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Old 10th January 2011, 11:04   #406
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Visited the Mahindra Showroom on Ghodbunder Road near Kasar Wadavli.

The Thar is on display outside the showroom on a 3-10 feet high sloping pile of red mud and rocks sloping downward from the front.

It looks great and the display conveys what the vehicle is for.

The Thar has great presence on the outside.

The bonnet clips are already rusting.

The interiors are horrible. They look worse than in the snaps, the dash board looks worse than anything that I have ever seen among plastic dash. i guess metal was not possible as it would not pass safety standards, but this...

The first M800 had a better plastic dash and the Revised Ambs bad plastic dash also looks a generation ahead.

The AC vents look like they are made of plastic for toys (indian made toys) the chinese toys are better.

The Seat material?

Why provide carpeting when that is just not possible to use to offroading? Why not instead provide rubber matting by default - preferable something premium and washable/

The Metallic Gey, Golden and Red all look good.

No vehicle is available for test drive and the centre is not aware of when test drive vehicle will be available.

One needs to take the Thar and rip appart the dash and make a new customized one - I guess 20k should do it, pls spend a bit more and get new stiched pesudo leather seat cover for the front seats, and door pannels also one needs to refit one of the two rear seats in the front facing format in the reat. Then get a decent cover, a winch and if comfort is required than it needs an AC and a hard top.

The front guard looks good and the car looks ready for customization, I guess on needs to add about 1.5-2L to the car for getting it ready to be a true life style vehicle and it would land close to 9 - 9.5L then though it is closer to the xenon it would be a better offroader than the Xenon. The Adventure shown in this thread is around this pricing and looks great.

Somehow Mahindra should have done better with the interiors to make it decent enough without customization in the interiors, the other things could be lived with for a lifestyle vehicle.

By the way go a brouchure of the Thar- Nice one - Wide landsape shaped in roughly 7"-13" size that is hard to scan - which explains why it is not yet up on this thread. I gues the site must give a "e" copy of this.

The Thar does tick some boxes correctly - bang on, and misses some others completely.

Last edited by ACM : 10th January 2011 at 11:06.
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Old 10th January 2011, 11:50   #407
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

I took a short TD of the Thar at the Delhi launch event.
MY take
1. Interiors are horrid. I am not used to jeeps, so maybe this is expected. That said, it was very cold and cloudy,and I literally froze in the open top.In the current form, I cannot drive this vehicle in sub zero environments
2. I live in NCR, which has lot of incidences of theft of vehicles, as well as theft of stuff from vehicles. So for me a HT is a must
3. NCR also gets a very blistering summer, so without AC, its a no go. Mahindra execs said that the target audience does want to get close to nature, so they do not want AC, maybe I am not the target. I did Rajasthan in winters once and day temp reached 35 degrees.
4. Speaking of HT, when I buy a vehicle, it will be a daily driver. I do NH1 frequently where its very dusty due to construction, so a well sealed cabin is a must. Ditto for ladakh. Dust can get in from anywhere if cabin is not sealed. For the record, I do not find the Safari cabin sealed enough .

Other points
1. IFS - I simply love it. I would not take a brand new vehicle whether its a CJ3B or a Hummer, or a land rover, or the bowler wild cat for hard core offroading. I am a long trail driver, and I offroad when its necessary for me to offroad, i.e. to reach my destination.
2. Rear seats - CMVR or no CMVR, I cannot digest the side facing seats


So will I sell my safari any buy the Thar?
Well I cannot
1. I cannot offer me the comfort I need. I have driven 12 hours + in a day in many drives, and this seat, though not bad will still kill me.
2. HT and AC are a must because of the terrains I do. The Thar will survive anything I will throw at it. I have no doubt about that at all. But I will not survive what the Thar throws at me

So what was I looking for?
1. A reasonably well finished vehicle with interiors as good as the scorpio
2. Not to heavy or bulky
3. 4x4
4. Tough

I am willing to pay 7.5L ex showroom for such a vehicle provided I get 3-4 years warranty and I do not have to change suspension bushes every 30,000kms

So from a vehicle point of view Thar will definitely outlast anything us trail drivers will throw at it. But I for one will not last what the Thar throws at me.

So probably I have to wait for the Jimmy, or maybe Mahindra comes with a Thar V2 at 7.5L with all creature comforts and fixes the odd bits so that it does not feel like a jugaad.

I do not want to go back to Safari scorpio route unless absolutely necessary as these vehicles cost 10L+ in their current avatar.
The mini Xylo appeals to me if it does come in 4x4 avatar.

