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Old 10th January 2009, 18:01   #181
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Originally Posted by WanderNomad View Post
I have a 5 year old Accent, done only 30K and very tastefully kept.
I would have surely sold it had it been driven a lac kms plus since all its juice would have been extracted but in the present state I find it as good as new.
Hi ,
I too have a 2003 accent . Bought it from a relative in march 2007 with 20 000k on the odo ( genuine at that ) Was in great shape. Still is at 48500 km but as the components start reaching end of their service life, your maintenance cost goes up.My experience is like-
1) changed the tyres as the original ones with almost as good as new tread depth. Rubber gets old and britle and the tyres though looking great may just burst on highway. So upgraded the tyres. ( cost - about 11k )
2) Silencer muffler pipe corroded - replaced ( cost - 6k )
3) front suspension and steering joints, struts , strut kits and mountings weakened - replaced at 39500km ( cost - 11 k)
4) front wheel bearings developed play replaced ( cost - 1.5 k)
5) front power windows winders developed play ( cost - 2.2k)
6) master brake kits ( rear ) leaking , replaced ( cost - 1.25 k)
7) front brake pads worn out , replaced ( cost - 2.5k )
8) battery repaced - ( cost - 3.5 k)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
this apart from the regular service costs and plugs, air filter , oil top ups , replacements etc. other costs too but i havent included expenses that you have to incur on new cars as well and are not specific due to ageing effects on car life.
So spent about 42000 Rs. over a period of 19 months .
I too would like to run her for 100000 km but i also realize that no matter how good the car condition is and how well you drive / maintain her. In order to keep her in very good condition you have to spend quite a lot of money.
And we are not talking here of superficial things here, plain mechanicals.
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Old 10th January 2009, 22:24   #182
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Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post
Hi ,
I too have a 2003 accent . Bought it from a relative in march 2007 with 20 000k on the odo ( genuine at that ) Was in great shape. Still is at 48500 km but as the components start reaching end of their service life, your maintenance cost goes up.My experience is like-
1) changed the tyres as the original ones with almost as good as new tread depth. Rubber gets old and britle and the tyres though looking great may just burst on highway. So upgraded the tyres. ( cost - about 11k )
2) Silencer muffler pipe corroded - replaced ( cost - 6k )
3) front suspension and steering joints, struts , strut kits and mountings weakened - replaced at 39500km ( cost - 11 k)
4) front wheel bearings developed play replaced ( cost - 1.5 k)
5) front power windows winders developed play ( cost - 2.2k)
6) master brake kits ( rear ) leaking , replaced ( cost - 1.25 k)
7) front brake pads worn out , replaced ( cost - 2.5k )
8) battery repaced - ( cost - 3.5 k)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
this apart from the regular service costs and plugs, air filter , oil top ups , replacements etc. other costs too but i havent included expenses that you have to incur on new cars as well and are not specific due to ageing effects on car life.
So spent about 42000 Rs. over a period of 19 months .
I too would like to run her for 100000 km but i also realize that no matter how good the car condition is and how well you drive / maintain her. In order to keep her in very good condition you have to spend quite a lot of money.
And we are not talking here of superficial things here, plain mechanicals.
Hmmm... Agree to an extent!
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Old 20th February 2009, 18:19   #183
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Man!!!!
What an awesome thread it is!!! Thanks a lot GTO. Few days (or months may be) back I was thinking about getting pre-owned but well maintained OHC vtec or accord or corolla (as 5L+ really hard on my pocket). Later I changed my mind to go for a new one lower segment in same price range. (Now I don't remember why) I was thinking of using it for 5 years (till EMIs are over) and then selling it for some much powerful and pleasure-to-drive car. But my ears always rise when I hear about somebody selling his current car (but I never heard anybody around me selling their vtecs). Now I'm again on looking for preowned ones. I'm not at all in a hurry to buy a car, so I can easily spend 5-6 months to look for the right car rather than jumping on some new car (which will be mostly an adjustment).

Indeed this thread is not about "buying a second hand car instead of new one", but the calculations....... These are pretty much which people generally tend to ignore or don't care to see (as I used to ).

Thanks again GTO!!!
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Old 12th March 2009, 12:29   #184
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I dont think there is a definite answer to this question. However a fitting answer in my opinion would be between who you are, what you do and what you believe.

