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Old 25th December 2010, 02:22   #181
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Excellent review GTO .

Just returned from UTTAM toyota showroom in noida sec- 62, delivery will be next year around October november . No display / TD vehicle so far in showroom .
That's another drawback of al cheapo sedan.
If i am not mistaken there are going to be many new Sedan options for buyers in 2011, so one should not get locked for next 10 months on a car which is showing prominent cost cutting and style which are not much liked by normal car lovers.


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Originally Posted by nanduchitnis View Post
This car ETIOS is a threat to Honda City also....one of my friend who was almost certain to buy the City instead booked the ETIOS last week ! The price was the major issue and the test drive was as good as the ANHC.
Oops, I personally say there's a huge difference in owners pride, and look values
ANHC vs Etios, certainly ANHC Rocks
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Old 25th December 2010, 10:34   #182
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Does the Etios engine use VVT? According to another report I read Etios has the 2NR-FE engine and wikipidea says this engine uses VVT for intake Toyota NR engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Some posts in this thread seems to say that the engine does not make use of VVT, hence the confusion.
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Old 25th December 2010, 12:12   #183
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Test drives seem available starting early Jan. Would like to lay my hands on the Etios and check it out.

Especially, since it seems that the drive is among the strong points of this car - high torque at low rpms, good ergonomics for the driver, ride quality, gearshift, refined engine ...
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Old 25th December 2010, 14:28   #184
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by muni View Post
I am pretty sure it is not the echo's dies that are being used by Toyota. It's another thing that they have used their tried and tested concept of the central dash for Etios.
You seem to be referring to the interiors. The main issue is with the chassis, and body panels. From the pictures and specs, its is highly probable, it's the same chassis. And some of the body panels seem similar. There are some differences, but there seems to be a lot of resuse.

Excellent review GTO. The car seems very peppy by today's new offering standards (in B and C segments)...

But surely, Toyota could have used a less than 10 year old platform to save on costs. Even the engine seems downgraded from the Echo 2000 from the specs that a fellow BHPian posted ?

The DZire is based on Swift which has been NCAP tested (albeit with x airbags etc). In my mind, there is no doubt that it is more modern and crash-worthy than the Echo, and the Etios which seems to be based on it - never mind they offer 2 airbags only on the highest variant etc on Dzire or Swift here.

So, definitely mixed feelings about the effort from Toyota - seems regressive in many ways, though it is a hit for the factors mentioned by GTO and others...
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Old 25th December 2010, 14:33   #185
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Toyota should also try increasing the number of its TASS across the nation and per city as it launches mass market cars.

My city has just one TASS. It is already pushed beyond its means to cater to all the cars that turn up for service and repairs. I mean its a pain to get the Innova serviced from the city ***. It just takes too much time and headache. And as of today all of the cars that come for service generally cost a million or more rupees. I am just wondering how will Toyota handle the volumes that Etios will generate in terms of keeping its customers satisfied with the servacibility of their cars. Especially Etios customers - who will be vying for service with much more expensive cars.

For all the talk of Toyota's great ***, the biggest factor that detered me from booking the Etios was - Toyota's ***.

EDIT: And this is where Hyundai scores. Japenese reliability + Maruti like ability to handle volumes.

Last edited by rrsteer : 25th December 2010 at 14:34.
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Old 26th December 2010, 00:32   #186
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

We saw this car in flesh at Select city Mall, Saket about 3 weeks ago. The roof sheet seemed extremely thin (probably that's why they have made it ribbed), boot lid was featherlite just like Dzire. IMO, internal roominess is the only highlight for ETIOS.
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Old 26th December 2010, 18:22   #187
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

May I criticize Toyota for having a 1.5 litre engine (same as ANHC in C segment) and yet being compared with 1.2 and 1.4 engines (C- segment). Etios is over powered in C- , They did not engineer a frugal engine. What's wring with toyota. On C+ Altis they are giving C- engine and on a C- Etios giving a C segment engine !
Too bad that we decide on car segments by just dimensions. No way 1.5 litres will be as FE as smaller units.
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Old 26th December 2010, 22:11   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
The mileage calculation is not so simple. Just to say that the car with the higher torque at lower rpms gives better mileage is oversimplifying the matter. It depends on too many factors and the overall efficiency of the engine.
In fact, I did make that assumption on the basis of a logic.
Firstly, I took the ARAI mileage as the base for comparison.

ARAI for Etios is 17.4 & for Dzire it's 17.9 ==> very closely matched.

