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Old 7th January 2011, 21:24   #256
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

The South African Thar costs R170000 ex-showroom which as per my calculations after currency conversion and scaling (after taking the top-end Scorpio's price in South Africa into consideration) corresponds to around Rs.8 lakh in Indian currency. Remove the custom duties and extra goodies (let's say Rs.1 lakh) and the price is still Rs.7 lakh ex-showroom.

My calculations might be wrong but this is just to have an idea why the Indian Thar is not overpriced w.r.t the pricing of its international counterparts.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:29   #257
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

First of all dont go making any spook video about me after you read this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
Please explain why a Gypsy costs Rs. 6.5 lakhs. The Gypsy has remained unchanged for the last 15-odd years except for the minor changes to the engine.
====
If Maruti can sell the Gypsy with a hard top and a Diesel engine at even Rs.7 lakh on-road, I'll join the Thar bashing as well.
1) Gypsy is another overpriced product!!! Its the Jap manufacturing and design standards that have kept it chugging along with the armed forces sales.

2) 15 years Gypsy has changed in parts like its track, engine capacity etc. But yes the price also has not been increased substantially, if you account for money evaluation. But still its equally an over priced product atleast by 50k. But finish and fit is atleast 2 notches above Thar we see now.

3) MUL will not bring out a diesel anytime soon.
a) Its not a bread and butter model .29% or something is its share of sales this month?? Which is almost 99% sold in govt market.
b) They dont have any ready made engine which will gel well. 1.3 DDIs is the closest, but the production number is low and cant even cope up with the need from other models like Swift, Dezire etc, for the engine.

In short we as customers are locked with these 2 manufacturers. Which one is a bigger evil you decide, which will suite your needs that is also your own judgement.

For me Gypsy wins coz its cheaper, simpler, much better interiors and bullet proof track record. Perfect for my long distance OTR vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
The Legend, which was way ancient compared to the Thar, costed Rs. 8 lakh on road and this was before the recent inflation, mind you.
How many of those sold? We dont want the same fate for Thar and hence the hue and cry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
Mahindra would have provided higher quality bits but then the price would have escalated to close to 8 lakhs. The MM540 shell was never designed to hold a plastic dashboard. M&M had two options: Design a completely new dashboard or to improvise (jugaad) on the Bolero Dashboard. They chose the latter because the former was expensive. You win some, you lose some.
But how much would the vendor charge additional to make it better quality? Take a guess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
The Thar is a special case. It's not a make or break vehicle for the company fortunes. It's just a product which is the culmination of the passion of a few enthusiastic individuals.
Am not taking anything away from the team behind it BUT there is more to it than enthusiasm and passion. Anyone's guess. Yes it might be the enthusiast who made it available here in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
Some criticism? Every alternate post is talking about the same thing. . The interiors are pathetic. Point taken. What's next?
It is a serious issue when you spend 7.3 lakhs buddy! And its not limited to dash, if you spent 30 mts sitting, walking around the vehicle you will see what i mean. Imagine owning somthing like that for few years after your account is lighter by so many lakhs.



EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
My calculations might be wrong but this is just to have an idea why the Indian Thar is not overpriced w.r.t the pricing of its international counterparts.
Forget any comparison (and there is lot more to your calculations, it aint that simple). Do you really think that one needs to pay so much? for a vehicle which is a mix and match of existing parts? No comparison, forget competition, forget everything. Just answer as if you are out in the market for a 4x4 vehicle and you are looking at Thar, would YOU spent so much?

Anyways as you mentioned earlier there is no point taking this debate further. If people see value they will buy if not they will. Lets wait and watch for some monthly sales figure in the coming months.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th January 2011 at 21:35.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:30   #258
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

salilpawar1 you have your head firmly planted on your shoulders
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:36   #259
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Salil, no one is really talking about the cost factor, all that we are discussing about is the quality that is offered at this price.

Did you happen to check the interior quality of SA Thar, are they providing the same crappy interiors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
The South African Thar costs R170000 ex-showroom which as per my calculations after currency conversion and scaling (after taking the top-end Scorpio's price in South Africa into consideration) corresponds to around Rs.8 lakh in Indian currency. Remove the custom duties and extra goodies (let's say Rs.1 lakh) and the price is still Rs.7 lakh ex-showroom.

