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Old 20th October 2014, 12:32   #121
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Congrats Karl, outcome is super! So is the first phase of restoration done?

You will be driving in this Herald to South India rite? Isn't the oil consumption issue a serious concern?
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Old 20th October 2014, 13:54   #122
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Congrats Karl, outcome is super! So is the first phase of restoration done?

You will be driving in this Herald to South India rite? Isn't the oil consumption issue a serious concern?
Rite= A religious act. Never make this mistake.

Oil consumption is sometimes noticed during the running in period of a new engine. In this case, the motor was rebuilt.

It usually goes off after a while. Best carry a can of oil, until the issue subsides.
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Old 20th October 2014, 13:59   #123
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Great going Karl. A road test to Pune and back...now that is a distance that Calcutta restorers wouldn't undertake (but should)

You remember I told you about the rear windscreen of my parents' Herald flying off at night? Seems to be a bit of a Herald trait! Sad that it happened to your NOS side piece though.

On a serious note, other than the obvious, how can the low oil pressure be tackled? If a newly rebuilt engine shows low pressure then it's likely going to cause premature engine wear over time. Perhaps the oil pressure gauge pipes are clogged? Just thinking of reasons.
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Old 20th October 2014, 14:25   #124
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
16th October 2014

My first long trial, drove to Pune.

There is some oil consumption though.

And I bagged this on eBay - the next best thing to having an original Standard one.
Overall it looks great and congratualations on a great job done.

Oil consumption should settle down once the engine is run-in. Otherwise will have check furthere isn't it?

Also post you SI run, I am sure you will have plans to do the finer adjustments as well

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 20th October 2014, 14:58   #125
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Well done Karl. What a nice way to check the car out. What was the maximum speed you hit? Glad to note that the temperature is under control. Are you going to change to an alternator for the trip?

Whenever oil consumption is discussed, Harman Zapp comes to my mind. That evening when we all met him at Mumbai, I asked him at what intervals he changes oil, as he travels the world in his 1928 Graham Paige. He grinned and said that he does not change oil, since the car is consuming oil and he keeps topping up at regular intervals. Thus he has one job less - no oil change!

Just posting the Zapp (Spark Your Dream - the amazing story of the Zapp family and their 1928 Graham Paige) link, for people who have missed their story

Looking forward to catch up with you on the trip.

Cheers

KPS
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Old 20th October 2014, 15:53   #126
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Great going Karl. A road test to Pune and back...now that is a distance that Calcutta restorers wouldn't undertake (but should)
I guess after restoration one long trip is must to see what problems start cropping up. Nothing would be detected in a 10km drive around the neighborhood. I hope to do the run atleast once or twice more before leaving. Have already completed 800kms of running in.

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You remember I told you about the rear windscreen of my parents' Herald flying off at night? Seems to be a bit of a Herald trait! Sad that it happened to your NOS side piece though.
Haha yes now I remember. I guess the top had still not 'set' completely, and some level of flex is bound to occur as the car goes long distance (I guess this holds true for the whole body). This is coupled with locally adapted rubber and completely reworked measurements (large parts of the roof were remade).

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Also post you SI run, I am sure you will have plans to do the finer adjustments as well
Oh yes, plenty of fine tuning planned, besides the many things that are bound to crop up unplanned on a long drive. I hope the stone guard does its job for the underside.

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What was the maximum speed you hit? Glad to note that the temperature is under control. Are you going to change to an alternator for the trip?
I was driving at varying intervals between 40-50-60 kmph, switching every 20-odd kms. At no point did I cross 60. I am told this is essential for running-in. Ideally I should have fitted an alternator, though the dynamo is working perfectly. Will take a call later. The electronic fuel pump is fitted.

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Whenever oil consumption is discussed, Harman Zapp comes to my mind. That evening when we all met him at Mumbai, I asked him at what intervals he changes oil, as he travels the world in his 1928 Graham Paige. He grinned and said that he does not change oil, since the car is consuming oil and he keeps topping up at regular intervals. Thus he has one job less - no oil change!
Not just him, I had an uncle who did the same on his Fiat When we drained the oil to change it for the first time in decades, probably under a litre came out freely. The rest was sludge. Fortunately the engine remains in great shape, being low milage.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 20th October 2014 at 16:16.
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Old 20th October 2014, 21:03   #127
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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This car is a 1972 President, with some other fittings. The number too is 1972, Bombay.


1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration-wp_20141020_014.jpg

It is a Delight! 1972, if you will.
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Old 20th October 2014, 21:42   #128
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Karl,

It was great to see you on the way to Poona! Glad to know you had a good drive to and fro , some suggestions.

Re torque all nuts and bolts, including the cylinder head, to specifications.

drain a small quantity of engine oil ,run a magnet thru and check for any metal filings.

If you have an owners manual, it will tell you that oil consumption will be erratic for the first thousand miles.

Run your finger around the tail pipe of the exhaust system and check for any oily residue. If found, you are probably leaking oil past the piston rings.

I assume the oil pump was tested and found ok. Low oil pressure has many causes, to enumerate all will be tedious and boring to others so will brief you in person.

If every other way the car runs decently , complete the south run and then we will step by step find out the cause of excessive oil consumption.

The glass deciding to follow its own path is dangerous, check all fastners and carry a tube of glass sealant with you!

Car and driver looked good, hope you enjoy decades of motoring in this , and all your other beauties

Last edited by Bulldogji : 20th October 2014 at 21:44.
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Old 21st October 2014, 10:21   #129
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Karl,

It was great to see you on the way to Poona!
Likewise, though dare I saw the car you were driving didn't suit you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Glad to know you had a good drive to and fro , some suggestions.

Re torque all nuts and bolts, including the cylinder head, to specifications.

