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Old 13th September 2011, 11:14   #616
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Hi Parsh,

Just to answer your questions,

1. More of feel good / less in utility
2. Certainly useful during ingress / egress especially when things are lying on the floor. Not had a chance to search things yet but I guess it wont be much useful for search purposes.
3. Certainly not bright enough to read / not as bright as centre cabin light - but the placement ensures better visibility in legroom area that would otherwise be a bit darker even with cabin light on.

Now you motivate me to post a night time shot with blue illumination. Will do it soon. The biggest plus is, it feels good when you enter.
Thanks amateurpro. Your answers are great help. Do post that illuminated night snap.
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Old 13th September 2011, 12:09   #617
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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I would take a highway mileage of 13-15 in Civic since the ARAI figures for Civic is also in that range. On top of it, Civic is several segments ahead of Etios in terms of performance and comfort. When Civic can give between 13 & 15 in highway, why not the lightest sedan in the country give a better mileage?

I am not strong technically but I too feel there could be some issues with ECU setting. Not too sure if dealers have been given any training on the same yet. TKM should get involved directly and solve the issue. From what I have heard of Toyota so far, they would respond and that is what I hope too.

Mileage apart, Etios is a fantastic car and you could go no wrong with Etios. Will keep you posted once my issue is resolved.
I've been getting decent mileage figures in my Etios (typically a little over 13 - normal city driving with AC on). However, I have noticed, for some time, vibrations trickling inside the cabin on idle. Initially, the service centre (SS) dismissed this as normal. On taking up the matter with Toyota, SS examined it again. Now SS says that it's mostly because of FE oriented ECU setting that has specified the rpm at idle rather low. SS also says that the issue of mild vibrations inside the cabin is normal in the Etios on account of the said ECU settings. Anybody has comments/observations on this ? SS to get back further after feedback loop with Toyota is completed. (I have also posed a question on this premise of SS - why were there no vibrations earlier?).

Thought of sharing this, as you brought up ECU topic. Dunno if Toyota is caught in a tug of war between FE and refinement for ECU setting. Apparently, different initial batches of Etios had different fuel injector settings in ECU. I know this as SS had changed my ECU settings (without luck w.r.t. vibrations) as it had instructions from Toyota on this for a particular batch(es) of the car.

Let's see what Toyota now does to restore refinement in my car without major sacrifice on FE front.

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 13th September 2011 at 12:24.
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Old 13th September 2011, 13:24   #618
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Thought of sharing this, as you brought up ECU topic. Dunno if Toyota is caught in a tug of war between FE and refinement for ECU setting. Apparently, different initial batches of Etios had different fuel injector settings in ECU. I know this as SS had changed my ECU settings (without luck w.r.t. vibrations) as it had instructions from Toyota on this for a particular batch(es) of the car.

Let's see what Toyota now does to restore refinement in my car without major sacrifice on FE front.
You have hit the nail on the head. It is possible that Toyota has two batches of cars - one tuned for FE and another tuned for better refinement. It is easy to now figure out where our Etios figure.
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Old 13th September 2011, 13:25   #619
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Thanks amateurpro. Your answers are great help. Do post that illuminated night snap.
Sure. Hopefully soon.
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Old 14th September 2011, 11:05   #620
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Thought of sharing this, as you brought up ECU topic. Dunno if Toyota is caught in a tug of war between FE and refinement for ECU setting. Apparently, different initial batches of Etios had different fuel injector settings in ECU. I know this as SS had changed my ECU settings (without luck w.r.t. vibrations) as it had instructions from Toyota on this for a particular batch(es) of the car.

