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Old 12th October 2010, 18:38   #106
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Originally Posted by anu21v View Post
With all the Due Respect to Tata Brand, I think for the very first time Tata has messed up on the pricing of this product with all the leverage it has upon
Why should Tata do that ? Doing so will only eat into the profits of the supplying group company. And is not standard business practice.
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Old 12th October 2010, 18:49   #107
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@GTO : One question. Your review was mostly positive towards the Aria. Yet in the end you said that the product is not worth its price. Thats confusing
Excellent question! I am impressed with the Aria as an overall product. As with any vehicle, it has its list of pros and cons. However, what I am NOT impressed with is the price. I feel the Aria is atleast 2.5 lakh rupees overpriced. I am also not sure if Tata will be able to provide an A+ after-sales experience or niggle free 100,000 kms. While the quality is a giant leap ahead for Tata, it does NOT have the fit, finish or finesse one expects from a 17.50 lakh rupee vehicle. And for all the multi-seating talk, try fitting an adult into the last row. Fact is, the Aria can seat only 5 adults....just like most other sedans.

For those looking at a workhorse / MPV / 7 passenger, the Innova suddenly does NOT feel overpriced. Unless one needs AWD, the Innova remains the best MPV in India.

Quote:
a product how do you rate Aria on a scale of 1-10?
7.0 / 10, after taking price into consideration.

Last edited by GTO : 12th October 2010 at 18:52.
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Old 12th October 2010, 19:02   #108
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Default Nice Crisp Report

Thanks for the nice crisp report.
Being a customer of TML's earlier top of the line refreshed antique = Safari 2.2 VTT 4x4.. here are a few thoughts from me.

It does look like Tata has taken a leap in the right direction.
BUt while offering a premium product in the 14-17 lakh price range i feel they should have ensured that no stone was left unturned.
Its sad to see;
Some poor fitting interiors. Panel gaps and plastic quality still somewhat lacking.
I feel the engine should have been beefed up, atleast to differentiate it from the Safari. I personally would have liked to see 160-180 horses with a top end of 180-190 kph.. especially since it comes with disc brakes all around, ESP, fulltime 4wd,etc and conforms to European crash test regs.
The 2.2 engine still faces niggles which I hope TML has managed to completely sort out.
Im not very sure of TML's service turnaround time for the Aria. Given the same engine, it takes them way too long for them to properly diagnose(if at all they can) and troubleshoot issues below the bonnet. I feel the customer in this price category will NOT appreciate long turnaround times and incompetent servicing where one has to revisit to fix what was broken.

Service is going to be one very important factor for the Aria because a premium customer will demand and expect performance and quality service with quick turnaround.

And primarily the vehicle has to be TOTALLY niggle free, which Im not really sure of because I feel TML has a long way to go to ensure coming close to Japanese QC; and QC is what ensures a vehicle being niggle free not to mention good design & engineering wich seems good on the Aria.

So will I put my money down on this Tata.

NO. NOT YET.
Not till I see a NIGGLE FREE Tata with quick & quality service turnaround.

Goodluck TATA. Im still waiting.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 12th October 2010 at 19:04.
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Old 12th October 2010, 19:23   #109
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Well this is another positive leap by Tata. The car is now the "flagship" for Tata and it deserves to be.

Its the focus on safety features that impress me most . Airbags , ABS , EBD ,ESP , traction control . This is a step in the right direction .

The fit and finish looks good , the interiors look well put together and I hope they last .

I find the missing dead pedal hard to stomach . This is a 15+ lakh car .

The headlamp cluster looks awesome . The rear is boring . Front does have character .

The real challenge would be sales, service and reliability . Happy owners is the best advertisement / publicity .

The Tuscon , Vitara etc have failed in this segment . Though brimming with features , gizmos and quality this market (15 lac+) would be a tough nut to crack for Tata .

And finally a big thanks to GTO & Rehaan for the outstanding review .

