Project Landmaster

[jagadeesh.b]

Hi All,

This will be my first serious blog on my latest project. This Saturday when I went to buy a differential for my mark-II in the second hand market along with my uncle, the guy who was selling it told me that he picked up a Landmaster which is clean & suggested that I buy it as I already have a Mark-I & a Mark-II. My uncle & I went immediately & saw the car. On seeing it we found that it was the same car that my uncle he once owned it & brought it from a Bhopal. So immediately we struck the deal & gave the cash & asked my Brother-In-Law to get the jeep to get the Car Towed to my uncle’s place where we will start the restoration.

Brief Description of the Car when I picked it up: The care came with a Diesel engine in it & had 2 petrol engines one a side valve & other Overhead Valve. So we struck the deal without the diesel engine & took the side Valve one. Left the overhead Valve as we already have 4 engine lying at home.

Interiors: The Car had 3 original switches 3 were missing. Seats are in very good condition. Steering Wheel is not original. Original smiths clocks do not work. Has the original door handles, window winder. Window garnish is stainless steel.

Exteriors: There is little rust here & there but the whole body needs tapping. Headlights are complete same with the tail lights. The Sides strips on the front mudguards are there but are missing on the doors same is the case with Landmaster Monograms. Trafficators are half i.e.., the lift arm that comer out are gone but the internal coils are there.

Things to Find: Steering Wheel, Trafficators, Metal Strips on the front doors, Landmaster monograms, Missing 3 switches in the dashboard.

Help Needed: Can you all suggest me which engine to put Diesel or Petrol. My uncle, brothers & cousins suggest that I put a Diesel engine & make it a regular user. I am confused what to do. The car is clean with very little rust & solid. Frankly this is the first car with petrol engine that I am seeing.

I am posting the pictures midway while we were stripping. I was so excited that I forgot to take pictures when we saw the car & while towing. The care is completely stripped as of today.

Mod team note: Removing [Font] tags, please avoid Copy Paste from external font editors. Also do a Preview before Submitting. Thanks

[KPS]

Originally Posted by jagadeesh.b

Hi All,
Can you all suggest me which engine to put Diesel or Petrol. My uncle, brothers & cousins suggest that I put a Diesel engine & make it a regular user. I am confused what to do. The car is clean with very little rust & solid. Frankly this is the first car with petrol engine that I am seeing.

Would recommend that you retain originality with the side valve petrol engine. The value of this car rises considerably with originality. These cars with original engine are getting rare to find these days.


Congrats on this buy and all the very best.

Cheers

KPS

[asdfvinay]

Congrats on your new buy. Good luck in restoring the car. It is good to see another landy being restored. Body shell seems to be in very good shape. Do you mind sharing the price you got this for?

The engine decision is purely on what you want. The original engine definitely increases the cars value multifold and you will be proud to say that it is a stock car. I myself have a landy which runs on Isuzu though cosmetically it is stock. This was dieselized before we bought it and we did not bother converting it as we already had other ambys with original engine and we felt it is very difficult to maintain them as daily drives. The car is my dads daily drive even today and we love it the way it is practial. For our other ambys, a lot more time is required on the maintanance than in driving.

Most difficult part to source might be the original steering wheel. Procuring cosmetic parts has become very difficult in Hyderabad. Have been trying to source the steering wheel, tail lights and dash switches for a long time with no result, :(.

[PAVAN KADAM]

I know this car

Well buddy, Let me congratulate you again on this Historic car.

All the best for the restoration, wish i had an uncle like yours who lets out his back yard for a nephew's restoration.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by asdfvinay

Congrats on your new buy. Good luck in restoring the car. It is good to see another landy being restored. Body shell seems to be in very good shape. Do you mind sharing the price you got this for?

The engine decision is purely on what you want. The original engine definitely increases the cars value multifold and you will be proud to say that it is a stock car. I myself have a landy which runs on Isuzu though cosmetically it is stock. This was dieselized before we bought it and we did not bother converting it as we already had other ambys with original engine and we felt it is very difficult to maintain them as daily drives. The car is my dads daily drive even today and we love it the way it is practial. For our other ambys, a lot more time is required on the maintanance than in driving.

Most difficult part to source might be the original steering wheel. Procuring cosmetic parts has become very difficult in Hyderabad. Have been trying to source the steering wheel, tail lights and dash switches for a long time with no result, :(.

It is surprising to hear that you are unable to use OHV petrol ambassadors as daily drives.There are people in Kerala who still use petrol ambassadors regularly
also all the above items you mentioned are available Genuine NOS stuff,but the problem may be the premium pricing!!
one of my friends recently purchased a boxed pair of Original NOS LUCAS(Glass) Tail lamp assy(including bulbs,holders) for Rs.6500/-.of course that is a rare item today

[jagadeesh.b]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

I know this car

Well buddy, Let me congratulate you again on this Historic car.

