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Old 11th December 2016, 08:34   #1576
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I have usually seen fuses rated between 10 to 35 amps and not aware of 56 amps.
I did visit Jadsons over the weekend and as you said, this spare parts store is almost a gold mine of sorts for those looking for spares for their old cars.

Unfortunately; they did not have everything I wanted. I picked up 8 amp glass fuses and that is the only ampere rating he had, for this type of fuse. Moreover, I was looking for the pointed end glass fuses, not the flat top.

Thank you again for letting me know about Jadsons.

On a different note and in reply to my last query regarding sourcing a fuel tank, I did manage to source one through Murthy the mechanic on Cock Burn Road. It was a used tank. Cost me Rs. 1100.

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Old 24th January 2017, 15:23   #1577
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Lots of updates.

Around mid December, I dropped my car off at Bosch in Hoodi, for fitting of the replacement fuel tank. The work was carried out well and out of some miracle, the fuel meter now works even though they did not put in the new float I gave them. They said the float taken from the old fuel tank was fine. I went to Bosch to collect the car. When they were taking the car in for a wash, the ignition key unit developed a fault and did not disengage the starter motor. This resulted in the armature going for six. Bosch sent it to TVS and got it fixed though it took a good two weeks for the starter motor to come back.

My car was the official ride for FM tharian's wedding. The car mildly decked up with flowers on the hood and boot lid. It was also a very stressful day. As soon after we left the flower shop, the engine died and refused to start. We pushed the car till tharians house, which was fortunately down hill, I made a call to the mechanic who was happy to assist. In the mean time, I noticed no fuel reaching the carburetor. I tried mouth to mouth therapy with the fuel line and it was taking some effort to get fuel out. I left it at that. I got the mechanic over and he did the same thing. He got out some fuel from the pipe and then blew into the carburetor inlet nozzle, post which the car fired up. As it turns out, the heat build up within the engine bay resulted in the pump not being able to supply a steady pressure of fuel to the carburetor. My mechanic suggested leaving a damp piece of cotton waste cloth over the fuel pump. This helped and the car did the honors of taking tharian to church and also driving the newly wed to their reception.

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_5439-1.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_5440-1.jpg

Over a few days, I got the fuel pump replaced. What was in the car was S.E.V brand. I donít recall the brand but the new pump was made by a Chennai based company. During the process of fitting the new fuel pump, my mechanic re did the plumbing of the fuel delivery hose. We used Maruti Omni petrol rubber pipes and clamps to secure the pipe and also fitted a Purolator fuel filter just under the battery frame. This addressed concerns of fuel delivery. The real test will be driving around on a hot summer day.

After a gap of a week, one morning I start the car and the engine does not sound right. One cylinder isnít firing. Mechanic comes to the rescue and identifies a faulty plug, 2nd from the radiator side. We replace it and it is all good. I am not sure whether to read this as good intention or just a way to make money, my mechanic suggested we replace some key electrical components. They were the Ignition Coil, new spark plugs, new high tension cables, Condenser and contact breaker points inside the distributor. For the Distributor, Condensor and contact breaker points, I got original Lucas TVS parts. The high tension cable was of some brand called Bharat and the plugs used are of Maruti Omni with spacers as they are longer than the original short plugs. I donít understand the reason behind the mechanic using these plugs instead of stock. He claims the stock plugs are not as good as they used to be. Unfortunately, the third plug is jammed so we replace only three plugs. I instruct the mechanic not to force open the jammed plug. For now, Iíve sprayed WD40 and hope that I can get the plug out. In parallel, I picked up NGK BPR5HS plugs. I hear they are the best plugs out there for this car. I have not fitted them yet.

Next step was to clean the carburetor, put in new carburetor seals, a new jet, adjust the tappets, put in a new rubber grommet between the carburetor and air filter and do a tune up. I got some brand called Kappco but the seals for the jets were no good. I picked up original Solex seals this morning. Though it seems like something I can do myself, Iíll wait for my mechanic to come and fix them.

I am looking for a little rubber grommet that sits beside the oil filter canister. The rubber grommet is to route the fuel delivery pipe from the fuel pump to the carburetor. Right now, the fuel pipe runs through the loop beside the oil filter canister. The presence of the rubber grommet will secure the fuel delivery pipe better. Basically, it wonít sag as it travels to the carburetor. Do look at the image of the engine bay and observe the fuel pipe going towards the oil filter canister.

