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Old 20th March 2013, 09:50   #16
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

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Originally Posted by Drkannant View Post
Hi Manish, i got the roof lights from the US along with my steering wheel, hubcaps and dash board millecento emblem. As i said earlier I am yet receive them, its with my brother -in-law there in the US. Should get them by this month end, he is sending it across with a friend of his who is coming down to India. I have posted the pictures of them .
Hi Doc,

Really nice to see you taking so many efforts to build up the family car.

I can see you have bought new hubcaps (which look lovely), and even though they are for a slightly later model, don't worry, as long as they fit.

The dash board badge also is a very rare item, and I can see you have ordered the part for the left hand drive car, so it will not fit properly on your car. No worries, you can always place it somewhere in your room for rememberances.

These are presumably expensive items, do check with the seniors here on the forum before ordering them. There are many helpful guys here to guide us. I can say focus on the fundamentals like body work and paint, besides the mechanicals, the cosmetics will keep rolling in. What is important is you should enjoy driving your car, and reliably!

All the best.

PS - I can assume the car was run as a taxi initially, and in many parts of South India I have noticed that the regn series was shared with private and commercial vehicles, only the colour changed.

Does the RC book mention taxi anywhere? What was the first registration number?
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:00   #17
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I too noticed the millicento script to be opposite or the picture is just flipped. Either way the badge is a rare find.
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:20   #18
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Hi Doc ,

I saw your pics , the steering did you order one for the 500 or the 1100 103E ,the grey one .i see the pic is of the 500 steering wheel and the site also has the original grey one .if its the wrong one i suggest you get it exchanged before you get it back to india .


Prashanth
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:43   #19
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

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Originally Posted by Drkannant View Post
Dear Behram, thanks for the information. will not alter anything on rims will use as it is. Just today came to know about you from a friend who is following the BHP threads and who happen to read my thread. He said that u once held a senior post in the Fiat and then moved over to Mahindra. He also told me about your vast automobile knowledge and the extraordinary driving skills u have. I should be very lucky to have you looking upon on my restoration and guiding me through it. Thanks Mr. Behram
Dear Drkannant - thank you for your gracious comments, it feels nice! I am just a normal guy doing my job, but I happen to be very clear about what needs to be done with all my cars (yours included), therefore I can remote guide you sitting 2000 kms away. I have seen your work in progress photographs. There's lots that you should be doing differently to finally get the perfect job that I want you to get. For this I need time to sit and type out a very long post for each nuance of your car. Let me see how to find the time.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 20th March 2013, 11:01   #20
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

MDN6494 gets her own thread at last. Though we have discussed much on my thread. IMHO you should go for back for RED paint as the car is well recognized by that shade.
The hubcaps & steering look delicious but Mille steering was much thinner than the one you are getting.
Here is well known example of Mille with fresh RED coat:
Name:  Photo 101210 22 22 57.jpg
Views: 2435
Size:  136.3 KB
Name:  Photo 101210 22 23 18.jpg
Views: 2339
Size:  119.4 KB

Raab rakha.
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Old 20th March 2013, 17:25   #21
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
Thanks, for posting pictures. I think the roof light is of a later model, super select and delight. I too have this but was told that a flat rectangular roof light came on elegent and selects, and I am not aware of what came on the millicentos or did they ever came with roof light.
Hi Manish, I am not very sure as you, that this roof light belongs to 1955 millecento, but I am very sure our car had similar light on both the sides at the rear seat.
I very well remember playing with it by turning it on and off while going to school and getting scolded for playing with it. So millecento did have rear roof lights.
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Old 20th March 2013, 22:42   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Hi Doc,

Really nice to see you taking so many efforts to build up the family car.

I can see you have bought new hubcaps (which look lovely), and even though they are for a slightly later model, don't worry, as long as they fit.

The dash board badge also is a very rare item, and I can see you have ordered the part for the left hand drive car, so it will not fit properly on your car. No worries, you can always place it somewhere in your room for rememberances.

