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Old 8th November 2011, 19:44   #3406
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

^^ Sourav,
The vents of Polo/Vento is a known case.

FYI the post below
Quote:
Originally Posted by theragingbull View Post
Another case of cheap plastics in Polo. The air vent flaps in my Polo have broken. Just adjusting the air flow occasionally caused the flaps to fall one by one. All flaps of two air vents have broken down. Here are the pictures.
Attachment 543640
Attachment 543641
I went to the workshop today to get it fixed under warranty. They said that pictures of this will be sent to VW and their reply will be told to me by today evening.
Also long back I remember reading one of the ownership threads of Polo, where this issue was being discussed a lot - quite a few polo owners had commented on to the thread owner's post when he put up this issue (in his polo)- apparently there was a workaround solution too by applying some kind of oil to the vents to prevent the stalks from breaking. Don't remember which thread it was.

2.5/3k for each vent is huge. For what reason isn't it under warranty? Can the service guys provide this in writing?

Last edited by ninjatalli : 8th November 2011 at 19:46.
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Old 8th November 2011, 20:23   #3407
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

When I was taking the delivery of my car the Sales Advisor told me that First Service is at 15000 Kms, and a general checkup type thing at 7500 Kms. I had not heard this General Checkup thing as most have said that the first service is at 15000 Kms. Now I am guessing it is because they would want to top up engine oil. Nevertheless I guess a good initiative by the dealer to call people for general checkup on their own..
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Old 8th November 2011, 20:52   #3408
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Could not help but comment on a few thing above:

Oil Consumption

This is natural to any engine. Some engines have higher consumption and that may be because of improper machining of cylinder bore, incorrect ring design, certain dimensions out of spec. However the major cause behind high oil consumption is use of low tension rings. That helps in friction reduction & thereby improve FE but at the expense of oil consumption. So it is a fair compromise.

MJD vs TDi
Let me share an unbiased view. The Germans are best in Diesels and TDi is nothing less. The MJd from fiat is also exceptionally good.
As for the Swift with its 1.3L MJD the major problem is turbolag. But then you have a strong midrange and a reasonable top end. Truth be told the 3 cylinder 1.2L Polo TDi is simply rubbish. It has a turbolag so huge that it takes eternity to reach the turbo zone. Then comes the refinement which is horrible. Even the vibrations are annoying.

Coming to the 1.6L TDi, which is definitely miles better than the 1.2, also has several areas of improvement. Like the refinement, the vibrations in clutch pedal, and then the oil consumption. These are rough edges that needs to be sorted out.
But lets get over the nitpicking and get to the point.

Turbolag - Cant really call it turbolag as it is as fast as a regular petrol in the bog zone. And this is the biggest advantage over the MJD.
Then it is not the power and torque figures that matter. The instantaneous acceleration available at the tip of your feet is awesome. Even the Verna with higher power ratings does not feel that eager to sprint.
I am not sure how the 1.6L MJD will perform but I think (looking at the power & torque figures) it will also have the lag as well.
The tuning (lag vs boost), the gear ratios in the TDi is awesome and I believe even the MJD 1.6 will have a tough tome matching it.

BOTTOMLINE -
The 1.6L TDi has no competitor in MJD department. So why bother.
The 1.3L MJD is far superior to the 1.2L TDi.

Last edited by oxyzen : 8th November 2011 at 20:54.
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Old 8th November 2011, 21:12   #3409
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Also long back I remember reading one of the ownership threads of Polo, where this issue was being discussed a lot - quite a few polo owners had commented on to the thread owner's post when he put up this issue (in his polo)- apparently there was a workaround solution too by applying some kind of oil to the vents to prevent the stalks from breaking. Don't remember which thread it was.
Update : fyi the thread link (VW Polo 1.6 - Ownership Report)

Quoting the post with the jugaad solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadnabrina View Post
All,
I had a bad experience with the A/C vents in my Polo recently. Thought of updating all Polo owners so that they can avoid unnecessary repair cost.
The problem -
The vertical louvers of the A/C vents are not made of strong plastic and easily break, typically at the fulcrum points.
The following illustration shows a typical louver while the red arrow indicates the pin that has a tendency to break.
Attachment 552632

The A/C louvers are lubricated at the time of manufacture with fine grade lubricant oil. With use and due to continuous A/C usage the lubricant dries up and makes the louvers tight to move. If you apply too much pressure trying to free the jammed up louver you will end up with a broken louver pin and the whole vent would need replacement. It is very expensive, more so in the Highline version which has chrome lined A/C vents. According to the SA the center A/C vent assembly costs upwards of Rs 7000/-.