Now, the assumptions are
  1. ARAI test conditions are very similar to highway driving conditions
  2. If 2 cars gives approx the same mileage on highway, the car with higher torque on low rpm will give higher mileage on city

This should hold true always unless there is another factor to add to like the turbo. Since, both these cars are not turbo engines, that also doesn't come into the picture. In addition, Etios also has the added advantage that it's 100kgs lighter than the Dzire which means it infact doesn't need as much torque as needed to be pulled from a slow speed which makes it very driveable at high gears which will come in very handy in city driving conditions.


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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I will give a simple example -
The Polo petrol has a higher torque at lower rpms compared to say the Swift K12 motor.
But, Swift is clearly the most fuel efficient car. (See the test-drive section in TBHP).

Same case with the Santro and say, the A-star. Santro has higher torque at lower rpms but A-star is the more Fuel efficient.
Here, we don't take the ARAI test mileage as the base. ARAI of A-star is better than both the cars we take for comparison. So, we cannot compare these cars on the same logic. Plus, there is another factor as well. Polo is heavier than Swift. Similarly Santro is heavier than A-Star.
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Old 26th December 2010, 22:31   #189
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Congratulations GTO for another amazing review,after looking at the deal Toyota is offering it will surely be a hit in Indian market.
The only doubt in my mind is that will Toyota be able to provide the quality of service when their dealer network is smaller to that of Maruti and Tata?
I strongly believe that they should think about increasing there dealerships in small towns before serving this mass market,else it could backfire the brand name TOYOTA.
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Old 26th December 2010, 23:02   #190
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

One word "sheeeeee" what were these guys thinking when designing this car,entire world car makers have taken India for granted you get anything here under the company name and people will start buying it in bulks.

Its just not my types would rather take a Fiat padmini taxi than rather roaming around in this senseless tin-box.
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Old 26th December 2010, 23:06   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
May I criticize Toyota for having a 1.5 litre engine (same as ANHC in C segment) and yet being compared with 1.2 and 1.4 engines (C- segment). Etios is over powered in C- , They did not engineer a frugal engine. What's wring with toyota. On C+ Altis they are giving C- engine and on a C- Etios giving a C segment engine !
Too bad that we decide on car segments by just dimensions. No way 1.5 litres will be as FE as smaller units.
More than the cc, several factors determine the fuel economy. A well engineered 1.5 L engine can be as fuel efficient as the 1.2L. And a well engineered 1.5L engine with good gear ratio, if driven sensibly can produce even better mileage figures.

Baleno is a fun to drive car and at the same time gave very good mileage thanks to the excellent design, and the low end torque. I have not seen a petrol engine less than 1.5L spit out anywhere close to 132 Nm of torque ( I'm talking only about Petrol cars ). That too at a very low rpm of 3000! This is surely going to make this car a 'fun to drive car'in the city. In a country like India with high density population and not so great roads, the low end torque is a very sensible design from Toyota.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
What's wring with toyota. On C+ Altis they are giving C- engine and on a C- Etios giving a C segment engine !
Too bad that we decide on car segments by just dimensions. No way 1.5 litres will be as FE as smaller units.
Altis is powered by a 1.8L engine ( much bigger than the Etios ) which spits out a very formidable 132 PS of power!

If you are referring to the diesel version of Altis, just try a test drive, ( make sure that you rev it hard enough to turn on the turbo ) and I'm sure you'll change your opinion. It's a very powerful engine, even though it's just 1.4L thanks to the excellent turbo. And low end torque comes by default with a diesel engine ( 205 Nm ). So, you don't need to increase the volume of the engine to produce a high torque at low rpm. It comes by default.

And when Etios gets a diesel engine, it would most probably be the same Altis 1.4 Diesel Engine with a reduced power ( 70 PS vs 89PS for Altis )

Last edited by Amartya : 27th December 2010 at 01:29. Reason: Merging back to back posts.
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Old 27th December 2010, 00:25   #192
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I have not seen a petrol engine less than 1.5L spit out anywhere close to 132 Nm of torque ( I'm talking only about Petrol cars ). That too at a very low rpm of 3000!
That's where I was talking of segment imbalance. C- cars are taking a beating as 1.5 litres is pitted in the race (just because as per government regulations, dimensions are similar). The performance comparison is with engines a segment higher. On a similar note, C+ guys rate diesel altis engine segments below. I know its a good and driveable engine.
So if u want to choose car on the basis of dimensions, sure lets go ahead and compare with Manza, DZire (etc)
Otherwise on basis of engine - ANHC, Vento, Linea, SX4, Fiesta (etc)

Lets do justice to what has been engineered.

On a lighter and funny note, do not we guys compare turbo lag in Altis with Dzire.