These are presumably expensive items, do check with the seniors here on the forum before ordering them. There are many helpful guys here to guide us. I can say focus on the fundamentals like body work and paint, besides the mechanicals, the cosmetics will keep rolling in. What is important is you should enjoy driving your car, and reliably!

All the best.

PS - I can assume the car was run as a taxi initially, and in many parts of South India I have noticed that the regn series was shared with private and commercial vehicles, only the colour changed.

Does the RC book mention taxi anywhere? What was the first registration number?
Hi karl, thanks for your response, i came across the millecento badge when i was looking for something else on the US ebay, so bought it instantly as i knew it was a rare find. It never crossed my mind that it belonged to the left hand drive car. It was only later when i saw a left hand drive car with a similar badge on the dash i realized that i had bought the reverse badge. But I think we can fix it onto to dash board by making new holes, let me see what can be done once i get the emblem.

Regarding the car engine, i was told by the mechanic that the engine was recently worked on, so it may not require much work. I will still check on it.
As far as the gear box is concerned, the 1st gear was slipping, so it completely opened up and some major parts changed, serviced and fixed back. The mechanic should start the engine work soon.

Regarding the wheel and brakes, I have completely changed it to TVS Girling type. I have changed the brake drum, carrier plate, brake shoes, master cylinder. All four shocks are new. I have also changed the dynoma to the latest Alternater type. In-fact i did talk about all this to Rony, who was also pretty Ok about it.

I will keep you all informed about the mechanic work and do need your guidance to go through it.

I Checked the R.C. book, it is not mentioned as taxi anywhere. The R.C. book that i have is the 2nd book, as the 1st book is all written up. The previous registration number was WBD 9170. Does that Reg. No. ring any bells to any of our Calcutta friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Drkannant - thank you for your gracious comments, it feels nice! I am just a normal guy doing my job, but I happen to be very clear about what needs to be done with all my cars (yours included), therefore I can remote guide you sitting 2000 kms away. I have seen your work in progress photographs. There's lots that you should be doing differently to finally get the perfect job that I want you to get. For this I need time to sit and type out a very long post for each nuance of your car. Let me see how to find the time.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks a lot Behram, please take your time but let me know stage wise, so that it may save me time from redoing what i already did.

My car now has been scrapped to bare metal and has got the oil primer coating. The tinkering work should start in a couple of days. I am correcting the head light holder to the original small head lights. I am looking out for the head light rings to get the right diameter. I was told that it was 150 cm, is it right behram?

Please let me know what tinkering changes should be done, so that i can ask my tinker to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Hi Doc ,

I saw your pics , the steering did you order one for the 500 or the 1100 103E ,the grey one .i see the pic is of the 500 steering wheel and the site also has the original grey one .if its the wrong one i suggest you get it exchanged before you get it back to india .


Prashanth
Hi Prashanth. I ordered the 1100 103 sedan type, that picture is no more on the US ebay. There are 2 other types as you said that of the 500 and 1100 103 E


Its too late to exchange it if its the wrong one, as it is already on its way to India.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 21st March 2013 at 09:23. Reason: Consecutive posts
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Old 20th March 2013, 23:23   #23
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Dear Drkannant - it is good that you have decided to change over to the alternator. You will need to buy and use a brand new carburettor operated Maruti 800 alternator having specification as "Lucas TVS SA15". It will fit exactly on the fiat engine, provided your engine has the bottom boss built into the casting with an 11 mm diameter machined hole. If this boss is not there, the alternator cannot be fitted at all, so first please confirm with me by posting a clear picture of the cylinder block area with the dynamo removed, as also the dynamo itself showing how it was mounted. Do not waste money on buying a new alternator if you cannot fit it. If fitment is possible (boss with drilled hole in casting is there), then you must necessarily use the Premier Padmini S1 original alternator mounting bracket. This is a cast bracket and brace set, engineered for this application. Aftermarket sheet metal fabricated bracket will not work, the alternator will not sit in line with the pulleys of the crankshaft and the water pump. I await the photographs.