All the best for the restoration, wish i had an uncle like yours who lets out his back yard for a nephew's restoration.

Hey Pavan, You are always welcome to use the space for restorations...

[asdfvinay]

Originally Posted by ajay99

It is surprising to hear that you are unable to use OHV petrol ambassadors as daily drives.There are people in Kerala who still use petrol ambassadors regularly
also all the above items you mentioned are available Genuine NOS stuff,but the problem may be the premium pricing!!
one of my friends recently purchased a boxed pair of Original NOS LUCAS(Glass) Tail lamp assy(including bulbs,holders) for Rs.6500/-.of course that is a rare item today

My statement is not about the capability of a OHV petrol amby. We used these same ambys as daily drives long back. But now with the parts becoming very difficult to procure, I can not imagine using these for around 40k kms a year which the landy does now. This one covers more distance than all our other cars together.

Most younger mechanics in the garages can not handle these older cars with proper care, and that one or two mechanics who we want to handle our cars are too busy. They can fix 3 or 4 newer cars in the time they spend to fix a classic as these need more of their time and attention. So they will do it slowly and take time to fix issues. Then to source the parts, we have to personally spend days sourcing the parts which is the biggest issue for us.

With the new cars, i can list out all the issues and still collect the car on the same or next day, which is not possible when we want to maintain a classic in stock condition. I'm not sure if the dynamo will be able to charge the battery at nights in todays start/stop traffic.

State Automobiles, Bharath Automobiles, Jubille which are one of the oldest automobile shops and have supplied parts of the ambassadors for decades, now straight away say "not available" the moment i say landmaster/mark 1.

I specifically mentioned Hyderabad, since this is the place where I hunt for the parts. I heard that Pune/Mumbai are better places for the parts.

When I meant petrol engine, I also meant making the car a stock one i.e., non tinted glasses, bench seats, dynamo, brake reservoir under the driver etc which I think will be difficult to use on a daily basis. I said that only because of the difficulty I faced in maintaining our Mark 1 and 2. But now our landy and Mark 2 run on Isuze diesel and the Mark 1 runs on Isuzu petrol. I find it much much easier to maintain these.

It is really good know the parts I mentioned are still available as NOS. I could not find any new or used lenses(in usable condition) here. It will be really helpful if you can help me procure these. Externally only tail lights are missing on my car, and a complete set at Rs.6500 is a steal deal I'd say. I'll take the tail light set, dash switches if available as NOS. Steering wheel also, if it is say 10k or little more than that.

You can see my landy and my post below, this was in Mar 2011.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...ml#post2271261 (Landmaster And Ambassador Picture Gallery)

and in Feb 2012, i still dont have tail lights for the car,
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2696773 (Vintage & Classic car parts info)

The guy mentioned in the second link quoted 5k for used lenses alone. Later he said he has NOS set for Rs.6k(only lens and rims) and when I went to pickup, he shows pathetically faded lenses and says they have become like that because they were stored all these years along with other stuff.

Finally I'm getting a used lens and rim set(like 75% new)(no bulbs, no holders) from New Zealand for around 5k. I should get them in another 10days. But I will still take the NOS set if available. The car is currently at the painter, and nothing like having a NOS tail lamps on it.

[samsag12]

I am glued to this thread, its nice that you went for a differential and came back with a full Landy that too a previously owned one. Its a very rare case. I am still searching for a Fiat which was once part of the family.
Anyways look forward to the restoration pics.

[harit]

Originally Posted by jagadeesh.b

Hi All,

This will be my first serious blog on my latest project....Help Needed: Can you all suggest me which engine to put Diesel or Petrol. My uncle, brothers & cousins suggest that I put a Diesel engine & make it a regular user. I am confused what to do.

If you are going to use this car regularly, put in a diesel engine or a OHV petrol engine. BUT
keep the sidevalve original engine, get all ancillaries in place, and if you wish you can always put the original engine. These side valve engines do require regular maintainance, but a car with original engine has more value and will be more "pure". For comfort you could also put tinted glasses if in regular use, but keep a set of original white glasses, packed properly to avoid scratches.
And take care of the colour combination and interiors, should be subdued, not loud. Therefore no metallic paints.
Good luck and keep updating.

Cheers harit

[jagadeesh.b]

Hi All,

KPS, asdfvinay, samsag12 & harit, thanks for the suggestions. Samsag12 best of luck for your search & may you find the car fast.

