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Old 10th May 2011, 14:25   #1666
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Doctor, change the axle ratio if not happy with the current configuration. I can't comment on the other two issues as I have not seen it personally.

Passing a comment on these would be like stating "I learnt swimming through a correspondence course".

Spike
Dear Spike,

I was advised against changing the axle ratio. Maybe you can comment on why.

As far as the noise is concerned, once the review came on team-bhp, someone at the company must have inspected the vehicle. Please find out from them. Since you are part of the dev team, you should have made it a point to find out. And if no one bothered to check what it was, then, well it's just sad and speaks a lot about how the company takes feedback.
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Old 10th May 2011, 15:19   #1667
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Those who are bothered about sales figures, how does it matter how many units the Thar sells? You like it you buy it, you don't you won't !!
Hey Deepak,
I quite agree with most of your comment, but i do not understand why it is wrong for people to ask the sales figures of Thar.
As an example, i've seen dismal sales resulting in a stop of production and unavailability of spares (viz. Ford Fusion).
There are several other such hints you get by seeing sales figures.
Sales figures, atleast for me, is a definite health check for any vehicle/brand.
I just do not understand why this has to be kept secret by MM.
Cheers,
Deepak

Last edited by starter : 10th May 2011 at 15:45.
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Old 10th May 2011, 15:28   #1668
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by starter View Post
Hey Deepak,
I quite agree with most of your comment, but i do not understand why it is wrong for people to ask the sales figures of Thar.
As an example, i've seen dismal sales resulting in a stop of production and unavailability of spares.
There are several other such hints you get by seeing sales figures.
Sales figures, atleast for me, is a definite health check for any vehicle/brand.
I just do not understand why this has to be kept secret by MM.
Cheers,
Deepak
+1
Not only that, if there are some bespoke components for the thar, low sales would mean not only service personnel's unfamiliarity, but more specifically no familiarity with the product for independent mechanics.

And independent is what would be available to users who would take the thar to off track places on their jaunts.
That is the main draw, aint it, go anywhere?
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Old 10th May 2011, 16:01   #1669
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - I refer to the photographs posted on page 110, which shows some ridiculous changes done to the bumpers / front / fenders of a red Thar CRDe vehicle. By using this forum, I sincerely appeal to all those who are interested in buying / owning Thar CRDe to please refrain from spending money on such things which do not add any value. The marketplace is a madhouse out there. If somebody is willing to pay for such things, there is somebody to supply such things. Please be careful. Finally it is your call.

Further - positive critique is healthy and welcome. That said, please come to Nasik and spend quality time with us, you will understand what Spike and I are talking about. Remember - For something to happen, somebody has to actually do something. That somebody happens to be us and we have no hesitancy in saying so. It is very easy to sit there and type, it is very easy to make assumptions and accusations, it is not so easy to weigh the options available, generate opportunities, take EXECUTIVE DECISIONS, and then stand by them. I once again mention that positive critique is healthy and welcome. We are in the corporate world. I trust that you will understand and appreciate. Thank you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Behram,

In all fairness the product is kick ***, I ve had 3 test drives of the Thar at NBS . Just trying hard to convice my self, but the interiors of the test vehicle were broken bits of the winder , door lock etc. The test Thar had done around 9K kms I am saying Just give us a fit and finish and interiors close to the Top end bolero atleast .Its not about customizing ,but it is about going through the process of customizing.We would rather ponder over customizing things that are needed to stylize the vehicle.I personally feel that a certain quality must come as default . My scorp is a 2006 dx which is certainly far inferior to the current scorpios in terms of interiors ,but in the last 5 years all parts have stood ground. I have closcke 1 lac plus kms and 24 plus hours of nonstop driving across the nation ( as I mentioned earlier)

Take My word, customers are shying away from the interior quality thats about it.
This is a fantastic product , the ride handling, braking ,on road ,off road are all top class for a civilian( Thats why we call it CJ). May be serious mudpluggers are not in for it and want to tear the product to shreds talking about crawling, articulation etc .Beg your pardon, but most guys dont even know the right rev ratio while doing off roading.Check out our enthusiast who make the engine sream in the name of offroading and dune bashing.Taking it for aswim ?? well iwould avoid that ..rather do a dry offroad

Behram ,I repeat your product is top class and you dont need to give any justifications to any one.Just good interiors , ac powerwindows at a reasonable price is what needed , the rest we would do the needful.