The solution –
The solution is simple. Apply a good quality fine grade lubricant (standard machine oil used in sewing machines would serve the purpose) on all the fulcrum points of the A/C vent at a regular interval – I suggest a lubrication routine once every 2 months if you use you A/C always.

In my case I had all the vertical louver pins broken on both the right and left vent (the ones besides the door). When I heard about the cost, I thought of applying typical Indian “Jugad” method – which I picked up from one of the threads here from someone who had fixed his Palio vents this way – rebuild the damaged part using M-Seal. I rebuild all the broken pins using M-Seal, once dried; I filed them to shape using a set of jeweler’s file. Then applied a thin coat of Araldite over the rebuild pins. Once the Araldite dried up I fitted them back with a layer of white grease applied generously. Now the louvers move smoothly and as a matter of fact feels smoother than the original.

VW's stand -
VW is unwilling to replace the louvers under warranty - they claim that these are damaged by the user. But unfortunately do not mention the need for regular lubrication in the service manual.



There is a filter underneath the glove box. The filter material is exposed and you can feel it with your fingers.
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Old 8th November 2011, 21:51   #3410
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i own a linea too. the MJD engines are very very advanced engines and master piece of engineering. its leagues ahead of this TDI engine.
Why do you think MJD is more advanced? Multiple Injections per stroke?? Every new CRDI engine has this these days. MJD was a awesome engine when it came out, but now the game has moved forward with Engines which are more more eager to revv with much better spread of torque.

BTW i20 CRDi has the most refined and revv happy Diesel amongst hatchbacks, and if it had shorter gearing, it would have been at par in gear roll on acceleration too. Amongst the Sedans this side of 10L, Verna has the most refined engine.

The reason why 1.6 TDI sounds louder under the hood of Vento is cost cutting in sound damping(Still it is quieter than any MJD equipped car especially under load) . Go through International reviews of this engine fitted in various cars, you will hardly find anyone complaining. In terms of Driveability/Performance this engine definitely superior than any MJD equipped car sold here.

Last edited by .anshuman : 8th November 2011 at 21:54.
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Old 8th November 2011, 21:56   #3411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post

MJD vs TDi
Let me share an unbiased view. The Germans are best in Diesels and TDi is nothing less. The MJd from fiat is also exceptionally good.
As for the Swift with its 1.3L MJD the major problem is turbolag. But then you have a strong midrange and a reasonable top end. Truth be told the 3 cylinder 1.2L Polo TDi is simply rubbish. It has a turbolag so huge that it takes eternity to reach the turbo zone. Then comes the refinement which is horrible. Even the vibrations are annoying.

Coming to the 1.6L TDi, which is definitely miles better than the 1.2, also has several areas of improvement. Like the refinement, the vibrations in clutch pedal, and then the oil consumption. These are rough edges that needs to be sorted out.
But lets get over the nitpicking and get to the point.

Turbolag - Cant really call it turbolag as it is as fast as a regular petrol in the bog zone. And this is the biggest advantage over the MJD.
Then it is not the power and torque figures that matter. The instantaneous acceleration available at the tip of your feet is awesome. Even the Verna with higher power ratings does not feel that eager to sprint.
I am not sure how the 1.6L MJD will perform but I think (looking at the power & torque figures) it will also have the lag as well.
The tuning (lag vs boost), the gear ratios in the TDi is awesome and I believe even the MJD 1.6 will have a tough tome matching it.

BOTTOMLINE -
The 1.6L TDi has no competitor in MJD department. So why bother.
The 1.3L MJD is far superior to the 1.2L TDi.
if you compare apples to apples then 1.3 MJD as you say correctly is far superior to 1.2 TDI.

similarly in my earlier posts which got deleted and had vital engine details of both 1.6 TDI and 1.6MJD it was clear that MJD wont have any lag as well.

infact MJD delivers more torque than any TDI right at 1500 rpm.

this applies to both 1.6 lts as well as 2.0lts.

so 120bhp @4000 rpm and 300nm torque @1500 rpm which is better specs than out vento 1.6 Tdi will never have tough time to match 1.6 TDI.

same with 2.0 litres category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Why do you think MJD is more advanced? Multiple Injections per stroke?? Every new CRDI engine has this these days. MJD was a awesome engine when it came out, but now the game has moved forward with Engines which are more more eager to revv with much better spread of torque.

