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Old 9th February 2016, 22:07   #691
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Default Re: Low Mileage & Black Smoke issue with Fiat Punto 90 HP Diesel

I highly recommend a independent garage like Sri Raghvendra Motors, Hoodi. These guys are also known as Bosch. My colleague maintains his VW here, a car that is still under warranty, cause he finds their service standards better than the company. They are well equipped and have a capable service head to deal with complex issues.

I maintain my Fiat at KHT, Whitefield. While they have serviced the car well, I can't comment on their technical expertise as I've not run in to any problems to date. Hope it stays that way.

Before you do anything, I'd try what FM sandeepmdas has mentioned.

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Old 10th February 2016, 07:21   #692
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Thanks for the tips guys. Will definitely tell them to check the vacuum tubes today. As for the fuel quality I do refuel at many different bunks so I'm sure that angle can be ruled out. Also, I refuel once every week or 10 days max on average and its been 4 months at least with this issue.

Mod Note: Please avoid typing like... this...

Last edited by ampere : 10th February 2016 at 08:43.
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Old 15th February 2016, 16:59   #693
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to get the maximum Fuel Efficiency

The lead definitely helped in my case. I told the service centre guys to check the vacuum pipes in my car engine.

So FIAT sent a three and a half page check-list to the service centre for my car. And finally after 2 days of debugging they found the Turbo pipe to have cracked (photo attached.)

This meant that the feedback didn't reach the engine so more fuel was pulled in (so the low mileage), the emission gas was not recirculated well (so the black smoke and the check engine light ON) and the Turbo system overall was affected (so the reduced pick-up). The pipe is placed somewhere at the bottom of the front bumper and is subject to damage if the underneath of the bumper hits or scrapes something.

When I took the delivery of the car this weekend I re-discovered the power of the 90HP turbo engine of my car. In love with the awesome pick-up all over again!

The replacement pipe cost me 300 INR and left me wondering how much loss I incurred all these months when I drove the car at a reduced mileage and paid for cabs when the car used to lie at the service centre.
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ARTICLE: How to get the maximum Fuel Efficiency-img_20160215_064152.jpg  

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Old 7th March 2016, 15:24   #694
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to get the maximum Fuel Efficiency

Interesting article whether filling up early in the morning (when the weather is colder) really gives you more mileage or not: http://datagenetics.com/blog/april32015/index.html
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Old 1st June 2016, 10:46   #695
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to get the maximum Fuel Efficiency

Does getting the tank full of fuel has any impact on the FE? The fuel itself weighs a lot.
So half tank or 60-70% of capacity will have any impact on the FE?
Also the loss via evaporation of fuel will be higher in case of full tank.

Here is an article i was going through on web:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/word...or-half-empty/

let me know your thoughts!
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Old 1st June 2016, 11:11   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinrawatdun View Post
Does getting the tank full of fuel has any impact on the FE? The fuel itself weighs a lot.
So half tank or 60-70% of capacity will have any impact on the FE?
Also the loss via evaporation of fuel will be higher in case of full tank.

Here is an article i was going through on web:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/word...or-half-empty/

let me know your thoughts!

Most cars have closed fuel systems, so even though there is vaporization no fuel vapor escapes at all, unless in case of an overpressure. So i would say driving with half a tank is more fuel efficient as there is essentially less weight to carry around. But you would be hard pressed to find it / measure it in practical terms

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Old 13th April 2017, 21:18   #697
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Default Low mileage as the tires age

Esteemed BHPIANs,

I have a peculiar problem or may be my understanding is incorrect. Please help me out.

I own a Fiat GP 90 HP and itís a month short of completing 3 years with me. When I purchased the car it was 4 months after it manufacturing. I have used the OEM tires Apollo Accelares 195/60 since the beginning. I had planned for a change but liked the tires and continued with it. Even my spare tire is of the same size which was immediately changed after the purchase. I got a new alloy for the spare as well.

I align the tires every 5 K kms and balance, rotate (5 tire rotation) and align every 10 K kms. I get my car serviced at FASS and even alignment is done by them.

