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Old 12th February 2013, 10:03   #1
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BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Dear all - I have just picked up my next FIAT, it is BMC8903, a quintessential "Parsi owned Dadar Parsi Colony (DPC)" car. I used to see this car for many years in the colony (DPC is home for me too). It was used very sedately by a very dignified and genteel Parsi lady. As my father had a 1960 Select (it was BMC9291), I always wanted a BMC registered car. Now it is mine.

The original owners wanted the car to go to a "Parsi household only". Their wish is now fulfilled. I have promised them that it will stay with me and my family forever!

This car was always green in color although the original book says grey. Almost everything is original and barring the fuel gage, everything works. I intend to use it for some time as it is. This type of use also has a unique charm of its own.

As I am not much of a photographer, I missed out clicking photographs which I will try and do shortly.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Aditya : 21st July 2014 at 12:15. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old 12th February 2013, 10:15   #2
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re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Congratulations BD. Getting a car whose registration number matches your dad's car does make it special.
The car has indeed found a good home/family to stay.
Please do us all a favour and treat us with some pictures.
Cheers again,
Deepak

Last edited by starter : 12th February 2013 at 10:17.
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Old 12th February 2013, 18:33   #3
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Dear all - My initial contact with BMC8903:
This car was always in Dadar Parsi Colony ever since I have known it and seen it. If I remember correctly, the very first time I saw it was somewhere in 1975. It was light green then also. As the years went by and I continued to see it sparingly, I noticed that there was no change in the car! It remained exactly the same for years. It had a Select grille and two fog lights mounted in the front, one slightly above the other, one yellow, the other white.

Then, somewhere around 15 years ago, I saw it standing outside my building. I approached the lady sitting in it and introduced myself in archtypical "Parsi Bawaji Gujarati" style, gave my home phone number (I did not have a mobile then) and asked her whether she would be interested in selling it to me. She very poiltely refused. I left it at that.

Next, somewhere around 10 years ago, I saw it standing inside their building compound with a Parsi gentleman cleaning something inside the engine compartment. I approached the gentleman, again introduced myself in archtypical "Parsi Bawaji Gujarati" style, this time gave him mine and my better half's mobile numbers and asked him whether he would be interested in selling it to me, knowing fully well what the answer would be. He also very poiltely refused. I again left it at that. I distinctly remember that I had seen at that time, the battery hold down clamp was corroded. I did not mention this to him!

More time went by, we went on with our lives, I saw it less and less than before. I believe that it was safely parked inside their closed garage, whereas their other "modern" cars stood outside! Whenever I used to walk by that building, I would always look at the garage, find its shutter firmly closed and move on. On the very rare occasions that I saw it, I always admired its "simplicity and timelessness". Gradually, I almost gave up, thinking that they would never sell it to anybody, let alone sell it to me!

The buying experience:
Fast forward to my birthday 05 February of 2013. I got a call from my wife saying that "a certain lady has called me and said that she wants to sell the car". Oh my God, is this for real? A birthday present? I hoped so and prayed! So, with a fluttering heart, I returned her call and told her that I was in Pune (I work there) and will be in Mumbai only on Sunday the 10th and would 1000 hrs be OK to come over? So 10 o'clock it was!

So, my son Cyrus and I enter the building compound at 0958. There it was, standing in its usual place, but with a slightly different green color and without those fog lights! OK, so what? We went upstairs and met the owners. It was an extremely pleasant experience, going to a typical Parsi household, the period furniture, the dog, the superb mint tea, the nice conversation et al! Well, then the history came out. The car was purchased by this gentleman's father from the original owner in 1964. It is with the same family ever since. Then the father gifted to to his son who was the owner till 2 days back! I saw the original books of 1960, one dark blue, the other cream. The registration, taxes, insurance, mechanical passing, everything is absolutely uptodate. We then went for a test drive. On the way, the gentleman told us that the painter spoilt the original shade of green color which made them very upset, they will never forgive him till kingdom come!

