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Old 28th January 2011, 22:34   #736
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Gharika i would actually prefer prepping up the Thar because that will be only a cosmetic setup and not a mechanical change...
Sorry Navpreet if it got interpreted that way, but I was referring to the dream that Maruti makes it so and I have no intention of going out on a "jugaad "
If Maruti works out a 80+bhp and 180+Nm engine for Gypsy, all the other pieces are already in place. Just a dream though.
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Old 28th January 2011, 22:55   #737
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Sorry Navpreet if it got interpreted that way, but I was referring to the dream that Maruti makes it so and I have no intention of going out on a "jugaad "
If Maruti works out a 80+bhp and 180+Nm engine for Gypsy, all the other pieces are already in place. Just a dream though.
You're very much spot on for that!

Gypsy and Jeep have forever been childhood dreams for everyone.
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Old 28th January 2011, 23:27   #738
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Its not about gold mines.If you read correctly i said 1 lakh for the hard top with the kind of quality that that Mr. Nanda speaks of.It cannot be compared with the gypsy top.This has double walls.a head liner and better glass etc.Same as IIRC that of the italian thar.
Have you seen that h/t in-person? We all assumed that Thar will have decent interiors and features (creature-comfort), but it turned out to be below expectations. what if same occurs with the h/t?
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Originally Posted by SubuS View Post
We must all remember 1 lakh is a number that we randomly pulled out off thin air, just like folks who say Thar crde with a 600bhp 1200Nm engine should be sold for 5 lakhs only.

Its all about supply and demand. If you think you can't afford current M&M customization price, wait for sometime and hope the price will come down / you will get a thar factory ht fitment. Or find a person who will get this done for 1 lakh - I remember seeing someone propose a dismantle'able ht for 1L in this thread itself.
It's not just about "if one can afford or not", it's about reliability aspect. Also, I said this in another post of mine before ... what is the USP of Thar if we end up customizing every aspect of it (except the mechanicals) to make it comfortable enough to be used like a daily drive. Anyways, let's wait to see if someone actually get the h/t done from mm customization and what it looks like. For that matter, let anyone post the ownership review for the Indian version of Thar.
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Old 28th January 2011, 23:46   #739
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Well Somubj if you cannot understand correctly what i wrote here it is again.My post means i'll pay up somehting like that money for somehting like that quality.If its below quality then i won't pay that much money.

Also have you seen the costs of hard tops some of the members here have paid for making it locally? 70 thousand! So if i get a better one made from the company.with 6 month warranty i'll be more than happy to pay up.
Desi jugaad is a jugaad and a company made one is a company made one however much you downplay the company.

Moreover you're talking about creature comforts?what are you benchmarking it against?Now don't start benchmarking it with swift and nano!
bolero is a benchmark but the bolero with the same engine is more expensive and it doesn't have 4X4 either.

About you getting it customised from Mahindra customization.what do you want.The HT won't affect the warranty as long as it does not meddle with the mechanical aspect of the Jeep.Period.

Now your second point about the USP.whats the USP of the THAR?why don't you look at the Bolero for your daily drive.Its USP is that its a 4X4 JEEP! thats its USP.

I have wanted to own a jeep but just did not want to settle for the Jugaads available all over the country.Now i have an option of buying one from the showroom and sprucing it up myself.Now thats its USP.
I want to get the kicks from modifying it and make it one of its kind.Now thats USP.how many others can boast of that!

Its USP is not a daily driver.You want to make it one then be ready to shell out more.

You are not buying a Jeep from chrysler and Paying that kind of money.Period!

You are paying all of 6 lakhs ex showroom and getting a good offroader which will get you past a lot of things.

Show me one more brand new diesel jeep in the whole word at this price point which can do this stuff?

You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.

Oh man! you guys really need to figure out what you are buying!

You want the USP of a 6 lakh Offroader JEEP to be its creature comforts.
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Old 28th January 2011, 23:55   #740
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Well Somubj if you cannot understand correctly what i wrote here it is again.My post means i'll pay up somehting like that money for somehting like that quality.If its below quality then i won't pay that much money.

Also have you seen the costs of hard tops some of the members here have paid for making it locally? 70 thousand! So if i get a better one made from the company.with 6 month warranty i'll be more than happy to pay up.
Desi jugaad is a jugaad and a company made one is a company made one however much you downplay the company.

Moreover you're talking about creature comforts?what are you benchmarking it against?Now don't start benchmarking it with swift and nano!
bolero is a benchmark but the bolero with the same engine is more expensive and it doesn't have 4X4 either.