Let's see what Toyota now does to restore refinement in my car without major sacrifice on FE front.
Hi RadiantKarma,

The tacho reading at idle for different cars could possibly help understand differences in tuning, if any. Now, mine reads 500 RPM without A/C and 600 to 650 RPM with A/C. What is your reading?
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Old 14th September 2011, 12:03   #621
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
I've been getting decent mileage figures in my Etios (typically a little over 13 - normal city driving with AC on). However, I have noticed, for some time, vibrations trickling inside the cabin on idle. Initially, the service centre (SS) dismissed this as normal. On taking up the matter with Toyota, SS examined it again. Now SS says that it's mostly because of FE oriented ECU setting that has specified the rpm at idle rather low. SS also says that the issue of mild vibrations inside the cabin is normal in the Etios on account of the said ECU settings. Anybody has comments/observations on this ? SS to get back further after feedback loop with Toyota is completed. (I have also posed a question on this premise of SS - why were there no vibrations earlier?).

Thought of sharing this, as you brought up ECU topic. Dunno if Toyota is caught in a tug of war between FE and refinement for ECU setting. Apparently, different initial batches of Etios had different fuel injector settings in ECU. I know this as SS had changed my ECU settings (without luck w.r.t. vibrations) as it had instructions from Toyota on this for a particular batch(es) of the car.

Let's see what Toyota now does to restore refinement in my car without major sacrifice on FE front.
I think one function of the engine mount is also to damp/cancel vibrations coming from the engine.

It could be that the engine mount was designed considering a certain RPM range (lesser F.E say),due to change in ECU setting (for better F.E), the idle RPM comes down, then it is possible that the mount does not damp these vibrations and these are felt inside the car.

Do the vibrations go away after a certain RPM ?
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Old 14th September 2011, 12:53   #622
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Hi RadiantKarma,

The tacho reading at idle for different cars could possibly help understand differences in tuning, if any. Now, mine reads 500 RPM without A/C and 600 to 650 RPM with A/C. What is your reading?
Now now, I have never observed rpm without AC as its on almost all the time. The rpm at idle in my case is distinctly below 500 once the engine is fully warmed up. When I start the engine from cold condition, the rpm is higher though.

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I think one function of the engine mount is also to damp/cancel vibrations coming from the engine.

It could be that the engine mount was designed considering a certain RPM range (lesser F.E say),due to change in ECU setting (for better F.E), the idle RPM comes down, then it is possible that the mount does not damp these vibrations and these are felt inside the car.

Do the vibrations go away after a certain RPM ?
When the fuel injector setting is tuned, through the ECU, heavily for FE, then engine could starve at lower rpm set at idle and start vibrating. And if the damping is just adequate, the vibrations can travel to the cabin.

Yes, if I revv up a little, say above 700-800+, the vibrations become almost imperceptible. The service centre guy was also sharing that the normal idle rpm in Toyota cars is around 700-800 rpm, but Toyota has specified lower rpm for Etios. Having said this, I still cannot understand why the vibrations were missing early on. In any case, I wasn't observant enough about the rpm at idle then.
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Old 14th September 2011, 15:27   #623
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Now now, I have never observed rpm without AC as its on almost all the time. The rpm at idle in my case is distinctly below 500 once the engine is fully warmed up. When I start the engine from cold condition, the rpm is higher though.



.
Less than 500 RPM with A/C on? Oh my my...I thought 650 was low enough with A/C on.

Btw, would mileage improve with a full tank as compared to half tank or less? It is an old question and possibly for this section. But since we are discussing mileage issues in Etios, this should pass.

Can anyone answer this please?
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Old 14th September 2011, 15:49   #624
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Less than 500 RPM with A/C on? Oh my my...I thought 650 was low enough with A/C on.

Btw, would mileage improve with a full tank as compared to half tank or less? It is an old question and possibly for this section. But since we are discussing mileage issues in Etios, this should pass.

Can anyone answer this please?
It's actually very close to 400 rpm with AC on! Btw, with all the discussion going around, can we take it on record that you're not facing any vibrations trickling inside the cabin? Will appreciate the confirmation of the surmise from your side. I just had a talk with the service centre, which is still parroting the line that the vibrations are 'normal'!

