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Old 17th August 2015, 23:09   #1111
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by HimuraKenshin View Post
Hi Behram!
i tried calling you but was not able to get through,but seeing that you are active on here, i wanted to ask you a question.

My car is leaning towards one side, the left to be specific.
The leaf springs were worked upon and the 'pata' bushes were replaced.
The fron suspension was also worked upon, all 'gutka' bushes were replaced with original VIR ones, nothing else was touched or replaced. During this job, the coil spring pads were also changed.
The car was fine for a few weeks after this, but now its leaning to the left again.
Kindly advice on the course of action..
Himura san,

Left front or back? Its unlikely or may be rare that both front and back on one side weaken. Please start by checking the air pressure on the tyres. Also, park car on a flat surface and measure the height from floor to running board on 4 corners. Many a times, its just a feeling. On my Linea, I discovered that lower pressures in the radials and slightly sloping parking area caused the car to tilt. Also, check if there is any uneven loading.

Last edited by autocrat : 17th August 2015 at 23:10.
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Old 18th August 2015, 19:24   #1112
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
Himura san,

Left front or back? ....
hi, it seems from the left front.
Ive measured from the floorboard, and there indeed is a severe tilt.
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Old 19th August 2015, 21:16   #1113
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by HimuraKenshin View Post
hi, it seems from the left front.
Ive measured from the floorboard, and there indeed is a severe tilt.
I think its better to get the suspension checked, from rubber bushings to coil spring and damper. Please be present in the garage when they check and ascertain what's the problem. As this problem has recurred, treating symptomatically won't resolve the issue. You will need expert advise to arrive at the root cause.
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Old 21st August 2015, 15:10   #1114
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

BD sir, I have a question for you. I know for sure, this is not the type of question you like to be asked , I will still ask.

On my S1, I want to be able to install 3 point seat belt, just for the safety aspect. I have been using it quite a bit and is my primary daily drive car. My Linea is more for highways. Is this possible? Do I need to get rid of the bench seat and get buckets of another 1100 or may be some other car. I do remember you suggesting not to do such conversions generally.

Note:
- I don't mind loosing on the originality thing
- I don't mind if the car lasts little lesser time due to the jugaad stuff of removing seats, welding new ones and so on.

As long as I can have a working 3 point seat belt, I should be good.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:11   #1115
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
- I don't mind loosing on the originality thing
- I don't mind if the car lasts little lesser time due to the jugaad stuff of removing seats, welding new ones and so on.
As long as I can have a working 3 point seat belt, I should be good.
Would these help?
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-imag0906.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-imag0890.jpg

Seats & belt setup is from OPTRA. Makes sense to buy everything from one car otherwise belt lock/latch on seat side will stand out like a sore thumb.
OPTRA passenger also has a drawer type under tray, very handy is storing things from prying eyes. It can accommodate a 14"laptop.

If you like this then will send you photos of four points that the seats are fixed on. These are easily reversible or you may leave them as it is & fix the bench seat back.

Regards-Sonu

Last edited by ariesonu : 21st August 2015 at 16:19. Reason: Adding content & sign
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:47   #1116
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Wow! How well does the seat belts work? Does it retract well?

What all car seats did you evaluate before zeroing on Optra. I mean does most car seat + seatbelt setup suit the Padmini or are there any cars that are not compatible I should exclude.

Do send me the details on how you fixed it.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 09:39   #1117
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by Elegant Pig View Post
Thanks a lot, Genesis, for such a prompt response!!! Will try and meet him asap. Btw, would love to see your petrol Jeep.
Is this fiat yours elegant pig?
Attached Thumbnails
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_20150822_093437.jpg  