Here is it the latest update. I have decided to put the original petrol engine & go for a 2 tone color. I am thinking of going for a pearl white top & a dark maroon color combination. Considering that I put a diesel engine, to increase the stopping effectiveness I need to put brake booster, bigger brake drums, then for a comfortable ride put bucket seats, then AC, go for 2 piece propeller shaft, and the list goes on. Further in future if I have to restore it back then I will have to start from square one & also carefully store all the parts taken from the car. The most important factor for the petrol engine is that the RC still has a Petrol entry & does have the Diesel entry, now RTA Does not allow engine change from petrol to Diesel. Considering these challenges I have decided to go for the original petrol engine.

I could not do any work on the car from Sunday as one of our distance relative passed away & we had to travel. Today got up early in the morning went to my Uncle’s place then we both opened the bonnet, Petrol Tank, Radiator, Dickey Lid, Wiring Dashboard, Part of Bumpers & the Gearbox. Unfortunately I could not take any pictures today as I was getting late to office & did not have my camera ( I could have used the phone though), I will post the pictures tomorrow.

Radiator is original but needs lot of work on it. It has lot of damaged core on it.

The Bumper main bolts opened easily but the once on the side were really rust & jammed no amount of trying using WD-40 or brake oil & tapping worked , so we have decided to open by gas cutter. With regards to the gearbox, the foundation nuts & the cross members opened easily however the propeller shaft nuts were jammed. Sprayed WD40 & put some brake oil & will try to open it again tomorrow. Hope fully it should come off.

I also opened the spark plugs of the engine & put break oil in it. I would top it up with Diesel tomorrow so that it is freed. In the mean time I found that the engine needs a new water pump, a water Elbow (aluminum one) on the top & a fuel pump. Can someone tell me what sort to Fuel pump comes on this model, is it a mechanical or an electric one? Does anyone have a spare one? I would also need the original Aluminum Bell Crank for the engine it has an Iron one, modified to fit the matador diesel engine.

[asdfvinay]

Good that you have choosen to go with petrol. Since there is no diesel entry in the RC, there is no point going for it.

The fuel pump should be mechanical. My 68 amby had a mechanical pump and I think electric pump was introduced much later, though I'm not sure.

The pump in my car, if I remember properly was mounted on the right side of the engine block(when we are standing in front of the car) a little above the sump. Check that area and you should be able to make it. The area has a hole of around 1.5 or 2 inches. When the pump is fixed, a liver on the pump goes inside this hole and will be operated by the engine.

Are you going for the OHV engine or side valve one? which one was the original in your car? You mentioned you already have some engines, did you check if the fuel pump/water pump from any of them suit?

[jagadeesh.b]

Originally Posted by asdfvinay

Good that you have choosen to go with petrol. Since there is no diesel entry in the RC, there is no point going for it.

The fuel pump should be mechanical. My 68 amby had a mechanical pump and I think electric pump was introduced much later, though I'm not sure.

The pump in my car, if I remember properly was mounted on the right side of the engine block(when we are standing in front of the car) a little above the sump. Check that area and you should be able to make it. The area has a hole of around 1.5 or 2 inches. When the pump is fixed, a liver on the pump goes inside this hole and will be operated by the engine.

Are you going for the OHV engine or side valve one? which one was the original in your car? You mentioned you already have some engines, did you check if the fuel pump/water pump from any of them suit?

Vinay, I am going with the Side Valve Petrol Engine. Fuel Pump location as you described is not there, that is why I have asked the experts. May be Dr. Anjan can help us on this.

[karlosdeville]

The original fuel pump is an electric SU unit that fits in the boot in a bracket behind the spare wheel (visible in your photo of the engine in the boot - mounted above the wheel arch). Morris cars have had these since the 1930s or 40s at least. They are hopeless, you are better of using a mechanical pump or an electronic UCAL unit.

The biggest grouse and reason for most sidevalve engines being replaced was the water pump. It is always prone to corrosion of the water jackets/failure, and I dont think it is repairable. Getting new ones is near impossible. But never say never.

In my car I am using an OHV unit from an Amby. The mounting points are identical, so whenever in the future an original side valve is to be fitted, it is bolt on. Naturally that will not be the case with a diesel.

Don't get too crazy on originality for nitty gritty - use an electronic fuel pump, an alternator and enjoy a peaceful motoring experience. Cosmetics of course you can retain. The car has good level and most fittings in place anyways. Good luck!

[ajay99]

if the BELL Housing (aluminium) has been changed then you have to really search to get one.I know of instances of landmaster/hindustan 14owners having retained the Original sidevalve engines,but lacks the bell housing without which you cannot fit the original engine

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by asdfvinay

The fuel pump should be mechanical. My 68 amby had a mechanical pump and I think electric pump was introduced much later, though I'm not sure.

Slight Correction here about the pumps - It was other way round

Both Landmasters in all models and Ambys till 1966 (I may be off by a year here) came with electrical pumps. The Mechanical pumps were there definitely from 1968 (may be in some models of 1967 as well)

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram