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Old 17th August 2010, 22:47   #256
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I knew I would draw some flak from ANHC lovers and I did. But come on guys this time Honda is up against VW ( world's 2nd or 3rd largest car maker and German ) --- not against some little known Chinese brand. Honda may be good but then VW is no less formidable in quality.

I am a Honda fan too but not City fan. In fact Civic is the only car form Honda stable (in India) which I like. And I often wonder why people buy ANHC? Why not add a lakh or two and go in for a Civic which is leagues ahead of ANHC in all aspects.

And as for Vento vs. ANHC vs. Linea., it is Linea which looks aaawesome, in my opinion. Much better than both ANHC and Vento. If only Linea had more power to complement its looks. Both Vento and ANHC nearly tie up in looks deprtment, with Vento looking a little better. But both ANHC and Vento have very bland behind. This is where Linea scores. Its posterior is best in C segment. I thinks it is important for a car to have a better behind than a better front, because most often we see a car going than coming.
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Old 17th August 2010, 22:51   #257
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good review, and what great pricing, for a German car with such great quality, what needs to be seen is the long term ownership report. and i guess the warranty should be 3 yrs unlimited warranty and this can be a great option. what so ever as it shall bring a lot of peace of mind for its customers.
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Old 17th August 2010, 23:07   #258
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[quote=monkey_wrench;2031249]Oh yeah! Well the computer analogy was Apple - non-apple. Apple has always stuck it's nose in the air and shown two fingers to the competition. IMO, when it comes to build quality--nothing beats apple. In the car analogy (in the same segment), nothing beats the Honda.

Undoubtedly Honda is nice car package but to say ' nothing beats the Honda' clearly reeks of pollyannish illusion.We can say that Honda is a brilliant city car and leave at that. There cannot be much difference in build quality of VW and Honda.Additionally,Honda is not good for traversing highways,pot-holed roads which usually one faces outside metros( even in metros during and after monsoon). This is because of its low ground clearance and lack of engine guard.There are other cars which have far better suspension and ride.That alone can't make them superior or Honda inferior. Each car have their positives and negatives. We as cosummate consumer, must welcome competetion instead of deriding other models or engaging in zero sum game of upmanship by praising one particular model. I think only love in inter-personal domain is blind and not love for one particular model.

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Old 17th August 2010, 23:15   #259
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
I knew I would draw some flak from ANHC lovers and I did. But come on guys this time Honda is up against VW ( world's 2nd or 3rd largest car maker and German ) --- not against some little known Chinese brand. Honda may be good but then VW is no less formidable in quality. .
Do you mind sharing which Chinese player was Honda up against in the past? As far as I am aware Suzuki SX4 (Jap), Fiat Linea (Italian), Verna (Korean), Aveo (American), Fiesta (American).... where did chinese player come into the equation. Its not for the first time Honda or Toyota are against VW, perhaps in Indian market, but Accord, Civic, Jazz hold their own in States against Jetta, Polo and Passat.

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I am a Honda fan too but not City fan. In fact Civic is the only car form Honda stable (in India) which I like. And I often wonder why people buy ANHC? Why not add a lakh or two and go in for a Civic which is leagues ahead of ANHC in all aspects..
Its ok not to like a Honda City, we all have our inclinations. As far as buying Civic vs City argument is concerned, here are my 2 cents. The price difference between City and Civic is not 1 lakhs. Civic E is discontinued (9.99 ex-showroom) and the cheapest Civic now days goes around 13 lakhs on-road thanks to the road taxes of cars above 10 lakhs. In 13 lakhs you get an S-model with manual transmission. The interiors are good compared to ANHC, engines given power to weight and Indian driving conditions are pretty similar, ANHC might even have the upper hand on Civic in Engine dept due to it being more frugal. Honda City V-MT with discounts 9.6 lakhs on road. So in 3.5 lakhs in Civic you get better interiors than City and little bit more space. Many ppl cant justify this investment. You also have to factor in the parking spaces in India and the roads. Some ppl prefer City over Civic due to this as well. City depreciates less than Civic and has a lower cost of running.

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And as for Vento vs. ANHC vs. Linea., it is Linea which looks aaawesome, in my opinion. Much better than both ANHC and Vento. If only Linea had more power to complement its looks. Both Vento and ANHC nearly tie up in looks deprtment, with Vento looking a little better. But both ANHC and Vento have very bland behind. This is where Linea scores. Its posterior is best in C segment. I thinks it is important for a car to have a better behind than a better front, because most often we see a car going than coming.
I understand you are a Fiat fan. And its totally ok, Linea is by far the best looking car in this segment. It looks big, but once seated inside where does the space go? The engine noise? The subpar fit and finish and hopelessly detuned engines with a car of its kerb weight.... Lets not even discuss A.S.S. You dont get peace of mind when buying Linea that you do when you buy a Honda. When you claim Vento looks better than City, when most likely you havent seen the car in flesh and GTO himself claims that the car is bland and understated, it shows subjectivity.