Who you are.
so if you are a salaried person which i think is the biggest curse due to Indian taxation which discriminate the salary classes, its difficult. However if you are an entrepreneur then its easy to claim depreciation benefits to nullify your taxes. So in the former scenario, its a loss whereas the latter its a profit (in a way)

What you do.
So if you are an outgoing personality or in a high profile role, you would need to maintain status quo. You dont want to drive an alto when your subordinate could drive a honda city :-) This is irrespective of numbers. Its the human mentality

What you believe.
Belief is everything. It makes or breaks you. I personally know a friend who lives in the same bldg whos in a VP role with a large MNC who still drives a Logan (very recently upgraded from an indica).

If you believe you gonna make it big in 3 or 5 years, go ahead and make your dream purchase. if you think a car can seriously improve that status quo of yours and make a differennce in non-material gains, monetarily then do the same.

In the end, i would like to quote something from buddha.

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.Buddha
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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
[ I think you meant status, not status quo, which might have a very different impact on the outcome ]

Why so ? If X is not too keen about cars except as a mode of local family transportation, a basic set of wheels might suffice. A subordinate, Y, might love to drive, highways and all, and spend on cars big time. X might, otoh, own a fancy villa that can accommodate the extended family for get-togethers etc. Or splurge on a huge holiday if he/she is a travel-freak. Or on books, or cameras, or whatever they're into.

* Don't buy stuff to ensure "yours-is-bigger/better-than-your-neighbours/subordinates" - thats a path thats going nowhere
* You can be "passionate" about a couple of things, not photography AND travel AND driving AND houses AND gadgets AND....you get the drift. If this is the case, there's a need to learn how to absorb marketing messages less impactfully, cause, again, this is a path leading nowhere good.

After years of driving the OHC, I was contemplating a change last year and for a while considering the practicality that the Marina offered, at a decent upfront and running cost. A neighbour was surprised I was "considering a downgrade". I was amused, and explained that its merely a tool to fit my current needs - and 7 years ago, I could afford to fall in love with the sweet sound of the City at 6k revs, but now space, and frugality, and the flexibility the car offered with kids, and visitors (railway station/airport pickups) was the key.
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Originally Posted by vij4all View Post
Fantastic thread indeed.

Most of you will remember my woes with the Ford Fusion that i currently own and how desperate i was (not anymore after reading this) to get rid of it and upgrade.

You know I spent sleepless nights thinking should i sell it off at roughly 2.5 L to 3.0 L and go in for a swift at approximately 5L or an SX4 at approximately 7.5L ? With the swift, I wouldn't be able to get the benefit and the pleasure that I got with the fusion (boot, power etc) and with the SX4, I would be stretching way beyond my budget.

I worked out a comparision for the next 5 years purely based on EMIs and realised that even if i had to spend 40K every year for the next 5 years, the car that i have presently would still be cheaper than a new SX (not the emi'd value).

But like many of you have said and friend of mine who owns an indica and has just bought a safari for 9.5 L says "Shauk ki koi keemat nahi hoti". At the end of the day it boils down to what you want out of a product be it a car, phone or even a pair of jeans.

I have never todate bought a branded pair of jeans in India. Somehow spending 2K on a pair of jeans never appealed to me though I have friends who splurge. My jeans are priced at $10 and come from walmart once a year when my sister visits India. But on the other hand, I love buying and owning original music CDs and would not hesitate to spend 400 rupees on a new release whereas my friends who spend on the jeans will download it from the internet.

My father always raised his eyebrows whenever I upgraded to a phone that i always wanted. In the last 3 years, I've changed 3 phones from a communicator to a p990i and an n series but I now realise that maybe i dont need the i phone after all.

Interestingly, while on cars, my father always had a simple logic which again is his perspective so don't jump on me. Everytime I would talk to him about the latest cars, the power and the price, he would ask me "how many people can it seat comfortably?'' and on most occassions I would say "4". His seond question would be "how quickly will it take you to your office in peak Bombay traffic?" and I would say "maybe 5 minutes if the signals are all green or maybe take more time since its a bigger car" and he would just smile and I would give a stupid grin.

I still went ahead and bought the fusion though i could have opted for an alto or an indica because I love driving and am always on the lookout for getaways.

Between mind and heart - Michael Cretu, Enigma
The three quotes above sum up my thoughts on this.

