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Old 7th September 2008, 00:52   #121
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is it a good option to park your car, in a shady place, with the keys inside and hope someone steals it?
Most insurers will refuse payout if it is proven that key was left in the car when it was stolen. Some even ask you to produce the keys when you report it stolen!
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Old 7th September 2008, 01:55   #122
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A friend of mine, in a bank job, got married 3 years ago and majorly urgraded his lifestyle. Wife is doing her postgrads, he resides at rented apartment at lokhandwala and owns a 2 year old fiesta and a 1 yr. old swift.

He is changing the swift soon ... coz wifey doesnt like it.

The vicious circle of credit has a good hold on him..
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Old 7th September 2008, 12:24   #123
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Sorry if its too late in the thread but...
@GTO- 1.5Lacs for a 10 year old OHC VTEC is not realistic at all.
2013 is going to be quite different as far as the motoring scene is concerned and the figure that would be realistic is somewhere close to 50-75K max.

Also a present day well maintained VTEC is available for close to 3.5Lacs, anything better will only be bought by an enthusiat. And anything pricier, one will always think of a new vehicle.
This is what i see in Delhi.

Again there are a lot of other factors which are variable in the next 5years of ownership w.r.t income, cost of living, fuel prices etc etc. which might force someon e not to retain their old vehicle.

For example: You own a Mercedes E220 at the moment and lets pressume it is just a year old, in the next 5yrs you grow monetarilly at a point where you can easily afford a couple of C65AMGs or something even better. There is no way you would make space for the E220 in your garrage and would sell it off at the 1st instance. The thought of saving by retaining the old car wont even cross your mind.

Well! Not everybody gets lucky like that but apart from the above a person always thinks of selling the old car when it reaches a point where a lot of things need change due to wear and tear, like at 80K service or when one needs to change belts, tyres, suspensions, bearings, sometimes paint is required etc or a major problem is about to arise wherein an individual always thinks that its best for him to sell off the old horse and let the next owner handle the expenses, the amount of money that he would be spending on changing the worn parts can be invested in the new car. This is what the general public thinks and maybe i would too.

As long as there is income, expenses would be reccuring and it goes around in a viscous circle.

So the idea of retaining an old car as it would help you save money is a bit impractical a various variable factors are involved which are uncontrollable. It sure looks good on papers but IMHO does not apply to real world scenarios.

IMHO in today's world a person only retains an old vehicle if:-
1. Its a cult car.
2. One is emotionally attached to it./Has plans to mod it and keep as a weekend car.
3. Legally/contractually obliged to keep it.
4. Cannot afford to change due to the circumstances.

You would never sell off your M&M Jeep CL340 Classic because of its emotional worth but i do sense you might be considering to sell the OHC VTEC..
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Old 7th September 2008, 12:50   #124
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Glad that my thoughts could be of help to some of you. Look, most of us are in our late-twenties / early-thirties. This is the time to start serious financial planning toward life and our dear ones. If we are already driving a decent car, that's good enough, isn't it? Why not delay that upgrade by 3 / 4 / 5 years, utilize your existing car completely, and steer the money saved toward some smart investments / savings. Heck, get a couple of mods (leather, alloy + rubber, exhaust, ICE) on your car if it makes you feel better, and give her a mid-life rejuvenation. Still be way cheaper than an upgrade.

Remember, the rich got there by spending their money smart. Not blowing it all up
Very well put. I took exactly that decision last year.
  • Yeah the OHC 1.3 - now 7+ years old - is not the most powerful around. Its still more than adequate, on the highways and in city.
  • Its not the quietest, or most comfortable - but 10+ hour journeys are still fine. And it takes the 4 of us + luggage ok.
  • Its not diesel, or the most FE (that, possiblly, is me, not the car). But the cash I save gets me a lot of fuel.
  • Its done about 55k, so there's a lot left in the engine.
  • A new coat of paint, alloys, ICE etc rejuvenated it it a year ago and now a windshield replacement will solve the last issue.
  • Sure there are a few rattles and squeaks, but I take solace from the fact that often, I hear the same from 6 month old car owners.
  • At the current stage in life, utility just became a notch more important than zip. In reply to a cost analysis someone did for Bangalore expenses, just the kids' fees + bus fees etc adds up to >20k . The "upgrade" can wait. If at all, will be switching to an Indica Vista or similar!
I think one very important reason to retain an older car is "Do I really need to get a new one ? What are my pain points with the current one and will the new one I can afford now really solve them?"