I also appreciate the fact that people found new Etios much drivable like a Baleno, and I'm not able to digest the fact that Toyota could not design the right engine for it. Similar figures can be done from smaller power plants. Either Etios should be a segment above and better loaded, or use a smaller engine.
Sure, everyone cannot engineer like a Honda, but innovation comes at a price and requires effort. I'm sad to say that Toyota did not put the right effort. "Made for India" is still the K-Series and Kappa engines.

Technically in this 8-10 years, if this 1.5l is only marginally better to a 1.6l baleno in driving dynamics, so where is the "T" advantage ?

(P.S. I'm not provoking a baleno v/s etios topic)
Rest, it will succeed as it will do things good and reliably. I'm not debating on that.
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Old 27th December 2010, 00:41   #193
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Needless to mention great review by GTO.
I think the Etios is an excellent vehicle for its price. I just hope that the rattles stay away from the car. If Toyota achieves that, along with cheap maintenance , (taking for granted the legendary toyota reliability), then will be a VFM car. In that way due to competition, hopefully maruti will improve the standards of their fit and finish.
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Old 27th December 2010, 05:45   #194
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

When the diesel arrives Indigo and Indica has to take cover and we would see a lot of Etios donning the yellow plate for sure.

Dzire need not fear because people perceive it as a poorman's honda.

Last edited by rajeev k : 27th December 2010 at 05:46.
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Old 27th December 2010, 12:31   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
That's where I was talking of segment imbalance. C- cars are taking a beating as 1.5 litres is pitted in the race (just because as per government regulations, dimensions are similar). The performance comparison is with engines a segment higher.
I guess, that was exactly what Toyota wanted to achieve. They wanted to break into the segment with an engine that's one league above the rest, that too without compromising on mileage.

These are the reasons, I think made Toyota go for the bigger engine.

1) They are specialists in big engines unlike Suzuki and Honda who are good at small engines. So, they took the safer option here by chosing an engine design where they are good at.

2) They wanted to create a 'best performer engine' feeling among the customers who have never tried a Toyota vehicle ever.

3) The great torque @ low rpms makes it the best in class driveable engine in cities. People will get addicted to this feel.

4) They have the technological expertise to design a 1.5l at approx the same mileage as the best 1.2l engine in India ( K-series ) !

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
On a similar note, C+ guys rate diesel altis engine segments below. I know its a good and driveable engine.
So if u want to choose car on the basis of dimensions, sure lets go ahead and compare with Manza, DZire (etc)
Otherwise on basis of engine - ANHC, Vento, Linea, SX4, Fiesta (etc)
The corolla diesel drives better than the Fiesta and Linea for sure. I have driven all 3 extensively. And a big plus is the refined feeling it offers. No other engine comes as close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
On a lighter and funny note, do not we guys compare turbo lag in Altis with Dzire.
I think we are giving an over importance to the turbo lag factor. Unless racing is not what you need, turbo lag is very much acceptable. Intelligently use the turbo by shifting gears down, and u can harness the power of the turbo. I prefer the refined DDIS and D-4D engines than the engines which are not as refined. I never felt under powered on an Altis Diesel or a Swift DDIS. If driven properly, u can easily overtake most cars on road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Similar figures can be done from smaller power plants. Either Etios should be a segment above and better loaded, or use a smaller engine.
With Etios, Toyoya wanted to crush its opponents in the volume market by offering a best in class engine without compromising on an average Indian's priority ( space and mileage ). And small engines are not Toyota's specialization. It's Honda's and Suzuki's specialization. Toyota is throwing a challenge to both of them by offering this 1.5l engine at this price. And I don't think, any other smaller engine can offer this kind of a performance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post

Sure, everyone cannot engineer like a Honda, but innovation comes at a price and requires effort. I'm sad to say that Toyota did not put the right effort. "Made for India" is still the K-Series and Kappa engines.
Wait for the sales figures of Etios, Dzire and Manza Petrol for the next one year. You'll understand why Toyota's Etios is a master stroke from Toyota. Over engineering is not Indian customer's priority. Indian customer needs a reliable performing vehicle with adequate space and mileage at a good price. It would be fair to say that Toyota correctly evaluated the Indian requirement and made a car for the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Technically in this 8-10 years, if this 1.5l is only marginally better to a 1.6l baleno in driving dynamics, so where is the "T" advantage ?

(P.S. I'm not provoking a baleno v/s etios topic)
Rest, it will succeed as it will do things good and reliably. I'm not debating on that.
Offering a Baleno like engine at a price of a Dzire and mileage that competes with India's best petrol engine, that too 1.2 l cannot be taken so lightly. Add to that, the Toyota reliability and brand value.
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