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Old 13th May 2015, 16:41   #16
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Karl - CONGRATULATIONS! I know for sure that a brand new Standard Gazel was registered in 1980 as the company car of Mr.Ashok Sonalkar of M&M Kandivli, when I had joined there as a trainee. The car was light green in color and the number was MMU something. [u]This means that in 1980, Gazel was in production.

Behram Dhabhar
AFAIK; MMU is a 1980/81 Bombay Central number.

Our 1972 FIAT 1100D was reregistered from Pondicherry to Bombay in 1981; PYS 5775 became MMU 5324 in 21/5/81. The address it was registered to was - Pali Hill; Bandra.

__________________________________

That apart; congratulations to @Karlosdeville for this original specimen! Will keep scanning the Boat Club Road for this car; lol.

That said, lovely car! I eagerly await it!

Didn't Stanher have another Gazel as well? At first; I thought that it was his (His father's car, to be more precise) car that was getting restored. Best wishes for the restoration.

Cya in a while Karl. Need to collect 'em badges, remember? Will PM ya.

Last edited by FINTAIL : 13th May 2015 at 16:43.
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Old 13th May 2015, 17:46   #17
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

Karl,

All the best for your next restoration project

The rear suspension seems different compared to your Herald.
Hopefully, you'll have fewer axle breakages.

Please keep those pics coming ...
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Old 13th May 2015, 18:07   #18
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

Congrats! And glad to finally see more pics. of this car! I share your sentiments about the Gazel, but like you, I have a soft corner for them- probably having grown up with one! I wish ours were in this colour though!

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
To be honest I cannot say with confidence when the model was actually introduced. An old Auto India issue from the 90s chronicling the Indian automotive milestones puts the date as 1970, as a replacement to the Mark III. I would have thought they came in around 1971 or 72. And just now a senior collector informs me that they were introduced in September 1972, and discontinued in early 1975. I think the aluminium badges had the lettering pressed 'in' instead of stamped 'out'. I have seen many bumper configurations - chrome and body coloured, with and without guards, so I can't say for sure what came when. Ditto for side trims - maybe on some later models they were deleted altogether, not sure.
I'm sure they continued in production a bit longer than that.
As for bumpers, the mk1 Gazels all had the plain chrome bumpers (sans bumper guards) but the early mk2s like yours (and ours) had the less attractive (IMHO) painted ones but with guards provided, standing vertically upright. The last of the ones seem to've reverted to chrome rear bumper but with guards fitted upside-down, and seem to've lost the side trims as well:

http://www.aronline.co.uk/images/standard_gazel_02.jpg

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Incidentally my car is powder blue, which also must have been offered later.
I'm sure Powder Blue was an original option as well. I've heard of a few people having had them back when they were new.

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I really hope that anyone who can remember these sort of details to please share them - its a shame we have no reference material for most Indian cars of the era. I am sure resident Standard motors guru Stanher will contribute, having owned one for many years.
Your wish is my command!

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This would be a body coloured bumper version - probably a result of value engineering.
Pardon my ignorance but what is 'Value engineering'?

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I'm not sure whether the horn button should be plain black or have a Standard Triumph shield like Heralds.
1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-img_0997.jpg

AFAIK (from memory of my dad's car) it should've had a horn button like this (this was fitted on my Pennant though- I think it later went on to our Gazel) but they didn't last long so a Herald LUCAS one may be better?


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I am really looking forward to hear feedback from the more experienced members here, whether we are going about it the right way, any methods of improvement and so on. Criticism, constructive or otherwise, is always welcome.
Not a criticism per se, but I suggest you try and retain the Powder Blue colour when you repaint!
Also the air filter on your car's from an early Herald. This is what the original should've looked like (was on our car til 1987 when it was replaced with a Fiat one, maybe the carb as well) but must be real hen's teeth now!

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-gazelbel3.jpg

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Interiors seemed all original, with rare white beading. Can anyone confirm the door pad design to be correct?
IIRC this was how it was on our Gazel too, so should be correct.

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Rare wheel rims with thinner ventilation slats compared to the Herald.
Acstually, not so rare considering that they had come even on some of the British Triumphs. But too difficult to procure in India now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I know for sure that a brand new Standard Gazel was registered in 1980 as the company car of Mr.Ashok Sonalkar of M&M Kandivli, when I had joined there as a trainee. The car was light green in color and the number was MMU something. This means that in 1980, Gazel was in production.I suggest that if you really want to make this chassis and suspension parts like brand new, you must get these things CED coated. It will be a big hassle to do besides being very costly, but it is the best way.
While I'm dubious about 1980 being the last year of production, it would've certainly lasted until the late 70s, maybe '79 and hence registered in 1980?
And pardon my ignorance again, but what's CED??