BTW i20 CRDi has the most refined and revv happy Diesel amongst hatchbacks, and if it had shorter gearing, it would have been at par in gear roll on acceleration too. Amongst the Sedans this side of 10L, Verna has the most refined engine.

The reason why 1.6 TDI sounds louder under the hood of Vento is cost cutting in sound damping(Still it is quieter than any MJD equipped car especially under load) . Go through International reviews of this engine fitted in various cars, you will hardly find anyone complaining. In terms of Driveability/Performance this engine definitely superior than any MJD equipped car sold here.
obviously there are multiple injections, but can you mention TDI engines with 8 injections per cycle?
revved much better - you are comparing just 1.3 mjd ? do some research about 1.6 MJD and you will know how it revvs and the torque produced across the range.

with bonnets open do check how a TDI and MJD engine sounds. dont bluntly blame it on damping. it is never quiter than any MJD, be it without load or be it with load. i will park both the cars with open bonnet and post the video with sound when i get my delivery of vento.

comparing the cars sold here, again you are being irrational in comparing 1.3 with 1.6.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 8th November 2011 at 22:04.
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Old 8th November 2011, 22:26   #3412
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
similarly in my earlier posts which got deleted and had vital engine details of both 1.6 TDI and 1.6MJD it was clear that MJD wont have any lag as well.
infact MJD delivers more torque than any TDI right at 1500 rpm.
Let me get a bit technical here.
High torque at low RPM sounds good. Cause it is.

But there is a catch. These power & torque figures are calculated in an engine dyno. Which means you run the engine at 1500 RPM at full load/throttle till a point where all the engine parameters becomes stable (like oil temperature, exhaust temp etc). This is done by applying load on the engine to balance out the load developed by the engine. So it means it is a steady state condition.

Actual condition is quite different. For Vento the engine might produce 250Nm at 1500 but it will take its sweet time to produce that. And by that time you have reached 1800 RPM or 2000. That's why the kick is felt at 1800-2000 range & not 1500 RPM.

So the size of turbo matter. Bigger turbo = more boost = more torque (may be even at low RPM). Hence producing more power & torque in a turbo-charged engine is easy. But it will have increased lag.

What I am trying to say an engine with 200Nm @ 1500 RPM may have less lag than an engine with 250Nm @ 1500.
It is only a test drive that can reveal the actual turbolag.

Last edited by oxyzen : 8th November 2011 at 22:27.
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Old 9th November 2011, 18:20   #3413
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Where do you think the Germans got the TDi technology from?

It was Fiat under whose sponsorship an independent company developed this "Injector based" technology. Fiat in turn sold the same to Bosch who in turn commercialized it by selling it to various car manufacturers Worldwide. Some call it TDi other call it Crdi or something other, based on the different variants of the same basic design.

Taken aback by the stupendous success of Bosch, Fiat has since not sold any of the new designs in the open market but adopted a royalty based approach prime example being the arrangement with Suzuki in India for the Multijet which has taken the injector based design to the next level.

While Multijet remains current Globally, Fiat R&D has moved on and their latest is called "Air Jet". It is rumoured to be under field testing in South America and could be introduced in Europe and South Africa sometimes in 2012 or early 2013 that is if the world survives 12.12.12.

Fiat was and remains on top of the competition as far as Black Gold based engine technology is concerned.




Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Could not help but comment on a few thing above:

MJD vs TDi
[/b][/u]Let me share an unbiased view. The Germans are best in Diesels and TDi is nothing less. The MJd from fiat is also exceptionally good.
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Old 9th November 2011, 18:43   #3414
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Taken aback by the stupendous success of Bosch, Fiat has since not sold any of the new designs in the open market but adopted a royalty based approach prime example being the arrangement with Suzuki in India for the Multijet which has taken the injector based design to the next level.

While Multijet remains current Globally, Fiat R&D has moved on and their latest is called "Air Jet". It is rumoured to be under field testing in South America and could be introduced in Europe and South Africa sometimes in 2012 or early 2013 that is if the world survives 12.12.12.