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_5618.jpg

After all this work, I seem to have a car that sounds well tuned. There is one peculiar problem though and this is a recent development. After the car has run and I turn off the engine, I can hear a single click noise coming from somewhere in the engine bay. It comes in intervals of 30 seconds and takes a few minutes before it completely stops. It is the sound of something metal clicking or expanding/contracting. This is a noise that is louder than the cat converter tingling noise you hear from a modern day car. I canít figure out what this is and I am little worried. The engine sounds perfect while running though.

Starting problem has not gone away though. It is no problem if I start the car every day. Cranking problem occurs if I havenít cranked the car in a couple of days. It still takes about 5-6 cranks which isnít normal. I am not too worried about this as once she cranks, it is no problem at all while running or any re cranks with a hot engine.

That is all folks.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 24th January 2017 at 15:34.
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Old 25th January 2017, 09:08   #1578
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
As it turns out, the heat build up within the engine bay resulted in the pump not being able to supply a steady pressure of fuel to the carburetor. My mechanic suggested leaving a damp piece of cotton waste cloth over the fuel pump.

Over a few days, I got the fuel pump replaced. What was in the car was S.E.V brand. I don’t recall the brand but the new pump was made by a Chennai based company. During the process of fitting the new fuel pump, my mechanic re did the plumbing of the fuel delivery hose. We used Maruti Omni petrol rubber pipes and clamps to secure the pipe and also fitted a Purolator fuel filter just under the battery frame. This addressed concerns of fuel delivery.
Good that Bosch service guys are skilled to attend to issues with Padmini. Have you installed an electronic pump? You might as well look out at the scrapyard for the a steel pipe that connects the mechanical pump and the carburetor.

Quote:
After a gap of a week, one morning I start the car and the engine does not sound right. One cylinder isn’t firing. Mechanic comes to the rescue and identifies a faulty plug, 2nd from the radiator side. We replace it and it is all good. I am not sure whether to read this as good intention or just a way to make money, my mechanic suggested we replace some key electrical components. They were the Ignition Coil, new spark plugs, new high tension cables, Condenser and contact breaker points inside the distributor. For the Distributor, Condensor and contact breaker points, I got original Lucas TVS parts. The high tension cable was of some brand called Bharat and the plugs used are of Maruti Omni with spacers as they are longer than the original short plugs. I don’t understand the reason behind the mechanic using these plugs instead of stock. He claims the stock plugs are not as good as they used to be. Unfortunately, the third plug is jammed so we replace only three plugs. I instruct the mechanic not to force open the jammed plug. For now, I’ve sprayed WD40 and hope that I can get the plug out. In parallel, I picked up NGK BPR5HS plugs. I hear they are the best plugs out there for this car. I have not fitted them yet.
Have you got a picture of the 2nd sparkplug? Did it have any oil soot accumulated around the electrode? Until there is no air leakage with the Omni plug and spacer, things should work fine. But be assured that the spacer is put back every time you remove and reinstall the same. There are chances that the plug might hit the piston if the spacer is forgotten. And please do share a picture of the spacer just for knowledge sake. I believe, going for all new components pertaining to the ignition system is a good option. So no harm in investing on a new point, condenser, ignition wires and plugs. Set the dwell and static advance as per the specifications (mentioned somewhere in this thread itself by late Mr. Behram).
Check the link below.
https://www.ngk.de/fileadmin/Dokumen...en_code_en.pdf
The NGK plug you have chosen, has a resistor. However it is advisable to go for a non-resistor plug for Padmini. You need to look for a plug that doesn't contain "R" in its nomenclature.

Quote:
Starting problem has not gone away though. It is no problem if I start the car every day. Cranking problem occurs if I haven’t cranked the car in a couple of days. It still takes about 5-6 cranks which isn’t normal. I am not too worried about this as once she cranks, it is no problem at all while running or any re cranks with a hot engine.
Any Solex carburetor based system without a fuel return line develops starting problem if the car is left unattended for over a week. So this is very normal. At least with the Padmini we had. However we never experienced such problems with the 118NE because the Mikuni carburetor came with a fuel return line.

Last edited by ilangop : 25th January 2017 at 09:11.
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Old 27th January 2017, 22:01   #1579
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

It was nice meeting you in the FCB meet, Sandeep.
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Old 28th January 2017, 14:50   #1580
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Lots of updates.

Over a few days, I got the fuel pump replaced. What was in the car was S.E.V brand. I don’t recall the brand but the new pump was made by a Chennai based company.

Next step was to clean the carburetor, put in new carburetor seals, a new jet, adjust the tappets, put in a new rubber grommet between the carburetor and air filter and do a tune up. I got some brand called Kappco but the seals for the jets were no good. I picked up original Solex seals this morning. Though it seems like something I can do myself, I’ll wait for my mechanic to come and fix them.


