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Old 15th September 2013, 09:13   #16
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

56landmaster Hi.

Let's agree to disagree.

having used side valve engines in landmasters and other cars for decades now, I reiterate, there is no flaw in the design. I still, in current traffic conditions, use side valve engined cars which are over fifty years old, original heads and blocks, without any heating problems. if you overhaul an engine correctly, it must, and does, perform as it should.

causes for overheating are several, not always engine related, but the poor engine is almost always blamed, quite like a husband who gets blamed at home for everything that goes wrong, including the part time maid who does not show up.

Harit,

Your ambassador, with an overhead valve engine , must be looked into for overheating causes and I am willing to help sort out the problem. I used mark 3's and later cars with air conditioners without problems for years.
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Old 15th September 2013, 22:52   #17
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

Some details about the 1476 cc side valve engine on this link here:

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au...ris_oxford.htm

I have also posted about this link on the Landmaster and Ambassador Picture Gallery at post # 939 :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...ml#post3238273 (Landmaster And Ambassador Picture Gallery)
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Old 16th September 2013, 01:47   #18
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

sidvar

You already have another 'modern classic' running a petrol engine and an air conditioner. You can afford to buy the side-valve and put it in storage for future use, so do it - you wont come across such an offer very often. Buy, recondition, but do not mount/use.

I dont think you will have an issue with using an OHV with an airconditioner, underpowered as it may seem to most others. Especially since you're quite familiar with the 14 as your daily drive with the matador engine and the current braking setup. The OHV will be lighter than the Matador engine anyway, and the refinement is worth the small additional running cost which I am sure you do not have an issue with.

My 2c - plonk in the ohv after a good overhaul and run it with suitable cooling upgrades, use bulldogji's points for reference. Your a/c doesnt have to be the most powerful around - a functional a/c which makes the inside temp more bearable will suit your requirements, I'm sure. When it gets too hot for the 14, use the other classic with the superking a/c

Last edited by Steeroid : 16th September 2013 at 01:49.
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Old 16th September 2013, 10:18   #19
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

The Ambassador's BMC 1500 OHV petrol engine is capable of running sanden 507 compressor easily. I have used a Mark-4 Amby with 507compressor and National A/c Evaporator, and power was adequate and the cooling good. Just make sure the a/c compressor cuts off at idle.
About the overheating of the engine, it can be solved by installing the OE side-tank 2-core radiators which HM installs in the Ambassadors nowadays. This radiator is very efficient in controlling the temperature when compared to the conventional radiators assembled by radiator shops. I can vouch for these since I have experienced a great reduction in temperature of my Isuzu Diesel Amby just by changing over to these. Apart from these, there is the external A/c Condensor fan available to further cut down the engine temperature
It is purely your choice whether you wish to maintain the originality or go for these upgrades (practicality).
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Old 17th September 2013, 21:32   #20
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidvar View Post
A gentleman is now offering me an original petrol side valve engine for the car.
Hi,
Until and unless it is at extortionate rates, first buy the engine, then decide how you want to use it.

Do up the engine. The day you stop using it as your daily driver, plonk in the original.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 17th September 2013, 22:35   #21
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

So Bulldogji, what's your verdict on sidevalve and A/C?

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
56landmaster Hi.

Let's agree to disagree.

Last edited by aah78 : 17th September 2013 at 23:31.
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Old 18th September 2013, 08:36   #22
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

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Originally Posted by sidvar View Post
So Bulldogji, what's your verdict on sidevalve and A/C?
Hi Sidvar,

What I would do is run the cars as is!

If however you want to go back to the original petrol engine, overhaul the side valve engine the correct way, no compromises, run it in the car for at least 500 miles, then if all is well, fit an AC unit compatible.

I would ensure the water passages are cleared of all debris, alter the water pump pulley , place the AC cooling coil UNDER the car, NOT in front of the radiator so as not to obstruct air flow, replace the radiator, replace the cooling fluid with an alcohol based coolant fit a Bosch auxiliary fan in front with a thermostat control to automatically switch the fan on to low speed at 84degrees Celsius and high speed at 90degrees . driving in correct gear, not allowing the engine to labour , will help. Correct graTde of engine oil is a must, oil also contributing to cooling. remove the thermostat if fitted,and finally fit a windshield washer assembly with the nozzles in front of the radiator When it gets hot, squirt some water via the nozzles. this helps cool the radiator fins resulting in better heat exchange and consequently better cooling..

before you fit the AC ensure that your doors are well fitted , firewall insulated to restrict engine heat from entering the passenger area, ditto with the flooring, heat lon or thermocol between the roof and the headliner also is a must. make the passenger compartment as insulated/sealed as possible to prevent cool air from escaping, thus not overloading the AC.
remember though , this engine was a bit under powered, so some compromises become a must. use the AC selectively, drive in lower gears and hope for the best.

if all fails, the old diesel is always with you!!