My car has now done 55 K kms and the tires look good for another 15-20 K if taken care of properly. I was anyway planning to change them @ 60 K kms irrespective of whether they have life left or not. At around 50 K kms I saw an issue where the left outer shoulder of the left rear tire had extreme uneven wear. No alignment issues were found and we exchanged the tire to see if it was a tire issue or something else. Rest all were checked as well and no issues found. Within 2K kms we saw the same uneven wear for that particular tire which we had changed. After discussing with FASS folks I was told that this is a known problem in very few cars and there is a small fix which should help. They made the required changes and it seems the problem is gone now.

I am looking forward to the tire change in a couple of monthsí time. My car is due for the 60 K service but what has kept me worried is that my car's mileage has reduced drastically. At least 2-3 kms/liter. Please note that I mostly use my car for long highway trips or weekend runabout. 70% of my usage is on highways or outer ring road (in HYD) where once can drive at a constant speed.

I have never seen such a drop in mileage except during punctures or low pressure. This would be 5th service and never had I had such issue. I have got the car checked and on visual inspection there seems to be nothing wrong. All the while the FASS folks were concentrating on my tire issue and even I was of the opinion that once the uneven wear issue is fixed rest all should fall in place.

Logically as the tires wear the mileage should increase however marginal it is. My current tires cannot be classified as really old as it wonít be more than 3.5 years old. It has been taken care of well and I really don't see a reason why mileage should fall so drastically.

I am afraid as soon as I put new tires the mileage is going to tank further down due to more friction and grip of new tires.

Has this got to do something with the 60 K service as itís a major service where all fluids, timing belt and host of other things would be changed? Can anyone help here?

P.S: I am not mileage seeking type and enjoy my drive a lot. My average over 55 K kms would be around 16 km/l. This being a diesel there would be many who would be extracting at least 30-40% better mileage figures. What I am getting currently is in range of 13 km/l. All these figures are based on tankful method. I never rely on instantaneous FE (MID) for mileage figures. They continue to remain same as per my driving style even now when the actual mileage has gone down. I usually use tankful method and fuel indicator in odometer to gauge the mileage.

Earlier it used to take 150 kms of mixed driving to consume 25% of fuel and now the same amount of oil is consumed in driving 100-120 kms.

Experts please help.
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Old 13th April 2017, 22:01   #698
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

Quote:
Originally Posted by nibedk View Post
At around 50 K kms I saw an issue where the left outer shoulder of the left rear tire had extreme uneven wear..
Isn't that indicating a suspension issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nibedk View Post
They made the required changes and it seems the problem is gone now..
What was done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nibedk View Post
Earlier it used to take 150 kms of mixed driving to consume 25% of fuel and now the same amount of oil is consumed in driving 100-120 kms.
Air pressures maintained and checked regularly?

Last edited by Aditya : 14th April 2017 at 07:43. Reason: Typo
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Old 13th April 2017, 22:43   #699
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

Quote:
Originally Posted by nibedk View Post
... but what has kept me worried is that my car's mileage has reduced drastically. At least 2-3 kms/liter.
Agree with Anurag here, that this tyre wear is possibly indicating a suspesion issue, and suggest you get that checked.

Regarding effect of new tyres on FE -esp compared to the old tyres, I dont think this is worth much thought. You may be able to spot a difference under controlled test conditions, but not in daily running.

However, 2-3km drop in FE is something that needs to be checked. I would suggest the following, just to rule out basic/ common problems:
1. Check air filter. May not have been changed at all
2. Change Fuel station & fuel brand.
3. A round of additives to clean out the injectors
4. An italian tune-up, or two.

Personally, I would keep the issues separate. Tyres be changed in due course. Use it another 15k if you will. But do get the suspensions checked for the extra wear-out, and get the FE issue sorted out.
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Old 13th April 2017, 22:46   #700
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

Agree with a4anurag here.

Uneven wear on left rear tyre is more likely an issue with suspension and not alignment. As regards low mileage of late, I don't think tyres are responsible unless you are running them on low pressure which appears unlikely too.