So Kindly do the neddful asap , I have promised my 7 yr old son one for his Birthday

To sum it up Thar = to a super product , as reliable as the sun
downside - interiors
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Old 10th May 2011, 23:10   #1670
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i use mine as a daily commute vehicle and have not had any urge to go back to my Scorpio or Honda City for the comfort they offer. The feeling is different in a THAR. In fact I miss the THAR at times when I drive the other two!
Dear all - the comments that I am going to make to the underlined portion of Tha'Red's quote above / other similar comments from page 109 onwards are not self praise, so please don't go off into a tangent again. Thank you in advance for understanding.

Dear Tha'Red / all - as a part of my portfolio, one of my activities is that of a trainer in the organization / R&D. I deal with a topic called "Vehicle Behavioral Feel". This topic covers things like understanding the very subtle nuances of a vehicle as you put it through its paces, the way a vehicle starts a conversation with you, the finer moments of articulating the vehicle within continuously changing situations in real time, the art of ballet dancing with a vehicle, the "gates theory" of perfectly executing an overtaking manoeuvre with the perfect common tangent between obstacles in real time, definition of a constant line of sight to place the front wheel within one inch of your intended position etc. These sessions are indeed a delight because I continuously learn from them. What I want to tell you is that when I drive the Thar, I get the feel of these things actually happening. That's why you get the feel which draws you to the car like a magnet, which some of you have expressed.

For example (and you would have never read this before) - "a perfectly executed overtaking manoeuvre with the common tangent way involves subtly throwing the rear end of your car into the car which has just passed you, just a light twitch on the steering wheel is all it takes with the shape of the steering wheel's cross section determining the drgree of finesse achieved, this also determines the steering mounting's degree of integrity" - or - "the angle of attack on the first bump of a rumbler strip to execute it without slowing down at all" - or - "the methodology of using the tail lights of the car in front of you to drive without slowing down even in the face of blinding glare of oncoming headlights" - or - "body posture / position on the driving seat to determine the shoulder blade support, thigh support, foot orientation on the accelerator pedal, anti-submarining effectiveness of the seat" - or "angle of dip about the transverse axis in a braking manoeuvre v/s deceleration v/s subtle change of seat belt position during this manoeuvre activity" - or - "what exactly is acceleration? Rate of change of speed means what? what is an operator supposed to experience for him to make a comment as "I am delighted" on acceleration"? etc.

What I want to tell you is this - the things mentioned above is what the Thar CRDe is delivering, which is why you are making these comments. When I drive the vehicle as a test engineer, I take it to its limits and beyond and although we have set up the suspension a little towards the softer side for my liking (it can certainly be tuned, how? find out!), the way the oneness between the Thar and the operator (you) is happening is what is drawing you to drive it more and more, like it more and more, enjoy it more and more. I knew these comments would come, they have come. I would normally have chosen to keep quiet but in this case I choose to pen down my thoughts on what is it that is pulling you to the Thar in spite of you having other choices available in your driveway, I thought I would share these nuances with you. As Deepak said, let us further discuss the fine, finer, finest points in such areas of the Thar which will delight all of us.

This is the crux of what we have delivered, and I quote:
So, you can buy the books, you can hire the consultants, you can implement the program, you can preach business transformation and you can eventually run out of energy, lose enthusiasm and be puzzled over why a program failed to bring a good car into production and transform your business, put the fat binders on a conference room shelf and go back to business as usual.

What happens every day is teachable and learnable. But it is not a set of goals, because goals mean that there is a finish line and actually there is no finish line. It is not something you can implement, because it is not a check list of imprvements. It is a way of looking at the world. You simply cannot lose interest in it, shrug and give up, any more than you lose interest in your own future.

For most people, it is a big shift for them. They kind of don't get it for a while. They do what all managers do, they keep trying to meet their management objectives. They move forward, they improve, they look for a plateau. It seems like a constant struggle. If you are looking for a plateau, you are going to be frustrated, because there is no plateau. Once you realize that you are not seeking a plateau, you can relax.

Doing the task, doing the task better, doing the task the best become one and the same thing. In the end, there is no end.

"THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO ME - TO COME TO WORK"

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 10th May 2011 at 23:12.
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Old 10th May 2011, 23:21   #1671
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

that red that which looks hideous is parked outide the dealer Sri Durga automobiles, rama road, west Delhi, moti nagar. Absolutely disastrous mod.
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Old 10th May 2011, 23:54   #1672
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Those who are bothered about sales figures, how does it matter how many units the Thar sells? You like it you buy it, you don't you won't !!
To name a few basic points, atleast this is what i had in my mind with each of my purchases. Most often within the first 3-6 months of launch of that product. Only Swift Vdi was bought within a month but i had done the ground work much before thanks to international availability of the engine.
  1. Confidence in the product
  2. Service support since more dealerships and mechs would be exposed
  3. Resale

More than anything, oops i dont look like a fool wasting substantial amount of my CTC in a one off show case piece

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - the comments that I am going to make to the underlined portion of Tha'Red's quote above / other similar comments from page 109 onwards are not self praise, so please don't go off into a tangent again. Thank you in advance for understanding.
==============
"THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO ME - TO COME TO WORK"

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Really glad to know your passion and the energy you bring to the work Behramji. I also get inspired by reading such open hearted thoughts.

But lets get to the matter of fact now. How is the trouble shooting coming up?

Have you caught the vendors, right where it hurts them and asked them to deliver better quality parts?

Is there any hope in the corporate world to incorporate few more creature comforts and aesthetics (interior) to the vehicle to justify the hideous cost?

Airconditioned vehicle from the factory?
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Old 11th May 2011, 00:16   #1673
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Have you caught the vendors, right where it hurts them and asked them to deliver better quality parts?

Is there any hope in the corporate world to incorporate few more creature comforts and aesthetics (interior) to the vehicle to justify the hideous cost?
Expecting ergonomics/aesthetics from a manufacturer who couldn't fix the offset steering wheel position in eons is pretty far fetched, isn't it?

I have been following various Thar threads on the forum in their entirety. I even went and test drove the Thar as soon as it became available at the Gurgaon dealership. But the only thing that appalled me more than the shoddy build quality and detailing on the vehicle was the 'holier than thou' attitude of the people associated with the Thar project.

Maybe, just maybe, if someone would send them a brand new Gypsy, then maybe, just maybe, we would have a better Thar.
A Thar that I would love to own, along with many others!

Last edited by gotzuk : 11th May 2011 at 00:21.
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Old 11th May 2011, 06:11   #1674
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my dad and i fiddled about with a Thar which was parked at the service centre a few days ago. it was absolutely brand new - even the transport dust wasnt yet cleaned up from the body shell.
my dad is not as interested in the new M&M offerings nowadays as he was some years ago when he was using them regularly. His first and only comment on the Thar was that nothing much at all seemed to have changed from the days when he bought his first MM540 - in 1986 for the handsome price of Rs 1.1 lacs on road coimbatore/nilgiris!!
To me, that says everything.
Rather than go on justifying themselves, I think it is about time that M&M took a clear, hard view of the rubbish apology that they call "quality" - atleast in terms of fit, finish, plastics quality, interiors, driving ergonomics and overall comfort in their much vaunted "lifestyle vehicle" the Thar!
sorry if this seems offensive, but frankly, it is about time that we consumers got taken seriously. After all 7.5 to 8 lacs on road bangalore for a vehicle like this is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 11th May 2011 at 06:13.
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Old 11th May 2011, 07:29   #1675
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Play and feedback was not consistent. Differed over similar terrain.
Thats Power R&P steering for you


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Thank you in advance for understanding.

"THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO ME - TO COME TO WORK"
DB, Now that you've gone back to work, Can you please answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Will the THAR:

1. Come to Chennai ? When is the exact date?
2. with Factory AC and HT [I mean a cool lockable cabin]
3. Have Warranty coverage if damage occurs to Steering / IFS during OFFROAD.
4. Can we change tyres and not loose warranty?
5. IS there any future plan for ABS?

A simple YES or NO is sufficient for me.