Coming back to Vento, if VW can manage the waiting list and keep spares low, expect the Vento D to dig into City's sales.

Last edited by aseem : 17th August 2010 at 23:25.
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Old 17th August 2010, 23:56   #260
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Aseem, where did I say that Honda is or was up against some Chinese brand? I said "as though Honda were up against some Chinese brand." Read my post again. What I meant was if Honda is a piece of mind, then so is VW. VW is not less than Honda in any way. Period. And VW is 2nd or 3rd largest car maker whereas Honda is probably 7th or 8th. The way you are defending ANHC, I wonder if deep down you are regretting buying an ANHC and are now trying to justify it by all means.

And no I am not a Fiat fan at all. I am not diehard fan of any brand. I pay them money and they give me a car. As simple as that. And unlike most, I care two hoots about a brand, any brand. I won't mind buying a Chinese car named LUNG-FUNG if they give me what I look for in a car. I drive a Lancer and am planning to upgrade to Magnum/Cruze depending on my finances. Because it has to be a diesel, for me, and it has to be a rocket, for me. Nothing less will do. I am not a boy racer but I don't want to buy sedans which get beaten by hatches. And I drive at saner speeds but feel happy to know that the powerplant under the hood can propel the car to my delight, should the need arise. Honda is a big no no for me because they do not have a diesel. The day Honda makes a good diesel ( it has to be a rocket, like cruze,for me and not like an Altis ) I will definitely buy it if they price it right. But even if I buy a Honda, I will not go gaga over it, like some guys do. And I will never call it a peace of mind or some other adjective like you do. You can say Honda is the best and leave it there. No need to add these adjectives. You mean as though Linea, verna, Fiesta buyers have no peace of mind. And they do not sleep at nights. Come on, it is your perception and nothing else. These days all cars have more or less same quality, fit-finish and performance.

Last edited by pgsagar : 17th August 2010 at 23:59.
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Old 18th August 2010, 00:00   #261
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I got a tweet from Renuka Kirpalani, Editor of Autocar about the Vento, thought it will be good to share it here -

"Vento petrol is noisy and does feel underpowered. For vento the diesel is better choice".
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Old 18th August 2010, 00:18   #262
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Aseem, where did I say that Honda is or was up against some Chinese brand? I said "as though Honda were up against some Chinese brand." Read my post again. What I meant was if Honda is a piece of mind, then so is VW. VW is not less than Honda in any way. Period. And VW is 2nd or 3rd largest car maker whereas Honda is probably 7th or 8th. The way you are defending ANHC, I wonder if deep down you are regretting buying an ANHC and are now trying to justify it by all means.

And no I am not a Fiat fan at all. I am not diehard fan of any brand. I pay them money and they give me a car. As simple as that. And unlike most, I care two hoots about a brand, any brand. I won't mind buying a Chinese car named LUNG-FUNG if they give me what I look for in a car. I drive a Lancer and am planning to upgrade to Magnum/Cruze depending on my finances. Because it has to be a diesel, for me, and it has to be a rocket, for me. Nothing less will do. I am not a boy racer but I don't want to buy sedans which get beaten by hatches. And I drive at saner speeds but feel happy to know that the powerplant under the hood can propel the car to my delight, should the need arise. Honda is a big no no for me because they do not have a diesel. The day Honda makes a good diesel ( it has to be a rocket, like cruze,for me and not like an Altis ) I will definitely buy it if they price it right. But even if I buy a Honda, I will not go gaga over it, like some guys do. And I will never call it a peace of mind or some other adjective like you do. You can say Honda is the best and leave it there. No need to add these adjectives. You mean as though Linea, verna, Fiesta buyers have no peace of mind. And they do not sleep at nights. Come on, it is your perception and nothing else. These days all cars have more or less same quality, fit-finish and performance.
I hit the wrong nerve. Firstly when you state Honda is competing against VW and not against any Chinese brand, you belittle the other offerings out there in the market that Honda is succesfully competing and beating in its own right. So no need to draw analogies that are that far fetched. Honda has held its own against cars from worlds largest manfacturers (Toyota) and Chevrolet both of which have higher presence in India in terms of dealership and A.S.S. So its not like VW all of a sudden becomes more premium. Its not like they are selling Bugati or Audi for pete's sake, its a Polo with a boot.

Second, Honda is the 6th largest manfacturer in the world with higher revenue and operating profit than VW.