Regarding your question on fullness of tank for mileage, it's a known fact that petrol would evaporate more if the tank is empty. Though not sure to what extent it can impact the mileage, as it may depend on factors like daily run (meaning time taken for tankful to empty and refill), ambient temperature etc. In any case, it always pays to keep the tank as full as possible. I like to get a tankful at every reasonable opportunity. Hope this helps.
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Old 14th September 2011, 16:55   #625
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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It's actually very close to 400 rpm with AC on! Btw, with all the discussion going around, can we take it on record that you're not facing any vibrations trickling inside the cabin? Will appreciate the confirmation of the surmise from your side. I just had a talk with the service centre, which is still parroting the line that the vibrations are 'normal'!

Regarding your question on fullness of tank for mileage, it's a known fact that petrol would evaporate more if the tank is empty. Though not sure to what extent it can impact the mileage, as it may depend on factors like daily run (meaning time taken for tankful to empty and refill), ambient temperature etc. In any case, it always pays to keep the tank as full as possible. I like to get a tankful at every reasonable opportunity. Hope this helps.
On your query regarding noise and vibration, my car has been a delight from beginning till now (current Odo reading 1700+) with no vibrations / engine noise. The only noise I hear is the road noise while driving at 100+ speeds in highways, as I have mentioned earlier. The road noise is not bad at all if one loves it for its sportiness.

But at current petrol prices, I will happily trade mine for yours. Just kidding. Let us hope Toyota solve both our issues.
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Old 16th September 2011, 11:58   #626
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

Good news folks :-)

My Etios now returns a mileage of 12 kmpl in city driving conditions after it came back from the mileage test last week.

Ever since my car came back from mileage test last saturday, I have been noticing some minor changes. The pick up seemed to have dropped a bit but it is not very pronounced. The car still has more pick up than what one needs in our driving conditions and so no issues. My dealer's initial version also was that they did the mileage test and returned the vehicle to me in as-is-where-is condition. So, I dismissed the perceived drop in pick-up as a figment of my imagination. The dealer said they had merely sent the mileage test report to TKM waiting for their feedback.

All that changed when I did a top up yesterday evening (partly motivated by impending price rise by midnight). I noticed that the mileage figures had suddenly shot upto 12 and that too with 100% city driving with A/c on. I had called my dealer this morning to check if they had done some tuning. The dealer person was polite as usual but she only told me that certain procedures as advised by TKM were carried out after the car returned poor mileage in the mileage test. She did not reveal much about those procedures (possibly under instructions from TKM) but she told me that TKM feels that those procedures should address the mileage issue. I am fine as long they address the issue even if they cannot share with me how they address the issue.

I know I need to observe the mileage for a little longer period (2 or 3 weeks OR 500 more kms). Hope I have not jumped the gun too early and the mileage continues to stay above 12+ in city.

There is certainly one big positive from this experience. Toyota is quick and prompt in its response to customer feedback.
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Old 16th September 2011, 12:31   #627
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Good news folks :-)

My Etios now returns a mileage of 12 kmpl in city driving conditions after it came back from the mileage test last week.

Ever since my car came back from mileage test last saturday, I have been noticing some minor changes. The pick up seemed to have dropped a bit but it is not very pronounced. The car still has more pick up than what one needs in our driving conditions and so no issues. My dealer's initial version also was that they did the mileage test and returned the vehicle to me in as-is-where-is condition. So, I dismissed the perceived drop in pick-up as a figment of my imagination. The dealer said they had merely sent the mileage test report to TKM waiting for their feedback.

All that changed when I did a top up yesterday evening (partly motivated by impending price rise by midnight). I noticed that the mileage figures had suddenly shot upto 12 and that too with 100% city driving with A/c on. I had called my dealer this morning to check if they had done some tuning. The dealer person was polite as usual but she only told me that certain procedures as advised by TKM were carried out after the car returned poor mileage in the mileage test. She did not reveal much about those procedures (possibly under instructions from TKM) but she told me that TKM feels that those procedures should address the mileage issue. I am fine as long they address the issue even if they cannot share with me how they address the issue.

