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Old 24th August 2012, 20:47   #2296
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

@Behram Dhabar:

I drove the Thar in very heavy rain during the Monsoon Challenge.
There was no water intrusion into the cabin. In fact it was possible to keep the windows half way down as well.
I guess the shape of the windscreen also helped in this.

My only complaint was that the clear plastic parts became very dirty and created blind spots.
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Old 25th August 2012, 11:10   #2297
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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I drove the Thar in very heavy rain during the Monsoon Challenge. There was no water intrusion into the cabin. In fact it was possible to keep the windows half way down as well. I guess the shape of the windscreen also helped in this
Dear bblost - thank you for your comment on canopy engineering. I had tested the canopy extensively, also taking care of the body to body production variability. I had given design cues to the vendor on the methodology to close the edges to prevent water entry. The curve that you see at the B pillar location is an intentional design cue. The overlap of the canopy outside its side mounting rails throws a pre-determined mass flow of water outside the vehicle, equivalent to a typical Mumbai or a Kerala monsoon. The "hard" inner lining extends into the cavity above the windshield frame rail which ejects water from the glass. Even after giving all this explanation, there was a huge "generated" controversy surrounding the "water entry" issue acceptance criteria for production vehicles. .

However, as a customer, you have given me the final acceptance criteria on the canopy, so thank you. . At least now (I hope) good sense prevails and people understand who has done what to ensure success of this vehicle in the marketplace.

The "accessory" half canopy is a joke by comparison!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th August 2012, 12:07   #2298
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I think the dealers need education on the above DB sir.

That would make most customers happy customers
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Old 27th August 2012, 09:14   #2299
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I think the dealers need education on the above DB sir. That would make most customers happy customers
Dear Vikram - your suggestion is correct. It is also logical because it is based on common sense, but it is easier said than done when the poor dealer is bombarded with corporate types all the time (read company types, who also know everything but are forced to keep quiet to retain their jobs), whose main job is to get the dealer to fill forms for everything except having their morning breakfast. I think nowadays even having lunch has to become a process. I am not against processes because in a large environment where there are innumerable variables, proper implementation of robustly designed processes is the only way to succeed, but they must not be at the cost of the customer and the product. This is an area where improvement is required, hence I am mentioning it. If this is implemented, quality and value proposition of the business that the dealer does will improve significantly. Accessories is just a small part of it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 27th August 2012, 16:32   #2300
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Vikram - your suggestion is correct. It is also logical because it is based on common sense, but it is easier said than done when the poor dealer is bombarded with corporate types all the time (read company types, who also know everything but are forced to keep quiet to retain their jobs), whose main job is to get the dealer to fill forms for everything except having their morning breakfast. I think nowadays even having lunch has to become a process. I am not against processes because in a large environment where there are innumerable variables, proper implementation of robustly designed processes is the only way to succeed, but they must not be at the cost of the customer and the product. This is an area where improvement is required, hence I am mentioning it. If this is implemented, quality and value proposition of the business that the dealer does will improve significantly. Accessories is just a small part of it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
That is bureaucracy at its peak. Forms for the sake of forms, the job be dammed.

There is also the tendency to sell what the dealer has (or more profitable) and not what the customer wants. Else how is it that most of the M&M dealers (and their sales personal) come up with a blank face whenever there is any inquiry regarding 4x4, be it Scorpio Lx or the Thar at the best and blandly state that the product is not available at its worse
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Old 27th August 2012, 23:04   #2301
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Dear Suedehead - Thar production canopy is engineered for Thar application. There is an engineering drawing for it. I conceptualized, designed, developed, prototyped tested and introduced it. I had set three requirements. 1 - it must be black in color and not fade. 2 - water must not come inside. 3 - it must not wrinkle. I have also met the requirement of using it with AC also. If you look at the inner lining above the front seats, its intention is to give a good "feel to the soft top experience", offered for the first time in India. It will also interest you to know that Thar is the first soft top Indian vehicle to be offered with factory fitted AC in this market segment. One of the design intents was complied by providing thin velcro strips to align the flaps next to the tail gate to prevent water and wind noise from intruding. There are plastic strips inside the lower ends in both sides to prevent flapping and curving, if you put 12 mm diameter aluminium pipes in their place, canopy will behave better. For one vehicle, you can do it. In comparison, the half top with which you got with your vehicle is just a very poorly made dealer fited accessory, it is not engineered. I had told you in one of my previous posts, now you have seen and realized the difference yourself, so thanks. I once again request you to refrain from using non-engineered products, irrespective of who offers them to you. Please use production canopy, there is value in it.

