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Old 12th October 2010, 12:56   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Does Tata mention that the 4x2 (turning off the 4x4 torque transfer system)option helps to save fuel and improve FE?
I believe the transfer case de-couples the front drive-shaft in the 2WD mode, which will lead to 100 torque going to the rear (as compared to the Rear:Front 90:10 minimum in 4x4). This should lead to better FE, but I'm not sure if it is mentioned.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Is there an option (switch) to turn off the ESP and traction control systems as well?
Here's GTO's quote clarifying this:

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Other Points:
• Traction control can be switched off in the export variant; not so in the Aria sold here. Been removed since the time the Aria was shown at the Auto Expo. Tata felt it would be misused, better safe than sorry.

Last edited by VeluM : 12th October 2010 at 12:58.
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Old 12th October 2010, 12:59   #62
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Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Did Tata divulge their sales targets with this one? How many do they intend to sell per month?
I don't recall this being mentioned - however, their max production capacity for the Aria is 2500-3000 units per month.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...not allowing a full-fledged road test to showcase not-yet-available-in-India features like full-time 4WD, TC and ESP.
Just to clarify - we were allowed to do what we wanted with the car. See the video posted a few replies earlier where Motorbeam has taken the Aria off the road for a bit.

Though ofcourse, if they had done something like the Mercedes stardrive safety demo (Mercedes Safety Tech Demo - At the Mumbai Airstrip) or the 4x4 demo (Demonstration of 4x4 Tech at the "Mercedes StarDrive Event"), it would have gone a long way in helping to prove the safety and SUV-ness of the Aria, that Tata is trying hard to push.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...The engine appears to be transversely mounted, so one would expect front-wheel-drive with torque transfer to the rear wheels when loss of traction occurs for the front wheels - however, you state the reverse, i.e. rear drive with torque transfer to front wheels in case the rears lose grip. Could you please reconfirm on the driveline setup again?
Fairly certain. Though will reconfirm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...Does Tata mention that the 4x2 (turning off the 4x4 torque transfer system)option helps to save fuel and improve FE?
No such mention was made, though ofcourse the question was asked. There was no proven answer readily available, so they didn't mention even a ballpark figure.

However, think about it this way -- additional driveline components = additional mass to rotate + additional rotational inertia, regardless of whether they are connected at the engine side, wheel side, or both (engaged).

If you disengage the front drive at the electronic clutch, youre still rotating all those parts with the engine's power (rearwheels>road>frontwheels>front-drive components), so you're still doing a large part of that work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...Is there an option (switch) to turn off the ESP and traction control systems as well?
As mentioned, the option to turn ESP off will be present on export models, and was present on the car shown at the Auto Expo -- however, Tata decided to take the safe route and prevent these systems from being turned off, as they are fairly new and unknown systems in India. Probably a wise move.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 12th October 2010 at 13:07.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:16   #63
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Fantastic review!

Reliability (no niggles + speedy correction) will be a big factor. I had decided that I will never buy a Tata vehicle again in my life after getting fed up with the issues that I had with my Indica (no driver, so I have to run around everytime to the service centre - big pain for a salaried person). Perhaps things will improve. But even Land rovers have frequent issues, as per feedback - so not sure what plans Tata has to match Japanese reliability.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:19   #64
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Quite a good product, might look a bit overpriced, but i think tata is trying to break out form the VFM pricing and improve its brand outlook. Anything that is priced higher always commands more respect - be it cars or carrots... the more expensive it is, the more people are drawn to it. It becomes a status thing. But one thing they really need to class up on is their service centers.

I was there last week and I must say that the service was fine, but rubbing shoulders with drivers and low class people in their waiting room totally put me off. Would I want to pay 15 lacs odd and be treated to such an audience? Don't think so. One other thing that tata stations lack is the polished people - be it the sales or the service staff, the people give off a very bad image and do not carry the brand well. They cant speak proper english, don't wear the right uniforms.

Overall tata has made a big leap in terms of their vehicles over the last two years starting with the Vista, but they need to put together their front end act as well. Revamp the service and sales teams and bring in some polished people, younger crowd, good uniform, good couch. Branch off all Indica taxi service appointments to designated service centers catering to non-premium crowd. Brand better should be the mantra and then they will see their image improve and sales sky rocket.

Last edited by vista_qjd : 12th October 2010 at 13:21.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:25   #65
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Rehaan and Rush,
Which vehicle, do you think is more overpriced? The Aria or the Fortuner?
Also, is the Aria's engine mounted longitudinally or transversely? Did you ask TML if their ASCs have been provided with any different SLAs for Aria customers vis-a-vis other customers? Does the Aria have any extended warranty options?
I felt that the Safari's seating position gave me a better view of the road compared to the Aria. Do you concur?

And yes, thank you for the crisp review
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:28   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
I believe the transfer case de-couples the front drive-shaft in the 2WD mode... This should lead to better FE...
Is there a transfer case at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
No such mention was made, though ofcourse the question was asked. There was no proven answer readily available, so they didn't mention even a ballpark figure.
FE improvement by how much is what we'd like to have Tata tell us. If there's no FE advantage, that switch should not exist at all!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Here's GTO's quote clarifying this:
Sorry, missed that.
Indeed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Fairly certain. Though will reconfirm.
Thanks in advance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
As mentioned, the option to turn ESP off will be present on export models...
Tata decided to take the safe route and prevent these systems from being turned off...
Driver / user education would be the key here. As I said...
Quote:
The Indian perception is that any 4WD is an off-roader, but this one certainly is not - it's a soft-roader at best, despite the huge 200mm GC. There is no low-ratio transfer case available in the Aria.
...the Indian car-buying public is quite averse to buying a so-called 4WD/AWD vehicle, as Honda discovered earlier with their CR-V.