Open the doors and the typical "Select Aroma" greets you! Open the "full" glass slowly with the door still open. Close the door with two gentle nudges, that's all it takes, "click click", and heaven help anybody who bangs them, after all I am also a Bawa! There are separate keys for the ignition, the Sipea Antifurto steering lock, the petrol tank cap (which is still the round original one), the long key for the "dicky" lock and the "Godrej" lock. The dicky still has the push button system in place. The side signal lights are the fish tails. The dicky hold up is original, once up, once down. The number plates are the original embossed ones with the big numbers. I started it with half a flick of the key, slowly engaged first gear and gingerly drove it out of the compound. The feel was "oh so quiet", that it was back to the good old days! Gearshifting with the original thin black knob was a quietly satisfying affair (it needs some adjustment though), second to third accompanied by the ever present "tack"! I slowly took a round inside the colony, relishing the feel of the original thin and smooth steering wheel and parked it back in the same spot. Now for the interesting part!

We went upstairs where I gave them my background, due to which they understood and appreciated how I would keep their car. "I want to give it to a good Parsi home, where I can see it" was what the lady said, not once but at least 5 times. We were discussing the price to arrive at a conclusion when the gentleman brought out what for me is and will always remain a treasure, the original Italian workshop manual, a british book on the FIAT 1100 and the original owner's manual, all three in immaculate condition! That was the magical moment when I clinched the deal. I said "I am taking the car Sir, I have the cheque, here it is"!. It was something that I will never forget, because now I have two exactly same Italian workshop manuals, the personal one of my mentor and teacher the late Mr.Framroze Nariman which was given to him by Mr.Alassandrio of FIAT in Turin in 1970 and one of this car! I told them that it would be proper to take delivery after the cheque was honored but they said "Behram, take the car, its yours"! It was extermely nice of them for which I will be ever grateful. Then the lady told the quintessential parsi household servant to go and get a garland from Dadar TT circle ("nakaparthi haar lai aav" is what we say in Gujarati), we got to hear stories of how they had travelled from Bombay all the way to Ooty in this car many times (till the servant came back), we got to eat Parsi sweets, they came down with us, put the garland on the car and gave the car to us. We waved to them as I drove away! Wow, that's some Parsi experience! I guess that's what makes us Bawajis so unique. Where else can you get such hospitality? such simplicity? such kindness? Thank you forever, Dear Sir and Dear Lady, your baby is in good hands! It is now parked at my house in Dadar Parsi Colony where it will remain, forever! Whew, that was one fantastic buying experience!

I firmly believe in one thing. "Do good to people, irrespective of what they do to you, then you will always win". I have seen a demonstration of it now.

I am back in Pune now (ever present work, you know), so I am already missing having a leisurely drive in it with my better half! I will try and get photographs by next week. Well, what next? I'll have to fix a lot of things mechanically to keep it going properly but I will keep it same as it is, at least for now! I need to get it transferred also. I think Karl and Rony will be happy at last (ok guys, no black wheels, at least for now)!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th February 2013, 13:34   #4
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Dear all - I have taken some photographs, which I have now managed to resize to suit the memory content, attaching for your enjoyment, please. After these photographs were taken, I have got the eyesore sun film removed. The fan in the front is also removed. By the way, the complete exhaust system is made of stainless steel, it was fitted in 1967.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!-img2013021400187.jpg

BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!-img2013021400188.jpg

BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!-img2013021400189.jpg

BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!-img2013021400190.jpg
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BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!-img2013021400191.jpg  


Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 17th February 2013 at 13:41. Reason: add info
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Old 21st February 2013, 09:44   #5
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Vintage Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 21st February 2013, 10:43   #6
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Dear Sir,

Heartiest congratulations on the newest addition to your family! Reading your experience with the Select owners was most touching. Good to know that this car has found you. Or rather, that you have found each other

Wish you many many happy miles with her!

Cheers,
Rahul
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Old 21st February 2013, 12:37   #7
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Heartiest congratulations Behram Sir.

The Dear Lady & Sir have no idea that their car has gone to the BEST possible FIAT lover that lives under this sky. That shade is still not bad for all the painter has screwed up.