Borg Warner transfer case does not have provision for 4WD Hi / 4WD Lo indicators. Reason is simple, it is cost. In my opinion, it is not a compulsory feature as 2WD Hi and 4WD Lo are located at the extreme ends of the gear lever travel. We can debate this point to death for nothing so spare me the agony all of you, but in the interest of simplicity also, I would not advocate having it, it serves no great purpose.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Mr. Dhabhar, Many thanks. I agree the full canopy is a 100 times better. Unfortunately, I did make the error of pre-paying for all accesories and by the time I read your post, it was too late. Neverthless, I do have the full canopy and all bits and pieces less the LHS rear assey rod. I'll have this fitted within the next two weeks. I have really started liking Thar's on the road with the full canopy.

Sir, I do have a question for you and it may albeit be a very silly one. (Tech Guru's / Thar Veterans, please do answer -I need help). I had asked the dealership (in my case NBS) to fit in 2 nos 12V power outlets (cigarette lighter types). Anyway's, it was not done amongst many other dramas. I am now told by their customer care (How I've ended up with customer care is another long epic); that this is not possible. This I do not understand. How is this logical? It just isnt? How else do the Thar's with CB radios and GPS units sail?! I am very hesitant to go to an external garage because I do not want to much around with vehicle electricals / wiring.

The customer care story I will share post a negative or positive outcome. So far M&M is falling deep in my bad books. Talking to M&M is a bit like the SBI of 10 years ago and no offense to SBI of today.

I am also sharing 2 pics of my jeep.

Sincere regards.
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Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review-img2012082600683.jpg  

Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review-img2012082600684.jpg  

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Old 28th August 2012, 08:40   #2302
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
Sir, I do have a question for you and it may albeit be a very silly one. (Tech Guru's / Thar Veterans, please do answer -I need help). I had asked the dealership (in my case NBS) to fit in 2 nos 12V power outlets (cigarette lighter types). Anyway's, it was not done amongst many other dramas. I am now told by their customer care (How I've ended up with customer care is another long epic); that this is not possible. This I do not understand. How is this logical? It just isnt? How else do the Thar's with CB radios and GPS units sail?! I am very hesitant to go to an external garage because I do not want to much around with vehicle electricals / wiring.
Well, it is not silly at all. It is one of the craziest oversights in Thar. When I drove the Thar to Wayanad and back, I carried my GPS and phone charger assuming the obvious. But I was stunned to find that a modern day vehicle didn't have 12V power outlet. Even my 1994 CJ340 had a 12V outlet when I bought it, which I have retained and use all the time.

As murphy's law states, I ended up needing tyre inflation in the OTR trail. After an hour of search I even managed to borrow a tyre inflator. But I didn't have the power outlet to make it work. So I had to borrow the 12V from Tanzeem's Land Rover.

Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review-p7130802.jpg

This the major bane of Thar, it misses most of the conveniences that are taken for granted in the 21st century. Therefore, once you buy the Thar you have to spend anywhere between 1L to 3L to make it hospitable. Just like one has to do after buying a 20 year old Jeep. What is even sillier is that the Mahindra Workshop will refuse to add those common sense features, forcing you to go to outside garages.

Last edited by Samurai : 28th August 2012 at 09:01.
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Old 28th August 2012, 09:00   #2303
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

I ended up wiring two cig-lighters via a fuse directly off the battery.
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Old 28th August 2012, 09:08   #2304
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There are eight theories regarding the absence of power outlet in the Thar:

1. The power outlet draws more current -> more strain on alternator to charge battery -> engine needs to do more work for this -> won't meet CMVR norms then.

It was there in vehicle 521 during a brief test period but due to CMVR could not be transferred to production.

2. We have all the necessary drawings and engineering diagrams ready for this. However, to get is approved is a process -> nowadays even having lunch has to become a process -> if i can't eat my lunch without filling a form, i'll be damned if i'm gonna give you a power socket.

3. It will be released in version 3 of the Thar

4. The dealer has been given the necessary drawings for the fitment -> however, in a large environment where there are innumerable variables, proper implementation of robustly designed processes is the only way to succeed, but they must not be at the cost of the customer and the product. This is an area where improvement is required, hence mentioning it. If this is implemented, quality and value proposition of the business that the dealer does will improve significantly. Accessories is just a small part of it and the marketing department thinks that the customer can live without a power socket.

However, if you want to add it, PM me and i will guide you in totality.

5. You did not mention requirement of power socket in the thread where you were asked what you wanted in the new jeep. Please read correctly.

6. As you are aware, we started designing on a shoe string budget and we just couldn't afford to incorporate the power source in our drawings -> let me explain why -> a power source comes under the technical heading titled External Output of Battery Power for Consumer Electronic Gadgets (EOBPCEG). Now for this we would need to have a separate department to formulate ideal guidelines which would be need to meet CMVR guidelines. Thus, we would have to assign a manager, a law expert, an engineer for drawing the necessary guidelines. Then get a CAD guy to do drawings, etc etc etc. Also we would need to assign then a special cafeteria with cooks, waiters and washers since nowadays getting lunch has also been a process.

7. The power outlet could be used in conjunction with a cigarette lighter to light your smokes. However, since our exhaust already leaks into the body and our perfectly engineered soft top is so good that it keeps all the exhaust smoke inside, we thought it was our moral responsibility to discourage you from smoking.