About you getting it customised from Mahindra customization.what do you want.The HT won't affect the warranty as long as it does not meddle with the mechanical aspect of the Jeep.Period.

Now your second point about the USP.whats the USP of the THAR?why don't you look at the Bolero for your daily drive.Its USP is that its a 4X4 JEEP! thats its USP.

I have wanted to own a jeep but just did not want to settle for the Jugaads available all over the country.Now i have an option of buying one from the showroom and sprucing it up myself.Now thats its USP.
I want to get the kicks from modifying it and make it one of its kind.Now thats USP.how many others can boast of that!

Its USP is not a daily driver.You want to make it one then be ready to shell out more.

You are not buying a Jeep from chrysler and Paying that kind of money.Period!

You are paying all of 6 lakhs ex showroom and getting a good offroader which will get you past a lot of things.

Show me one more brand new diesel jeep in the whole word at this price point which can do this stuff?

You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.

Oh man! you guys really need to figure out what you are buying!

You want the USP of a 6 lakh Offroader JEEP to be its creature comforts.

All your points boil down to one simple thing.

A Thar is a good Jeep, capable enough to take you on that Long distant drive to the OTR Spot. And Thats it.

Hard core Off-roading.

And that price. Naah.....!

I saw the actual THAR today, Its priced a lac more than what it should be. You can get a 2005 4x4 Scorpio at half the price of the THAR. Spend another lac/ 2 lacs to spruce it up, you will still be left with More Money to Buy a Nano for your Better half

This was my personal deduction, so dont flame me for this factual logic.

For me its "Not convincing"
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Old 29th January 2011, 00:21   #741
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
I saw the actual THAR today, Its priced a lac more than what it should be. You can get a 2005 4x4 Scorpio at half the price of the THAR. Spend another lac/ 2 lacs to spruce it up, you will still be left with More Money to Buy a Nano for your Better half

This was my personal deduction, so dont flame me for this factual logic.

For me its "Not convincing"
So I would assume 3 Lakhs right or is it 3.5 Lakhs?

BTW how much will a 2005 4x4 Safari Cost ?

Cheers
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Old 29th January 2011, 00:53   #742
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post

I saw the actual THAR today, Its priced a lac more than what it should be. You can get a 2005 4x4 Scorpio at half the price of the THAR. This was my personal deduction, so dont flame me for this factual logic.

For me its "Not convincing"
Sirjee Where do you get theese prices from A 2005 4x4 Scorpio for 3 lakhs . please pass the info onwards and i will get bulk orders rolling in, I hope these prices arent quoted from Scorpio in Wonderland.com (pun Intended)

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
So I would assume 3 Lakhs right or is it 3.5 Lakhs?

BTW how much will a 2005 4x4 Safari Cost ?

Cheers
Going by the prices of a scorpio quoted Above by the gentleman the Safari as per the market trends should be 2 lakhs

I believe the thar has its fair share of issues, but Then which car in the indian market doesnt! I agree it should have come with An A/c and HT. I feel had Mahindra looked into this aspect they would have definately got additional customers. I hope They do something about this.
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Old 29th January 2011, 01:40   #743
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Well Somubj if you cannot understand correctly what i wrote here it is again.My post means i'll pay up somehting like that money for somehting like that quality.If its below quality then i won't pay that much money.

Also have you seen the costs of hard tops some of the members here have paid for making it locally? 70 thousand! So if i get a better one made from the company.with 6 month warranty i'll be more than happy to pay up.
Desi jugaad is a jugaad and a company made one is a company made one however much you downplay the company.

Moreover you're talking about creature comforts?what are you benchmarking it against?Now don't start benchmarking it with swift and nano!
bolero is a benchmark but the bolero with the same engine is more expensive and it doesn't have 4X4 either.

About you getting it customised from Mahindra customization.what do you want.The HT won't affect the warranty as long as it does not meddle with the mechanical aspect of the Jeep.Period.

Now your second point about the USP.whats the USP of the THAR?why don't you look at the Bolero for your daily drive.Its USP is that its a 4X4 JEEP! thats its USP.

I have wanted to own a jeep but just did not want to settle for the Jugaads available all over the country.Now i have an option of buying one from the showroom and sprucing it up myself.Now thats its USP.
I want to get the kicks from modifying it and make it one of its kind.Now thats USP.how many others can boast of that!

Its USP is not a daily driver.You want to make it one then be ready to shell out more.