After all this work, I seem to have a car that sounds well tuned. There is one peculiar problem though and this is a recent development. After the car has run and I turn off the engine, I can hear a single click noise coming from somewhere in the engine bay. It comes in intervals of 30 seconds and takes a few minutes before it completely stops. It is the sound of something metal clicking or expanding/contracting. This is a noise that is louder than the cat converter tingling noise you hear from a modern day car. I can’t figure out what this is and I am little worried. The engine sounds perfect while running though.
1. Please put an electronic fuel pump (UCAL FACET preferable) to get out from these troubles. You have to locate it at 15 degrees in your dicky. Behrambhai has given all the instructions on how to do this somewhere on this thread. Also the fuel filter will be in the dicky just before the pump. Putting a filter in the engine compartment calls for vapour lock. I have an engineered solution in my 118NE under guidance of 'The Guru' (everyone knows who)

2. Ilango is right on the NGK plugs. I suggest you to not use the OMNI plugs and do jugaad. Instead eliminate all problems step-by-step and life will be much easy.

3. The ticking noise coming from the engine is perfectly normal especially in winters. That is the sound of metal contraction when the engine cools down. Very very common and NOTHING to worry so much.

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Old 30th January 2017, 11:09   #1581
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
1. Please put an electronic fuel pump to get out from these troubles. I suggest you to not use the OMNI plugs and do jugaad. Instead eliminate all problems step-by-step and life will be much easy.
I'll take up the fuel pump job in some time and after I fully understand the way it is to be installed.

On the plugs, can I use Champion L92YC? They come with one spacer ring as can be seen in the image.

I am stuck with these Champions, the NGK's that I should not use and the jugaad Omni plugs that are on the car. Please advice.

How harmful or not is the presence of a resistor on the NGK plugs?

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_5769.jpg
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Old 30th January 2017, 14:16   #1582
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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On the plugs, can I use Champion L92YC? They come with one spacer ring as can be seen in the image.

I am stuck with these Champions, the NGK's that I should not use and the jugaad Omni plugs that are on the car. Please advice.

How harmful or not is the presence of a resistor on the NGK plugs?
Yes, L92YC can be used. They are the equivalent plugs from champion for the Bosch W7BC. The ring is only a washer to keep things air tight, and it is required. Sparkplugs with a tapered shoulder don't have this ring. Since L29YC has a 90 degree shoulder, this ring is required.

Resistor, resists current flow. Means, all the voltage appearing at the output of the distributor is not available at the electrodes of the sparkplug. The spark wont be as intense as in the case without resistor.
Resistor plugs were used to tackle EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference). Remember the noise produced by AM radio in your car as soon as you start the engine. A resistor was used as an add-on to suppress the noises. Now we all have FM and USB players. So this is not required.
In modern ECU controlled cars with distributor-less ignition systems these resitor plugs are used to tackle EMI problems.
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Old 31st January 2017, 15:52   #1583
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Lots of updates.

Around mid December, I dropped my car off at Bosch in Hoodi, for fitting of the replacement fuel tank. The work was carried out well and out of some miracle, the fuel meter now works even though they did not put in the new float I gave them. They said the float taken from the old fuel tank was fine. I went to Bosch to collect the car. When they were taking the car in for a wash, the ignition key unit developed a fault and did not disengage the starter motor. This resulted in the armature going for six. Bosch sent it to TVS and got it fixed though it took a good two weeks for the starter motor to come back.

My car was the official ride for FM tharian's wedding. The car mildly decked up with flowers on the hood and boot lid. It was also a very stressful day. As soon after we left the flower shop, the engine died and refused to start. We pushed the car till tharians house, which was fortunately down hill, I made a call to the mechanic who was happy to assist. In the mean time, I noticed no fuel reaching the carburetor. I tried mouth to mouth therapy with the fuel line and it was taking some effort to get fuel out. I left it at that. I got the mechanic over and he did the same thing. He got out some fuel from the pipe and then blew into the carburetor inlet nozzle, post which the car fired up. As it turns out, the heat build up within the engine bay resulted in the pump not being able to supply a steady pressure of fuel to the carburetor. My mechanic suggested leaving a damp piece of cotton waste cloth over the fuel pump. This helped and the car did the honors of taking tharian to church and also driving the newly wed to their reception.

