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Old 12th June 2013, 08:37   #1231
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
It is impossible to fix this when the car is being put together on the same assembly line as the Manza and Vista. Forget about it. For Fiat India, this ain't the reason the car is not selling. On a different note, my car has not run much but in 13000km, there is not a squeak or rattle from anywhere. For the most part, the quality of materials used are very acceptable. Its the Grande Punto that struggles in interior appointments. It is low rent even on the Sport. Unacceptable for a top of the line hatch.



Yes it is. The incredible turning radius does not help matters as well. I used to struggle with this in the early days. Not any more.



Relieved to see this number. I paid a shade under 10lac on road when I bought my car so I still managed a cheaper deal. Some have got it a lot cheaper too.
13K is nothing i know of a Linea with 1.05L kms on Odo,and there is not even a squeak or a rattle,however the glove box and plastic quality issue is a different story
Heck mine is at 75K without a single rattle.
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Old 12th June 2013, 10:25   #1232
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
however the glove box and plastic quality issue is a different story
I don't have any major concerns with the quality of plastics. Yes; there are some really cheap bits here and there. Its the way they have fitted them that is terrible in some places. The T Jet had the best feel among all the newer Fiats launched in India. The surface quality of the dashboard is way better than any other Fiat car.

You see the same rough edges in the Manza/Vista and as a result of using the exact same moulding process, this is spilling over in to Fiat cars too. Very sad considering the older generation Fiats had far superior materials, fit and finish.
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:31   #1233
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
It is impossible to fix this when the car is being put together on the same assembly line as the Manza and Vista. Forget about it. For Fiat India, this ain't the reason the car is not selling. On a different note, my car has not run much but in 13000km, there is not a squeak or rattle from anywhere. For the most part, the quality of materials used are very acceptable. Its the Grande Punto that struggles in interior appointments. It is low rent even on the Sport. Unacceptable for a top of the line hatch.
Hi @sandeepmohan

Aren't the Fiat facilities in Pune being used for production of Manza & Vista? If yes, isn't it FIAL responsibility to iron out its problems with supplies from vendor (s), & also, Tata should be excused for producing badly appointed interiors in these 2 cars.
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:52   #1234
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

Fiat isn't exactly known to give the best quality of interior fit and finish even abroad. Ill-fitted dash panels are a common complaint on Fiats even by reviewers in Europe. I don't think it is one of their strong areas to begin with, so I wouldn't blame Fiat India alone. It runs in their genes. Maybe their QC process doesn't list dash panel fit and finish, so the technicians probably just ignore the panel gaps during production. Just a wild guess.

I'd have to agree with Sandeepmohan partly - The Linea's plastics are not really tacky. There are 2 parts to it - one is the black panel on the top part which is good, the beige lower part feels a little cheap in comparison and could do better, but I wouldn't call them tacky. In unison they are pretty much acceptable, but it is the way they are fitted with panel gaps showing that makes the interiors look poorly put together. The Punto's plastics have some dirty grey in place of beige, I call that part as bathroom grade. Those grey parts look downright hideous, the color itself looks unappealing (I wonder who approved such colors in their design team), and could do with a major dash layout overhaul. I'd have been really happy if the entire dash was all black, with the same premium black material used on the top portion.

The Linea's interiors are definitely acceptable and do feel upmarket, but they need to get the panel alignment gaps ironed out properly and not leave out exposed edges or glaring gaps anywhere.

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Aren't the Fiat facilities in Pune being used for production of Manza & Vista? If yes, isn't it FIAL responsibility to iron out its problems with supplies from vendor (s), & also, Tata should be excused for producing badly appointed interiors in these 2 cars.
FIAPL (the FIAT representative company which existed prior to the Tata-Fiat split this year) was a 50:50 joint venture between Tata motors and Fiat S.p.A, Italy. So you could say both were equally to blame for the poor plastic finish.

Now after the split, if Fiat continues to source plastics from the same (cheap) vendor or ignores the panel gaps again, they clearly are repeating old mistakes. If they were really concerned about fixing the interior fit issues, they ought to have done a better job after the split. They don't have a punching bag (Tata) to use now for excuses.