Last edited by KRf1 : 12th October 2010 at 19:25.
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Old 12th October 2010, 19:44   #110
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Folks I think Tata has done a good job overall with this vehicle!

As far as the pricing goes, my 2 cents here:

- no one can beat tata as far as the dealer and service network is concerned. I would like to highlight that a semi urban buyer expects better A.S.S. but not as much as a mature reader here would.

- there is a huge market for premium MUVs in the semi-urban & rural markets where people want a good vehicle but not having to drive 200 kms for a service.

- there are a lot of 'netas' & the likes who would love this vehicle for a regular 'abuse' vehicle specially with the warranty being offered. If I were in their place I would trust the 'chamchas' with an Aria rather than a Fortuner.

- last but not the least i think tata would also need to do something like this to change the perception and move up the value chain... given the catch 22 it is; it would be better to try it with a vehicle at this price point rather than make the manza compete with a vento.ac

- I dont think Tata would anyways look at a VFM position or the numbers game. The new Safari is anyways around the corner for that.

Hope this makes sense!
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Old 12th October 2010, 19:59   #111
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Great review.

Would like to have more technical details of the traction control/ ESP/ 4x4 system. Is this a bought out (whose?), or in house development. IMHO, there are high chances of dissatisfaction with the GBox. Then Aria -> Dirge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The Indian perception is that any 4WD is an off-roader, but this one certainly is not - it's a soft-roader at best, despite the huge 200mm GC. There is no low-ratio transfer case available in the Aria.

I too would like to know the thinking behind opting for 4x4. Other reason for (sophisticated) 4x4 is handling. But 140 bhp rwd is not a problem at all. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

A few quick technical questions:

The engine appears to be transversely mounted, so one would expect

If you check the pictures of the engine given in the e-brochure, you'll find that the engine cover axis is square to the crank axis. Cause for confusion. So traditional NS orientation.
Incidentally the W201 is supposed to have a transverse layout. I'm now wondering about that too.


Does Tata mention that the 4x2 (turning off the 4x4 torque transfer system)option helps to save fuel and improve FE?

Will it?
The Motorbeam video: Either it was in 4x2 mode, or (most likely) it has freewheeling front hubs. If so WHY?

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Old 12th October 2010, 20:03   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Why should Tata do that ? Doing so will only eat into the profits of the supplying group company. And is not standard business practice.
Well its not as if this practice bends any croporates laws. Lets be fair here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manas View Post
I appreciate your objective approach. But I'd like to add in my points as below:
First things first: TML has been working on the (now)Aria for at least 5 years now. The NPI (New Product Introduction) for Aria would have started way back then. We all agree upon the fact that the product is non-competitively priced, however, TML (due to whatever reasons) has invested more than double the time it is taken internationally to introduce new platforms.
Couldn't Agree more

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Originally Posted by Manas View Post
TML doesn't buy steel for Autumotive body panels from either of the above.
Hard to digest though why it wouldnt do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manas View Post
many a times, TACO, TJC etc and others have had to setup new facilities to cater to the new requirements. e.g. a new line was setup for the assembling & JIT delivery of the following assemblies for Vista : Front end module, Dashboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manas View Post
Tata acquired a European design house (now christened TMETC : Tata Motors European Technical Center) and TTL is used more for back-end designing roles. Even the ERC was headed (last I knew) by a TMETC guy. TTL doesn't have the expertise and experience tht meets TML's requirements and hence, TML has had to use external consultancy services (Dürr, e.g.) which drives costs up. It is another thing that Dürr itself has outsourced the required designing to TTL engineers stationed within TML premises. lol
Well appreciated facts. Quite agree with you that it must have driven Engineering cost up for Tatas. But still no where near the other competitions. Read in this thread somewhere How Tata's total Engg. Budget was still less than the Royalties paid by Maruti on just the K-Series engines.

