The Vauxhall Wyvern Project

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Ok i'm sorry.Stanher What is the car you are helping him restore?

Uh, that's what I said- the car in question's a "Stanher"- Standard Herald!

Ok the sterring wheel along with the rod is know as the steering column.By the way didn't figure out how it broke by towing.Was the towing chain tied to that?

Yes, sorry, meant steering column.
No, the chain wasn't tied to it. It had already broken once before we bought the car. Someone must have tried hard to turn the steering when the front wheels were half-buried in mud. It was welded up by the scrapguys who first towed the car. Only to snap again! I will try and take some pics. of it to show you.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Stanher

Uh, that's what I said- the car in question's a "Stanher"- Standard Herald!

Ahh that's nice is that a mark I or a Mark II?

Yes, sorry, meant steering column.
No, the chain wasn't tied to it. It had already broken once before we bought the car. Someone must have tried hard to turn the steering when the front wheels were half-buried in mud. It was welded up by the scrapguys who first towed the car. Only to snap again! I will try and take some pics. of it to show you.

Ok that would be a good idea.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Ahh that's nice is that a mark I or a Mark II?

It's a 65 mk1. 'will also upload pics. of it in the relevant thread soon.

Now for the good news- the sample for the phospohric acid has finally arrived!!

But the bad news is I'm sick today and most likely not going out anywhere at all, but have requested suren181 to collect it on my behalf as his office is in the same building.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Stanher

It's a 65 mk1. 'will also upload pics. of it in the relevant thread soon.

Ok please do so.

Now for the good news- the sample for the phospohric acid has finally arrived!!

But the bad news is I'm sick today and most likely not going out anywhere at all, but have requested suren181 to collect it on my behalf as his office is in the same building.

Ahh thtas good news.Don't starin your self too much take some rest.Get well soon!

[IndrojitSircar]

Mr.Shyam what is the update?

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Mr.Shyam what is the update?

Whoops!! Sorry again for the "slumber"!! Blame it on my slightly hectic schedule this week!

Anyways, nothing too 'progressive', diff./rear axle and rear springs fiiiiinallyyy out, with quite a lot of effort!! Voila!
My mechanic said a puller had to be used to open up the rear drums, which he did bring but unfortunately broke while attempting it! He said he will try and get another one.
Anyway, the diff. seems to need a thorough overhaul- my man pointed out that the bearings inside are gone.









Aside, the phosphoric acid treatment sounds more complicated than I thought, requiring washing with caustic soda first to "clean" the whole surface then the phosphoric acid coat and then apply a "phosphate" coating! This is all going beyond my head, me having ditched sciences for arts quite some time ago! Plus the painter at this workshop I'm sure wouldn't do this stuff!

Do you btw, have any idea about applying phosphoric acid to treat rust??

But I have decided to carry on with the sandblasting, which I'll first get done on the leaf springs (as they are far easier to dismantle at the moment and can be made ready) at the location that DKG had told me about. Planned to go there tomorrow as I've no chance on weekdays! Fortunately for me they are open until 5pm even on Sunday.

IMPORTANT DOUBT: Is it allright to paint the rear springs in yellow zinc primer rather than red oxide, which is normally used (and appears to have been ued even earlier on these springs, from what I can make out)? I know that rubber-based anti-rust paint should not be used of course...but zinc primer should be as good as red oxide as regards texture/application? I feel it'll serve longer than RO hence the idea.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Stanher

Whoops!! Sorry again for the "slumber"!! Blame it on my slightly hectic schedule this week!

Anyways, nothing too 'progressive', diff./rear axle and rear springs fiiiiinallyyy out, with quite a lot of effort!! Voila!
My mechanic said a puller had to be used to open up the rear drums, which he did bring but unfortunately broke while attempting it! He said he will try and get another one.
Anyway, the diff. seems to need a thorough overhaul- my man pointed out that the bearings inside are gone.

Congratulations for opening the differential.What is the condition of the rear axle rods ?Well i think you should give the differential an overhaul and change the required bearings but don't leave it open for too long.Try and get the parts and assemble the differential again.

Aside, the phosphoric acid treatment sounds more complicated than I thought, requiring washing with caustic soda first to "clean" the whole surface then the phosphoric acid coat and then apply a "phosphate" coating! This is all going beyond my head, me having ditched sciences for arts quite some time ago! Plus the painter at this workshop I'm sure wouldn't do this stuff!

Do you btw, have any idea about applying phosphoric acid to treat rust??

But I have decided to carry on with the sandblasting, which I'll first get done on the leaf springs (as they are far easier to dismantle at the moment and can be made ready) at the location that DKG had told me about. Planned to go there tomorrow as I've no chance on weekdays! Fortunately for me they are open until 5pm even on Sunday.

well cleaning with caustic soda is a good option before doing the sand blasting or you could just scrape the old paint and then do the cleaing with caustic soda which would be a better idea.Yes getting the rear springs done is a good idea to see how it comes out and then oaint it.