Attachment 1598726

Attachment 1598725

Over a few days, I got the fuel pump replaced. What was in the car was S.E.V brand. I donít recall the brand but the new pump was made by a Chennai based company. During the process of fitting the new fuel pump, my mechanic re did the plumbing of the fuel delivery hose. We used Maruti Omni petrol rubber pipes and clamps to secure the pipe and also fitted a Purolator fuel filter just under the battery frame. This addressed concerns of fuel delivery. The real test will be driving around on a hot summer day.

After a gap of a week, one morning I start the car and the engine does not sound right. One cylinder isnít firing. Mechanic comes to the rescue and identifies a faulty plug, 2nd from the radiator side. We replace it and it is all good. I am not sure whether to read this as good intention or just a way to make money, my mechanic suggested we replace some key electrical components. They were the Ignition Coil, new spark plugs, new high tension cables, Condenser and contact breaker points inside the distributor. For the Distributor, Condensor and contact breaker points, I got original Lucas TVS parts. The high tension cable was of some brand called Bharat and the plugs used are of Maruti Omni with spacers as they are longer than the original short plugs. I donít understand the reason behind the mechanic using these plugs instead of stock. He claims the stock plugs are not as good as they used to be. Unfortunately, the third plug is jammed so we replace only three plugs. I instruct the mechanic not to force open the jammed plug. For now, Iíve sprayed WD40 and hope that I can get the plug out. In parallel, I picked up NGK BPR5HS plugs. I hear they are the best plugs out there for this car. I have not fitted them yet.

Next step was to clean the carburetor, put in new carburetor seals, a new jet, adjust the tappets, put in a new rubber grommet between the carburetor and air filter and do a tune up. I got some brand called Kappco but the seals for the jets were no good. I picked up original Solex seals this morning. Though it seems like something I can do myself, Iíll wait for my mechanic to come and fix them.

I am looking for a little rubber grommet that sits beside the oil filter canister. The rubber grommet is to route the fuel delivery pipe from the fuel pump to the carburetor. Right now, the fuel pipe runs through the loop beside the oil filter canister. The presence of the rubber grommet will secure the fuel delivery pipe better. Basically, it wonít sag as it travels to the carburetor. Do look at the image of the engine bay and observe the fuel pipe going towards the oil filter canister.

Attachment 1598724

After all this work, I seem to have a car that sounds well tuned. There is one peculiar problem though and this is a recent development. After the car has run and I turn off the engine, I can hear a single click noise coming from somewhere in the engine bay. It comes in intervals of 30 seconds and takes a few minutes before it completely stops. It is the sound of something metal clicking or expanding/contracting. This is a noise that is louder than the cat converter tingling noise you hear from a modern day car. I canít figure out what this is and I am little worried. The engine sounds perfect while running though.

Starting problem has not gone away though. It is no problem if I start the car every day. Cranking problem occurs if I havenít cranked the car in a couple of days. It still takes about 5-6 cranks which isnít normal. I am not too worried about this as once she cranks, it is no problem at all while running or any re cranks with a hot engine.

That is all folks.
Sandeep please check whether the engine is getting over heated as it may lead to vapour lock. It is not advisable to go for an electric pump in your car assuming that you have a solex carburetor without a return Line . Mechanical pumps should be fine as long it is in order and I have been using it in my super select without any issue .
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Old 1st February 2017, 09:49   #1584
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Sandeep please check whether the engine is getting over heated as it may lead to vapour lock.
Now that you mention it, my mechanic did tell me the car is running hot. I had to attend to a couple of small jobs such as replacing the fuel pump to carburetor pipe and fixing the accelerator pedal spring. This required a drive to the garage at around 3pm. Distance was no more than 4km. The car was idling at a traffic light for 5-7 minutes and was in bumper to bumper traffic for a short period. When we removed the old fuel pipe there was no fuel in it and that is when my mechanic mentioned the car is running hot.

I have not had a situation where the engine has over heated. Then again, the car has not been driven in dense traffic. I refrain from this as the car is old and I must look after the engine. No major engine work has ever been carried out in 44 years! The temperature meter touches the 80 mark and usually stays there. It may go over the 8 digit but I have never seen it cross this mark. I do have a leaky radiator but not to the extent where I loose all fluids. I end up topping up the coolant tank only once in two months but then the car isn't driven regularly.

After all the fixes were completed, as described in post #1577, the mechanic asked me to crank the car. He popped the radiator cap with the engine running. At a rpm higher than idle, he poured distilled water direct in to the radiator. I noticed that when the engine isn't running, the level in the radiator shows higher but when you crank the engine, you can see it drop a little. I have never poured water or coolant in to the radiator. If I do need to top up, its always the coolant tank. After a little bit of driving, I guess there was some back flow from the radiator and that resulted in a slight over from from the coolant tank. I have now emptied some coolant from the coolant tank to bring the level to the correct marking.