You need to dismantle the car down to bare sheet metal. Please take the sub-frame off the body so that and photograph it so that I can guide you properly on its condition. Same goes for all other mechanical parts as well. Photograph all parts and post them for my comments.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 20th March 2013, 23:44   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariesonu View Post
MDN6494 gets her own thread at last. Though we have discussed much on my thread. IMHO you should go for back for RED paint as the car is well recognized by that shade.
The hubcaps & steering look delicious but Mille steering was much thinner than the one you are getting.
Here is well known example of Mille with fresh RED coat:
Attachment 1064009
Attachment 1064010

Raab rakha.
Hi Sonu, you bet finally i got my own thread, you are right Sonu I am retaining the red color, as my dad was very fond of this color. Since i am restoring the car in his memory I want to respect his sentimental values.

Thanks for the Pictures, the car looks great. Where is this car from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Drkannant - it is good that you have decided to change over to the alternator. You will need to buy and use a brand new carburettor operated Maruti 800 alternator having specification as "Lucas TVS SA15". It will fit exactly on the fiat engine, provided your engine has the bottom boss built into the casting with an 11 mm diameter machined hole. If this boss is not there, the alternator cannot be fitted at all, so first please confirm with me by posting a clear picture of the cylinder block area with the dynamo removed, as also the dynamo itself showing how it was mounted. Do not waste money on buying a new alternator if you cannot fit it. If fitment is possible (boss with drilled hole in casting is there), then you must necessarily use the Premier Padmini S1 original alternator mounting bracket. This is a cast bracket and brace set, engineered for this application. Aftermarket sheet metal fabricated bracket will not work, the alternator will not sit in line with the pulleys of the crankshaft and the water pump. I await the photographs.

You need to dismantle the car down to bare sheet metal. Please take the sub-frame off the body so that and photograph it so that I can guide you properly on its condition. Same goes for all other mechanical parts as well. Photograph all parts and post them for my comments.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Hi Behram, the alternator is already fitted . I have uploaded the pictures. Have a look at it and tell me if i need to correct anything.

I don't know what you mean by sub-frame, please explain where u get that (i am sorry, I am a doctor, all these terms are Greek & Latin to me)

I will post you pictures of the opened engine and the fixed gear box and will tell you what are the parts that was changed.

Thank you so much.
Attached Thumbnails
Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father-dsc_1808.jpg  

Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father-dsc_1816.jpg  


Last edited by karlosdeville : 21st March 2013 at 09:25. Reason: Consecutive posts
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Old 25th March 2013, 12:21   #25
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Classic Car Section. Thanks for sharing!
Hi this is to inform you that i have not been receiving any follow up threads from any of the other fellow BHP members.

I would like to know if there is any problem from my side or is my thread been blocked.

Please let me know as my car is in the crucial stage of restoration. I badly need the advise and guidance of the fellow members.

Thank you.

Last edited by aah78 : 21st March 2014 at 00:06. Reason: Quote fixed.
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Old 25th March 2013, 19:30   #26
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Doc, your thread is safe and active. Please do post in your queries. BD Sir and his fans are there to help you.
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Old 26th March 2013, 09:24   #27
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Dear Drkannant - sorry for not responding for some days. For me, working on "my" (yours included) fiat cars is a sort of relaxation from the "daily work" that I do, but "daily work" does not leave me time to pursue anything else, so please excuse. This is also the reason that I make it a point to work on my BMC8903 every Sunday.