Last edited by KarthikK : 12th June 2013 at 14:04.
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Old 12th June 2013, 14:24   #1235
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
....the car is being put together on the same assembly line as the Manza and Vista.....
Is this true even now after Fiat/Tata have split?
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Old 12th June 2013, 14:32   #1236
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

Well, there seem to be a few components of the dash which just dont seem to fit well at all. There are three in particular, the panel below the headlamp adjust buttons, the steering column surrounding panels and the glove-box lid, which are almost always a problem. But the sheer number of cars which have these ill-fitting leads me to think its more of a design or manufacturing issue rather than just quality control. In fact if you look at the old Grande Puntos of Europe too, you will find these exact same problems.


The plastic quality too is not upto today's standard. But the reason for that in my view is the slow management of FIAT. Remember the dash we get here in India was available on Grande Puntos in Europe since 2005. At that time the plastic quality may have been acceptable, but its not so today. This issue will only go away when the new dashboard makes an appearance.

As for blaming Tata for this, that would be unfair. You can blame Tata for FIAT's part sourcing. Remember FIPL doesnt actually make these parts, it just screws them on at their factory. And I doubt FIAT sourced all their parts from Tata vendors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post

FIAPL (the FIAT representative company which existed prior to the Tata-Fiat split this year) was a 50:50 joint venture between Tata motors and Fiat S.p.A, Italy. So you could say both were equally to blame for the poor plastic finish.

Now after the split, if Fiat continues to source plastics from the same (cheap) vendor or ignores the panel gaps again, they clearly are repeating old mistakes. If they were really concerned about fixing the interior fit issues, they ought to have done a better job after the split. They don't have a punching bag (Tata) to use now for excuses.
FIPL(Fiat India Pvt Limited), ie the JV between Fiat Spa and TML still exists and owns the Ranjangaon factory which assembles the Fiat cars and makes Fiat engines for Fiat, Tata and Maruti. The only change that has come about is Tata no longer assembles their cars at this facility anymore. Considering Tata's sales numbers, they can probably manage assembly at their own facilities anyway.

The FIAT-Tata split was only a sales and after-sales split and not a manufacturing split. FIPL was and remains a 50:50 JV. So Tata remains a partner in the manufacturing of Fiat cars in India, and is likely to remain so at least for the near future.

FIAT Spa Italy has floated a separate fully owned subsidiary called Fiat Group India Ltd, which will now handle all sales and after-sales activities for Fiat Group cars. This company will source the Punto and Linea from FIPL. Its a bit like the arrangement Nissan and Renault have in India, ie the same manufacturing company Renault Nissan Automotive India, but separate sales and after-sales companies in Renault India Limited and Nissan Motor India Limited.
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Old 12th June 2013, 14:34   #1237
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
Is this true even now after Fiat/Tata have split?
FIAT and TATA split only in marketing and distribution segments; but the JV continues in other areas like manufacturing. The land, where FIAT Ranjangaon plant is located, belongs to TATA Motors, IIRC. When I visited FIAT Ranjangaon plant on 14 December 2012, I saw more Vistas were on the assembly line than Manzas and Puntos with one or two Lineas [Vistas>Manzas>Puntos]. FIAT should be thankful to TATA for keeping their assembly lines busy.
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Old 12th June 2013, 15:48   #1238
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
The launch (or should I say, re-launch) is happening right now at Mumbai.

Some details from TFI forums:

* ABS+EBD Standard across all variants

As per Fiat India website, ABS+EBD is offered on Dynamic and Emotion variants only. The base Active does not get these and also All 4 discs is not mentioned. Is it a typo error or the fact?
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:14   #1239
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

And the t-jet could be Kiirus remapped to deliver 140 bhp and 245 Nm figures. Imagine doing that on the base variant. Stunningly VFM rocket!!
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:22   #1240
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
As per Fiat India website, ABS+EBD is offered on Dynamic and Emotion variants only. The base Active does not get these and also All 4 discs is not mentioned. Is it a typo error or the fact?
@Ajay: I think FIAT is yet to update the site with info about T Jet Active

I see only two models mentioned in the site (T Jet Dynamic and Emotion) but during launch, it was mentioned that there will be three models. I wonder why it takes so much time for the marketing team to update the website.
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:40   #1241
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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@Ajay: I think FIAT is yet to update the site with info about T Jet Active

I see only two models mentioned in the site (T Jet Dynamic and Emotion) but during launch, it was mentioned that there will be three models. I wonder why it takes so much time for the marketing team to update the website.
Nope. I can see all the 3 variants on the Specifications page. Something is wrong i think, OR probably that is why the Active is priced so aggressively.

Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review-tjet.jpg
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:54   #1242
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

^ Why is the fuel efficiency figures different for Active? indicates the site is screwed up. looks like its showing active variant for NA version and not tjet.
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:59   #1243
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
+1 to this. In 2012, when I was checking out Linea, the salesman had told me "Sir, Please buy the Manza instead. You will some lacs and its much more spacious than Linea.". So as mentioned already, Fiat did not sell this product well due to lack of control over Tata-influenced sales teams.
A little point that always gets missed in such situations is that what the sales guy tells is Fact indeed - at least for a tom-dick-harry like me who'll enter the showroom mostly!

Any person who does count the remaining pennies in the pocket before hanging the coat for the day, would think twice before buying the Linea against the Manza for the pros and cons comparo of the 2 cars.

The T-Jet back then was priced very high, in a market where -
1. The petrol - diesel per liter difference was huge making diesel a favourite choice for new car purchase.
2. The sedan segment was already hugely dominated by the City with other competent cars like the SX4, Verna, DZire(most of us would consider it a proper sedan) already fighting for 2nd position downwards.
3. The Linea unfortunately had not made a good enough name for itself with its existing petrol & diesel variants. Petrol being a real disappointment.
4. Yes it was technologically loaded with a turbo, but the diesel car already has a turbo and doesn't cost much more does it? - that's what the common showroom visitor would say.

The Tata-Fiat sales venture didn't really kill the T-Jet. Did FIAT not know that the TJet will be sold besides the Manza in the showroom? They did. In which case, they should have been better prepared and calculated towards there marketing & pricing.

Market survey was not done well before timing the launch of the TJet last time. Majority Indians would have said "Diesel!" when asked "which engine would you buy for your next car?".
In which case - the customer base was obviously going to be the niche enthusiasts who wanted a really good turbo charged petrol car with class. An MBA aspirant would know this - but not FIAT top bosses it seems. In this case, the production should have been kept in check, avoiding huge pile-ups of cob-web covered cars in yards. That would have avoided the discontinuation anyway.

What Fiat did by discontinuing the car was adding a small negative point to the mark-list. Now they are launching a car, that was discontinued a few months back!

I really wish the new TJet does fly high. I like this car - right down to her large and wide wheels. A TJet is parked right across my car in our apartment block & I'm a fan of it.

Good luck Tjet! - And FIAT marketing team.

P.S. - That 20.x fuel efficiency figure really looks over ambitious! Especially from a FIRE engine.. I know I'm being stereotypical but...

Last edited by Reinhard : 12th June 2013 at 17:18.
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:20   #1244
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
Nope. I can see all the 3 variants on the Specifications page. Something is wrong i think, OR probably that is why the Active is priced so aggressively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post

P.S. - That 20.x fuel efficiency figure really looks over ambitious! Especially from a FIRE engine.. I know I'm being stereotypical but...


@Ajay and Reinhard: That is a glitch with the page. Selecting TJet Active does not change anything on the table. For example, go and select the Multijet emotion - it will show you the correct spec. Now, use the drop down to select TJet Active - you can see that the details did not change.

Last edited by theexperthand : 12th June 2013 at 17:21.
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:24   #1245
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
@Ajay and Reinhard: That is a glitch with the page. Selecting TJet Active does not change anything on the table. For example, go and select the Multijet emotion - it will show you the correct spec. Now, use the drop down to select TJet Active - you can see that the details did not change.
Dhuhh...
Talk about being well prepared for a business critical strategic product launch in a segment with break-neck competition...Come ON Fiat!!!
Maybe they should give away a free Scuderia Ferrari emblem with each delivery...that will make-up for all these lapses
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