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Old 14th June 2016, 17:42   #406
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by suresh_gs View Post
Going at high speed on the highways in a big puddle of water will pull down the vehicle speed. I have experienced the same. What if a person tailgating hits your car from behind. In such a situation, it is better to turn on the hazard lights and reduce your speed to around 40-45 kmph.
As pointed by some others too, hazard lights should strictly to be be used on stationary vehicles on road. If you want to increase your visibility in a moving vehicle due to fog/rains one should be switching on fog lamps/regular lamps.

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Originally Posted by null View Post
How safe is it to drive fast though the huge puddles of water on the highway?

Generally, when its raining, you end up driving at a slow speed of 60-80kmph on a highway. Due to inundations of the road, there will be large puddles of water over which you end up driving at 80kmph.

Is there anything to be wary of when we drive through water like this? Will the huge splash of water under the body be a concern? Will it impact any parts?

I always love doing this on empty stretches - like that splash it creates on both sides and I feel my car got itself a free underbody wash

PS: I don't try this in the city to avoid being a nuisance to other road users.
The car would actually get dirtier with the amount of silt that would stick to the underbody. More importantly, do read the hazards of aquaplaning. It can get real scary. If you see a puddle, go as slow as possible, especially if only one side wheels hit water, I have experienced a pull to one side once after which I am extremely careful with puddles of water on highways.
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Old 14th June 2016, 18:27   #407
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Rahul_ View Post
As pointed by some others too, hazard lights should strictly to be be used on stationary vehicles on road.
OK... why?

In several decades of driving, in two countries, it is only recently that I have heard this at all.

To be honest, I do not remember what the British [my other country] Highway Code says about using hazard lights (I'll check) but there is stuff like flashing headlights where the rule-book usage is utterly different to on-the-road reality. Sometimes we can't even take the written authority at face value.

Hazard lights are to indicate danger. err... hazards. The hazard does not have to be your car, and it does not have to be stationary.
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Old 14th June 2016, 18:28   #408
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Sree73 View Post
Is there any way we can increase the visibility in Outside rear view mirrors during the rains? Any special water repellent on the OVRM?. It's becoming increasingly difficult to get a clear view as the rain droplets are sticking to the mirror and even cleaning the mirror with a cloth has minimal effect that too for a short time.
The normal rain X/ ProKlear should work on the side view mirrors as well, if they work I mean. In case you are more interested you may want to try this trick. You might as well make this on your own, so that you can ensure it lets you fold your mirror completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunnabhaiMBBS View Post
Would strongly recommend "Proklear rain shield" over Rain-X.

Why to take pains of frequent application when a long term solution is available?

Am now entering into 3rd monsoon with PK this year and I must admit that it perfectly served me during last 2 monsoons..

*I have no commercial interest whatsoever in the product.
Good to know you it has worked for you. Few queries:
  • Did you follow any specific method/ care for application?
  • Do you need to repeat the application?
  • Have you tried the Anti-Fog? I am more interested in this since I have wipers that clean well but fogging is a challenge.

Last edited by naikameya : 14th June 2016 at 18:39.
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Old 14th June 2016, 19:56   #409
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
[*]Did you follow any specific method/ care for application? [*]Do you need to repeat the application?[*]Have you tried the Anti-Fog? I am more interested in this since I have wipers that clean well but fogging is a challenge.
Dear Ameya,

1. I wiped the glass clean with water soap solution before application. That is it!
2. No, Not for a single time in last 2 years.
3. Yes, I do use their anti fog spray. I must admit that its application is a bit tricky and requires patience. You may want to try it out on a smaller portion before the final application. However, you can completely wipe it off with a piece of cloth in case of incorrect application.
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Old 15th June 2016, 04:15   #410
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
OK... why?

In several decades of driving, in two countries, it is only recently that I have heard this at all.

To be honest, I do not remember what the British [my other country] Highway Code says about using hazard lights (I'll check) but there is stuff like flashing headlights where the rule-book usage is utterly different to on-the-road reality. Sometimes we can't even take the written authority at face value.