Last edited by mobike008 : 14th May 2015 at 03:57. Reason: spell error corrected
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Old 13th May 2015, 18:11   #19
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Do consider sand blasting the chassis.
I've seen some instances where sand blasting has warped panels beyond repair, and am wary of trying it on a frame.

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
For body panels: Soda blast
I have wanted to try out soda blasting for a while now, and was in touch with Chetan from NuLook.
Unfortunately, their numbers seem to have been disconnected and their website is unreachable, of late.
The search is on for other setups that can provide this facility.
If anyone knows of any in Bangalore, pls do share.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I suggest that if you really want to make this chassis and suspension parts like brand new, you must get these things CED coated.
Interesting! Would this procedure not destroy the threading for fasteners?
Or is there some method to prevent that from happening?
Do you know of any service providers in Bangalore?
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Old 13th May 2015, 19:48   #20
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post

Pardon my ignorance but what is 'Value engineering'?

While I'm dubious about 1980 being the last year of production, it would've certainly lasted until the late 70s, maybe '79 and hence registered in 1980?
And pardon my ignorance again, but what's CED??
You're too ignorant. Lol.

Value Engineering - Is enginnering a product in order for the product to be more value-for-money for the manufacturer.

In other words- Value enginnering means - Cost Cutting measures.

Such as fitting parts of a worse quality; than is ideal/expected.

Therefore; I conclude; Value Enginnering = Cost Cutting.

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but what's CED
CED = Cathodic Electrodeposition.

This link may be a tad handy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrophoretic_deposition
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Old 14th May 2015, 08:07   #21
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Hi Karl, as usual a great job.
I am restoring a Morris 8 tourer at the moment, and had got the chassis sand blasted and powder coated. Results attached ��1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-imageuploadedbyteambhp1431570941.114609.jpg1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-imageuploadedbyteambhp1431570962.747485.jpg1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-imageuploadedbyteambhp1431570981.237879.jpg1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-imageuploadedbyteambhp1431570995.113639.jpg1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-imageuploadedbyteambhp1431571007.130894.jpg

Last edited by karlosdeville : 14th May 2015 at 09:54. Reason: On request
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Old 14th May 2015, 10:15   #22
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
I wish ours were in this colour though!
And how I wish mine was copper blue like yours!

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Not a criticism per se, but I suggest you try and retain the Powder Blue colour when you repaint!
Yes, we will be sticking to powder blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Also the air filter on your car's from an early Herald. This is what the original should've looked like (was on our car til 1987 when it was replaced with a Fiat one, maybe the carb as well) but must be real hen's teeth now!
I wonder if this other design was offered too - I find it unlikely that the unit would have been changed to a much older one, and that too when most everything else on the car hasn't changed.

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Originally Posted by Ford 1946 View Post
I am restoring a Morris 8 tourer at the moment, and had got the chassis sand blasted and powder coated. Results attached
Great to see this kind of work being done. You did it in Chennai itself I assume? I've been told that after blasting these components need to be primered/coated within 15 minutes to avoid the exposed metal being contaminated.
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Old 14th May 2015, 11:00   #23
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Great to see this kind of work being done. You did it in Chennai itself I assume? I've been told that after blasting these components need to be primered/coated within 15 minutes to avoid the exposed metal being contaminated.

Yes, Zinc coating cans are available off the shelf in Raviwar peth Pune. Heard Zinc coating works good for the chassis. Subject to correction since I have never used this before.
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Old 14th May 2015, 11:21   #24
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

14th May 2015

Work on the frame continues. The portions with surface rust were attended to with metal conditioner; frame was scraped down, etched with metal conditioner and coated with the first coat of epoxy.

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-01.jpg

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-02.jpg

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-03.jpg

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-04.jpg

1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration-05.jpg
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Old 14th May 2015, 12:52   #25
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

I am eyeing the SS80 in the background. Looks like a good project work as well.
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Old 14th May 2015, 14:06   #26
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

Congratulations Karl!! Her looks certainly takes a while to get used to.

So far going very well. Keep it up!

By the way what's the theory behind the underbody diagonal beam? Did you arrive to any conclusions?
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Old 14th May 2015, 14:40   #27
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by Ford 1946 View Post
I am restoring a Morris 8 tourer at the moment, and had got the chassis sand blasted and powder coated. Results attached ��
End result looks very pleasing! My compliments.