Last edited by Rehaan : 12th October 2010 at 14:07. Reason: placing first reply after appropriate quote.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:44   #67
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Wonderful review.

Looks good to me from most angles. Definitely tempting but pricey. At Rs.17L+ I would want the 2.2L motor in a different (more powerful) spec from the Safari. That's a turn-off for me. I would say that at production levels of 2500 a month, they are being quite optimistic.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:45   #68
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Default Great review - once again

>>>

Three cheers for the three musketeers who have reviewed this significant car from the Tata stables (and given prospective buyers among us a ringside view of whether the Aria checks all the right boxes for us or not) :

GTO, Rehaan and flyingspur

Quote:
Originally Posted by civicsense View Post
Great job again GTO!! Great review!!

Here's my take on the pricing strategy.

I think Aria is a bold (and risky) move by Tata.

only if they make the overall experience of ownership of this car significantly better than the other models..includes initial quality, buying experience, long term reliability and service experience.

the price they are quoting will not seem so steep.
>>>

Bold and risky? I doubt that.

Overall experience is the key - absolutely correct.

Initial purchase price - important yes. Important to the devaluation of other points - assuredly no. Perceptions on price will be determined by Aria's post purchase performance, as with all cars.

At the end of the day, the Aria will stand or fall, not on the basis of our current perceptions on Tata's initial purchase price or VFM quotient alone, but also on the returns that a prospective buyer/user gets in terms of

i. passenger comfort in city and highway drives
ii. mechanical reliability
iii. ease, quality and cost of after sales service
iv. availability and cost of spares

So if this is proved to be true, the Tatas are not straying far from their conceptual territory, merely adding a premium sheen to their image.

This upward climb seems to be evolutionary, not revolutionary, festina lente (make haste, slowly). Which makes eminent sense.

I do not see hoards of Pajero,Fortuner or Freelander guys queuing up for the Aria. I see the Innova/Bolero/Safari/Xylo guy/prospective guy moving upscale to the Aria, provided offroading is not the most important reason for purchase.

Regards, drive safe

Last edited by issigonis : 12th October 2010 at 13:47. Reason: Made corrections
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:46   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Is there a transfer case at all?
Yes there is - don't forget the Buildadreamcar assembly line
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:49   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Is there a transfer case at all?
Has to be to achieve 4x4, doesn't there? Plus I saw it when building the "Dream Car"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...the Indian car-buying public is quite averse to buying a so-called 4WD/AWD vehicle, as Honda discovered earlier with their CR-V.
Not sure, but I thought the CR-V sells quite well? See enough of them in Bangalore, for sure.
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Old 12th October 2010, 13:50   #71
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Default Pricing is perfectly allright

Why there is hue and cry for pricing? I feel pricing is perfectly allright and it will help Tata to create and fill hollow between 13 Lakh and 19 Lakh with this crossover SUV. People want all bells and whistles with prices equal to Innova, Common.

These prices are decided by team of management who study market extensively, mere once perception would not work. With so many features and customization I feel current pricing is a stealer. AWD, Navigation, Improved Interior, Tons of space, Good engine, Climate Control etc features would push this car to market and definitely there would be buyer.

Do not compare it with Xylo or Innova. Lets see at Fortuner and beyond.

Very nice and crisp review of Aria put on by GTO.
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Old 12th October 2010, 14:01   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Why there is hue and cry for pricing? I feel pricing is perfectly allright and it will help Tata to create and fill hollow between 13 Lakh and 19 Lakh with this crossover SUV. People want all bells and whistles with prices equal to Innova, Common.
Aria not only has the bells and whistles. It has the bells, whistles and horns. The list of features is so long that it is hard to count the number of features.
Even I don't think it is overpriced at all.
But I think the price is going too close to Fortuner.

It would be interesting to see:
Aria vs Fortuner
just like
Linea T-Jet vs ANHC


Both are similar competitions.

A quote from my earlier post BTW. My statement may change after seeing Aria in actual on the roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddleShifter View Post
I think the price of this car is justified for the features it carries. TATA has really put some good features and some are really creative (Air-Con vents on B-pillar).


Ex-Showroom price(Chandigarh) is competitive.
But nothing beats the Fortuner in terms of looks and road presence (just my personal opinion).
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Old 12th October 2010, 14:09   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddleShifter View Post
Even I don't think it is overpriced at all.
But I think the price is going too close to Fortuner.
AFAI can see, the top end Aria would still be Rs 3.50 lacs cheaper on-road than the Fortuner, at least in Gurgaon.
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Old 12th October 2010, 14:20   #74
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Hmmm... Very very good review GTO & Rehaan. 5 Star as always.

I guess Tata has priced it too high. They should have launched in 10-14 lacs bracket with some features cut off as mentioned by GTO. Some features are good but not everybody uses all of them. At the end of the day it comes to volume. I dont think Tata can sell more than 200-300 cars per month. I hope i go wrong Being it a Tata product i am proud of it.
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Old 12th October 2010, 14:29   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
AFAI can see, the top end Aria would still be Rs 3.50 lacs cheaper on-road than the Fortuner, at least in Gurgaon.
Weren't you saying that Aria would never be priced even close to the fortuner. Tata is simply looking to increase profit margins by launching cars perceived to be premium.
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