles where one is seating more verticaly like in the Safari and even the Aria, the dead pedal is not too essential as one tends to keep the left leg infront of the clutch rather than beside it when it is free.

The Aria footwell is wide enough (though narrower than in other vehicles) - a bit offset but one easilty gets used to it even in a short drive and since the dead pedal placed on the side is not required it is quite fine.

Infact in the Laura AT (which has cruise control) besides a dead pedal for the left leg (no clutch) there is a place besides the Accelerator (while use cruise control mode) on the right as well with a grip obviously designed for the leg to be rested while one is not pressing on the accelerator. In reality though while using the cruise mode, one tends to just fold the leg to give it a break for a while and then later keep in on this marked out space on the right.

Basically what I am trying to convey is that a dead pedal is not essential - it depends upon the seating position and when one is required to keep the free leg adjacent to the clutch then the footwell needs to be wider, but in the case of a chair like seating position it is more comfortable to keep the leg in front of the clutch while free.

It's a different take on the dead pedal and narrow foot well issue, but have formed the above openion after trying out the vehicles mentioned. Infact even in the G-Class Merc (AT) though I think there is a dead pedal - never used it and prefered to keep the leg in front of the clutch.

Somehow I don't think TATA would have goofed up on something so minor this time as an ergonomic seating position would be something that they would have worked on quite a bit for the Aria.

GTO - Thanks for the suggestions on buying a Luxary sedan rather than the Aria or Fortuner for myself.

The issue is that I already have the Laura AT, and still feel that nervous feeling in traffic - thanks to delicate blinkes, lights etc in Mumbai traffic. I feel where free while driving the Safari in Traffic and the size is not an issue as other cars move out of the way. Sometimes while driving the Laura one has a yeaning for a bigger (read taller) vehicle while having to give way to Taxi's, autos, and even other sedans. That feeling never happens in the Safari - Yet my TCIC Safari is not too long in the tooth. It's aged gracefully but the clutch etc are too hard now.

The fortuner definately must be loosing customer by not being freely available - and infact even that would be OK if it continued taking bookings atleast, but closing bookings can move a customer to another brand.
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Old 19th October 2010, 14:59   #335
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
...
In vechiles where one is seating more verticaly like in the Safari and even the Aria, the dead pedal is not too essential as one tends to keep the left leg infront of the clutch rather than beside it when it is free...
Same thought!

In all the long drives that I have driven my Safari I have never felt the need for a dead pedal. I just place my feet on the floor near the clutch or if it is a clear road ahead (with driver cruise controlling) fold my legs slightly.

This is definitely not possible when sitting low.

But, an OT question here: how many manual gear vehicles provide a dead pedal in India?
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Old 19th October 2010, 17:59   #336
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Originally Posted by LobsterB View Post
At lower speeds somehow felt the power delivery(inclusive of Turbolag) of Aria to be better than Figo's.
But obviously. The Aria has a larger engine, and way more torque; the way that the turbo is calibrated, lag is easily to manage & not an annoyance at all.

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Does Honda treat Jazz customers different from Accord's?
Quote:
Does Skoda differentiate between Fabia & Superb consumers?
Yes.

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Would Toyota treat Etios consumers different from Fortuner's?
Let the Etios launch, then we can comment. However, the key difference here is : Toyota service is generally good (it's ranked amongst the best in India) whichever the dealer (with few exceptions). Hardly the case for Tata.

I suggest you read my points on economy and business class again, as well as read the comments above my post (and in several threads across the forum). Premium customers DEMAND preferential treatment, that's a fact. I hope, for Tatas sake, they don't treat an Aria owner the same way they do a Nano.

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
GTO - Thanks for the suggestions on buying a Luxary sedan rather than the Aria or Fortuner for myself. The issue is that I already have the Laura AT
Ah, I missed that (though the post was made for others considering UVs <-> sedans too). You have a dynamically rich car in the Laura, as well as a traditional SUV, so probably know it better than I do
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Old 19th October 2010, 18:27   #337
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
...Toyota service is generally good (it's ranked amongst the best in India) whichever the dealer (with few exceptions). Hardly the case for Tata...
It would be fool hardy to compare the level of customer support to anything of the rest that the larger Indian public is used to.

We have multiple cases here itself where actions / follow-ups have been almost immediate. They have set a very high bench mark, which will get some great amount of work to reach but yes, all other manufacturers are trying and in process, getting a better experience to their customer (than what they were previously used to).