My calculations might be wrong but this is just to have an idea why the Indian Thar is not overpriced w.r.t the pricing of its international counterparts.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:37   #260
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Are we asking for the moon here??

Best of luck. Go ahead, honestly, people will buy what they see value in. As you can see by the responses here, most people think other wise and want FULL return of the money they pay to M&M for this Thar -- including the interiors.
In M&M terms, this is indeed the moon. Scorpio was their death star fwiw. But again, as a long term 4x4 guy, you know this.

You have owned a gypsy for so long - tell me how much work you have put into it (interiors/ exteriors etc). Wouldn't you spend that extra 10 -20 grands to get the interiors cleaned up? HT / AC - even if company gives you - they are gonna charge you. As I said I don't think 7L is too high considering inflation - so that debate becomes subjective. Which is exactly why I am ok with this.

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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Right now it seems that M&M wants us to be like the old ambassador customers. Take Thar from Mahindra and then take it to the garage to rebuild it -- the way ambassador used to be done. If that's what Mahindra was thinking, they have got it wrong...!!!!
I agree totally. As a company I have no love for them fwiw. Just that the jeep thing is something close to my heart. If tata indeed bought wrangler and released it in India, it would be bye bye thar time for me in a moment. But since that has not happened, I am gonna keep my feet on the ground and keep my eyes on the present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Actually it is this market segment that will be the MOST disappointed as they were the perfect customers for Thar. And they have to wait for V2. Question is, who will buy the V1?
Why are we trying to solve this? This is Mahindra's problem and they will deal with it themselves. Invader was not really considered a success vehicle, but there were people who bought it. I am sure there will be someone who will compensate the budget for this - If not, I am sure M&M has deep pockets to take this hit.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:45   #261
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

So all that M&M needs to do is better the quality of interiors? And we would see more sales?

M&M I think that a genuine ask...
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:46   #262
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Default Only half tongue in cheek.

A sudden thought struck me. As to why the Thar has no A/C, hardtop, and appalling fit and finish. And it is brilliant in its deviousness and simplicity.

It is to prevent ladies from using this vehicle. That would have totally destroyed MMs brand image. Cannot be allowed. But with A/C, hardtop, and todays standard for interiors, the Thar would have easily slipped into the role of the 2nd family 'car', primary vehicle for the wife.

I have known of two ladies in Calcutta whose daily driver was a Jeep (500DP in one case, and 3B in the other). Both said they were far more relaxed driving the Jeep. Worldwide also, a lot of ladies drive SUVs. (The men drive trucks)

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Old 7th January 2011, 21:53   #263
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
First of all dont go making any spook video about me after you read this!
You are giving me ideas. LOL.

Quote:
1) Gypsy is another overpriced product!!! Its the Jap manufacturing and design standards that have kept it chugging along with the armed forces sales. Completely agree. I said it in my previous post as well "two wrongs do not make a right". The Gypsy is overpriced for a reason and many of them because the low volumes cannot justify a lower price tag. Same is the case for Thar. Had the Thar been for the doodhwala, paperwala, chickenwala, taxiwala.. it would have been much cheaper because the sales and production would have been much higher.

2) 15 years Gypsy has changed in parts like its track, engine capacity etc. But yes the price also has not been increased substantially, if you account for money evaluation. But still its equally an over priced product atleast by 50k. But finish and fit is atleast 2 notches above Thar we see now. I haven't seen a brand new Gypsy very closely for a while so I take your word with regards to fit and finish levels.

3) MUL will not bring out a diesel anytime soon.
a) Its not a bread and butter model .29% or something is its share of sales this month?? Which is almost 99% sold in govt market.
b) They dont have any ready made engine which will gel well. 1.3 DDIs is the closest, but the production number is low and cant even cope up with the need from other models like Swift, Dezire etc, for the engine.
Exactly my point. Maruti would have engineered a diesel Gypsy but it would have cost 8 lakhs on road. M&M probably had similar issues and that is why, there was sceptism to launch it in India in the first place. They made it possible within 7 lakhs albeit with some glaring compromises on fit and finish. While there are many, who will hate the Thar for this, but there are many like me as well. I could have lived with the interiors if I was in the market for buying one.

In short we as customers are locked with these 2 manufacturers. Which one is a bigger evil you decide, which will suite your needs that is also your own judgement.