When I look back widen my perpective, and try to see whats wrong with the Thar, it all becomes very clear.
The problem is price
Mahindra was given a target of 5.99 lakhs. What they do not realize that Nano was also once a 1L car. but if you fit in AC and Power windows price goes to 2L
So its okay. Keep a bare bones thar without AC and HT and sell it for 6L ex showroom.
Give it a better dash. Use scorpio parts bin and you will get depreciation benefits

Then have the proper versions
A high end 7.5L version with a well finished proper hard top, good scorpio type seats, noise insulation etc., etc., the works.

City buyers are paying almost 8L for well finished hatches. They will pay 7.5L for a lifestyle vehicle, won't they?

If Mahindra thinks Thar is the end, they are making a mistake. It should be the beginning of the Jeep era again. Thar can be the crudest offering, followed by 8-9L jeeps which are great lookers and are finished like cars are.
Even in the west, jeeps cost 15-20,000$ i.e the price of small and intermediate sedans.
So speaking of equivalent price points, a well finished jeep is okay if it costs 8L ex showroom.


This old MM540 look is okay for some, but I would prefer a more raked windscreen, and better aesthetics.
So a 8L+ jeep with proper aesthetics, and modern looks and all creature comforts is okay, and it will sell,
But will a crude 6L jeep without AC and HT sell, well not much.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 10th January 2011 at 11:55.
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Old 10th January 2011, 14:03   #408
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Hi all, I will write everything in short and open the curtain from the before and after image. I'll limit my comments and photos to Thar only and few of my 550.

We were in the midst of an OTR almost 4 Mahindra Jeeps and 6 gypsies at Raisar Dune near Jaipur. Called our friend there who had purchased Thar about two days ago. He came and as expected Thar was center of attraction.

It did all obstacles like any other good vehicle, got stuck, took several tries, completed everything. One thing which was good was that it was never out of breath. It had lots and lots of power in the wheels.

Bad part was that everyone wanted to drive it and do the obstacles. That took the toll on it. The immense power is not for everybody. One of the driver couldn’t control it and hit another gypsy coming from side. So Thar and gypsy hit each other. DAMN... What happens if a MM550 hits a Gypsy... probably the 550 guy wouldnt even bother to look at his vehicle.

The accident was in the slush pit almost at the end of OTR. A gypsy coming from side hits Thar, well it wasn't a big sound not a very big impact but the bumper came off {Whole bumper- I do not know if that is good or bad or was it detachable.} and the driver still not stopping moved it further and the tyre came over the bumper and it cut the side wall of BFGs. No issue with IFS We jacked it up to change the tyre..

So that is the story. Moral- never give your vehicle to people you do not know personally and trust. Specially if it is a Thar.
While offroading the side fenders [plastic] extension had taken several cracks, footstep and back bumper was intact. Once the vehicle has done one offroading session you wouldn’t care a dame about the interiors. First priority is that interiors should be washable. Only if it is hard top then it would be saved.

I myself drove it at the dune, realised the sheer power in the beast. The vehicle would climb, slide, stall, dig whatever but never did the wheels stop spinning at the sand dune climb. And Power steering- what a blessing it is. Gears were crisp and soft. Switching from my 550 to driving Thar was a pleasant experience.

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It even did some of this, But not this much..

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Old 10th January 2011, 14:22   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Greatmana,

The same can be done on the M&M Torsion Bar IFS, through the Height Control Bolt, on the Height Control Arm.

Regards,

Arka
o.


Super,..any hints on how high the stock ground clearance could go up to.
Currently is 185-187mm right !?

So if we could get say 20 mm more by adjusting ride height,..and another 20 mm using taller tires,...the total GC of 225 + mm ain't to bad.
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Old 10th January 2011, 14:32   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Thanks Ym-enjn.

Those are beautiful alloys.Could you tell me the brand etc and are they available in other colors as well?If possible the price too.
I do not have those details now, will ask the owner and post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
The car looks hot in silver. That desert shot is gorgeous. Getting tempted now !!
Yes it was an absolute beauty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Did this gentleman have a really bad day and use the Thar as a stress buster?
No Nitrous, he was just a bit too generous. One should never give his newly wed wife in hands of others.. hehe.. He was a newbe and did some good stuff but didn’t knew all people in the group- what is the capabilities of other people standing there. One need to bee very cautious in handing over the steering to anyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
All this time i thought the off-center steering was just my imagination, surprised to learn it's actually true.
That really doesn’t matter… in offroad. No idea yet about long drives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ym-enjn - please PM me. I need to talk to you. The "after" photograph has some very interesting observations. I have done umpteen Great Escapes, the AKC, The EXAMM and I do much more than all that in my dirty & plain jane looking but an absolute delight to drive MH01V521 and I have never ever touched my front right fender below the side light.