1. How is the clutch behaving? Any changes in feel lately?

2. Have you used an engine oil that is more viscous than the recommend one?

3. Please check your air filter, fuel filter and cabin a/c filter and make sure they aren't clogged.

4. Jammed/tight brakes could be causing the low mileage too.

5. Change your fuel station once and see if things get back to normal (possible issues of quantity/quality).

6. Injectors are fine?
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Old 14th April 2017, 12:38   #701
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Isn't that indicating a suspension issue?
As mentioned in the previous post my running is mostly on highways(70%) on good roads. City usage is pretty negligible and I use ORR in HYD mostly which is as good as NH with speed limits of 120 km/h. FASS has checked the suspension set up twice and are pretty confident that there is absolutely no issues. Looking at the current condition they said should last me a lakh of kms unless I start driving on bad roads

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
What was done?
A small washer sort of thing was put on the left side(cant really recall though I was told). This it seems is a known issue in some cars and the fix has been provided by Fiat itself. The service head here at the FASS is a very good friend and with the issue fixed I would believe they know what the did.
The first time they didn't fix as they wanted to make sure there are no issues with the suspension set. I was told about this particular fix then only but they wanted to rule out suspension issues as visual check up didn't yield any results


Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Air pressures maintained and checked regularly?
Yes every time I tank up I get air topped up if required. The petrol bunk is a few kms from home and I usually tank up late in the evening. So incorrect reading due to tires heating up is ruled out. Besides I follow the 5k and 10K alignment and rotation schedule religiously.

Last edited by nibedk : 14th April 2017 at 12:39.
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Old 14th April 2017, 13:23   #702
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Agree with Anurag here, that this tyre wear is possibly indicating a suspesion issue, and suggest you get that checked.
I had it checked twice already and as per FASS it should last me till I hit 1 lacs kms on the odo. My driving is majorly(around 70%) on highways so I would trust the technicians here. I am around the car all the time during service and do general check up(preventive maintenance) every 5 K kms so suspension issue is ruled out already

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Regarding effect of new tyres on FE -esp compared to the old tyres, I dont think this is worth much thought. You may be able to spot a difference under controlled test conditions, but not in daily running.

However, 2-3km drop in FE is something that needs to be checked..
On highways I usually drive at a speeds between 100-120 and get an average of 17-18 km/l. Now at speeds between 80-100 I am getting 13-14 km/l. That's the cause of worry. At 80-100 speeds once can easily get 20 km/l


Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I would suggest the following, just to rule out basic/ common problems:
1. Check air filter. May not have been changed at all
2. Change Fuel station & fuel brand.
3. A round of additives to clean out the injectors
4. An italian tune-up, or two...
  • For someone who has been diligently following up all service intervals and also follows a 5K kms general check up schedule missing air filter change is not possible. As mentioned I am with the car every time it goes for service and I make sure all changes are done as per service manual.
  • Though I usually tank up at a single bunk when I am in the Hyderabad but since a lot of my travel is on highways invariably the petrol bunk keeps changing. I make it a point to fill only Indian Oil. I usually tank up at a bunk which is located at city outskirts on highways. Last 5 tank full were at 3 different petrol bunks.
  • I have never used any additives till date. Can experts guide me here? Does it have any negative effect?
  • Italian tune-up - Remap or tuning box?? Is that what you mean? I would rather trust the manufacturer than tuners. Besides I plan to keep this Fiat as long as I can. Hoping that Jeeps will turn around Fiat's fortune (as a car manufacturer . As an entity FCA is one of the money making one in India by selling engines. I will buy a bigger car may be 2-3 years down the line but this Fiat will continue in my garage till FCA supports Fiat cars in India. So no remap or tuning box for me. I bought a Fiat MJD after a lot of deliberation. Still miss not getting the Linea TJET but with my king of usage diesel suits better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Personally, I would keep the issues separate. Tyres be changed in due course. Use it another 15k if you will. But do get the suspensions checked for the extra wear-out, and get the FE issue sorted out.
Two tires are now bald due on the outer edges due to the uneven tire wear. So only 3 tires are in usable condition. 60 K kms looks good enough to me. I usually drive with my family (wife, daughter and father) and would change the tires. I am my wife both drive the car and would rather be safe than sorry. We have covered 1 k kms in a single day multiple times. So speeds are usually between 100-120 so I would not want to use the tires much longer. Next few months there are no long trips planned but I would change tires as soon as we plan a trip

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Agree with a4anurag here.