Competition is always good!
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Old 19th October 2010, 18:43   #338
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car owner's lounge have unlimited supply of veg. sandwiches & a coffee/tea machine with a LCD TV.

driver's lounge has an old CRT TV with few biscuits & the canteen chap comes in regular intervals to serve hand made tea!
This is surprising, None of the Toyota Centre's in Bangalore has such a facility.

I have visited couple of times to get my uncle's Innova back from service, never even got a glass of water served.

Yes they do have coffee/tea vending machines. Every A.S.C have them except Maruti.

While i am yet waiting for my TD.

Wonder "mera number kab aayega"

About the Seating position and comfort, its certainly much better than that of an Innova.

The material used (Mercedes Benz Tex-MB-TEX) has such a rich feel, this is something that is certainly not TATA. The paint finish too is notch better than what it is right now.
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Old 19th October 2010, 18:48   #339
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only one thing to say on this
the pricing is really high
i like the way the car looks in pictures - i appreciate greatly the work that has gone into it and the review details etc
but I cannot consider paying such a price for a brand that frankly has no cachet in the premium segment

it is easy to come down the ladder from premium to mass but very difficult to make the journey in reverse up the ladder from mass to premium

sorry but to me, the Aria just doesnt cut it.

cheers
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Old 19th October 2010, 19:30   #340
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Don't know about the examples sited by you, but Safari customers are treated different from a indica customer.
The other examples that you mention may actually be happening. The companies would do this in a subtle manner and of course not advertise it
Certain egs. can be given both ways but considering your first point, would the Indica owner feel good? What's the gain to the company, Indica sells more than Safari, its like compromising a high selling model for a dead horse!

Regarding 2nd point, people here want to suggest this to the company leave aside "subtle manner". The bottom line is, we want better service quality & not just a well packaged poor service.

Take eg. of some Safari owners on the forum who have suffered at the hands of poor Tata service. Would just doling out chocolates & picking/dropping with poor service have made the customer happier?

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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
The difference could be subtle in terms of how the Service Advisor/Supervisor behaves with the client.
Every company wants to treat their valuable customers better. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Over here the major market chunk is the small car buyer, one can't take that segment/customer for granted. Im all for equality but its strange, people themselves are advocating preferential treatment. This is the reason why VIP/Politicos/gundas rule the roost over here. There's just a hue & cry here & there to change the system but you get what you advocate!


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Let the Etios launch, then we can comment. However, the key difference here is : Toyota service is generally good (it's ranked amongst the best in India) whichever the dealer (with few exceptions). Hardly the case for Tata.
Premium customers DEMAND preferential treatment, that's a fact. I hope, for Tatas sake, they don't treat an Aria owner the same way they do a Nano.
If not Etios already, let it be Corolla vis Prado, no preferential treatment at all.
Not disputing the Toyota general standard(though have had poor exp. with them), still this is not the point. Tata needs to improve across the board & just for Aria's sake. Where would this place Indica/Sumo consumers? If you can't do 2+2=4, yo sure can't do 8+8=16.

"Premium customers", they better choose a "Premium brand" then!
Whether I buy a 2 Re toffee or a 100 Re chocolate, I would expect the same treatment form a shopkeeper.

The things you are suggesting, if they need ot be done in black & white, why not mention in bold letters in showrooms or while/before buying. Preferential treatment under the same roof will disappoint more than impressing some.

Equality always wins. Atleast preach if can't follow!
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Old 19th October 2010, 19:43   #341
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
only one thing to say on this
the pricing is really high
i like the way the car looks in pictures - i appreciate greatly the work that has gone into it and the review details etc
but I cannot consider paying such a price for a brand that frankly has no cachet in the premium segment

it is easy to come down the ladder from premium to mass but very difficult to make the journey in reverse up the ladder from mass to premium

sorry but to me, the Aria just doesnt cut it.

cheers
I do agree with your viewpoint based on history. However, it seems like TML has decided to move up the value chain.