IMPORTANT DOUBT: Is it allright to paint the rear springs in yellow zinc primer rather than red oxide, which is normally used (and appears to have been ued even earlier on these springs, from what I can make out)? I know that rubber-based anti-rust paint should not be used of course...but zinc primer should be as good as red oxide as regards texture/application? I feel it'll serve longer than RO hence the idea.

Well both are a good option but red oxide is normally used by many.See both will have their effects for a certain time and after that you could have to redo it again.Well if you think zinc primer would be better than red oxide then go for that.At the end of the day remember one thing and that is it should satisfy you wheather or not it satisfies others.For zinc primer you have to have a very clean surface other wise it shows up.Rubber based anti rust paint is used for the exhaust normally to prevent rusting and because the rubber paint can take high temperatures and not get burnt.


One more suggestion-I would say get the doors and fenders opend and start the body work on them.and by the time your suspension should be done and fitted back so that you could start the work on the rest of the body like the floors,running board area,and other place in the body.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

What is the condition of the rear axle rods?

Sorry for my ignorance again, but what do you mean by axle rods?? Do you mean the shafts?

well cleaning with caustic soda is a good option before doing the sand blasting or you could just scrape the old paint and then do the cleaing with caustic soda which would be a better idea.Yes getting the rear springs done is a good idea to see how it comes out and then paint it.

Thanks. Incidentally, my man has scrubbed off most of the ages of muck from the diff./axle, yet to drain out the old oil.




BTW,found this neat little instruction on the rear of the diff.



He's tried again to open the rear drums using a puller at the lathe machine guy's but that broke too! So had to go with him and buy stuff to fabricate a new puller.

Also reg. the leaf springs, turns out that one is missing from each set (total 6+6) so he intends to put replacements from Landmaster springs, they being similar.
Also he had a different opinion about getting the leaf springs clean- I ended up not getting them sandblasted last sunday, as he insisted that there is no need, since the guys who set them would first clean them in acid, then heat them and then hammer them/set them straight with a machine.
But fortunately or unfortunately, he was told that none of this would be done when he went to handover the springs today!

So he decided to go by my way of taking them for sandblasting! Then have them set straight.

Rubber based anti rust paint is used for the exhaust normally to prevent rusting and because the rubber paint can take high temperatures and not get burnt.

Huh?! This is news to me! I was always advised that rubber-based anti-rust is NOT suitable for exhaust parts, says so even on the container of some of the products! Because the immense heat from the exhausts causes it to 'burn' and smoke itself out!

One more suggestion-I would say get the doors and fenders opend and start the body work on them.and by the time your suspension should be done and fitted back so that you could start the work on the rest of the body like the floors,running board area,and other place in the body.

As I said, all this will follow after the suspension is done up and car is on all four wheels. The bodywork guys dont want to touch it until then. Also I feel its better that way, as they would have better access to the floors, interiors etc. with the doors out. Besides, there are currently parts stored inside the car (including engine parts of the car itself) that we don't want to disturb at present, lest anything gets misplaced.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Stanher

Sorry for my ignorance again, but what do you mean by axle rods?? Do you mean the shafts?

Yes i do.Actually those are called as the axels but to be more clear i mentioned rods.Do get those taken out once the drums are opened because water might have gone in to it and could have resulted in corrosion.

He's tried again to open the rear drums using a puller at the lathe machine guy's but that broke too! So had to go with him and buy stuff to fabricate a new puller.

Did you try the way i said by using a bolt?

Also reg. the leaf springs, turns out that one is missing from each set (total 6+6) so he intends to put replacements from Landmaster springs, they being similar.
Also he had a different opinion about getting the leaf springs clean- I ended up not getting them sandblasted last sunday, as he insisted that there is no need, since the guys who set them would first clean them in acid, then heat them and then hammer them/set them straight with a machine.
But fortunately or unfortunately, he was told that none of this would be done when he went to handover the springs today!

Why don't you try and find out were leaf springs are repaired and ask them to make to two which are missing uinstead of you changing the springs completely?

So he decided to go by my way of taking them for sandblasting! Then have them set straight.

Huh?! This is news to me! I was always advised that rubber-based anti-rust is NOT suitable for exhaust parts, says so even on the container of some of the products! Because the immense heat from the exhausts causes it to 'burn' and smoke itself out!

Well then i guess you need to visit a big paint shop because Berger Paints has a paint for high temperature.These are also used in Chimneys.We had used this on the Jaguar Mark VII.This is doesn't get burnt with heat.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Did you try the way i said by using a bolt?

Although I didnt get to see the pullers used, I understand they do have a bolt, which is fastened to the drum/axle. I guess it was that which got broken. Anyways, they would have fabricated the new puller by now, lets see if they succeed this time.

Why don't you try and find out were leaf springs are repaired and ask them to make to two which are missing uinstead of you changing the springs completely?