Yep one just can't be passionate about all the materialistic things in life, one need to have a passion for something specific, (could be cars) or else one is just being materialistic.

Yes as GTO mentions all through out this thread one can always manage with the older vehicle for 10 years instead of 5. I have used a Cielo for 9 years (bought it when 2 years old used till 11 years old) and currently use a Safari in it's 8th year (bought it new). The Laura is in its 4th year, (bought when 1.9 years old) but somehow I feel I may let this one go at 5 years.

The Fiats and Ambys and for that matter the Mahindra jeeps of yester years actually appreciated with age over the cost at which they had been bought. And since the shape was more or less the same and electronics not existant we could overhaul and use the same car for decades. Today with the global options available in India it's a different ball game, but one does yean for those days gone by when one could use ones car for ages.

The cost of buying a new car (including the financial loss of not investing the same money) will always be much higher than using the same car for longer, irrespective of the maintenance cost of the car. (at least upto 10 years beyond which the the car depreciates more than the cost at which one repairs it.)
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Old 13th March 2009, 10:08   #185
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yes as GTO mentions all through out this thread one can always manage with the older vehicle for 10 years instead of 5.
If not for 10 years, atleast for a reasonable amount of time. 5 years is simply too early to get rid of modern cars. Even if we extend ownership to 7 - 8 years, that is a lot of money saved!
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Old 13th March 2009, 13:49   #186
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So here is my current scenario:

Scenario 1

Mahindra Scorpio DX 2004
Odometer reading: 1,02,000

If I intend to keep the vehicle for another five years the following would be my costs:

New set of Tires: 20K
Paint Job + little other cosmetic facelift: 30K
Some very minor electrical work: max 10K
Depreciation of value over the next 5 years: 2L
Extra maintenance cost for each year over what I would spend on a new vehcile: 10L p.a.

Depreciation benefit would be in the range of 20K at max

The clutch, brakes, AC have all been serviced / worked on very recently and I do not see any serious expenses anytime soon.

So the ownership cost for the next 5 years worksout to be 2.9L



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Scenario 2

Buy thew newly launched Scorpio SLE (or Verna SX but I will keep it to the Scorpio now)

Total cost on road Mumbai: 9,30,000 + 76,000 = 10,06,000
Sell the vehicle after a period of 5 years for approxiumately 3.5L if not more.
So the gross vehicle cost for 5 years = 6,60,000
Less the depreciation benefit I can avail of @ 30% for 6,60,000 = 1,98,000
So the onwership cost for next five years would be = 4,62,500

Simultaneously I am even assuming the new Scorpio would mostly yield atleast 10% better fuel efficiency. That is mostly a saving of approximately 38,000 and a lot more if I get the Verna.
The vehcile would easily do 1,00,000 KMS in a period of 5 years.

So the ownership cost for the new vehicle over the next five years is about 4,24,000.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Summary

So, I land up paying an extra 4,24,000 - 2,90,000 = 1,34,000 for using a brand new upgraded version of the vehicle.
I get ABS, better engine, better seats, better suspension, a few cosmetic touches that I like, and some that I detest. Also, the added reliability would be an extra advantage.

I have overlooked the oppurtunity cost of the EMIs to setoff the 'new car' feel, and that in my Books seems acceptable.

What do you guys feel about the above scenario? Have I missed out on factoring something important?

manson.

Last edited by manson : 13th March 2009 at 13:56.
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Old 13th March 2009, 15:20   #187
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Originally Posted by manson View Post
What do you guys feel about the above scenario? Have I missed out on factoring something important?

manson.
As you yourself have mentioned, it is the opportunity cost that has not been factored in. Assuming that you go in for a 5 year loan and put down a 20% margin, the opportunity cost alone will work out to about 12 - 14 lakhs (most convervative investments).

If you're happy with your Scorpio, what's the point in replacing it with another of the same model? A new Innova has been added to your garage in the recent past. I suggest keeping & using the Scorpio as a beater.
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Old 13th March 2009, 17:18   #188
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
As you yourself have mentioned, it is the opportunity cost that has not been factored in. Assuming that you go in for a 5 year loan and put down a 20% margin, the opportunity cost alone will work out to about 12 - 14 lakhs (most convervative investments).
I will be mostly putting down a little over 50% down as margin and would be going in for a three year loan, the emi works out to 16,200, this without negotiating.
Just wondering, on a 36 month 16,000 emi what sort of a maturity amount would I be looking at the end of three years? Any rough figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you're happy with your Scorpio, what's the point in replacing it with another of the same model? A new Innova has been added to your garage in the recent past. I suggest keeping & using the Scorpio as a beater.
The Scorpio is going to need new tires soon enough, and it is also due for a paintjob and other minute areas of a cosmetic facelift. And I am not sure about the quality of Paintjob done by an aftermarket place, very often I have seen that the interiors are a misfit, and crackle, vibrate, and make annoying sounds too.