You are not buying a Jeep from chrysler and Paying that kind of money.Period!

You are paying all of 6 lakhs ex showroom and getting a good offroader which will get you past a lot of things.

Show me one more brand new diesel jeep in the whole word at this price point which can do this stuff?

You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.

Oh man! you guys really need to figure out what you are buying!

You want the USP of a 6 lakh Offroader JEEP to be its creature comforts.

I fully agree with you buddy. about wanting a lot for a lot less. Show me another as affordable n modern 4x4 in our market which can also become a decent daily drive/highway cruiser albeit with some mods(HT) n I will go for it, i think there is none.Frankly speaking the off road/4x4 bug has been pricking me since long but the lack of a readily available n financially suitable vehicle always stopped me from joining the party. THAR GIVES THAT CHANCE TO ME. Thanks BD for bringing THAR, a lot of people like me will surely go for it.
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Old 29th January 2011, 05:32   #744
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Well Somubj if you cannot understand correctly what i wrote here it is again.My post means i'll pay up somehting like that money for somehting like that quality.If its below quality then i won't pay that much money.
Agreed, this is what i was wondering.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Also have you seen the costs of hard tops some of the members here have paid for making it locally? 70 thousand! So if i get a better one made from the company.with 6 month warranty i'll be more than happy to pay up.
Desi jugaad is a jugaad and a company made one is a company made one however much you downplay the company.
Someone even mentioned that the cost difference between hard top and soft top gypsy is some 30k tops. I will not comment on the difference in quality because i have not seen Thar h/t yet.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Moreover you're talking about creature comforts?what are you benchmarking it against?Now don't start benchmarking it with swift and nano!
bolero is a benchmark but the bolero with the same engine is more expensive and it doesn't have 4X4 either.
I am benchmarking it against it's price tag. Why should i compare it with bolero? It's a different breed all together.


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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
About you getting it customised from Mahindra customization.what do you want.The HT won't affect the warranty as long as it does not meddle with the mechanical aspect of the Jeep.Period.
Agreed, my point was different ... how good will the h/t be in terms of fit and finish when the core product is lacking some.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Now your second point about the USP.whats the USP of the THAR?why don't you look at the Bolero for your daily drive.Its USP is that its a 4X4 JEEP! thats its USP.
Well, yes..and what else? 4x4 does not qualify it as a lifestyle vehicle, or does it?

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
I have wanted to own a jeep but just did not want to settle for the Jugaads available all over the country.Now i have an option of buying one from the showroom and sprucing it up myself.Now thats its USP.
There is no end to spending money on customizations, my point was that basic things that should be a part of an off-road vehicle are missing form the stock machine, forget about lifestyle stuff.

Also, a refurbished jeep is not a Jugaad, i think you are confusing yourself with the actual jugaad's aka home made vehicles.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
I want to get the kicks from modifying it and make it one of its kind.Now thats USP.how many others can boast of that!
This is not USP of the machine, this is buyer preference/orientation.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Its USP is not a daily driver.You want to make it one then be ready to shell out more.
Then why in all threads on TBHP are mm folks claiming that it is a great daily drive? Again, there is no end to spending money, but why should a buyer always be on the receiving end?

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You are not buying a Jeep from chrysler and Paying that kind of money.Period!
Not sure where this one came from? Still, one look at a Chrysler and you will understand why their products demand more price.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You are paying all of 6 lakhs ex showroom and getting a good offroader which will get you past a lot of things.
I never denied this, did I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Show me one more brand new diesel jeep in the whole word at this price point which can do this stuff?
Again, it is expensive as a package of good mechanicals and below par everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.
I have never owned a jeep (drove a CJ and a commander 6 years back), BUT i sold my lancer to raise funds for Thar, and i am not happy after looking at the final product, i wanted a lifestyle vehicle. Don't give me an a/c but at-least give me the finesse of a polished product.


Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Oh man! you guys really need to figure out what you are buying!
I had enough chances to buy a refurbished jeep, but i wanted one with no hassles, period! So i almost knew what i was looking for.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You want the USP of a 6 lakh Offroader JEEP to be its creature comforts.
Yes, because i was sold on Thar being a lifestyle vehicle and not only an off roader.

PS: please don't suggest me to buy a sedan, i am pretty much fed up with them.

Also, even after reading the review, i had planned to buy Thar, but a bare bone jeep for this price was a surprise. I am still a potential buyer, but convincing folks back at home to let me spend this money has become equally difficult.
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Old 29th January 2011, 10:27   #745
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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What kind of quality are you talking about?
I have high(low?)lighted the quality from the pictures of the testdrive itself. The driver's seat sits on an L-angle or square pipe welded in place? What can be more jugaad than that? Could have tolerated another toolbox like under the co-driver's seat.