Last edited by zenx : 7th September 2008 at 12:52.
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Old 7th September 2008, 13:09   #125
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(not directed towards anyone in particular)

Suppose you're 40 years old, and you put off buying your new car for a few years, save 22L. Then, when you're 50, you do the same and save 33L. At age 60 you save 44L by delaying another car purchase. At age 70 (alas), you have a heart attack and die.

Furthermore, if you drive an average of 10,000 kilometers a year, from age 20 to age 70, you've driven 500,000 kilometers. Assuming an average speed (for a mix of city and highway driving) of 50 km/h (optimistic), you've spent 10,000 hours of your life driving your cars. Thats a year and two months (417 days) behind the wheel of your car. For many of us, that number will be much higher.

You lived your life always wondering what it would be like to drive that newer, faster, better car. And you always knew which were the newer, faster, better cars because you would read endlessly about them (magazines, websites) or talk about them with your friends. What you drove really mattered to you.

You're saved 99L in your bank account, plus accumulated interest. You're a rich man when you die. I hope you've figured out some way of transferring your hard earned gains to your new bank account in the afterlife!

Last edited by theEnd : 7th September 2008 at 13:11. Reason: typos
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Old 7th September 2008, 14:12   #126
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
(not directed towards anyone in particular)

Suppose you're 40 years old, and you put off buying your new car for a few years, save 22L. Then, when you're 50, you do the same and save 33L. At age 60 you save 44L by delaying another car purchase. At age 70 (alas), you have a heart attack and die.

Furthermore, if you drive an average of 10,000 kilometers a year, from age 20 to age 70, you've driven 500,000 kilometers. Assuming an average speed (for a mix of city and highway driving) of 50 km/h (optimistic), you've spent 10,000 hours of your life driving your cars. Thats a year and two months (417 days) behind the wheel of your car. For many of us, that number will be much higher.

You lived your life always wondering what it would be like to drive that newer, faster, better car. And you always knew which were the newer, faster, better cars because you would read endlessly about them (magazines, websites) or talk about them with your friends. What you drove really mattered to you.

You're saved 99L in your bank account, plus accumulated interest. You're a rich man when you die. I hope you've figured out some way of transferring your hard earned gains to your new bank account in the afterlife!
Really good one.
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Old 7th September 2008, 14:19   #127
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
You lived your life always wondering what it would be like to drive that newer, faster, better car. And you always knew which were the newer, faster, better cars because you would read endlessly about them (magazines, websites) or talk about them with your friends. What you drove really mattered to you.
Some part of that is true, but somehow I don't "live my life always wondering about what it would be like to drive whatever..". Yeah, sure, I'd love to do just that ONE lap in an F1 car, or a Veyron, or even a Ferrari, or forget all that, just the BMW 7-series will do, or.... you see how it goes. Its a continuous spiral of desires, and for now, downshifting and gunning hard for that slingshot overtake provides oodles of fun in my rickety old jalopy, and I'll live with it

[the same "aspirational" issues exist for a whole lot of things - TV->LCD/Plasma->Your Own Home Theatre->Low End->Real Cool Stuff..., Cameras, Houses/Villas - pretty much everything in life has a 'cool I wonder what'll X/Y feel like' - but then you got to find a balance amongst the numerous pulls and desires, and have fun while you do that. ]

[ Without giving/screwing up on some other aspect, if I may add ]

Last edited by zenx : 7th September 2008 at 14:21. Reason: Added a "conclusion"
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Old 7th September 2008, 14:26   #128
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Rejuvenating your existing car definitely makes sense. Shodding your plain jane sedan with some nice alloys + performance rubber, touchup / paintjob, exhaust, ICE & leather seats ought to cost substantially lesser than a new car. And will keep you just as happy (if not more).
What if the person in question already did all these when the car was brand new?
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Old 7th September 2008, 14:27   #129
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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
[the same "aspirational" issues exist for a whole lot of things - TV->LCD/Plasma->Your Own Home Theatre->Low End->Real Cool Stuff..., Cameras, Houses/Villas - pretty much everything in life has a 'cool I wonder what'll X/Y feel like' - but then you got to find a balance amongst the numerous pulls and desires, and have fun while you do that. ]