The keyhole on the driver door, is it original?
Those GREEN "rounds" on the corners of rear number plate look odd.
That exhaust pipe extension needs your attention.

Raab rakha.
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Old 21st February 2013, 13:12   #8
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Many congrats on your purchase sir. To find something like this, in such original condition can be called a miracle indeed.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:03   #9
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Congratulations !

And thank you for these snaps. My dad had one of these between '75 to '77. But there are no snaps of it. I just showed him these !! He says our car was of a bluish-green colour. Would that be the original paint that you refer to?

I was too young to recall details, except that it was a troublesome car and dad got frustrated with it and sold it off. I learnt later that it used to do duty as a cab earlier and hence wasn't cared for.

Last edited by shuvc : 21st February 2013 at 14:08.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:21   #10
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariesonu View Post
Heartiest congratulations Behram Sir. The Dear Lady & Sir have no idea that their car has gone to the BEST possible FIAT lover that lives under this sky. That shade is still not bad for all the painter has screwed up. The keyhole on the driver door, is it original? Those GREEN "rounds" on the corners of rear number plate look odd. That exhaust pipe extension needs your attention.
Dear all - thanks for your wonderful comments. I don't like this shade of green color at all, I will change it during restoration. So as far as the outside appearance is concerned, I will leave it as it is for the time being except for polishing etc.

Dear Sonu - to reply to your queries, the keyhole on the door is not original, it is for the "extra Godrej lock" that people used to fit at that time. The green round fasteners of the rear number plate will go shortly, they look positively ugly. This tail pipe shape has a history to it, it is almost impossible to see it on any car today. This is the original shape of the pipe with which these cars used to come from the factory in 1960. My father's car BMC9291 had it too (he sold that car in 1977). This car has got the pipe of the same shape and tapered end cut fabricated out of stainless steel. I believe this pipe is on this car from 1967. In all the years that I used to see this car in DPC, it has always been with this tail pipe only. As it is of stainless steel, nothing will ever happen to it, it will last forever. There was a guy called "Sidik" in Nana Chowk in South Mumbai who used to make complete stainless steel exhaust systems for Fiat cars in those days. Either this pipe is from Italy or it is from Sidik. It cannot be from anywhere else. If it is from Sidik, I will see a "Sidik" mark on it (just like BMC9291) when I service the car and clean the underfloor.

As far as the mechanicals are concerned, the condition is as follows:

The engine has never been opened. It has the original 5 hole siamesed port head. It still runs the original starter motor, although the dynamo is replaced by an alternator. I will change its mounting by fitting an S1 cast iron bracket, right now it has the aftermarket sheet metal bracket due to which the alternator is fitting skew to the belt line. The water pump is original. The metallic fan is original, with the center nut mounting. The carburettor is original. The Magneti Marelli distributor is replaced by Lucas TVS distributor, I am OK with it as it provides complete reliability. The intake and exhaust manifolds are of course original. Oil pressure guage is fitted. Oil pressure builds up to 3 kg/cm2 instantly and remains there. I need to set the tappets, change the spark plugs, points and condenser and set the ignition timing. Even now without doing anything, water is coming out of the tailpipe. The transmission / propeller shaft / rear axle / brakes are all original. The clutch has been replaced once though. Two tires are new Ceat Safety Drive, two are something else, so I'll have to scout around for two new Ceat Safety Drives from somewhere.

The wiring is in a shambles. The electronic fuel pump is fitted on the LHS fender support due to which fuel pipe routing is haphazard. I'll relocate the electronic fuel pump inside the spare wheel well and reroute the fuel pipes properly. Connectors etc need to be fitted properly.

The seat upholstery is in green color which looks terrible. I'll have to change it. I hope I can find the original seats below this upholstery.

Otherwise, everything else is fine. I have submitted the documents for transfer. I want to take it for a long drive outside Mumbai, mostly to our Udwada fire temple, once I get the documents in hand.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - I have already recieved some feelers on whether I would want to sell it! Sorry Sir, it will never be sold! .