Hazard lights are to indicate danger. err... hazards. The hazard does not have to be your car, and it does not have to be stationary.
With all due respect,
I think that since its become a norm in India to drive with hazard lamps on when it rains, or it is foggy we take it easy. This, in my personal opinion is wrong because, to increase the visibility you have options like fog lamps,etc. Hazard lamps flashing means you are in a real hazard situation and you should be crawling if not stationary. If the drivers behind a car can see the car because of the hazard lamps they might as well be visible with use of (generally) more powerful fog lamps.The idea here is that this general differentiation would enable the other driver to make decisions in split of a second by seeing the indications on the vehicle. Cruising on the highway in rains with hazard flashers on is not really a great idea (In my honest opinion)

Don't want to challenge your statement (it might be a recent addition), but here are some of the International guidelines by DMVs and government on the usage of hazard lamps.

UK
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...ers-103-to-158 [Refer : Rule 116]

US
http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/hazard-light-use/ [AAA publishing every state's guidelines, most of them suggesting use on stationary or extremely slow moving vehicles in case of traffic emergency]

UAE
http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/weather...ights-1.897383

I did a lot of search on Indian rules regarding this. However, I couldn't find any. May be its road legal to do so here or may be there is no law that defines it (I doubt). More knowledgable people about the India motor vehicle act can comment on it. However, I sure do feel it would be a good practise to not flash your indicators while cruising.


While driving in the US, I was strictly advised against having hazard lamps on and after which i pondered on it and saw it actually made a lot of sense.
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Old 15th June 2016, 04:39   #411
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Rahul_ View Post
As pointed by some others too, hazard lights should strictly to be be used on stationary vehicles on road.
Is it that the vehicle to be stationary on the middle of the road; err. broken down?
Then you are really a hazard, till it is moved to a safe parking space.

Last edited by rajeev k : 15th June 2016 at 04:55.
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Old 15th June 2016, 04:49   #412
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Is it that the vehicle to be stationary on the middle of the road; er. broken down?
Yes,it refers to vehicle being stationary, it may be in the centre of the road if immovable or taken to one side (might have broken down/met with accident). Aim is to indicate hazard to other vehicles when they approach this vehicle at speeds.

Many senior BHPians questioning opinion about this makes me bit nervous. However, I feel this discussion is healthy and a very common occurrence (more so in this season). I hope by the end of it I shall know what is the right thing to do and follow it.
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Old 15th June 2016, 08:06   #413
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
OK... why?

Hazard lights are to indicate danger. err... hazards. The hazard does not have to be your car, and it does not have to be stationary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul_ View Post

Many senior BHPians questioning opinion about this makes me bit nervous. However, I feel this discussion is healthy and a very common occurrence (more so in this season). I hope by the end of it I shall know what is the right thing to do and follow it.
Ford Figo had/has this feature of flashing hazard lights under emergency braking from high speeds and the vehicle isn't stationary. I totally agree with Thad E Ginathom whenever there is danger, there is no harm in using hazard lights, its more used for your own safety so other road users can have a indication of that your vehicle is getting into some sort of danger.
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Old 15th June 2016, 10:06   #414
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I can understand the reaction against using hazard lights to mean irrelevant non-dangerous stuff. One joke in London used to be that they mean I'll just be few minutes in the shop on badly parked vehicles. However, they are not just for stationary use. Why should hazards exist only when you are stopped.

Hazard lights say Look out! Something dangerous! That's all.

Driving into a wall of rain or fog is dangerous. It is also often hard to see until it happens to you. If you are in front of me, your hazard lights will be valid and welcome.

Encountering slow or stopped traffic on a fast road is dangerous. If you are ahead of me, your hazard lights will be valid and welcome. We could both avoid being part of a pile up.

In these and many other hazard-light situations, the one thing that people should do is turn them off when no longer needed.

Over-use of high beams and hazards (thankfully, we don't have many high-intensity rear fogs here yet) has led to over-reaction. There are lots of situations in which they are perfectly fine, and do no harm anyway.
Well friend, hazard lights are not meant to indicate non-ideal / dangerous driving conditions. Hazard lights are meant to give an advance warning for other road users that your vehicle is a potential hazard so that other road users are intimated to switch over to other lanes and avert an accident.