I am not a Honda owner. And no I dont need to justify my purchase decision. If given a choice in the segment, I would definitely consider Honda and Vento Diesel as my running is around 2000km a month. Having said that, I would still give Honda a wee bit of thought for the following personal critierias:

1) I dont like the elevated footwell design in Vento in the rear seats. Reminds me of Indica of the old days.

2) I dont like the steering of Vento

3) Music quality of Vento is subpar. I dont want to spend another 50k upgrading the OE unit

4) I dont like the dark brown interiors. I prefer black.

5) A.S.S from VW and spare parts cost is a big question mark for anyone spending a million rupees

6) Honda City will have a higher residual value based on history

7) City has more road presence and internal/boot space

8) It has an AT

It the choice is between the manuals, I might go for the Vento D, when you bring AT into the picture, ANHC becomes an intersting proposition. BTW I am not even considering Vento P as needless to say it cant light a candle against what City has to offer even with higher prices.
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Old 18th August 2010, 00:24   #263
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3 Questions for anyone connected to people at VW:
  • Any reasons on why the comfortline model was not introduced?
  • Do you have any indication if the comfortline model will be introduced?
  • If yes, is there a definitive timeline?
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Old 18th August 2010, 00:25   #264
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Aseem, you are right. VW is not like Bugatti or Audi. But then so is Honda. They are both on equal footing, more or less. Then why are we argueing? Anyway, good night!
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Old 18th August 2010, 00:44   #265
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3 Questions for anyone connected to people at VW:
  • Any reasons on why the comfortline model was not introduced?

I am no way connected to VW. However i feel they are waiting for the public's response for Vento (read sales, numbers) and see if it is affecting mainly Honda (they are targetting ANHC which is the segment leader) and other car manufacturers in that segment.

If the sales of other manufacturers (including Honda) are getting hit to a certain extent because of Vento and if they reduce prices on their cars or add new features at the existing price then VW's reply to that may be the comfortline variant. This is surely gonna take atleast 4 to 6 months.

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Old 18th August 2010, 00:57   #266
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Second, Honda is the 6th largest manfacturer in the world with higher revenue and operating profit than VW.
Not true. VW is a far larger company in terms of revenue. It is the 3rd largest manufacturer in the world. Don't know about profitability, but it is right up there with the leaders Toyota and was and currently is definitely more profitable than GM, Ford and Nissan, thanks in a large part due to profits from Audi.
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Old 18th August 2010, 06:53   #267
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Honda is the 6th largest manfacturer in the world with higher revenue and operating profit than VW.
Thats old hat.

VW is now miles ahead of Honda in revenue. Its even possible that VW will emerge as the biggest car manufacturer in the world over the next decade. And it managed all this with no regard for the US market which is even more impressive. That was one of the least publicised developments over the last three-four years.
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Old 18th August 2010, 08:25   #268
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Thats old hat.

VW is now miles ahead of Honda in revenue. Its even possible that VW will emerge as the biggest car manufacturer in the world over the next decade. And it managed all this with no regard for the US market which is even more impressive. That was one of the least publicised developments over the last three-four years.
Very true. In fact, it is VW's stated goal to be the number 1 manufacturer by 2018. If it does not happen organically, it will happen if VW ups its stake of Suzuki.

As for the US, VW has a goal to increase its sales from the currently low 300K's to around 800K by 2018. The new low cost Jetta (not a big fan of it) is part of its strategy. They may also introduce the Vento/Polo in the US.
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Old 18th August 2010, 09:08   #269
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Very true. In fact, it is VW's stated goal to be the number 1 manufacturer by 2018. If it does not happen organically, it will happen if VW ups its stake of Suzuki.

As for the US, VW has a goal to increase its sales from the currently low 300K's to around 800K by 2018. The new low cost Jetta (not a big fan of it) is part of its strategy. They may also introduce the Vento/Polo in the US.

Vert true indeed! In fact, if you consider only passenger car (and not CVs etc) VW is 2nd largest right behind Toyota and ahead of GM. The main reason for this is China - they have totally captured the Chinese market, which is by far the biggest market in the world and still growing fast. The nearest competitor for VW in China sales less than half of what VW does.

I will not be very surpised if VW overtakes Toyota as the No 1 car manufacturer in the world ( not including CVs etc) in the next 3-4 years
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Old 18th August 2010, 09:23   #270
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Jazz is a more mature product than Polo in terms of space, petrol engine, and overall product (Polo has better gearbox and driving dynamics). The same underpinnings are carried over to Polo based sedan. The diesel is a stonker but petrol leaves a lot to be desired. I rest my case. In the end consumer wins. I want VW to do well, but its just that Vento leaves few things to be desired.

Last edited by aseem : 18th August 2010 at 09:28.
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