I am still a little bit concerned over the clicking noise heard from the engine by after engine shut down. If memory serves me right, I never heard this noise before all the work was carried out. It is possible that there is better compression taking place now with new plugs and electrical's thrown in which has resulted in a hotter exhaust manifold. I got the mechanic to hear this as well and he said the same thing as another FM mentioned. It is just metal contracting or expanding from the exhaust system.

I am not pursuing a electric pump at the moment. I just put in a new mechanical fuel pump. Yes; it is a Solex carburetor and I don't see any return line other than the fuel delivery pipe.

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Old 1st February 2017, 14:28   #1585
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I am not pursuing a electric pump at the moment. I just put in a new mechanical fuel pump. Yes; it is a Solex carburetor and I don't see any return line other than the fuel delivery pipe.
There is no return line, but its safe to use an electric pump to prime the carb before you start after a long hibernation. You can use a push button switch so that you dont keep it on accidentally.

When you crank the car on a dry carb, you need more cranks and you risk heating the starter motor and drain your battery.
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Old 1st February 2017, 16:40   #1586
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I am not pursuing a electric pump at the moment. I just put in a new mechanical fuel pump. Yes; it is a Solex carburetor and I don't see any return line other than the fuel delivery pipe.
Dear Sandeep,
You can install an electric pump even if your Solex does not have a return line. The Hitachi in my 118NE also does not have a return line but there is a way of doing it. You have to install a T joint with an orifice of 0.8mm on the return line that goes back into tank.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:47   #1587
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Dear Sandeep,
You can install an electric pump even if your Solex does not have a return line. The Hitachi in my 118NE also does not have a return line but there is a way of doing it. You have to install a T joint with an orifice of 0.8mm on the return line that goes back into tank.
Vaidya, Could you please elaborate how the 0.8mm orifice was made in the Tee-joint? The Tee-joint comes without an orifice right?
Also a pictorial schematic of the fuel line connections would be helpful. Please share. Thank you.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 15:46   #1588
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Vaidya, Could you please elaborate how the 0.8mm orifice was made in the Tee-joint? The Tee-joint comes without an orifice right?
Also a pictorial schematic of the fuel line connections would be helpful. Please share. Thank you.
I got them readily available from a Hardware shop for fitting in a LPG valve. It was a tight fit inside the T.
Attached is the pictorial schematic of the fuel line connections for eliminating vapour lock problem. It is imperative to fit the Fuel Filter, Electric fuel pump and the first T connector in the dicky and the other T connector before the inlet valve of the carburettor at an upright position such that upper part of T remains at top. You can actually hear the fuel returning back and falling inside the tank when its not full.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 08:56   #1589
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I got them readily available from a Hardware shop for fitting in a LPG valve. It was a tight fit inside the T.
Attached is the pictorial schematic of the fuel line connections for eliminating vapour lock problem. It is imperative to fit the Fuel Filter, Electric fuel pump and the first T connector in the dicky and the other T connector before the inlet valve of the carburettor at an upright position such that upper part of T remains at top. You can actually hear the fuel returning back and falling inside the tank when its not full.
Thank you Kanhai. The schematic was self explanatory. I would like to add a few more points to make this solution adaptable in the context of Fiat 1100 & PP.
1. Please refer to the picture. T1 should be oriented and bolted to the body such that the orifice installed is vertical. Only then any vapour captured will return to the tank.
2. The orientation of T2 is not so critical.
3. In 118NE the space above the rear axle has been used to install the fuel pump. In this configuration, the pump is the lower most item. The outlet of the pump is directed little upwards to let any captured vapour outside. Then comes T1.
4. In PP, if pump is placed above the fuel tank vapour wont get back to the tank. Hence choose a place such that the pump is lower than T1 and T1 is lower than the top surface of the tank

One doubt. Should both T-joints have the 0.8mm orifice or just T1?
Thank you.
-Ilango
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Old 3rd February 2017, 09:21   #1590
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I got them readily available from a Hardware shop for fitting in a LPG valve. It was a tight fit inside the T.
What do you ask for at a hardware store and what did you mean by "it was a tight fit inside the T"?

If someone has done this in the manner the drawing illustrates and more in line with what FM ilangop has further described, are there photos of someone who has done this on their Fiat 1100's and later models?
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