My point was loud and clear, TML accumulated all those synergies when they were targetting a Rs 1 Lakh tag for Nano, but it didnt do the same while coming up with this top of the line segment best product. Which is why the pricing looks higher than what was expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manas View Post
Oh Lets not be THAT harsh on the Tatas so as to call Aria a lurking disaster !
As long as the sales plan is not as lofty as the prices, it wont be a disaster.

As far pricing is concerned look at the assesment of the GTO below, I couldn't agree more. This was my whole point trying to figure why even after having so much of synergies Tata couldnt get the price right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Excellent question! I am impressed with the Aria as an overall product. As with any vehicle, it has its list of pros and cons. However, what I am NOT impressed with is the price. I feel the Aria is atleast 2.5 lakh rupees overpriced. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
For those looking at a workhorse / MPV / 7 passenger, the Innova suddenly does NOT feel overpriced. Unless one needs AWD, the Innova remains the best MPV in India. .
I am not sure how much RD's departure and KPF's arrival has to do with that sort of pricing


But i would sure be happy for Tata's if the product succeeds. Matter of National pride you see.

Last edited by anu21v : 12th October 2010 at 20:15.
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Old 12th October 2010, 20:08   #113
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Just came back after having a very short and quick TD(just moving car back and forth) as showroom was almost closing. Most of the time i spent inside the car exploring around with engine started.
Following are some observations
Good Part
1. Since looks are always subjective, exterior looks very good to me and my wife
2. Like the antenna placement, something new to me.
3. AC is really effective
4. There is almost no engine noise that i can hear inside the cabin
5. First and Second Row seating is also very good.
6. Boot space also seems to be fine (comparing with Innova)

Now the Bad part
1. The whole body was like shaking(though little) in idle position with AC on, something i could really sense while sitting on passenger seat. Not sure if this normal for diesel engine.
2. Didn't like the black and plum color combination and also seat texture.
3. Plastic quality was only acceptable, nothing great about it. Innova's quality seems much better.
4. There was a strange sound that i could hear while increaing the blower speed. according to the executive, this was normal and he advised me to keep the setup in Auto mode.

Will have TD tommorrow over highway for a long distance
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Old 12th October 2010, 20:20   #114
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First of all for excellent review.
After going through this thread, looks like majority thinks Aria is overpriced and the main reason why it cannot be a Rs. 13 lakh + vehicle is its being Tata.

Well if Tata can find ~1.5K (per month) customers shelling out Rs. 7.6-12lakh for their decade old Safari why it wont for 13-16lakh worth, filed to brim, Aria?

By the way I feel export numbers will be more then what they will sell here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
7.0 / 10, after taking price into consideration.
Isn't that a very good rating?

Last edited by HammerHead : 12th October 2010 at 20:23.
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Old 12th October 2010, 20:40   #115
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Excellent review Rush and Rehaan. Tata has really come a long way from the Tata Estate to the Tata Aria. The JLR takeover was one of the best things to happen to TATA and this really shows in the Aria. The build quality of the interior and the exterior have vastly improved over the years and now the other Tata models will have a new benchmark.

Although if we look at just the brand - its too much to pay for a Tata MUV. But if we actually compare the Aria as a whole to the Innova - it offers more features and options (safety as well as comfort) than the Innova. So it seems to be worth every rupee. But along with the car - you also have to live with the Tata A.S.S which may not be as good as Toyota. I guess once Tata takes care of all the non-Aria related niggles, they have a winner on their hand.

Once again excellent and very detailed review Rush & Rehaan.
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Old 12th October 2010, 21:05   #116
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Wonderful review, rated it 5*. I liked the detail and comparisons with Scorpio (as I am a Scorpio aspirant) Looks like my routes are clear for the Scorpio now. 19L MUV (AWD), I am not for it. Thanks for the excellent review once again (both GTO & Rehaan)

Let us see how it sells in the next quarter or so.