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 21st February 2013 at 14:22. Reason: add info
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Old 21st February 2013, 20:29   #11
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - I have just picked up my next FIAT, it is BMC8903, a quintessential "Parsi owned Dadar Parsi Colony (DPC)" car. I used to see this car for many years in the colony (DPC is home for me too). It was used very sedately by a very dignified and genteel Parsi lady. As my fsther had a 1960 Select (it was BMC9291), I always wanted a BMC registered car. Now it is mine.
Sir, hearty congrats on your 'newest' acquisition! Needless to say the car has come to a good home!

'came across this thread this morning but posting only now (was browsing thru my mobile from work and its sometimes cumbersome to type from it!)

You have indeed got a lovely car! Am really happy for you and can understand your immense joy! All the more rare to get one with the period custom numberplates! Worth their weight in gold!

The car will look all the more smashing when the OHH REE GEE NAL hubcaps are found to give it a complete look! 'hope you get them soon although I imagine very rare by now.

Also please fit the bootlid FIAT 1100 badge by all means on this car, when you find one!

The bonnet FIAT badge also needs to have the spray paint cleaned off and repainted in the original red background.

Glad you got the sunfilms off. Next are those padmini reverse lights!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - I have taken some photographs, which I have now managed to resize to suit the memory content, attaching for your enjoyment, please. After these photographs were taken, I have got the eyesore sun film removed. The fan in the front is also removed. By the way, the complete exhaust system is made of stainless steel, it was fitted in 1967.

This is the original shape of the pipe with which these cars used to come from the factory in 1960. My father's car BMC9291 had it too (he sold that car in 1977). This car has got the pipe of the same shape and tapered end cut fabricated out of stainless steel. I believe this pipe is on this car from 1967.
The pipe looks interesting, I recall having seen one of a similar shape on another Fiat 1100 (also in a photo I think) but just cant remember off the top of my head the details for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
PS - I have already recieved some feelers on whether I would want to sell it! Sorry Sir, it will never be sold! .
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Old 21st February 2013, 21:23   #12
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Congratulations Behram and Cyrus!

Very happy to see such a wonderful OH REE G NAL car in the right hands. She has tremendous potential for restoration to Concours and am glad to hear that she will be restored towards that direction. Also the period number and plates do add to the vow factor. Am already visualizing the car post restoration with white walls (on silver wheels, of course!) and OE hub caps (without holes) and OE side trim that you have for the car.
I personally know the owners and the love with which they have maintained this car. I'm sure they are comforted to see the car gone to another Bawa and that too in their vicinity.
Wish you both a very Happy Ownership experience and am sure this one will will be a regular at our future FCCCI meets/drives from now on.

Cheers!
Rony
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Old 22nd February 2013, 12:10   #13
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Dear Dr. Behram and Cyrus,

Congratulation on an awesome get. This is one sweet and cute car. Please give us more pictures. Wow I am so happy to see this.

Just one question, how you are going to get ceat safety drive tyres? Special order?

Also would you be keeping her cosmetically original or will give your signature touch? Very curious to know of that .

Will you be visitng Bangalore, please let me or Bangalore Fiat club know, I have some goodies for your Select .
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Old 25th February 2013, 10:44   #14
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Mr. Dhabhar, congratulations on acquiring the Fiat Select! Looking forward to seeing another great restoration. As you rightly mentioned in your first post, it is better to use the car for some time before starting the restoration. Please do post some pictures of the interiors, engine bay and dicky. Wishing you many happy (s)miles in the car!

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.
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Old 25th February 2013, 15:02   #15
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Re: BMC 8903 - A 1960 Fiat Select - Here I go again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post
Please do post some pictures of the interiors, engine bay and dicky. Wishing you many happy (s)miles in the car!
Dear Rahul and all - I get only one day in a week to work on my car, that is Sunday. So yesterday, I finished the following jobs on the car, working continuously between 9.30 AM to 7.30PM. I have not taken pictures, will take and upload shortly.