I know I need to observe the mileage for a little longer period (2 or 3 weeks OR 500 more kms). Hope I have not jumped the gun too early and the mileage continues to stay above 12+ in city.

There is certainly one big positive from this experience. Toyota is quick and prompt in its response to customer feedback.
Thst is really good mileage figures for city driving and definitely within the expected range. Did you complete your 10K service? Mine is coming up next month. No issues so far. From RadiantKarma's comments i will ask them about the ECU setting for idle. Mine is 600-700 RPM at idle with AC.
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Old 16th September 2011, 13:06   #628
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Thst is really good mileage figures for city driving and definitely within the expected range. Did you complete your 10K service? Mine is coming up next month. No issues so far. From RadiantKarma's comments i will ask them about the ECU setting for idle. Mine is 600-700 RPM at idle with AC.
Mine is also around 650 RPM at idle with A/C on. Just to make sure that we are in same page, my RPM reading was taken as viewed from driving position (assuming the tacho reading is "parallax corrected" for driving position). My odo reading is closer to 1800 now.
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Old 16th September 2011, 13:50   #629
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Mine is also around 650 RPM at idle with A/C on. Just to make sure that we are in same page, my RPM reading was taken as viewed from driving position (assuming the tacho reading is "parallax corrected" for driving position). My odo reading is closer to 1800 now.

Yes mine is also from the drving position. I have completed 8k on the odo and will complete 10k till next month.
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Old 17th September 2011, 21:43   #630
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Default Re: Toyota Etios : Test Drive & Review

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Good news folks :-)

My Etios now returns a mileage of 12 kmpl in city driving conditions after it came back from the mileage test last week....

....The dealer person was polite as usual but she only told me that certain procedures as advised by TKM were carried out after the car returned poor mileage in the mileage test. She did not reveal much about those procedures (possibly under instructions from TKM) but she told me that TKM feels that those procedures should address the mileage issue. I am fine as long they address the issue even if they cannot share with me how they address the issue....

There is certainly one big positive from this experience. Toyota is quick and prompt in its response to customer feedback.
Hey amateurpro, good to know about this. Hope the mileage stays that way.

In my case, the SS has been confirming verbally, now purportedly with the support of Toyota technical team, (awaiting formal confirmation though) that the vibrations I feel inside the car are normal. I decided to check the things myself. Went to the SS. (I really like the behaviour of SS guys!). Prior to that I did a thorough check of rpm figures myself at idle. Initially, at a signal, while noticing vibrations, I observed that the rpm needle is indeed around 500 with AC on. On further observation though, I noticed it climbing close to 800. OK, so the vibrations were increasing when the AC compressor was getting cut off and rpm figure was dropping. My earlier observations of low rpm at idle with AC on had obviously been based on this.

Anyways, at SS, the folks were very open and welcoming. I checked the rpm figures at idle myself with their tester connected to the ECU. Here are the confirmed figures (and should ideally be the same for you guys too, as per the SS)
  • ~600 rpm with AC off / compressor cut off
  • ~850 rpm with AC on and compressor running
I still insisted as to why the vibrations and why they were not present earlier. Ever so politely, the service engineer suggested it could possibly be that I did not notice these earlier as one often tends to get overwhelmed with the experience of a new car initially. Then he offered me to check other cars including Corolla. So here I am checking one Corolla and one Corolla Altis (both petrol). Yeah, almost similar level of vibrations exist. I am a little flummoxed, and feeling a little red-faced too. Have I overdone the vibrations concern?

In all likelihood, when the SS reprogrammed my ECU a few days back (now I think the observation of less than 500 rpm may have been prior to that reprogramming), the vibrations might indeed have dropped. But maybe, I was stubbornly expecting vibrations to go away completely and did not notice the drop.

Well, that's it from me for now. Need a while to recover from the embarrassment before I further confirm that all is really well with my car.
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