I would be spending over 50K alone for the above expenes and I am not sure if I would keep the Scorpio for a long time after that if the niggles develop.
The 50K plus spent on the redo would go down the drain and I would be questioned about the recoat of paint when I would sell the car.
I'm guessing its time to browse through HVKumar's ownership review once again, would definitely help.

manson.
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Old 13th March 2009, 19:18   #189
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Originally Posted by manson View Post
Just wondering, on a 36 month 16,000 emi what sort of a maturity amount would I be looking at the end of three years? Any rough figure?
Rough figure = 7.xx lakhs.

How about a lateral upgrade? Got a thread coming up soon. Wait & watch!
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Old 21st March 2009, 16:01   #190
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very very nice thread GTO. good work and also some good inputs by various people.
I have a 6.5 yrs. Santro with only around 35000 odd kms on it. I have maintained well and its still in mint condition. even though I have sometimes driven it in really bad roads for a long journeys, its still pretty tight (as my mechanic said, "ekdum kadak gaadi hai") and no rattling sounds. everything is working the same way it was when bought from the showroom! thank god for that.
I like it even more now since there are no more EMI's!
and I have seen a relative's santro which was used for 35k kms in around 3-4 yrs. but still its condition was pretty bad. looked kinda abused. like the gear box became too loose and steering was badly scratched and all. even though the car was driven by good driver! how come, still cant understand!

I cant understand the logic behind those Toyota corolla adds which came sometime back. change it after 3 years and use the amount for the DP of your next car!
I mean 3 years is way too less for a corolla! heck my santro is still almost like new after 6.5 yrs! after 3 yras selling a corolla would be soooo stupid! complete waste of money!

I also think that when one goes to buy a car, buy the best you can, and by ths I dont mean that go averboard and buy what you can't afford and then feel the pinch later on, but buy sensibly and go for what you can afford best at that time. that way you wont be thinking of getting rid of the car after the EMI period on the day of your purchase itself! will be more attached and will take care of it well. and also use it way longer even after EMI period and eventually save more money! and also you will enjoy it till you have it! heck.. so go there and buy your dream (realistic one!) car and live a little! you have one life after all!
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Old 21st March 2009, 17:21   #191
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Originally Posted by magikrider View Post
very very nice thread GTO. good work and also some good inputs by various people.
Thanks Magikrider.

Quote:
I have a 6.5 yrs. Santro with only around 35000 odd kms on it. I have maintained well and its still in mint condition.
That's a long-termer if I ever saw one!

Quote:
I like it even more now since there are no more EMI's!
Ah, the beauty of a non-EMI life.

Quote:
and I have seen a relative's santro which was used for 35k kms in around 3-4 yrs. but still its condition was pretty bad. looked kinda abused. like the gear box became too loose and steering was badly scratched and all. even though the car was driven by good driver! how come, still cant understand!
As we discussed earlier, keeping your car in top shape will only lengthen its usable / enjoyable life. I don't want to get rid of my Vtec, even though its gotten into the 7th year on the 18th of March (4 days ago).

Quote:
I cant understand the logic behind those Toyota corolla adds which came sometime back. change it after 3 years and use the amount for the DP of your next car!
I mean 3 years is way too less for a corolla!
Agreed. The only logic to that ad is contributing to Toyotas kitty.