Traffic rules are clear in themselves and are not subject of surmise by road users to construct meanings that suit their own conveniences.Traffic rules are meant to be understood properly and obliged scrupulously.
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Old 15th June 2016, 10:50   #415
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by Rahul_ View Post
I did a lot of search on Indian rules regarding this. However, I couldn't find any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_pin09 View Post
hazard lights are not meant to indicate non-ideal / dangerous driving conditions. Hazard lights are meant to give an advance warning for other road users that your vehicle is a potential hazard so that other road users are intimated to switch over to other lanes and avert an accident.

Traffic rules are clear in themselves and are not subject of surmise by road users to construct meanings that suit their own conveniences.Traffic rules are meant to be understood properly and obliged scrupulously.
Here is the CMVR document - http://www.tn.gov.in/sta/Cmvr1989.pdf and I can't find any rule which clearly states the usage of Hazard lights. I am not sure how are we constructing meaning in the pretext of traffic rules in this country.
From Rahul's compilation of rules it seems to be evident that there is no universal understanding/rule of using hazard light (every state in US has its own way of defining its usage ). I personally use it to indicate hazard both while driving and stationary (not illegal parking).
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Old 15th June 2016, 10:51   #416
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

Thanks GTO.

I think hazard lights help as well. Yesterday morning when I was driving back from Gurgaon (Udyog Vihar Phase-1) to Delhi , I could not see a thing due to rains !! I think it is imperative to drive real slow and be attentive to the roads.
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Old 15th June 2016, 11:29   #417
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
OK... why?

In several decades of driving, in two countries, it is only recently that I have heard this at all.

To be honest, I do not remember what the British [my other country] Highway Code says about using hazard lights (I'll check) but there is stuff like flashing headlights where the rule-book usage is utterly different to on-the-road reality. Sometimes we can't even take the written authority at face value.

Hazard lights are to indicate danger. err... hazards. The hazard does not have to be your car, and it does not have to be stationary.
As you said, hazard lights are to be used to indicate danger. The point is, if you are cruising at 60kph (or 80 or 100 for that matter), there is no immediate danger to you or the other road users (I'm glossing over the risk of aquaplaning here). And in such a case if you want to change lanes (which you probably will considering the imbeciles on our roads), you do not have the ability to signal your intent to change lanes as you have already turned your hazards on.

Further to that, automatic hazards flashing on hard braking is actually a good practice since in that case your car is a hazard to any following traffic.
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Old 15th June 2016, 14:16   #418
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

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Originally Posted by karts View Post
Ford Figo had/has this feature of flashing hazard lights under emergency braking from high speeds and the vehicle isn't stationary. I totally agree with Thad E Ginathom whenever there is danger, there is no harm in using hazard lights, its more used for your own safety so other road users can have a indication of that your vehicle is getting into some sort of danger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsadeep View Post

Further to that, automatic hazards flashing on hard braking is actually a good practice since in that case your car is a hazard to any following traffic.
Not sure about the blinkers under hard braking in Ford Figo because I haven't ever seen them in action. However, I have seen these happen on a BMW who was driving right ahead of me. If I remember correctly, the flashing happens in the brake lamp bulbs, I don't remember seeing hazard lamps (the turn indicators) blinking on hard braking. In India all cars as per my knowledge have hazard lamps linked to indicators and not the brake lights as in many cars abroad where the break lamps also double up as indicators.
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Old 15th June 2016, 14:28   #419
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
OK... why?

In several decades of driving, in two countries, it is only recently that I have heard this at all.

To be honest, I do not remember what the British [my other country] Highway Code says about using hazard lights (I'll check) but there is stuff like flashing headlights where the rule-book usage is utterly different to on-the-road reality. Sometimes we can't even take the written authority at face value.