8. Reason for not having a power socket is simple, it is cost. In my opinion, it is not a compulsory feature. We can debate this point to death for nothing so spare me the agony all of you, but in the interest of simplicity also, I would not advocate having it, it serves no great purpose. In our time, we used to do all navigation without GPS and used the sun and stars for getting our bearings and ofcourse there were no mobile phones at that time. Invest in a good foot pump, will give you a good workout as well.

In summary: the 521 did the examm and akc without the need for a power outlet. it was a true thar and even beat a race spec honda civic which had a power outlet on the highway. The power outlet thus also sucks out valuable power.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 28th August 2012 at 09:34. Reason: corrected some typos and added point 8
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Old 28th August 2012, 10:53   #2305
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@Tejas - Oh my God....that was the funniest thing I have read in a long time!!

[left]Thank you for that post - it has brightened up my morning while at the same time bringing tears to my eyes (due to sadness) from the pain I feel with my Thar at times - especially after reading explanations about why something is the way it is.

I will be printing this post, laminating it and keeping it in my Thar's glove box along with the ownership papers. I hope you don't mind.

On a side note - I have 2 sockets in my Thar - one on the dash - got it done on JC Road (aftermarket) by the guy who fitted my power windows and auto door locks. I also have a socket integrated into my hard top for the rear seat passengers - done by a local tinker.

I have not had any issues with either and have had no problems with the A.S.S when I have done my free services.

Regards,
Manas

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 28th August 2012 at 12:09.
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Old 28th August 2012, 11:47   #2306
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@Tejas - Oh my God....that was the funniest thing I have read in a long time!!

Thank you for that post - it has brightened up my morning while at the same time bringing tears to my eyes (due to sadness) from the pain I feel with my Thar at times - especially after reading explanations about why something is the way it is.



I'll wait and see what the dealership says after due deliberation. If everything fails; aftermarket it is. On a separate note, while the sun, moon, stars and the local chai walla may often be good as navigation aids; some of us (including a definite myself) are inanely geographically challenged and positively introverted to the extent of even avoiding mumbling abuses to oneself, leave alone the elusive "it's just a km ahead" direction recieved!

Have a lovely day ahead. Best regards.

Last edited by Technocrat : 28th August 2012 at 19:35. Reason: ONly 2 smileys per post allowed, please read the board rules before proceeding, thanks
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Old 28th August 2012, 12:08   #2307
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Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
I am also sharing 2 pics of my jeep.
Awesome, just awesome!
These are killer looks that make people overlook all the functional shortcomings.

Hope the real J-E-E-P drives out of Ranjangaon soon.

Cheers!
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Old 28th August 2012, 12:49   #2308
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Dear Mr. Dhabhar........

I am also sharing 2 pics of my jeep.
Your Thar looks awesome with the half canopy !

What all accessories did you buy and can you give us the costing ? none of the pune dealers have the price list for the official accessories/customisations.
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Old 28th August 2012, 12:57   #2309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Awesome, just awesome!
These are killer looks that make people overlook all the functional shortcomings.

Hope the real J-E-E-P drives out of Ranjangaon soon.

Cheers!
Hope the real 'Jeep'does not miss out on essentials to ostensibly keep the price down!
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Old 28th August 2012, 13:37   #2310
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Your Thar looks awesome with the half canopy !

What all accessories did you buy and can you give us the costing ? none of the pune dealers have the price list for the official accessories/customisations.
Thank you. I have attached for you a PDF for accesories (that I recieved from my dealer) that you may pick and choose. It has current costs and part numbers. In saying that, do think hard for some of them are for purely cosmetic as I have discovered.

For me, I did the expedition bumpers, seat covers, stereo and the side step from the expedition kit. I think it is sturdier than the broad aluminium one. Obviously I did the half top, which I really repent courtesy the monsoon. I did 2 nos. Hella Driving lamps & 2 nos. Hella fog lamps. (Sincerely suggest you have auxillary lamps installed with someone good and using two relays in place of one; assuming you will use these lamps). I also got alloys but not sure if I like them in retrospection. Gosh I am a retrospective man!
I also traded in my stock HT Dueller tires at my friendly neighborhood Yoko dealership for slightly wider Geolander AT's. (This I am very happy about). The tire Guru's may not approve but I personally think the vehicle rides significantly better and more firmly planted. Also got a couple of free D Shackles. One got stolen! But I plan to get better ones. They cost approx INR 250 each.

For the future I want / need - 2 nos 12V sockets.

I am seriously contemplating a good winch and related paraphernelia.

I am actively considering a CB radio but am constantly stumping myself with the classic question, "Hello, is there anybody out there? Anybody? Anybody at all?!!! Wooo hoooo. Thar152 reporting no contact, Out". At this stage, it feels like buying the only phone in town!

Best regards.
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File Type: pdf Thar Expedition Kit.pdf (968.1 KB, 1248 views)
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