For me Gypsy wins coz its cheaper, simpler, much better interiors and bullet proof track record. Perfect for my long distance OTR vehicle.
Everyone has different requirements. It's a free market afterall.
Replies in bold

Quote:
How many of those sold? We dont want the same fate for Thar and hence the hue and cry.
The Legend was a stupid Limited Edition anyway. A vehicle similar to the Legend has been launched without the cosmetic bells and whistles and a DI engine for just Rs.5.5 lakhs. It's called the BS3 Thar DI. .
EDIT: This is the doodhwala (aam janta) Thar. And that is why it is cheap. That is exactly why it isn't BS4. I suggest T-BHP to review the fit and finish levels of the DI as well and am sure the CRDe will suddenly start feeling like a VFM buy.

Quote:
But how much would the vendor charge additional to make it better quality? Take a guess?
Best left for the M&M guys to answer. I would also like to see a better finished Thar.

Quote:
Am not taking anything away from the team behind it BUT there is more to it than enthusiasm and passion. Anyone's guess. Yes it might be the enthusiast who made it available here in India.

It is a serious issue when you spend 7.3 lakhs buddy! And its not limited to dash, if you spent 30 mts sitting, walking around the vehicle you will see what i mean. Imagine owning somthing like that for few years after your account is lighter by so many lakhs.
Agree. Maybe my tastes/expectations with regards to fit and finish are not that great. LOL. Understandable considering I have spent a large part of my automotive life in Premiers, Mahindras and Tatas.

Last edited by salilpawar1 : 7th January 2011 at 22:06.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:57   #264
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Default Re: Only half tongue in cheek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubuS View Post
I am gonna keep my feet on the ground and keep my eyes on the present.
=====
Why are we trying to solve this? This is Mahindra's problem and they will deal with it themselves.
If all the consumers started acting like this, manufacturers will have a ball of time selling amby's at 10 lakhs. My foot is very much rooted in reality and hence disappointed with what i have been offered coz am the one who is spending or NOT.

We are sharing our feedback, M&M or for that matter any manufacturer can take it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
A sudden thought struck me.
======
Worldwide also, a lot of ladies drive SUVs. (The men drive trucks)
This got me

EDIT
Quote:
Thar been for the doodhwala, paperwala, chickenwala, taxiwala.. it would have been much cheaper because the sales and production would have been much higher.
Its called Thar Di.

Quote:
I haven't seen a brand new Gypsy very closely for a while so I take your word with regards to fit and finish levels.
You can take my word for it, or just inspect a 2-3 year old gypsy. Everything will be in place, nothing would have fallen off.

Quote:
While there are many, who will hate the Thar for this, but there are many like me as well. I could have lived with the interiors if I was in the market for buying one.
I will get convinced when i see the sales chart, maybe am wrong and i will have to appologise. BUT lets wait and watch.

Quote:
Understandable considering I have spent a large part of my automotive life in Premiers, Mahindras and Tatas.
That is not an excuse i can accept

EDIT 2

My wifee was going through the test drive report and she asked me if i was mad to spent so much money. For a vehicle which has even worse glove box than her mom's 2001 model zen. She is a person with 0% knowledge about anything automotive and that is her feedback lol

Point being, this is what a floating potential customer would also comment, inside a M&M showroom after seeing the current Thar.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th January 2011 at 22:10.
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:01   #265
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Dont we have a Tbhp member from SA who owns a Thar? Or was it only his pics posted on thar threads? May be we can ask many interior pics from that gentleman and compare it here.
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:07   #266
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Jaggu,
Check my edit as well
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:16   #267
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
EDIT: This is the doodhwala (aam janta) Thar. And that is why it is cheap. That is exactly why it isn't BS4. I suggest T-BHP to review the fit and finish levels of the DI as well and am sure the CRDe will suddenly start feeling like a VFM buy.
Same trim and finish with Crde engine i would put it at 5.5-5.75 lakhs OTR max. Am very very careful these days when i throw my money away.

Pictures speak alot AND i dont think apart from the paint preparation/rust proof and final paint finish nothing much is different between the Di and Crde. For all this i will need around 20k INR in a reputed garage here in bangalore.
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:32   #268
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Why is the hue and cry over the Thar being 7.3 lakhs?

Its ex showroom cost is pretty less.5.99 lakhs in delhi.6.28 in mumbai.