Thanking you in anticipation,


Quote:
Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
Expecting ergonomics/aesthetics from a manufacturer who couldn't fix the offset steering wheel position in eons is pretty far fetched, isn't it?
ROFLMAO

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
Maybe, just maybe, if someone would send them a brand new Gypsy, then maybe, just maybe, we would have a better Thar.
A Thar that I would love to own, along with many others!
And if only petrol was not 61.xx but 4x.xx, it would be a different story!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
After all 7.5 to 8 lacs on road bangalore for a vehicle like this is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination!
I agree!
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:01   #1676
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
My Dear Gentlemen of M&M,

I would like to have a simple answer to my following questions:

Will the THAR:

1. Come to Chennai ? When is the exact date?
2. with Factory AC and HT [I mean a cool lockable cabin]
3. Have Warranty coverage if damage occurs to Steering / IFS during OFFROAD.
4. Can we change tyres and not loose warranty?
5. IS there any future plan for ABS?

A simple YES or NO is sufficient for me.

Thanking you in anticipation,

Regards

Dear teamiee...
Let me answer questions for you. I think you are in a dilema if you must wait for a new version of THAR or should you go/not go for the present version.

1. No. Chennai market isnt open yet. However places which are traditionally 4wd markets like Coimbatore, trichy, thirunalveli have been opened this month.

2. Exact date of opening of chennai market?- the day you are ready to put your money. Cant say all depends on demand and supply. You know chennai has not tradionally been 4wd market for new vehicles. Hence not on priority. But can assure we will open it very soon.

3. Factory fitted A/C will take time. I cant tell you the time frame. Dealer fitted A/c the only option. Hard top (lockable cabin) option is live with customization- as i had mentioned.

4. Let me know which Indian manufacturer provides you warranty even on Manual steering and solid axle if damaged off road? Only manufacturing defects are covered.

5.Change of tyres with different pattern/ make but same size is OK. But if some one puts 31 or 33 inches tyres related damages are not covered. Again this is case to case (technically anything changed that is away from original looses warranty)

6. No ABS in the scheme of things for now.

Some where you had mentioned that THAR isnt launched in chennai as it is not ready for off road group in chenai. I have driven with you guys with my faithful MM540 DP 4wd. I can confidently say if not anywhere else, THAR is most definately ready for sandy palar. Sandy terrain is THAR CRDe's strength. As and when vehicles are bought and enter your gang, you will know.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 11th May 2011 at 11:11.
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:25   #1677
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My dear X Teamie Vinod: Thanks a ton for your prompt reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Dear teamiee...
Let me answer questions for you. I think you are in a dilema if you must wait for a new version of THAR or should you go/not go for the present version.
I'm in no dilemma [pssshhh: You know the circle story] but a few close friends are and they referred - Hope this post helps them take a correct decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
1. No. Chennai market isnt open yet. However places which are traditionally 4wd markets like Coimbatore, trichy, thirunalveli have been opened this month.

2. Exact date of opening of chennai market?- the day you are ready to put your money. Cant say all depends on demand and supply. You know chennai has not tradionally been 4wd market for new vehicles. Hence not on priority. But can assure we will open it very soon.
I'm ready with a cheque and you know the amount - I want a value deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
3. Factory fitted A/C will take time. I cant tell you the time frame. Dealer fitted A/c the only option. Hard top (lockable cabin) option is live with customization- as i had mentioned.
Thanks so much, no wonder chennai has not taken to it yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
4. Let me know which Indian manufacturer provides you warranty even on Manual steering and solid axle if damaged off road? Only manufacturing defects are covered.
Arey, why dont you be the first? Why do you compare with Indian mfg when you are world class

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
5.Change of tyres with different pattern/ make but same size is OK. But if some one puts 31 or 33 inches tyres related damages are not covered. Again this is case to case (technically anything changed that is away from original looses warranty)
Thanks so basically if tyre OD is same, there are no issue with warranty claims - right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
6. No ABS in the scheme of things for now.
Thanks again

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Some where you had mentioned that THAR isnt launched in chennai as it is not ready for off road group in chenai. I have driven with you guys with my faithful MM540 DP 4wd. I can confidently say if not anywhere else, THAR is most definately ready for sandy palar. Sandy terrain is THAR CRDe's strength. As and when vehicles are bought and enter your gang, you will know.
The best way to walk the talk is to be there with "your" gang and show us. BTW, we have improved over the years in our skill sets. Our latest recovery gear is just AMAZING!!