By the way, what's the Gypsy doing there? Did it do "everything"? .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
If Spike didn't told you that, then it is a very sharp and accurate observation. I agree with you it is an “absolute delight” yes that is the right word.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Like I mentioned in my earlier post, the driver of the Thar must have had serious intent of test-abusing the vehicle.
What he seems to have done doesn't look like method-offroading.
Half correct, yes it was being test driven but on the expense of the owner. Sadly!!! Still all the expert drivers with experience were taking utmost care like their own vehicle, till the less experts and new one started driving it..
But the whole bumper coming off is indigestable.. I have done much more bumper abuse from my 550.. not gud..
Quote:
Originally Posted by slalom View Post
Hi Ym-enjn !

First of all congrats on the " Thar "

You have really put the "Thar" to the test , love to know more about your experiences .

Nice alloys pal ,please give us more details .

I sure think you can give more insight on the " IFS " , the right fender surely is an indication of the test .

Waiting for your OTR snaps .

Cheers !!
Thanks, but it is not mine.. I would have not let anyone even touch it. Regarding IFS- The last two pics above of my 550. Never thought Thar with IFS would be able to do anything like that. But to my surprise it did {sorry no photos}. Not at same obstacles, but a similar ones and a bit smaller that too by the owner a new offroader. We had rock hill section too and the GC was adequate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
-----
I just hope these bull bars and their joints are able to take abuse like pushing other cars and general fooling around with pushing other stuff around.Used to do it with the Armada grand when i was in Chandigarh.Pushing a Zen in punjab university campus was good fun!
No I don’t think so.. I have done similar stuff with 550 and maximum it gets a dent, but never it just comes off.. The impact wasn’t much, you can see the dent in the fender is very minor, still the whole bumper came off. Don’t know what will happen in towing..

Last edited by Ym-enjn : 10th January 2011 at 14:38.
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Old 10th January 2011, 14:43   #411
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Hi Ym-enjn, The Thar looks awesome with those alloys, even the color looks great. Good choice of Rims.
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Old 10th January 2011, 14:43   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ym-enjn View Post
It did all obstacles like any other good vehicle, got stuck, took several tries, completed everything. One thing which was good was that it was never out of breath. It had lots and lots of power in the wheels.
Excellent as Khan and Tejas rightly pointed out, nothing will stop that CRDe engine. It will go on and on. Will be really interesting to see this vehicle this time around in events like TPC where engine power also plays an integral part.

Why did your friend choose BFG, they are not that great in slush. Best for rocks, or deflate like crazy for slush.
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Old 10th January 2011, 14:47   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
The Smaller yet Significant Things:
...
The hard-to-reach rear tailgate opener:


....
@spike and BD. Can this not be taken care of by swapping the rear seats? The shorter seat behind the driver should be moved to the other side (behind the co-driver seat) and the seat should be pushed towards the cabin. This being a shorter seat, will liberate enough room to access the tailgate opening mechanism from the inside.

-Biju

Last edited by pjbiju : 10th January 2011 at 14:52.
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:14   #414
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^^ driver will lose out on leg space/room then. Is what i feel, esp with steering and pedals in front of him, he needs more space behind for seat to move
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:24   #415
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Friends,

I have visited today India garage bangalore to see the THAR CRDE.But highly disappointed to see the serious rusting on doors and different areas on a brand new show room vehicle.

All ready i am having very bad experience of 2 rusting cases with 9 month old vehicles from Mahindra and i was very particular this time to see any improvement has happened on new vehicles.

Picture has taken from mobile camera , more pics to be loaded.
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:25   #416
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Quote:
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A Mahindra Thar 4x4, in my opinion , is a FUN VEHICLE, that the proud owner, like me, can see sunny skies and quickly remove the soft-top and enjoy the vehicle they way it was designed to be enjoyed...'TOPLESS'

Regarding the IFS ....I have done some serious stuff, including climbing the famous Sani Pass, in the Country of Lesotho, here in Africa. I have had no hassels. I am just over 10 000km now and I would say probably 50% of that has been off-road. Yes, you have to watch Rocks...that is driver skills....and yes you may not get the same travel as a diff gets...but that simply adds adrenline to the driver experience as he/she , has to think and negotiate correctly...knowing the capability of the vehicle. etc
Hi Mr. Gavin,
Thanks for joining here & sharing your experience with us. Those are some true words that everyone here will appreciate.
Would love to see your offroading pics & videos / links here on this forum.

BTW check out this video. I think its not shared already on first few pages of review.


Check out the Thar Crawling at an rather steep angle at time frame 2.02 Mins.

Also that climb felt rather steep when Dr. Tejas guns the Thar over the 'First Obstacle' video.