Alternator fitment - looking at your engine pictures, I am not able to figure out how the alternator is fitted. Your engine cylinder block seems to be original as it has aluminium spacers behind the engine mounting insulators (these were eliminated from 1960 onwards), but this type of cylinder block did not have the long hole to fix the dynamo as it was fixed on a bracket against the block face. Therefore, please lift the engine and post photographs from the sump side. Alternator must be mounted perfectly otherwise it will give you lots of problems. Also, please post photographs from the distributor side so that I can give comments.

Water pump, pulley and fan - although the water pump pulley is very old, it may not be original. The plastic fan is of course aftermarket. Please throw it out, it will rob the engine of almost 5BHP (I know, I had checked on engine dynamometer). It will also be completely out of balance. Please procure and fit Padmini sheet metal pulley and yellow 4 bladed fan from Excel Auto, as was used in the assembly line. Please use a new spacer with 3 holes in it. Your engine has the spacer in front of the fan but it has 2 holes. Check whether your water pump has 2+3 fan mounting holes, if it has only 2 then you will have to put a new water pump. Your current water pump is of Padmini. If you replace the pump, please also replace the bottom hose connector and remove the thermostat bypass. This ensures reliability, one less point to leak! Please remember that the yellow fan for the diesel car looks almost the same but is flatter when seen from the side. Do not use diesel car's fan, its working characteristics are different. Please fit new top and bottom hose pipes also, new ones are still available.

Inlet manifold breather - there will be a small hole below the carburettor on the inlet manifold with M5*0.8 threads. You need to procure and fit a manifold breather pipe in it. This pipe is missing. Check that the hole in the manifold is clear. If this arrangement is not fitted, the engine will not idle properly as it will run rich.

Exhaust manifold studs at exhaust pipe end - these studs are of size M8*1.25. These are missing. Please buy and fit new ones, these are easily available. Please use new brass nuts for mounting the exhaust pipe.

Carburettor overflow tray - drain pipe is missing, it may have fallen away. Please replace if available. Tray is twisted, please straighten.

Please clean the engine completely from outside with kerosene and dry it properly before fitting, it is dirty now. Sub-frame is the chassis of the car. As it extends only upto half the car length, it is known as sub-frame.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:30   #28
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Drkannant - sorry for not responding for some days. For me, working on "my" (yours included) fiat cars is a sort of relaxation from the "daily work" that I do, but "daily work" does not leave me time to pursue anything else, so please excuse. This is also the reason that I make it a point to work on my BMC8903 every Sunday.

Alternator fitment - looking at your engine pictures, I am not able to figure out how the alternator is fitted. Your engine cylinder block seems to be original as it has aluminium spacers behind the engine mounting insulators (these were eliminated from 1960 onwards), but this type of cylinder block did not have the long hole to fix the dynamo as it was fixed on a bracket against the block face. Therefore, please lift the engine and post photographs from the sump side. Alternator must be mounted perfectly otherwise it will give you lots of problems. Also, please post photographs from the distributor side so that I can give comments.

Water pump, pulley and fan - although the water pump pulley is very old, it may not be original. The plastic fan is of course aftermarket. Please throw it out, it will rob the engine of almost 5BHP (I know, I had checked on engine dynamometer). It will also be completely out of balance. Please procure and fit Padmini sheet metal pulley and yellow 4 bladed fan from Excel Auto, as was used in the assembly line. Please use a new spacer with 3 holes in it. Your engine has the spacer in front of the fan but it has 2 holes. Check whether your water pump has 2+3 fan mounting holes, if it has only 2 then you will have to put a new water pump. Your current water pump is of Padmini. If you replace the pump, please also replace the bottom hose connector and remove the thermostat bypass. This ensures reliability, one less point to leak! Please remember that the yellow fan for the diesel car looks almost the same but is flatter when seen from the side. Do not use diesel car's fan, its working characteristics are different. Please fit new top and bottom hose pipes also, new ones are still available.

Inlet manifold breather - there will be a small hole below the carburettor on the inlet manifold with M5*0.8 threads. You need to procure and fit a manifold breather pipe in it. This pipe is missing. Check that the hole in the manifold is clear. If this arrangement is not fitted, the engine will not idle properly as it will run rich.