Hazard lights are to indicate danger. err... hazards. The hazard does not have to be your car, and it does not have to be stationary.
I agree and second that.
I was in the UK for more than a decade and only two instances come to my mind when they are switched on :-
1. vehicle break-down- to prevent other road users from ramming into the stationary vehicle
2. if there is a sudden slowing of traffic on the motorways, to alert the vehicles behind, to prevent a rear end collision and pile up.

In Kerala, hazards are switched on when there is heavy rains or poor visibility and when a vehicle intends to go straight at a four way junction
( right indicator to turn right, left indicator to turn left, so to go straight flash both ), and a few times for unknown reasons.

I suppose each country has their specific quirks.

But in general, it is a warning and alerting thing. The vehicle doesnt have to neccessarily be stationary.

Cheerio!
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Old 15th June 2016, 15:31   #420
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Safe Driving in the Rains

Thank you to everyone for joinging in the discussion, and especially to Rahul for taking the trouble to compile some international points of view. In practical terms, my mind is unchanged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karts View Post
... whenever there is danger, there is no harm in using hazard lights, its more used for your own safety so other road users can have a indication of that your vehicle is getting into some sort of danger.
Or that some kind of danger (anything from a bank of fog to a herd of cows) on the road ahead. Real danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_pin09 View Post
Well friend, hazard lights are not meant to indicate non-ideal / dangerous driving conditions.
They are meant to indicate danger (a hazard!) and not just that
Quote:
...your vehicle is a potential hazard so that other road users are intimated to switch over to other lanes and avert an accident
.
Quote:
Traffic rules are clear in themselves and are not subject of surmise by road users to construct meanings that suit their own conveniences.Traffic rules are meant to be understood properly and obliged scrupulously.
Well, yes, but ask someone in UK what flashing headlights means, and then show them their own highway code!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
Here is the CMVR document - http://www.tn.gov.in/sta/Cmvr1989.pdf and I can't find any rule which clearly states the usage of Hazard lights. I am not sure how are we constructing meaning in the pretext of traffic rules in this country.
India needs a new and updated equivalent to the 'highway codes' of other countries.
Quote:
From Rahul's compilation of rules it seems to be evident that there is no universal understanding/rule of using hazard light (every state in US has its own way of defining its usage ). I personally use it to indicate hazard both while driving and stationary (not illegal parking).
Me too.
Not illegal, or just plain bad, parking. Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsadeep View Post
As you said, hazard lights are to be used to indicate danger. The point is, if you are cruising at 60kph (or 80 or 100 for that matter), there is no immediate danger to you or the other road users (I'm glossing over the risk of aquaplaning here). And in such a case if you want to change lanes (which you probably will considering the imbeciles on our roads), you do not have the ability to signal your intent to change lanes as you have already turned your hazards on.
Aquaplaning. When it happens, you are in full-time emergency mode (not that there is much you can do). But next time (I hope there isn't one) I'll try to remember to turn on the hazard lights!
Quote:
Further to that, automatic hazards flashing on hard braking is actually a good practice since in that case your car is a hazard to any following traffic.
Most, if not all the appropriate hazards I have been talking about, if on highways/motorways etc, would involve slowing down, if not heavy braking.

I would rate flashing hazard lights on heavy braking as a desirable advance. Obviously the threshold must be set with care. In stop-start traffic, it is bad enough having to look at the brake lights of the car in front, without any more lights!

Another helpful feature which exists on some cars is that operating the indicators overrides the hazard lights.

I wouldn't like to give the impression that I drive around with the hazard lights flashing . Actually, I hit that switch very rarely.

<EDIT, crossposted...>

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post
I agree and second that.
I was in the UK for more than a decade and only two instances come to my mind when they are switched on :-
1. vehicle break-down- to prevent other road users from ramming into the stationary vehicle
2. if there is a sudden slowing of traffic on the motorways, to alert the vehicles behind, to prevent a rear end collision and pile up.
This one, from my previous post, is also regularly used in UK, especially on motorways and dual carriageways: Driving into a wall of rain or fog. Animals, etc, would be another one.

It is now a decade since I have driven regularly in UK. I have forgotten a lot.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 15th June 2016 at 15:38.
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