Fiat was and remains on top of the competition as far as Black Gold based engine technology is concerned.
Agree with you. TDi are indeed less refined than MJD. Be it the 1.2 or 1.6 from Germans, they are really not as refined as they should be. For that matter, even Hyundai diesel motors are more refined.

Fiat was hell bent on not selling tech., not even through royalty, but it was financial crunch which led them to see an opportunity and also that they were getting a car ( SX4 as Sedici ). Also the long standing relationship between GM and Fiat did play a role.

Fiat should learn a lesson though, never to sell technology to others. Whenever they have done this, they have suffered a loss. For the Indian market, Suzuki with Fiat engine literally punched competition. The entire common rail diesel tech is now for the world.

As Fiat became financially strong, they decided not to sell or offer their tech. to anybody and hence the Multiair tech. has not been available to anybody till date.

That said, I would like to say that the European make the best small diesel engines. Even though with a less state of tune, the way the engines perform in real world is good, be it TDI or CRDi. One has to experience how the 1.2 diesel in Polo can keep the Polo at seriously high speeds without much effort and the Fiat 1.3 needs no introduction.
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Old 9th November 2011, 19:34   #3415
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Folks , sorry to interrupt the MJD Vs TDi debate and veer ( it seems so , even though this is a Vento thread)

My first service update has been put up on my thread , includes a possible 'silent' move by VW towards replacing faulty door beads.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...completed.html

Thanks, now let's go back to the debate
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Old 9th November 2011, 20:04   #3416
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Hey guys just got the vin for my vento tdi breeze and it says that the date of production is 4.10.2011 which shows that it is not the old stock that they are trying to clear.
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Old 9th November 2011, 20:10   #3417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
^^ Sourav,
2.5/3k for each vent is huge. For what reason isn't it under warranty? Can the service guys provide this in writing?
Forgot to ask but i have duly sent an email to VW , hope they reply . Mine is repaired possibly with Araldite ! BTW , I think VW should gift a bottle of parachute coconut oil with every Vento or Polo instead of the coconut

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawabnabeel View Post
Hey guys just got the vin for my vento tdi breeze and it says that the date of production is 4.10.2011 which shows that it is not the old stock that they are trying to clear.
Congrats ! There is little chance of a Vento TDi being old stock . What colour is yours and whats the waiting period ?
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Old 9th November 2011, 20:15   #3418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Forgot to ask but i have duly sent an email to VW , hope they reply . Mine is repaired possibly with Araldite ! BTW , I think VW should gift a bottle of parachute coconut oil with every Vento or Polo instead of the coconut



Congrats ! There is little chance of a Vento TDi being old stock . What colour is yours and whats the waiting period ?
mine is a white color. i booked it on the 27th of oct. they will be sending the car for registration on 11th but i will be getting the delivery on 16th as they'll get the touch screen HU from the factory on the 15th and i have also asked the to paint the door handles and mirrors in white.
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Old 9th November 2011, 21:30   #3419
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawabnabeel View Post
mine is a white color. i booked it on the 27th of oct. they will be sending the car for registration on 11th but i will be getting the delivery on 16th as they'll get the touch screen HU from the factory on the 15th and i have also asked the to paint the door handles and mirrors in white.
Many congratulations, Nawab! Eagerly waiting to see your detailed ownership thread once you get the car.

Do post pics of the Touchscreen HU included in the Breeze package. How much was the Final OTR for you, btw?
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Old 10th November 2011, 09:32   #3420
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Hello Shantanu,
Today morning even I faced the same issue of the flashing glow plug while driving. Was the issue you faced rectified , how much time did they need, Did they tell what was the cause of the problem and finally did it cost you anything.

thanks in advance
Krishna Prasad

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilshantanu View Post
So the flashing of the glow plug (heater coil) is back again, and hence the Car is again going to the dealer tomorrow.

The attitude of the Service adviser is very good. He picks up my call in 2-3 rings, hears me out and come up with a solution right away. In this case arranging for the vehicle to be picked up. Since the vehicle is under warranty, no charges are being levied for the pick up / drop off.

Moreover when I got the vehicle the last time, they cleaned the seats etc complimentary, free of cost :-)

I just hope they are able to rectify this problem soon
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