A close look at the post-blasting pics does reveal a few dings and warps on the chassis sections, probably a result of too much pressure or incorrect angle of application (which is normal with sandblasting).

Commendably, your tin worker seems to have beaten out all the dings before powder coating. He was able to achieve this since your chassis is of an open box construction.

On a closed box chassis (like the Gazel's), dings and warps would be near impossible to fix, and if those dings happen to be near a body mount or suspension bracket, we could end up jeopardising alignment.

In the absence of soda blasting, I would personally prefer the traditional methods of scraping down manually. Wurth offers many types of abrasive pads, grinding wheels and wire brushes which are tough on rust, mild on steel and suited to various applications.

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Heard Zinc coating works good for the chassis.
Zinc plating + Powder coat is a great choice.
However, considering the surface rust on this car, and the fact that it is headed to a coastal city, the plan is to give it additional rust protection.
The plan, as of now, is to use an etching agent, epoxy primer and then top off with Wurth underbody protection.

Zinc + Powder is being considered for suspension parts, since rubberised compounds are not an option there.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:15   #28
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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MMU is a 1980/81 Bombay Central number.
Dear Fintail - MMU was a 1976 to 1982 MUMBAI WEST (Andheri RTO) number. At the same time, MMY was a MUMBAI EAST (Ghatkopar RTO) number and MMF was a MUMBAI CENTRAL (Tardeo RTO) number. I had my group-A rally car MMY43 which was a November 1977 model. I also had MMF1845 and MMF3433, which were 1977 and 1978 models respectively. Incidentally, we bought MMF1845 which was the very first arctic white colored Premier Padmini Deluxe car with floor shift gears, bucket seats and seat belts sold in Mumbai. It was delivered to my father by PAL dealer Maha Auto Kalina on Guru Nanak Jayanti day, 25 November 1977. We paid 38000 rupees for it on road. The standard car cost 32000 rupees then.

After MMF, it was MMG, MMH, BLB, BLD, BLF and then MH01.
After MMU, it was BLL, BLN and then MH02.
After MMY, it was MAM, BLU and then MH03.
At the same time, re-registration of old cars was under BLI (central), BLO (west) and MAX (east).
MH01, MH02 and MH03 started on 01-07-1989. This happened across the whole country as CMVR.

Dear Shyam and Bulletboy - CED as rightly mentioned by fintail is Cathode Electrodeposition. It is regularly used by OEMs on production vehicles to protect against corrosion. These facilities are extremely costly to install and operate, the per-piece cost is also high but it gives the best corrosion protection. Please see the perimeter and volume dimensions of high-deck load bodies of commercial vehicles, these are CED coated at final assembly level. I know of the best facilities in Pimpri-Chinchwad, but these are captive for OEMs, they won't take a single piece job where the corrosion collected over 41 years will come out from inside the box sections and affect their plant working. Maybe as an alternative, you can try powder coating, but very few guys will have a bath which will be able to allow the perimeter dimensions of the full length chassis to be submerged completely. I have got powder coating done on my left hand drive fiat chassis as it is a unique part (LHD compatible + cable operated clutch) and I want it to last forever. It could not be accommodated in the facilities in Mumbai so I had to take it to a facility in Satpur, Nasik. However, this chassis is much smaller. It also cost me a lot of money (I could have bought two more chassis at less cost)!

If both these things don't work out, spray engine oil inside the box sections. This has worked very well inside the running boards of all my cars. After spraying the oil, you weld the seams, the oil will burn and produce a lot of white smoke but it will also form a protective coating inside the boxes. Then you spray again, before final painting.

You'll need a property called "patience personified" to be able to achieve all this! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 14th May 2015 at 15:18.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:18   #29
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b][u]....... The car was light green in color and the number was MMU something. This means that in 1980, Gazel was in production.
I remember reading somewhere that, Standard Motors was producing one Gazel per year till the launch of the Standard 2000. This was to keep their manufacturing licence valid. That was the licence raj period, you know.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:22   #30
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Default Re: 1974 Standard Gazel - Restoration

Dear Rajeev - thanks for the information, but M&M had purchased quite a few Gazel cars for their senior executives then, it was not only for Mr.Ashok Sonalkar. Some cars were green, some were blue like Karl's car. I was a trainee in 1980 and I was in awe of all the perks enjoyed by the senior guys (I guess I still am, hahaha! ).

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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