Dear Dr. Tejas/ Khan Sir,
Please remove the video if not ok or shared already.


EDIT: Just saw your post Ym-enjn,
Those are some amazingly crazy pics for a brand new jeep.
After all, no offence, but did the owner bought it as a Toy? I mean giving a brand new vehicle to others to drive like crazy?? Feels sorry for the owner & the Thar.
BTW its good to know that no damage was done to IFS.

Post some more shots of your 550 & Thar. May be you can open up a new thread in excursions. It will be first for a Thar post official launch

Last edited by mobike008 : 11th January 2011 at 13:18. Reason: Stick to 2 Smiley per POST
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:34   #417
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Quote:


Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Thanks Ym-enjn.

Those are beautiful alloys.Could you tell me the brand etc and are they available in other colors as well?If possible the
price too.
Quote:

I do not have those details now, will ask the owner and post here.
Doesn't it look similar to mine ?

Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review-thar8.jpg


FYi : those are Plati Available in Matt Black etc
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:36   #418
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Just saw this vehicle at an Automotive Expo in Palace Grounds in Bangalore.

- The interiors are just horrible PERIOD!!!
- Speedo quality was better in even a 1945 Morris Minor
- The doors shuts like a Godrej File cabinet!! I'm sure people who have tested this vehicle will vouch for what i'm saying
- Overall for 6.5+ Lakhs of your hard earned money its not worth it
- If you're buying this then be prepared to spend another 2-3L to bring the vehicle upto any fathomable standard that can be defined even vaguely as comfortable

Probably Indian manufacturers assume that they will make crappy products and we the customers will buy it as we have no other choice. And more often than not they do manage to get away with it!!

The sales numbers of the Thar will reveal whats true!!
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:37   #419
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Quote:
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Any experienced offroader knows that photos can never depict the difficulty. Since you are not an offroader, I guess you can be excused for thinking otherwise.

Since when general public are expected to do offroading? BE realistic man! I was only referring to a tiny niche of mad offroaders who bring their primary family vehicles Scorpio, Safari, Endeavour, Fortuner, Xenon or GV in spite of knowing the limitations and risks. Obviously you are not aware about these since you are not an offroader.

These are the same people who might buy a brand new Thar just for offroading. The general public who might buy Thar will never take it offroad. So, let's not worry about them.
How did you come to the conclusion that I am not an offroader? Is it because I do not own a 4wd vehicle?? If that is the reason, then Im afraid, even dad is not an offroader. If this is a method of publicly humiliating me, well, i shall ignore it. Would have expected better from someone like "you"

Anyways, coming back to the Thar in YM's post, What you said about the Thar having explosive power is so true. You completely underestimate it when you srive her for the first time. I remember having a wooosh of unimginable power the first time I drove it. Was an unreal feeling!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Doesn't it look similar to mine ?

Attachment 480748


FYi : those are Plati Available in Matt Black etc
Yep. Same wheels, somehow look better in the White/Silver setting. These look fantastic to be honest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post

BTW check out this video. I think its not shared already on first few pages of review.

Check out the Thar Crawling at an rather steep angle at time frame 2.02 Mins.

Also that climb felt rather steep when Dr. Tejas guns the Thar over the 'First Obstacle' video.
I just realized something no one has been really talking about. The technique you would use generally in the older generation of offroaders. I think, an do correct me if i am wrong, but I think, the Thar needs to be put through an obstacle using a bootfull of power and not gingerly as we usually do with the older cars.

Last edited by mobike008 : 11th January 2011 at 13:18. Reason: DO NOT quote large text, video or images. Being a senior bhpian, you should know better :)
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Old 10th January 2011, 16:07   #420
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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How did you come to the conclusion that I am not an offroader? Is it because I do not own a 4wd vehicle?
I don't know what you own. My conclusion was derived from the comments you made, it is easy to make out if a statement is coming out of real experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
If this is a method of publicly humiliating me, well, i shall ignore it. Would have expected better from someone like "you"
What is humiliating about being a non-offroader? At least 95% of the BHPians are not offroaders. There is nothing humiliating about it. I don't know jack about technical side of Jeep, still you don't see me feeling humiliated or trying to preach about things I don't know. In my Jeep thread, I usually ask the silliest questions without any shame.

But, if you feel you are an offroader, I guess you are. I just find your strong statements quite contrary to reality, that's all.

Coming back to Thar. Since the EXAMM (I never saw Thar in action in AKC), I have had no doubts about the ability of Thar. My gripes are mostly about lack of HT, AC and the horrible fit-n-finish for a vehicle costing 7.3L in my state. I am OK with the price, but not happy about what I can getting for that price.
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