Quote:
I also think that when one goes to buy a car, buy the best you can, and by ths I dont mean that go averboard and buy what you can't afford and then feel the pinch later on, but buy sensibly and go for what you can afford best at that time. that way you wont be thinking of getting rid of the car after the EMI period on the day of your purchase itself!
Wise words. The better car you buy, the longer it will (most probably) stay in your garage.
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Old 21st March 2009, 23:27   #192
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That's a long-termer if I ever saw one!
And here's another!
Bought my Santro Sep 2002 & have tried to keep in reasonably good shape. The drive-shaft started making a little rumbling sound recently, so got a mono amp for the sub for noise cancellation.
The odo is going to touch 73K km pretty soon & am wondering if I should start looking for a buyer when it crosses 100K.
Thanks, GTO, for this wonderful thread.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 00:20   #193
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Thanks GTO, sir you cleared my confusion. i was asking dad to change the car ( though its only 2-3 years old) and he replied that after EMI's its real fun to own that car. i was thinking how the fun starts only after EMI's.

Off Topic: Over here in Canada average car owner keeps the car for more then 8 years.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 00:40   #194
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[quote=HIGHNOON;1124944] update ...
I too have a 2003 accent . Bought it from a relative in march 2007 with 20 000k on the odo ( genuine at that ) Was in great shape. Still is at 48500 km but as the components start reaching end of their service life, your maintenance cost goes up.My experience is like-
1) changed the tyres as the original ones with almost as good as new tread depth. Rubber gets old and britle and the tyres though looking great may just burst on highway. So upgraded the tyres. ( cost - about 11k )
2) Silencer muffler pipe corroded - replaced ( cost - 6k )
3) front suspension and steering joints, struts , strut kits and mountings weakened - replaced at 39500km ( cost - 11 k)
4) front wheel bearings developed play replaced ( cost - 1.5 k)
5) front power windows winders developed play ( cost - 2.2k)
6) master brake kits ( rear ) leaking , replaced ( cost - 1.25 k)
7) front brake pads worn out , replaced ( cost - 2.5k )
8) battery replaced - ( cost - 3.5 k)
9) rear right wheel bearing replaced - ( cost - 1500 k )
10) rear right strut leaking, strut kit torn on account of an idiot alignment guy jumped a divider at speed.
both rear struts replaced with 'monro' make with new strut kits ( vir) - ( ( cost - 6750 k )
rear right tyre developed a bulge , replaced with jk- tornado xps -cost Rs.2.1k)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
odometer touched 50000 km today in the evening sometime between taloja & Mumbra. car is in better condition today than it was at 21000 km.
Tally stands at 50050 as i parked her today.... nice feeling.
wish i could hit a century without more expenses...
.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
all this apart from the regular service costs and plugs, air filter , oil top ups , replacements etc. And i havent included expenses that you have to incur on new cars like accessories, LPG kit, seat covers etc. as well and are not specific due to ageing effects on car life.
So spent about 50000 Rs. over a period of 23 months having done 29000 kms.
I would like to run her for 100000 km but i also realize that no matter how good the car condition is and how well you drive / maintain her. In order to keep her in very good condition you have to spend quite a lot of money.
And we are not talking here of superficial things here, plain mechanicals.
She is in excellent mechanical & electrical condition now.
my total cost over two years including the purchase now stands at 315000/- and if the vehicle does not need more expensive repair jobs apart from the ones that have got work done on., it ll be a perfect scenario.

Last edited by HIGHNOON : 22nd March 2009 at 00:44.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 01:35   #195
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but I must say one thing, I dont like the way the Japs build their cars these days... so after a few years your car will start showing body problems! a little shake here and a little rattle there! thats sad.. and you might eventually start thinking about buying a new one instead.
the europeans are still built to last. thats why I would prefer a european over a Japanese anyday.

I also think that you should try and keep the car in stock condition as much as possible, except the ice upgrades or installation if there's none. I remember I had changed my hubcaps with funky alloy-lookalike wheel covers but eventually got them removed and installed the regular factofy hubcaps after those wheelcovers got cracks and started making rattling sounds. so better get the best options on accsesories you want from the company itself. like central locking, leather seats, sunroof etc. because I had bad experience with central locking fitted on my esteem and a sunroof fitted on my fully fiber DC type bodied gypsy (heck.. it was one of a kind in town and a head turner then! was a kid back then.) and M800. so now I dont get any extra fitments except the ICE. and believe me, if you keep your car in a good condition and in the way you got it from the company.. you will enjoy it everyday till you use it and it will most probably never let you down! and eventually use it for a much longer duration and save a lot of money eventually!

also a little off topic, but I was just wondering, what would you guys suggest when buying a new car, EMI or buying in full DP if you have the money then and thus enjoying the EMI free car all the way! would like to get some expert opinions here if possible.
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