Sharp edges to the metal and the plastic (which you say Mahindra might take care to cover them up in two months). "Please suffer a few bruises and cuts, so you can call yourself a man", Mahindra seems to say.

In so many decades of the MM540 in all its iterations, they still couldn't find an easier way to unlock a door. Or is it finger-yogasana that they are teaching us?

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.
You can buy an ex-army for about 1.5L and set it up in first class condition with AC, power steering, proper roll bar, premium soft top, a winch and larger tyres in about 2.5L. That's a top value of about 4L. Even with all new spares, I don't see the budget increase by another lakh. So take it, at 5L, we have an ultra reliable off-roader, with a very good life-style outlook as well.
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Old 29th January 2011, 11:27   #746
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

I think that if we take the Thar as a pure 4x4 off roader, in its elements in plantations and tea gardens, primarily in competition with rebuilt army jeeps (which are just not available to us civilians) then it makes sense.

All of us agree that its mechanicals are good. What is lacking is the refinements. So designate it as a utility vehicle and not a "Life Style" vehicle.

All that it needs is loads and loads of cosmetic (not structural) changes starting from seats and interiors, to AC, Hard Top and other accessories. If M&M does not (or prices it self out of the market), there will be other reputed agencies who will do it, of course if there is sufficient demand.

This reminds me of time thirty or forty years back, when a well healed buyer would take his brand new Ambassador or Fiat and get it upgraded with bucket seats, plush furnishing, AC & Heater, horns and you name it. (At later stages even get the chassis welded at weak spots!).
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Old 30th January 2011, 12:24   #747
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

The pictures posted by discoverwild make the interiors look DANGEROUS. Mahindra couldn't give us fit and finish, but the least they could do is make the interiors safe!

To sum up the Mahindra Thar, one could say that it has an engine like Salman Khan, macho looks like Sanjay Dutt and DANGEROUS and CRUDE interiors like Dolly Bindra.

Thank you for ruining a great Jeep and that too after having made us wait for so long Mahindra. As customers who have repeatedly bought your products over the years, we feel so very obliged.
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Old 30th January 2011, 16:15   #748
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

Firstly, to Mr Khan and Mr Tejas :

An exceptionally well written review. Most importantly, an unbiased review keeping in mind all the associated functionalities which may be required by any customer/target group.

to Mr Behram, Mr Spike and any other member of the technical team here on T-bhp:
A job well done. Thank you for bringing a brilliant power train to the market with excellent road handling. I don't know much about offroading and based on what I have read, The debates shall continue but credit is due where it's due.


Now, my thoughts and they will most likely will echo most voiced here on this forum.

1. As a potential customer, I am appalled at the interiors, fit and finish. ( I think the point has been substantiated enough already)

2. Again, as a potential customer, I do not have to worry about what Mahindra's problems are, what their product strategy is and neither do I want to know. I shall want value for money i.e. OTR cost because that is the amount I am paying for the product.

3. I think I have read on the forum somewhere that this product is here in India because of Mr Behram and his efforts.
If that is true, hats off to you and a heartfelt thank you.

It must have been hell of a task to get the management to agree on selling a product for nearly half its cost. (SA Thar begins at R 169 900, converted into INR, its 10,87,809.03 INR, compared to 6L Ex-showroom)
I am not saying that it would cost Mahindra the same for selling the vehicle in different countries. Needless to say, different associated overheads

4. I think Mahindra has tried to cast a wide net in order to see who bites. As time passes, things such as exact market size and volumes would become quantifiable and thus the real product cycle would then begin. Also, product strategy would evolve based on the sales volume as well.

5. Mahindra can do this and still have time on their hands to rectify their mistake; because there is no real competition in the same segment.
i.e.
a. Gypsy is a good 4x4 vehicle, but its petrol and the step motherly treatment from Maruti doesn't indicate at anything changing soon.
b. Gurkha does have AC and HT but finding its price alone is a challenge, leave alone buying one. Can someone enlighten me on the same?

p.s. I think this would be my first official post here, I have read all the rules and everything else and yet, somehow I feel nervous. Mods, Please do take the appropriate action but then you dont need me to tell you that
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Old 30th January 2011, 16:55   #749
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post

You guys can spend about 4 lakhs on making an army junk into a jeep and then keep pouring money in it every month to keep it in working condition and live with the constant fear of unreliability but you'll cry hoarse when you're not offered a AC.