Why are you zeroing it to bangalore? Its not made solely made for bangalore.Too bad your state has this policy of making cars super expensive but just like company policy isn't your headache, the road tax isn't the company's headache either.

Do you know most of india doen't have this expensive road tax.Do you know chandigarh has a road tax of 5000 flat.Yes Five thousand.So this will cost 6.35 there with approx 30 for insurance.

Why is it being said that the interiors are not worth a 7.5 lakh car etc.Its a 6 lakh vehicle.Also when you compare it to the safari's interior at 12 lakhs, its still better.
I have a tata safari worth 12 lakhs.Its interiors are more shoddy that my santro for gods sake and you're comparing the thar to the slightly lesser costing hatchbacks.
Are those hatchbacks giving you the go anywhere capability?are they giving you 4X4?

Forget hardcore offroading, can you do that going around the mud like tejas has in any of the so called comparable sedans.

Coming to the gypsy.Its a great offroader and every child's dream to own one with FAT tires.Mine too.But then there are shortcomings in every car.Like in the gypsy its the petrol engine and the bouncy ride and the light body shell.So why can't we get a deisel in a gypsy at the same price of why can't it be heavier.See there are shortcomings in every vehicle.Some which you can live with and some with others including me can live with.

Frankly not every one can live with a hardcore offroading vehicle which has been built in a workshop.I don't trust the build quality.Thats my belief and no one can change that.Similarly no one can change your dislike for the interior.It is shoddy no doubet.But i can live with it.



Now can we stop beating the dead horse and move ahead?

Yes its been done for and this topic is finally over.Mahindra has not given good interiors and thats that! you can't do anything about it.I can't do anything about it.So just forget it and enjoy your gypsy or if you're buying it then the thar.Simple.Why just go on and on and on about it.

You all have better options with the market bustling with better offroad options like the mm540 done from scratch with all the ABDCEFGH options loaded.Go get them.Why are you guys trying to put the nail in the heads of the potential customers that the interiors are not good not good not good.Yes i got the point man! Now lets move on!
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:59   #269
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Its not a given that the Thar was inevitably going to be released in India. Chances are that if not pursued by a few people both within and outside Mahindra the car's local launch may not have happened for a couple of years to come !

Now the car is released in India. It will be available to more cities in the coming months.

Every car goes through this phase of feedback from end users. Its valuable. Its not so easy and cut and dry as mfg dishes something out and the buying public accepts it. Balancing the economics of it all Mahindra have given it their best shot considering its not a given this car may succeed.

Now the questions that need to be asked are:

How many numbers will it do across the country monthly
What aspects of the car are causing it to sell?
What applications is the car finding itself in?
Is its success being curtailed because of a major flaw?
What tweaks if any need to be carried it out to enhance its sales success?

All this will throw light on how it is received by the target audience.

Mahindra need to process all the info coming in about the Thar in terms of the feedback and sales figures to then decide their next course of action.

People usually have more specific needs than the importance of a tailor made smart dashboard or finish.

My Jeep when it came home had hardly any scratches. Now it looks like its been through a war ! So issues of finish are not so important to someone who is looking at this vehicle primarily as an offroad/utlity/exploration device. Nor is the dashboard issue of paramount importance.

BUT these are points Mahindra need to make note of in their diary. Its yet to be seen if these are of critical importance.

As I see it, and chances are it will happen, the Thar will find favour with the younger crowd. And then its more about 2wd and alloys and trendy colours and interiors. Its about flawless finishes as it becomes a lifestyle statement.

On the other hand if Mahindra start picking up their Army orders, Police and other govt agencies, if it starts finding appeal to the gentleman farmer who needs a butch vehicle which is capable offroad and still smart then they will not be in a tearing hurry to fix things

If guys like Allan turn this into a super drool worthy machine they will be instrumental in triggering a new wave of young people opting for the Thar as a lifestyle option as opposed to settling for a premium hatch.

The future for the Thar is bright and indeed very interesting. Things are changing in the Indian auto market.

The Thar just might be the offroader that will trigger a whole new market for offroad machines.

Last edited by DKG : 7th January 2011 at 23:04.
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Old 7th January 2011, 23:10   #270
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

I have just one question.

Would Mahindra have dared to release the Thar with such crappy and potentially dangerous interiors in the US.

Is it ok if we Indians cut our fingers.

Do we not bleed when our fingers get cut.
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