No no, I DO NOT intend to replace the ENTIRE sets of springs completely! That wouldn't be advisable either, as my man told me that Amby/Landy ones wouldn't fit on this car, being slightly smaller in size than these springs.
As my man said, he would replace only the ones that are missing (1 on each side I was told), which are the topmost/smallest ones. He would try taking ones that came on Amby/Landmaster springs should they match in size, else fabricate new ones. I reckon the springs were reduced in number to give the car a softer ride.

Well then i guess you need to visit a big paint shop because Berger Paints has a paint for high temperature.These are also used in Chimneys.We had used this on the Jaguar Mark VII.This is doesn't get burnt with heat.

I will check out one of their stores here, thanks for the info.

[Pune_Bike]

Shyam does it look like there is threaded hole next to the guys hand right above this thimb, mayby another on the opposite side, if so try screwing a bolt in and as you keep turning the drum moves out, seen that on some cars, probably a 1/4 inch screw. if tis is indeed screws then one thing to remember is keep turning them equally and if there is gunk in them blow air ad some WD40 before you start. Also on a side note would you use 90W oil in the chamber, as i have seen that use for Hypoid, Indrajit, the above two may be whats on the Bentley mark 6 as well if I remember.

[bluestraveller]

Originally Posted by Stanher

Sorry for my ignorance again, but what do you mean by axle rods?? Do you mean the shafts?

Thanks. Incidentally, my man has scrubbed off most of the ages of muck from the diff./axle, yet to drain out the old oil.




BTW,found this neat little instruction on the rear of the diff.


He's tried again to open the rear drums using a puller at the lathe machine guy's but that broke too! So had to go with him and buy stuff to fabricate a new puller.

Also reg. the leaf springs, turns out that one is missing from each set (total 6+6) so he intends to put replacements from Landmaster springs, they being similar.
Also he had a different opinion about getting the leaf springs clean- I ended up not getting them sandblasted last sunday, as he insisted that there is no need, since the guys who set them would first clean them in acid, then heat them and then hammer them/set them straight with a machine.
But fortunately or unfortunately, he was told that none of this would be done when he went to handover the springs today!

So he decided to go by my way of taking them for sandblasting! Then have them set straight.

Huh?! This is news to me! I was always advised that rubber-based anti-rust is NOT suitable for exhaust parts, says so even on the container of some of the products! Because the immense heat from the exhausts causes it to 'burn' and smoke itself out!

As I said, all this will follow after the suspension is done up and car is on all four wheels. The bodywork guys dont want to touch it until then. Also I feel its better that way, as they would have better access to the floors, interiors etc. with the doors out. Besides, there are currently parts stored inside the car (including engine parts of the car itself) that we don't want to disturb at present, lest anything gets misplaced.

Shyam,

These pictures from the Cassell Book for the Wyvern may be helpful. Let me know if you want any more pictures as we move along.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by bluestraveller

Shyam,

These pictures from the Cassell Book for the Wyvern may be helpful. Let me know if you want any more pictures as we move along.

Shyam you would get a good idea with this p[ost about the brakes.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by bluestraveller

Shyam,

These pictures from the Cassell Book for the Wyvern may be helpful. Let me know if you want any more pictures as we move along.

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Shyam you would get a good idea with this p[ost about the brakes.

Thanks santhosh!
Indrojit, I do, but I'm afraid it is still not clear to me on how to open the rear drum. bluestraveller's Wyvern doesn't seem to have had the 2 screws shown in one of these pics. Yet, the drums are still on!
Anyways, my man says they would've farbicated the puller by now so maybe by tomorrow the rear drums would've been opened. Also plan to give the springs for sandblasting by tomorrow atleast!

[Stanher]

Well, back with some progress!

Rear springs were given for sandblasting yesterday, at the place that DKG had guided me to. The guy there said we could get down anything to be sandblasted (but NEVER body-panels btw!)
He insisted that we have to first dismantle the springs separately though, which would be done later, as we have to anyways go there again to give the diff/axle for sandblasting too, most likely tomorrow.

And here's a novel way to carry a huge pair of leaf springs when you don't have convenient enough transport!






'didn't have too much of a problem with it. The rear axle/diff. would have to be carried by car though.

Continuing on which, no luck in opening the right rear drum again! 'had fabricated another puller, which was the 4th one this time, to open it......only to break it again!!

So, my mech. had another ruse now, to drill out the 4 bolts retaining the backplate to the axle flange (arrowed) on either side, and separate the 2. Then work on removing the drum.
And much to my surprise (and relief), when I went to check today, I saw that this has worked- the backplate on one side has been successfully separated and even the drum opened up! The axle shaft too has come out separate! hew:

Now if the same thing happens in case of the other drum, then nothing like it! Only the diff. would have to be opened up next and the whole external assembly (except maybe the backplates and rear axle housing) given for sandblasting.











Coming to the rear drum, it doesn't look as bad as the front ones did, all the brake parts seem intact. But wouldn't necessarily work right away, needs a complete overhauling too. Like especially replacing the wheel cylinder kit. Incidentally, it amazes me how such a huge car could have such narrow/thin brake-liners/shoes!!