Oh man! you guys really need to figure out what you are buying!

You want the USP of a 6 lakh Offroader JEEP to be its creature comforts.
Well said. I dont see the constant point of bickering either. And you did make a very good point. People need to figure out WHAT they are buying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
All your points boil down to one simple thing.

A Thar is a good Jeep, capable enough to take you on that Long distant drive to the OTR Spot. And Thats it.

Hard core Off-roading.

And that price. Naah.....!


I saw the actual THAR today, Its priced a lac more than what it should be. You can get a 2005 4x4 Scorpio at half the price of the THAR. Spend another lac/ 2 lacs to spruce it up, you will still be left with More Money to Buy a Nano for your Better half

This was my personal deduction, so dont flame me for this factual logic.

For me its "Not convincing"
You can keep telling yourself the same a million times, but that does not change the fact that what you say is claptrap. And a 4x4 Scorpio can NEVER do things a THAR can offroad. So let us not even go there.

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I fully agree with you buddy. about wanting a lot for a lot less. Show me another as affordable n modern 4x4 in our market which can also become a decent daily drive/highway cruiser albeit with some mods(HT) n I will go for it, i think there is none.Frankly speaking the off road/4x4 bug has been pricking me since long but the lack of a readily available n financially suitable vehicle always stopped me from joining the party. THAR GIVES THAT CHANCE TO ME. Thanks BD for bringing THAR, a lot of people like me will surely go for it.
Brilliant. She is a fantastically comfortable highway cruiser!!

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Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
I have high(low?)lighted the quality from the pictures of the testdrive itself. The driver's seat sits on an L-angle or square pipe welded in place? What can be more jugaad than that? Could have tolerated another toolbox like under the co-driver's seat.

Sharp edges to the metal and the plastic (which you say Mahindra might take care to cover them up in two months). "Please suffer a few bruises and cuts, so you can call yourself a man", Mahindra seems to say.
Boss, We have been using the Thar for more than a year now and have never had any of your Cuts and Bruises. There is a logical limit of exaggeration.

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Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
You can buy an ex-army for about 1.5L and set it up in first class condition with AC, power steering, proper roll bar, premium soft top, a winch and larger tyres in about 2.5L. That's a top value of about 4L. Even with all new spares, I don't see the budget increase by another lakh. So take it, at 5L, we have an ultra reliable off-roader, with a very good life-style outlook as well.
Ultra Reliable!! Bahahaaa!!! YEs Sure!! Those will always work fine wont they!!

Please dont logically tell me that those power steering units which stick out like sore thumbs in front of your grille are actually going to work fine without ever breaking down. No way in hell it can be as reliable as a factory fit.

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Originally Posted by Thar View Post
The pictures posted by discoverwild make the interiors look DANGEROUS. Mahindra couldn't give us fit and finish, but the least they could do is make the interiors safe!

Thank you for ruining a great Jeep and that too after having made us wait for so long Mahindra. As customers who have repeatedly bought your products over the years, we feel so very obliged.
You have said the same thing in the past. ANd now you are repeating what you said. Why?? No one is asking you to buy the Thar if you dont want it. You are NOT obliging Mahindra by buying it. Just because someone was kind enough to take the forum and you lot into the fold and share the details of an ongoing project, doesnt mean they made you wait. How long did India wait for the Nano??? Please count.

And now there is this new thing about the interiors being unsafe. We have been using it for more than a year now and have never had cuts and bruises. I dont know where you get your misconceptions.
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Old 30th January 2011, 17:12   #750
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
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You have said the same thing in the past. ANd now you are repeating what you said. Why?? No one is asking you to buy the Thar if you dont want it. You are NOT obliging Mahindra by buying it. Just because someone was kind enough to take the forum and you lot into the fold and share the details of an ongoing project, doesnt mean they made you wait. How long did India wait for the Nano??? Please count.

And now there is this new thing about the interiors being unsafe. We have been using it for more than a year now and have never had cuts and bruises. I dont know where you get your misconceptions.
As far as I can recall, no details of the Thar project was shared with Team-BHP members. Yes, the inputs from forum members were sought.

There is a picture put up by the reviewers showing a personal injury caused by the rear seat bottom springs. So it is not entirely a misconception. And as far as the channels holidng the seat mechanism are concerned, it is quite logical to put some plastic covers on either ends. Should cost about Rs. 5 each.
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