Exhaust manifold studs at exhaust pipe end - these studs are of size M8*1.25. These are missing. Please buy and fit new ones, these are easily available. Please use new brass nuts for mounting the exhaust pipe.

Carburettor overflow tray - drain pipe is missing, it may have fallen away. Please replace if available. Tray is twisted, please straighten.

Please clean the engine completely from outside with kerosene and dry it properly before fitting, it is dirty now. Sub-frame is the chassis of the car. As it extends only upto half the car length, it is known as sub-frame.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Behram, Thanks a lot for your feedback sir. I will follow every bit of your advice . I will soon picture the sump of my engine and post it for you.

I am changing the fan blade, I will replace it with the one you suggested.

I am not very sure about the details of the water pump, inlet manifold breather and exhaust manifold studs. I Will check them out and post you the details.

Regarding the engine exterior, the mechanic will be cleaning it and painting it before he mounts it.

Thanks a ton once again.
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Old 26th March 2013, 21:43   #29
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Default Re: Restoration of MDN 6494 ('55 Millecento) - In remembrance of my Father

Hi everybody,

I am getting wonderful advice and feedback from Mr. Behram about the engine works. He is undoubtedly an authority in Fiat, Hats off to him!

My car just got scrapped to bare metal and got its oil primer coating. The car is in the tinkering garage for further tinkering works. I have uploaded few pictures for your advice and guidance.

The side indicator opening, the amp meter opening, the 2nd hole from left in the switch panel on the dash board will be blanked. The battery bracket will be shifted to the original right side. The front indicator opening will be reduced in size.
The metal sheet over the bottom of the boot, both the left front and rear door will be changed. Piece of metal sheet will be changed over the boot hinges, left rear wheel hood. both the front and rear windscreen metal frames will be cut and changed. The front right and left wheel hood arch will be tinkered evenly. The head light fenders will be tinkered to fit the original head lights.

Please let me know if u find anything else that I should correct or missing out.

My biggest hurdle now is to find the original headlight rings for the tinker to correct the fenders. Is there any other way to correct the head lights without the original rings? Please advice. Thank you .
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Old 28th March 2013, 00:30   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkannant View Post
Hi everybody,

I am getting wonderful advice and feedback from Mr. Behram about the engine works. He is undoubtedly an authority in Fiat, Hats off to him!

My car just got scrapped to bare metal and got its oil primer coating. The car is in the tinkering garage for further tinkering works. I have uploaded few pictures for your advice and guidance.

The side indicator opening, the amp meter opening, the 2nd hole from left in the switch panel on the dash board will be blanked. The battery bracket will be shifted to the original right side. The front indicator opening will be reduced in size.
The metal sheet over the bottom of the boot, both the left front and rear door will be changed. Piece of metal sheet will be changed over the boot hinges, left rear wheel hood. both the front and rear windscreen metal frames will be cut and changed. The front right and left wheel hood arch will be tinkered evenly. The head light fenders will be tinkered to fit the original head lights.

Please let me know if u find anything else that I should correct or missing out.

My biggest hurdle now is to find the original headlight rings for the tinker to correct the fenders. Is there any other way to correct the head lights without the original rings? Please advice. Thank you .
Would you really want to cut and change the windscreen metal frames ? in my opinion do try to repair them if possible , as i am afraid changing them may result in incorrect sizes and water seepage etc . Also do you have a new set of rubber beedings ?? i heard that a place in coimbatore may still have them , i too need a set and will get in touch with you on the details .

As regards to the headlight do you see any earlier welds over the mudguard ? Maybe i can send you an exact card paper template of the ring from my car and you could use that as reference and later on some rings in MS can be fabricated .Also i have a friend who has one original mudguard and i could request him to send out measurements /pictures .

Thanks

prashanth
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