Right from the launch of ARIA it seems to me that TML is trying to position itself as a luxury car maker. It may be because

1) ARIA could be the first product that "looks" much better than anything else by TML. (Similar to how ground breaking scorpio was for mahindra)
2) Since ARIA is a "very good" product according to TML they may be do not want to compete on price. TML may feel that a good product deserves good price
3) Probably with product positioning and improved customer service TML could pull it off because they have spent lot of time and money in testing ARIA. Hopefully it all pays off
4) Additional products from the same X2 platform and assembly line would be similar or better than ARIA. So this might spawn a new generation of vehicles from TML

Overall it seems like TML have turned a corner overnight with the launch of ARIA. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out in the next few months. IMO if ARIA sells about 2k - 2.5k per month, it could be called a success.
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Old 19th October 2010, 19:50   #342
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Default Aria in Trivandrum

Thank you for the great review GTO and Rehaan.

Aria was put on display today at Trivandrum, Kulathungal Motors near Toll junction Chakka bye-pass road. The car on display was the low end variant (Pleasure) with fabric trim. Every detail has been described in this thread so I am writing my observations only.

1,The car is huge.
2,Nice paint job.

3, Front seats were not very comfortable. It was smaller than the seats in ANHC.I liked Xylo’s seats better.

4, The design of third row seats is very poor.
5, The in-dash display is very small.
6, Plastic quality of the steering wheel in the base variant doesn’t look great.

7,The plastic quality of the dash is good.
8,Wide panel gaps between the rear door and the C pillar.
9,Price of the base variant ,on road Rs.14,46346!,Felt that now Innova V is VFM.

10,Lack of ABS and Airbags in the base variant is shocking.

Walked away from the dealership disappointed. My initial impression would have been better if I had seen the top end version. I think TATA has got it wrong this time. They will struggle to sell Aria at this price point. But we cannot predict anything in Indian market.
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Old 19th October 2010, 20:32   #343
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Well, definitely the differentiated positioning is not working, so far. I had put in a request for a TD the day the website was put up. So was waiting for someone to get in touch with me, having given my email id and phone number. I get a SMS from TML giving someone's name and number that they will get in touch with me for TD. All fine, am waiting. last wednesday I get a call from concorde bangalore (CB)
CB - Saar, you have booked for TD.
Me - yes, I have.
CB - Saar, all slots are booked, we can not give you TD before Monday.
Me - Ok, lets do it on tuesday morning. Give me a call and reconfirm.
CB -right saar. Meanwhile i can send you brochure and price list by email
Me - (thinking - wow, so what GTO has written is being implemented ) Sure sure, you got my email id ?
CB - yes sir. Thank you for your interest sir. we will call and get you TD on tuesday.

and then on saturday, I get a call from TML pune. and they check if someone has gotten in touch with me or not, and TD has been done, or promised. I told them yes.

Its 8.30 PM on a tuesday night, and I am still waiting for that call from the concorde which would have got me the TD.

I think , right or wrong positioning, there are lots of fence sitters who would want to stretch and go ahead with Aria. But its totally in TML's hands to convert them into loyal customers, or excited customers, or to make them stretch little more, and go to a different manufacturer.
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Old 19th October 2010, 20:47   #344
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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
9,Price of the base variant ,on road Rs.14,46346!,Felt that now Innova V is VFM.
+1 here. Tata has done Toyota a favor with this pricing. Innova V which to everyone was overpriced for the kit it carried now looks VFM. This despite the lower localization in the Innova. Toyota now no longer need to move to local supplier and can fully concentrate on Etios.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
10,Lack of ABS and Airbags in the base variant is shocking.
Not sure if this is true.

Last edited by kapss : 19th October 2010 at 20:48. Reason: Spell mistake
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Old 19th October 2010, 21:03   #345
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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
9,Price of the base variant ,on road Rs.14,46346!,Felt that now Innova V is VFM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapss View Post
+1 here. Tata has done Toyota a favor with this pricing. Innova V which to everyone was overpriced for the kit it carried now looks VFM. This despite the lower localization in the Innova. Toyota now no longer need to move to local supplier and can fully concentrate on Etios.
In this case TML should wait for some other car to be priced at 18 Lakhs off road to make ARIA VFM

I am not sure I follow this logic. If ARIA is overpriced, it is overpriced. This should not make Innova VFM. You may choose to get the lesser of the two weevils but that does not make one better than the other. It is you (the buyer) who are making the bad choice for wrong reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
10,Lack of ABS and Airbags in the base variant is shocking.

Walked away from the dealership disappointed. My initial impression would have been better if I had seen the top end version. I think TATA has got it wrong this time. They will struggle to sell Aria at this price point. But we cannot predict anything in Indian market.
All ARIA variants currently on sale - Pleasure, Prestige and Pride have atleast 2 airbags and ABS as standard.
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