Quote:
I have driven with you guys with my faithful MM540 DP 4wd.
We are not sure whether the THAR is as faithful as the MM540 DP buddy, please prove to the home market with a live demo, oops sorry a vehicle to drive for say 5K kms so we understand and eventually buy one!! [A thar owner has suggested that TDs are not enough to judge the vehicle]

EDIT: OT: I like your signature - It reads "when the going gets tough, the tough get going"

Last edited by headers : 11th May 2011 at 11:28.
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Old 11th May 2011, 12:02   #1678
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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
Simple observations/Questions I have for my ownself?:

How many of our(TBHP) hard core jeepers have picked up the THAR(Crdi or MDi) so far? Based on the numbers, what is thier initial feedback?Also, how many of our esteemed TBHP members who had the sneak preview into the THAR pre-launch now own one? Based on the numbers, what has been thier initial feedback? Those of you who have driven this car much before its launch had great feedback and were waiting for the mule. It would be interesting to know why these THAR Fans' did not yet buy it. I know and have spoken to couple of them personally and they are waiting for the V2. So, can M&M confirm and not pass this repetitive question of THAR V2?
getsurya,

First of all, there is no V2 coming in now or later, it is pure assumption.

About 2 years back I test drove the Thar, RHD and LHD and my subsequent reportage does not differ from what I feel today, after driving the first Thar delivered in A.P., which I picked up for my younger brother in law, followed by two more (all three in rocky Beige).

The new Thar has a softer rear suspension as compared to the ones I had driven earlier, that is the only difference.

About its handling, torque, on road and off road capability (read my thread, "Thar, my test drive experience") the Thar does not have a contemporary in stock production, period.


Let me state my own reasons for not buying a Thar for myself:

1. I will be leaving for the U.S. for an extended stay with my family later this year, and it seems illogical to buy one now and keep it parked and depreciate in value. (I am not smart enough to make this decision, it was my wife's).

2. When I do, I will buy the AC Thar.

I love building a Jeep more than buying one and am presently working on a CJ 340, otherwise I would disregard the logic and reason in the above two reasons and buy a Thar.
Regards,
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Old 11th May 2011, 12:13   #1679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishal Rajan View Post
Behram,

In all fairness the product is kick ***, I ve had 3 test drives of the Thar at NBS . Just trying hard to convice my self, but the interiors of the test vehicle were broken bits of the winder , door lock etc. .....

Take My word, customers are shying away from the interior quality thats about it......

This is a fantastic product , the ride handling, braking ,on road ,off road are all top class for a civilian( Thats why we call it CJ). May be serious mudpluggers are not in for it and want to tear the product to shreds talking about crawling, articulation etc .Beg your pardon, but most guys dont even know the right rev ratio while doing off roading.Check out our enthusiast who make the engine sream in the name of offroading and dune bashing.Taking it for aswim ?? well iwould avoid that ..rather do a dry offroad

Behram ,I repeat your product is top class and you dont need to give any justifications to any one.Just good interiors , ac powerwindows at a reasonable price is what needed , the rest we would do the needful.


To sum it up Thar = to a super product , as reliable as the sun
downside - interiors
Vishal,
I know you love THAR, but the interior pains you. You have expressed this here on facebook and even on mails to me. The change is not over night unfortunately. We are taking steps in right direction.

I had said this earlier, we have afair idea on what is working for THAR and what needs improvement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
My dear X Teamie Vinod: Thanks a ton for your prompt reply:






The best way to walk the talk is to be there with "your" gang and show us. BTW, we have improved over the years in our skill sets. Our latest recovery gear is just AMAZING!!

We are not sure whether the THAR is as faithful as the MM540 DP buddy, please prove to the home market with a live demo, oops sorry a vehicle to drive for say 5K kms so we understand and eventually buy one!! [A thar owner has suggested that TDs are not enough to judge the vehicle]

EDIT: OT: I like your signature - It reads "when the going gets tough, the tough get going"
Inshah allah, if time permits we shall be there and promise will let your improved recovery gear as little as possible.

BTW My signature says- When the going gets tough- THAR gets going
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Old 11th May 2011, 12:13   #1680
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When will my queries get answered???!!!
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