Uneven wear on left rear tyre is more likely an issue with suspension and not alignment. As regards low mileage of late, I don't think tyres are responsible unless you are running them on low pressure which appears unlikely too.
Suspension issues have been ruled out already. There is no uneven wear now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
1. How is the clutch behaving? Any changes in feel lately?
60 K service is due in a month's time. Pretty sure that things will be back to normal after the service. There is slight sluggishness which is usually there as it nears the service limit. I really do not feel any change to clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
2. Have you used an engine oil that is more viscous than the recommend one?
I would be one of the last few customers who got the 5 year warranty cover. I would rather not dare take my car anywhere else. Engine oil used has always been the manufacturer recommended one. I follow the service intervals strictly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
3. Please check your air filter, fuel filter and cabin a/c filter and make sure they aren't clogged.
Air and Ac filter get cleaned every 5k kms and get changed every 15 k kms. Fuel filter every 15 k kms. I have followed this since I bought the car. I am seeing such issue first time in 55 K kms. Anyway I would be taking the car for 60 K service in a couple of weeks time. This being a major service I am hoping if there are any issues they would be caught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
4. Jammed/tight brakes could be causing the low mileage too.
Yes this seems to be a logical thing but I haven't really felt it. Will get this checked as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
5. Change your fuel station once and see if things get back to normal (possible issues of quantity/quality).
Last 5 tank fills have been at 3 different stations. All Indian Oil stations. All three selling adulterated oil is too much of a coincidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
6. Injectors are fine?
This too goes into the checklist of things to be checked during the next major service.

Last edited by aah78 : 14th April 2017 at 22:05. Reason: Posts merged. Please use QUOTE+/MULTI-QUOTE when responding to multiple posts. Thanks!
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Old 14th April 2017, 14:26   #703
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

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Originally Posted by nibedk View Post
I have never used any additives till date. Can experts guide me here? Does it have any negative effect?
Please go through the following thread to understand the implication of using fuel additives.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...es-thread.html (The Fuel Additives Thread)

Quote:
Italian tune-up - Remap or tuning box?? Is that what you mean? I would rather trust the manufacturer than tuners. Besides I plan to keep this Fiat as long as I can.
Don't confuse Italian tune up with remap/tuning box. It is a very simple activity that can help get rid of the deposits in the exhaust system. Here's the link to the relevant discussion on the forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ally-work.html (Italian tune-up: Does it really work?)

But since you drive predominantly on highways, Italian tune up may not really be necessary.
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Old 14th April 2017, 14:56   #704
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Default Re: Low mileage as the tires age

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Please go through the following thread to understand the implication of using fuel additives.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...es-thread.html (The Fuel Additives Thread)
Thanks mate. I will go through this thread and see if this is going to help me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Don't confuse Italian tune up with remap/tuning box. It is a very simple activity that can help get rid of the deposits in the exhaust system. Here's the link to the relevant discussion on the forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ally-work.html (Italian tune-up: Does it really work?)

But since you drive predominantly on highways, Italian tune up may not really be necessary.
My bad. I absolutely had no idea about this. Since the last 25-30 k kms my car would not have actually seen rpms above 3 K. When we bought the car we regularly drove @ higher rpms. Can't mention the speeds on the forum though.

Wife used to drive at crazy speeds without knowing though as there is hardly any feel of the actual speed in a Fiat with windows rolled up. I noticed it and then put the speed buzzer at 120 km. Recently an year back we all escaped unhurt when I dozed off on the wheels. The only reason why nothing happened was that the speeds were extremely low around 40 km/hr. The car went up the median with a loud thud and I woke up. Somehow controlled it from not going on to the opposite side. Since that day we have not crossed 120 km.

Does it necessarily mean that I have to drive at more than 3 K rpms under full load or can it be done without a full load.

I remember doing this exercise when I bought the car new after around 5 K on the odo. I used to take it to 4 K rpms when ever I got a chance at lower gears. I read about the adaptive nature of modern ECUs and found that the behavior actually changed.

But does this affect FE as I thought such an exercise changes the behavior of response to throttle inputs. In short making the car more responsive to throttle inputs.
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Old 14th April 2017, 14:59   #705
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to get the maximum Fuel Efficiency

Lots of interesting articles floating around. I will give a try to Italian Tune up thing for my Figo 1.5 TDCi

I have small tip for city driving with mediocre traffic.
Don't drive sedate unless you are tired instead accelerate a bit and change your gears frequently to match the speed. Obviously you need to overtake vehicles quickly in this process; you will see increase in FE at least by 2-3. This works best for me.
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