Drain a small quantity of engine oil, run a magnet through and check for any metal filings.

If you have an owners manual, it will tell you that oil consumption will be erratic for the first thousand miles.

Run your finger around the tail pipe of the exhaust system and check for any oily residue. If found, you are probably leaking oil past the piston rings.
Thanks for the advise. We should be re-torquing everything this week, post which I'll do another run to Pune on the weekend. I believe re-torquing has be done only when the engine is dead cold (overnight).

I did have a quick look at the oil on the dipstick to see for any traces for metal filings, couldn't see any, though I don't know if its that easy to see. I shall try with a magnet. Which reminds me - should I have fitted a magnetised drain bolt in the sump?

The manual doesn't say anything about oil consumption in the running-in description, but we should be changing the oil this week and will monitor the levels after the next Pune run.

1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration-009.jpg

We are getting a new exhaust system set up today, post which I will check for the oily residue in the tail pipe. Fortunately I see no smoke even when under load. Which reminds me, I should also check for water being thrown out of the tailpipe. Is this phenomenon restricted to morning or cold starts?
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Old 21st October 2014, 10:52   #130
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Thanks for the advise. We should be re-torquing everything this week, post which I'll do another run to Pune on the weekend. I believe re-torquing has be done only when the engine is dead cold (overnight).

should I have fitted a magnetised drain bolt in the sump?




I should also check for water being thrown out of the tailpipe. Is this phenomenon restricted to morning or cold starts?
Hi Karl,

Torque all fastners after the car has not been run for a few hours. A magnetised drain bolt is ok but not neccessary. Since you will be changing the oil , passing a magnet and keeping your eyes sharp, will help check if any filings are there.

As the exhaust gases pass thru a cold exhaust, ( In the early stages of an engine running) the gases cool and in a well tuned engine, water vapour, a by product of combustion, turns to water and droplets are emitted from the tail pipe.

Once the whole exhaust system gets hot, water vapour does not get a chance to cool into liquid( water) before it leaves the system. Therefore you will only see droplets in the beginning, not after the car has run for sometime.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 21st October 2014 at 11:00. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 21st October 2014, 12:20   #131
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
. Which reminds me, I should also check for water being thrown out of the tailpipe. Is this phenomenon restricted to morning or cold starts?
It is generally restricted to the first startup of the day, or starting after a considerably long interval , say 8 hours, IFF the car has been parked in a cool enough climate, say in a covered garage or under a tree, and if the engine is very well tuned.

But, this is mostly noticed in early morning and late night starts, as the cool temperature of the atmosphere (And the cold temp. of the exhaust!) aids condensation, thereby allowing the water to flow out of the exhaust. The incidences of the water being thrown out is restricted in afternoons, but still can be seen, though relatively rarely.

Imagine, the car fires up at half crank. Along with a slight huff of smoke, what emerges out of the exhaust? Water! This, on starting the car up after six months.

Last edited by FINTAIL : 21st October 2014 at 12:23.
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Old 21st October 2014, 15:45   #132
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Dear Fintail - I completely agree with you. My three teachers not only taught me to look for water coming out of the tailpipe, they also showed me the angle of divergence from the point on the workshop floor directly below the tailpipe end and also the location of the last drop of water on the workshop floor some 6 feet away! I absolutely adore, revere and literally worship my three teachers. They are God for me.

Dear Karl - what diameter exhaust system are you going to put now? The original one was 1.5 inches if I am not mistaken. Standard 10 had 1.375 inches. In any case, don't go beyond 1.5 inches.

If all parameters are within design specification, you will get water coming out of the tailpipe. It is a very satisfying experience to be able to see this happening, exactly the way you want it. Then do three things, as follows:

1. Take the idling speed down to as low as 375 rpm, the engine should still not miss a single beat. Reset it back to around 700 rpm (slightly higher than the original specification as we do not use leaded petrol now).
2. Put your left hand behind the carburettor body above the throttle plate, it should be refrigerator cold.
3. Shut off the engine and restart it 10 times in quick succession without any accelerator pedal input whatsoever. The engine should start instantly during all 10 restarts.

After all this also, water must come out of the tailpipe when you raise it to high idle speed of 4000 rpm.

That's engine tune-up!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th October 2014, 19:53   #133
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

23rd October 2014

Did a second trip to Pune, this time gradually increasing the revvs and speeds (had crossed around 800kms of running-in I think). Now cruising between 60 and 70, with the occasional short sprint to 80 on flat stretches. Car runs well, and begins to open up. no heating issues, though I did leave very early in the morning, so it may not be the best way to tell.

24th October 2014

A spontaneous trip to Mahabaleshwar was in order, which I had been avoiding so far given the ghats and a new engine. It was a quick dash, just a couple of small stops for a bite and meeting friends, and left for Pune by around 1pm. Made it back in good time. Absolutely no consumption of water since 1500kms!

1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration-bohemia.jpg

Back to Bombay tomorrow. I now feel confident that the car will give me many miles of happy motoring.
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Old 28th October 2014, 13:37   #134
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Was playing around with some video i took of Karl's car and came across this font.

It's quite similar to the 'Standard' font, though not exact (and lacks capital letters).

Sharing here in case it helps anyone.

1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration-screenshot-20141028133536.png



cya
R
Attached Files
File Type: zip Top_speed.zip (24.2 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by Rehaan : 28th October 2014 at 13:43.
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Old 30th October 2014, 20:22   #135
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Default Re: 1966 Standard Herald Mark II - Restoration

Karl : Hope yo are all set for the drive!! Waiting for the detailed report and pics. Given an opportunity, would definitely like to meet when you guys are in Bangalore.

The Herald's final outcome seems fantastic. Congratulations to you and the workmen.

Last edited by FordDodo : 30th October 2014 at 20:24.
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