Quote:
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The Smaller but Significant things:
Rear seat recline controls are awkwardly positioned, right next to the neck restraints. Thus, you have to reach over your shoulder to adjust:
May be if a third person is to adjust the seat recline, it would help. Though I am not sure of how it works nor I had a chance to use this kind of recline controls.

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Old 12th October 2010, 21:17   #117
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The one gripe that I honestly cannot understand is the one about how the last row will not seat Adults in comfort.

So what Guys? TML are not projecting this as a people mover - they are rather projecting this as a family mover. A crossover where the family & their luggage can travel without feeling cramped. Makes sense.

Especially when you consider the fact that, in an average family, there wouldn't be SEVEN adults.To me, this vehicle is more than adequate for a family of 5 Adults (including Grandparents & one older child) & 2 Children....with oodles of boot space

This is NOT a Taxi Guys

Last edited by suman : 12th October 2010 at 21:18.
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Old 12th October 2010, 21:22   #118
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Originally Posted by abhi1881 View Post
4. There was a strange sound that i could hear while increaing the blower speed. according to the executive, this was normal and he advised me to keep the setup in Auto mode.
Ah! That's the usual, typical response.. hey, we are back to square one.
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Old 12th October 2010, 21:46   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
The one gripe that I honestly cannot understand is the one about how the last row will not seat Adults in comfort.

So what Guys? TML are not projecting this as a people mover - they are rather projecting this as a family mover. A crossover where the family & their luggage can travel without feeling cramped. Makes sense.

Especially when you consider the fact that, in an average family, there wouldn't be SEVEN adults.To me, this vehicle is more than adequate for a family of 5 Adults (including Grandparents & one older child) & 2 Children....with oodles of boot space

This is NOT a Taxi Guys
I wonder how the 3rd row compares to say Fortuner or Captiva or Outlander, which the Aria seems to be priced against.

Also, I wonder which 3 row UV has the most space behind the 3rd row.

Last edited by FourWheelDrift : 12th October 2010 at 21:50.
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Old 12th October 2010, 22:06   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
The one gripe that I honestly cannot understand is the one about how the last row will not seat Adults in comfort.

So what Guys? TML are not projecting this as a people mover - they are rather projecting this as a family mover. A crossover where the family & their luggage can travel without feeling cramped. Makes sense.

Especially when you consider the fact that, in an average family, there wouldn't be SEVEN adults.To me, this vehicle is more than adequate for a family of 5 Adults (including Grandparents & one older child) & 2 Children....with oodles of boot space

This is NOT a Taxi Guys
i wont agree to that. consider my family -

my parents + my brother + his wife + their child + a driver (if any) occupies the front two rows which leaves me occupying the third row. i am 6'2" tall & i am very comfortable in a xylo's 3rd row & moderately comfortable in innova's, but what in the Aria?

I am sure there are many families like ours in which the parents maybe replaced by grandparents or the driver maybe some uncle! why not just move the last row behind & make it usable atleast? whats the use of the boot if we were to make just a local trip with family & without luggage? whats the use of the last row if adults cannot sit there? atleast in innova, the third row bench can be folded 50:50 & so half of the rear bench can be occupied by one adult & the remaining half can be folded & used to carry luggage. thats more practical, aint it?

my full family with one relative has done a trip from mumbai to karnataka & back in the innova, along with all our luggage. i was in the third row with a cousin. still we had space to stow our luggage in the innova - couple of soft bags. more importantly, both me & my cousin were comfortable in the last row for the 6 hour journey. that wont be possible in the Aria. So what if its not a taxi or people mover? its a family car meant to carry 7 in comfort. Tata mentions the Aria is a 7 seater, so make it a proper 7 seater, else just say its a 5 seater + 2 kids as bonus! so definitely, the innova & xylo is a better family vehicle, IF your family is big like ours!

and i am very sure the third row space would be a turn off for many potential buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
Also, I wonder which 3 row UV has the most space behind the 3rd row.
Xylo, undoubtedly.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 12th October 2010 at 22:12.
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