Last edited by Bulldogji : 18th September 2013 at 08:57.
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Old 18th September 2013, 23:15   #23
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

A classic car at the end of the day is simply a car. It comes down to what you want OP in that car.

If you want to be that guy who enjoys his classic without worrying about an old engine + exorbitant running costs associated with said engines upkeep, then the only route would be that nice diesel engine, outfitted with all the modern creature comforts you can find.

If you want to be that guy who enjoys his classic with attention to detail, then get the Sidevalve, restore it to original condition, and leave the cars HVAC as it was; without it.

If you to be that guy who enjoys his classic with attention to detail, and has an unlimited budget then, restore the sidevalve, pull out the matador (keep it as a spare), plonk a ac unit in, plumb the interior with necessary fittings, and go to town. If something comes up, you have a spare engine and you can recycle the AC system.


I speak from personally being in that position 6 years ago when it came time to restore the 56 Landy, I was pondering whether to go with modern creature comforts or classic originality. Seeing I don`t really use the vehicle on long drives or any tasking drives for that matter or had an unlimited restoration budget, i went with originality. Keep it as similar to the original condition is possible. Plus my car has AC....40 KMPH, windows all down nice powerful AC lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
sidvar

You already have another 'modern classic' running a petrol engine and an air conditioner. You can afford to buy the side-valve and put it in storage for future use, so do it - you wont come across such an offer very often. Buy, recondition, but do not mount/use.

I dont think you will have an issue with using an OHV with an airconditioner, underpowered as it may seem to most others. Especially since you're quite familiar with the 14 as your daily drive with the matador engine and the current braking setup. The OHV will be lighter than the Matador engine anyway, and the refinement is worth the small additional running cost which I am sure you do not have an issue with.

My 2c - plonk in the ohv after a good overhaul and run it with suitable cooling upgrades, use bulldogji's points for reference. Your a/c doesnt have to be the most powerful around - a functional a/c which makes the inside temp more bearable will suit your requirements, I'm sure. When it gets too hot for the 14, use the other classic with the superking a/c
I hope you are referring to an OHV diesel LOL. With the price of petrol on the rise, lack of good KMPL from any petrol Ambassdor engine, and the added load of an AC unit I would hate to be that person footing the bill on that car at the gas pump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Hi Sidvar,

What I would do is run the cars as is!

If however you want to go back to the original petrol engine, overhaul the side valve engine the correct way, no compromises, run it in the car for at least 500 miles, then if all is well, fit an AC unit compatible.

I would ensure the water passages are cleared of all debris, alter the water pump pulley , place the AC cooling coil UNDER the car, NOT in front of the radiator so as not to obstruct air flow, replace the radiator, replace the cooling fluid with an alcohol based coolant fit a Bosch auxiliary fan in front with a thermostat control to automatically switch the fan on to low speed at 84degrees Celsius and high speed at 90degrees . driving in correct gear, not allowing the engine to labour , will help. Correct graTde of engine oil is a must, oil also contributing to cooling. remove the thermostat if fitted,and finally fit a windshield washer assembly with the nozzles in front of the radiator When it gets hot, squirt some water via the nozzles. this helps cool the radiator fins resulting in better heat exchange and consequently better cooling..

before you fit the AC ensure that your doors are well fitted , firewall insulated to restrict engine heat from entering the passenger area, ditto with the flooring, heat lon or thermocol between the roof and the headliner also is a must. make the passenger compartment as insulated/sealed as possible to prevent cool air from escaping, thus not overloading the AC.
remember though , this engine was a bit under powered, so some compromises become a must. use the AC selectively, drive in lower gears and hope for the best.

if all fails, the old diesel is always with you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
56landmaster Hi.