1. Electronic fuel pump moved from inside the engine compartment to inside the spare wheel well, same as in all my other cars. Flexible fuel lines in the engine compartment were routed completely haphazardly, they were actually touching the spark plug wires which carry 25000 volts, all removed and thrown out. Reverted to production layout with additional collar made and fitted on the fuel filter mounting to cylinder head to route the fuel delivery line to the carburettor.
2. Engine oil leaking from filter cartridge body top seal, engine oil found aged, oil and filter cartridge assembly replaced.
3. Oil bath air cleaner assembly was dirty and clogged, cleaned and refitted. Piece of cloth was used in place of rubber insulator, replaced with a new insulator.
4. Maruti Omni fuel filter added before the electronic fuel pump inside the spare wheel well, same as in all my other cars.
5. Wiring harness laid out from front to back to actuate the electronic fuel pump in its new location.
6. Petrol tank loosened and retightened, to be able to replace all the flexible fuel lines, tank to filter, filter to pump, pump to main line.
7. Checked engine valve clearances. All eight were completely tight, reset to production specification.
8. Intake manifold breather pipe completely choked, replaced with a new part. Engine breathing much better.
8. Engine valve cover packing was torn, replaced.
9. Engine breather flexible pipes were aged and torn, replaced.
10. Mechanical fuel pump was loose and its packing was torn, engine oil was leaking out at this location, replaced packing and tightened.
11. Fan belt was bottoming its pulley, replaced. S1 alternator bracket still to be fitted.
12. Spark intensity observed extremely poor, checked ignition coil output voltage, it was not even 25% of requirement, oid ignition coil was malfunctioning, new ignition coil fitted.
13. Centrifugal advance mechanism of the distributor was not working to specification, replaced distributor assembly complete with contact breaker, condenser, rotor and insulator assembly. Distributor was not fitted in correct shaft orientation, spark plug wires position was off by 90 degrees which was completely haphazard, removed the base and reoriented the assembly as per production.
14. Distributor cap was cracked, replaced. Push type terminals were used inside screw-on cap, it was a complete nonsense, removed and replaced.
15. High tension wires were not original, they were with carbon core, there were of four different makes of wire for four cylinders, replaced by assembly line original wires with stainless steel connectors with dimpled spring locks.
16. As a resultant of ignition coil malfunction, spark plugs had got overheated and were not functioning properly. All spark plugs replaced.
17. Wiring harness inside the engine compartment was completelly berserk (yes, berserk!). At least 10 dead wires were identified and removed. Harness temporarily reoriented and taped. Ignition coil and distributor low tension connections rectified with properly soldered eye connectors.
18. Battery was relatively new but was not fitted and connected properly. Battery connectors cleaned and refitted, needs to be done properly once again.
19. New battery hold down bracket to be fabricated and fitted.
20. Spare wheel hardboard cover was loose. Bolt threads were worn out, bolt replaced, tightened properly.
21. Cross brace wheel spanner found rusted and not of 19mm size as required. Replaced.
22. Jack fulcrums lubricated and fitted inside the dicky.
23. Air intake horn and big flexible hose on the LH side of the engine removed and kept safely to be used during restoration.
24. Car cleaned inside to out. All old and rusted parts lying inside discarded.

Car is running much better than before.

Next work:
1. Completely overhaul electrical system. It is still very bad.
2. Replace carburettor assembly. There is minor leakage.
3. Overhaul radiator assembly complete. Fit temperature guage adaptor in the radiator tank.
4. Overhaul front suspension complete. Original spiders and new shock absorbers to be fitted.
5. Overhaul steering gear. There is slight grabbing, seems to be due to inefficient lubrication.
6. Overhaul front suspension complete. Original spiders and new shock absorbers to be fitted.
7. Overhaul rear suspension complete. Spring bushes have perished, to be replaced. New shock absorbers to be fitted.
8. Overhaul brake system complete. Procure and fit all Brakes India parts.
9. New clutch assembly to be fitted with new original linkages.
9. Accelerator pedal and rod assembly to be replaced. Original parts are very difficult to procure.
10. Pressure wash, service and grease the car properly. Transmission and axle oils to be replaced.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 25th February 2013 at 15:31. Reason: add info
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