[ Without giving/screwing up on some other aspect, if I may add ]
Its human nature to be never be satisfied. No amount of cars and materialistic objects can give you eternal happiness or satisfaction. Humans always want more. Ask a M800 owner, for him, Santro is heaven. For a Santro owner, Verna is Heaven. For the Verna owner, Civic is heaven. For the Civic owner, Accord is what he wants. For the Accord owner, its the Merc that he dreams about... and so on!


If you really want eternal happiness and satisfaction, look somewhere else.
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Old 7th September 2008, 15:08   #130
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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Let me apply "GTO thinking" in a simplistic way to your situation.
Buttttttttttttt your calculations are dependent on a 4L outstanding. Let him confirm the amount.

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Originally Posted by e1t1bet View Post
That guy is seriously crazy,unless his wife is earning(and contributing) as well.
He posted that the nutjob's wife is a homemaker.

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Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Nice calculation GTO. I have been wondering for a long time what percentage of your monthly salary can one spend on car EMIs. Was planning to start a new thread on this.
I would not spend a rupee more than 8 - 10% on a cars EMI.

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Originally Posted by amu1983 View Post
But the equation changes (perhaps slightly) when one is a business owner. The depreciation of the new 'toy' offers some mental comfort and an additional incentive to buy.
Depreciation benefit cannot be the sole reason behind buying a new car. Say 20% in the first year of owning a 10L car = 2.0L. However, that is not the entire picture. The actual benefit is 30% of that 2 lacs which is 60,000. Depreciation reduces the taxable income.

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My thoughts on this - The depreciation benefit is a false, psychological incentive by the government.
Nothing false about it. Depreciation is basically writing off the wear & tear / cost of usage on your company's equipment.....lowered asset value on the balance sheet.

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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
@GTO- 1.5Lacs for a 10 year old OHC VTEC is not realistic at all.
It is not uncommon for a '98 OHC 1.5 exi to sell for 1.5 lakhs today. Plus, remember that a car depreciates fastest in the first 2 - 3 years, and slowest in the 8 - 10 year window.

Quote:
Well! Not everybody gets lucky like that but apart from the above a person always thinks of selling the old car when it reaches a point where a lot of things need change due to wear and tear, like at 80K service or when one needs to change belts, tyres, suspensions, bearings, sometimes paint is required etc or a major problem is about to arise wherein an individual always thinks that its best for him to sell off the old horse and let the next owner handle the expenses, the amount of money that he would be spending on changing the worn parts can be invested in the new car. This is what the general public thinks and maybe i would too.
Exactly the point of this thread i.e. to prove the *general* thought process wrong. Look, no one can argue with actual numbers. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a well-maintained modern hatch / sedan will give you reliable service for atleast 1.5 lakh kms, if not 2.0. And all those mid-life expenses (timing belt, suspension revamp, paint job etc.) will cost a fraction of a new car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
You're saved 99L in your bank account, plus accumulated interest. You're a rich man when you die. I hope you've figured out some way of transferring your hard earned gains to your new bank account in the afterlife!
Lets not get into extremes here, else I'll whip a calculation of how broke you will be @ 39 after changing your car every 12 months.

What we are discussing is practical, comfortably applicable to real life and doesn't really amount to any compromise. Why sell your car for 40% of what you paid for it when it has 70% of its usable life left?

P.S. Your next generation will benefit from the 99 lakhs saved, even in the example you cited.
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Old 7th September 2008, 15:19   #131
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Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Nice calculation GTO. I have been wondering for a long time what percentage of your monthly salary can one spend on car EMIs. Was planning to start a new thread on this. But now that this topic has come up here, we can discuss the same here I guess. Please guys, lets have some thumb rule how much is it 'safe' to spend on car EMIs. This will also help first time buyers.
What a "safe" amount is depends solely on your lifestyle and your desire to save. I am paying about 15% of my net income as EMI for my car and I find it risky, I have colleagues who are paying 25% plus and don't think much about it.
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Old 7th September 2008, 22:16   #132
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Excellent thread....

I have a question, since we are talking long term like 6-7 years...

"Which car/muv/suv has a engine or lets say a whole package to be giving a relatively troublefree service spanning through 6-7 years and that too in Indian conditions - An american car, A german car, a jap car, a korean car or a Indian car. "(petrol or diesel)

Many bhpians have a wide variety of experiences in cars and it would be nice to read their thoughts on this one as this would immensly help understand a thing or two.

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 7th September 2008 at 22:34.
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Old 7th September 2008, 22:42   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
(not directed towards anyone in particular)

Suppose you're 40 years old, and you put off buying your new car for a few years, save 22L. Then, when you're 50, you do the same and save 33L. At age 60 you save 44L by delaying another car purchase. At age 70 (alas), you have a heart attack and die.

Furthermore, if you drive an average of 10,000 kilometers a year, from age 20 to age 70, you've driven 500,000 kilometers. Assuming an average speed (for a mix of city and highway driving) of 50 km/h (optimistic), you've spent 10,000 hours of your life driving your cars. Thats a year and two months (417 days) behind the wheel of your car. For many of us, that number will be much higher.

You lived your life always wondering what it would be like to drive that newer, faster, better car. And you always knew which were the newer, faster, better cars because you would read endlessly about them (magazines, websites) or talk about them with your friends. What you drove really mattered to you.

You're saved 99L in your bank account, plus accumulated interest. You're a rich man when you die. I hope you've figured out some way of transferring your hard earned gains to your new bank account in the afterlife!
That's probably an extreme, extreme step. For one, your present car needs to last 30 years and besides, regulations need to allow you to use that.
What the main point of this topic is that we need to balance the various + and - in terms of periodicity of buying new cars vs using the existing one a bit longer.
So, you could do this every 3, 5 , 7-8 years or 10 years etc. The calculation shows that holding onto your well maintained and reliable car for 7-8 years is a good deal. Besides, it may be hard for you to think so, but many of us 'love' our cars and it is as much pleasure using and doing upkeep of your existing car (which whenever I buy, is one at the higher end of my spectrum, so isn't the cheapest car that I could afford) as buying a new one frequently and having low attachment to it!

In other words, my motto is buy a car you like a lot and thats reliable and looks good, and then spend more time in it (the hours driving that are actually well spent and with many memories and not a drag as per your viewpoint). Heck, my Lancer is a better looking car after 5 years than most new cars available today - so why should I have a problem driving it. And if you buy your new car after 7-8 or 10 years than 5, you can buy a more expensive one if that's to your taste (with all the money you saved) :-)

BTW, its also possible to enjoy driving other cars and newer models by renting them out and driving over weekend and on some trips. This is common in US for example. I would say no amount of new car buying will give you the option to try out different vehicles as this. Options are opening up in India too on this account though it is a bit steep in terms of cost - but I could always use 10% of the money I save to drive maybe 5-10 new cars a year.

Cheers,

Last edited by lancer_rit : 7th September 2008 at 22:44.
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Old 7th September 2008, 22:57   #134
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Originally Posted by GTO - Touring View Post
I would not spend a rupee more than 8 - 10% on a cars EMI.
Really interesting. Long time back, I read one of your posts and was inspired:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Cars are one area of my life where I splurge.
I always thought 'splurge' means spending around 35-40%(I have seen people who do it). But considering your definition of splurge, I have exceeded the limit by a fair amount .

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknophobia View Post
What a "safe" amount is depends solely on your lifestyle and your desire to save. I am paying about 15% of my net income as EMI for my car and I find it risky, I have colleagues who are paying 25% plus and don't think much about it.
Thats right. It depends on spending habits and responsibilities. Bachelors can spend a little more I guess. As you get married, as you have kids, as your kids join school, college, your spending on cars goes on decreasing.
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Old 7th September 2008, 23:27   #135
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Why I decided to keep the Baleno:
- Has only run 30 k kms, plenty of life left in the car.
- Immensely pleasurable to drive,
- has all the bells and whistles I need (ok maybe I could have ABS)
- Invested a lot of time and thought in the car, then in dressing her up.
All this makes me smile every time I drive her
- Resale value makes me feel like crying!
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