Let's agree to disagree.

having used side valve engines in landmasters and other cars for decades now, I reiterate, there is no flaw in the design. I still, in current traffic conditions, use side valve engined cars which are over fifty years old, original heads and blocks, without any heating problems. if you overhaul an engine correctly, it must, and does, perform as it should.

causes for overheating are several, not always engine related, but the poor engine is almost always blamed, quite like a husband who gets blamed at home for everything that goes wrong, including the part time maid who does not show up.

Harit,

Your ambassador, with an overhead valve engine , must be looked into for overheating causes and I am willing to help sort out the problem. I used mark 3's and later cars with air conditioners without problems for years.
Bulldogji I don`t doubt that you have probably got a leg up on me in regards to usage and general time spent around the sidevalve. However when I read those two posts I see a contradiction. Now I do get that yes disagree to agree, BUT when an engine needs a beefed up auxiliary fan, low engine speed at all times, ac unit mounted not near the radiator fan or else the engine overheats......

It hurts to sa ty this, as I myself am an owner of a sidevalve landmaster, but the sidevalve engine is simply not well suited, and thus a design flaw on HMs part when bringing the landy to market. It happens to all the automakers. In this case, an enginehats design to inherently run hot. At the time it was the best on the market.

Fun fact: if someone came across an old Heater unit that could mount to the 1476 engine, then essentially you can drop the temps a couple degrees by leaving it on all the time, and running the ducts out of the cabin.
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Old 18th September 2013, 23:55   #24
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

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Originally Posted by 56landmaster View Post
I hope you are referring to an OHV diesel LOL. With the price of petrol on the rise, lack of good KMPL from any petrol Ambassdor engine, and the added load of an AC unit I would hate to be that person footing the bill on that car at the gas pump.
I think the OP and I know exactly what is being referred to, and that will do for the purposes of his query.

You may continue to lol.
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Old 19th September 2013, 14:06   #25
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

Hi Steeroid,

In my mind there is no contradiction.

Most of the older generation of cars did require certain additions to take on an air conditioning system. IF an AC is to be fitted, from experience I suggested what I found worked well.

If you did not fit an AC, the engines, side or overhead valved, never gave me any overheating problems, I continue to use both, in current traffic conditions, without any loss of water.

Trust this clarifies.
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Old 19th September 2013, 15:34   #26
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

The Morris Oxford series II and Cowley both have the duct on the top of the bonnet. The Oxford has a heater and the Cowley just has a fresh air duct. The Cowley also has non-opening front 1/4 windows, a 1200cc (underbored 1489 ohv engine) and no engine temperature gauge!
It seems silly to me that HM left out the engine temperature gauge in a country with some really hot climates! The MO Oxford never had a temperature gauge.

The MO Oxford has a non-pressurised cooling system and the series II/III Oxford runs at 4lb. Later Oxfords have a 7lb pressure cap. The stronger pressure caps would help avoid water boiling away.
Does the Landmaster or 14 have a 4lb pressure radiator cap?
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:17   #27
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I think the OP and I know exactly what is being referred to, and that will do for the purposes of his query.

You may continue to lol.
I didn`t know that LOL smiley was going to strike a nerve. I apologize if i offended you.
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Old 19th September 2013, 21:16   #28
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

Steeroid,

My apologies. I meant to address 56landmaster

Whatever way we all use these cars, one thing common is that we care for them and keep them running, hopefully will pass them on to the next generation.

Opinions will differ, originality versus practicality!

Last edited by Bulldogji : 19th September 2013 at 21:17.
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Old 25th July 2014, 18:08   #29
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

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Originally Posted by sidvar View Post
I have a 1953 H14 in perfect running condition, although with a diesel Matador engine. I use the car to to go to work, it has air conditioning (a must in Madras) and is problem free, though noisy! A gentleman is now offering me an original petrol side valve engine for the car.

So have you finally plonked the original petrol side valve engine into your car?

Last edited by karlosdeville : 27th July 2014 at 11:52. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 27th July 2014, 11:12   #30
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Default Re: '53 Hindustan 14 - Engine advice needed

To all those who posted replies here, many thanks. Before I could take a decision, I had to move back to Delhi from Chennai.

Brought the H14 back by truck. It suffered a dent in the process, nothing serious, but thought I would use the opportunity to get its overall paint attended to. Turns out I have quite a bit of rust and pitting. Anyone know a good shop in Delhi where I can get this attended to?
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