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Old 22nd August 2015, 11:24   #1118
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Just completed a general refurbishment of all mechanical parts on my padmini.
Rebuilt the engine with
  • new plain bearings to first oversize - crankshaft, connecting, and camshaft
  • new pistons rings on original standard size piston and bore sleeved to standard size as I could not get oversize pistons,
  • new timing chain and sprockets
  • new valves and guides
  • new spark plugs
  • new engine and GB bedding
  • new clutch and pressure plate
  • replaced 2nd gear synchronizer lock kit and gear lever kit
  • Suspension rebuild with new bushes.
  • Brakes replaced all seals on master and wheel cylinders
  • new battery, exide matrix
I also did a modification on the bypass oil filter to take on a maruti filter as the original paper filter is no longer available.
I am running-in the car now and quite pleased as she has become very crisp.
Attached Thumbnails
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-image1.jpeg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-photo2.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-image2.jpeg  

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Old 22nd August 2015, 11:31   #1119
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Wow! How well does the seat belts work? Does it retract well?
Dear Karthik - sorry for delayed reply due to extensive travel in areas of no coverage!

PLEASE DO NOT MONKEY AROUND WITH ELR SEAT BELTS. If mounted incorrectly, they will not work when required, so they will not save you. For production type approval, pull-out force is 2.5 times GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight). Premier Padmini has never passed this test, I had tested so I know. "Officially" you are not supposed to fit seat belts in cars which did not have provision for fitting them. The "provision" clause was introduced in the CMVR from 1991, Padminis manufactured from 1991 onwards have this provision. The universal thread specification for seatbelt mounting is 5/16UNF (Unified threads). If your car is 1991 or afterwards, it will have the welded nuts in the floor and on the B pillar. You can mount 3 point static seat belts in them. DO NOT USE M10*1.25 SIZE BOLTS. THEY WILL FIT BUT THREADS WILL GET SPOILT.

I have seen cars having seat belts mounted by using self tapping screws . By the way, taxiwallahs in Mumbai pull the ELR seat belt out and then tie a thread to prevent it from going back. This is to save themselves from being stopped on the road. This is the best example of ignorance in our country. I hope somebody reads this and starts stopping such taxis! .

Dear Soumya - the black Select was in Andheri (East). It belonged to a doctor.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 22nd August 2015, 17:19   #1120
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Recently my Dad picked up a very original '62 Super Select. (thanks to Rony/President for telling us about the car!) The car had just two previous owners and was garaged for most of it's life. It's still got most of the original upholstery and even has the running-in sticker on the windshield.

The bodywork also is in excellent condition and there was barely any rust on the car when we got it.

The car was rarely used for the last 10 years, and runs fairly well. In-fact we drove it down to Bombay from Ratnagiri when we bought it without any issues.

The first thing we did was sort out the bodywork. The few rust spots were dealt with, bumpers and front grill where re-chromed and the Uno wheel caps the previous owner had installed where replaced with the stock ones.

Now we are focusing on perfecting the mechanicals. Here's what we have gotten done so far:

1) Wheel alignment.
2) Cleaned radiator
3) engine, gearbox, and differential oil changed
4) changed air filter and oil filter
5) serviced starter
6) changed the coil after the old one failed
7) new alternator
8) leaf spring bushings
9) distributor serviced

Here's what we are focusing on next:

1) The carburettor is not the stock 32 PBIC, we've been told it's a 80s Padmini carb. Not sure which model exactly but it has an accelerator pump. Did the stock carb have an accelerator pump also? And if the 32 PBIC is not available which carb should be used?

The choke mechanism also seems to be broken/canceled so we would like to have that working too.

2) Timing and point gap
Still have to hook up the timing light and dwell meter and check for sure. The distributor has been changed to a Lucas-TVS one with vacuum advance, so the timing should be set to 10 BTDC at idle, correct?

3) Temperature gauge
Only thing in the instrument panel that doesn't work. Need to find someone who can sort it out.

Here are some pictures of the car.

Before re-chorming the bumpers and grill:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-01000017.jpg

After chroming and wheels-caps:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-20150706-09.01.14.jpg

Engine bay (as it was when we got the car, it has since been cleaned up a bit):
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_1575.jpeg

Interior:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_2014.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_2015.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_2020.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_1599.jpeg

Running in sticker:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_1634.jpeg

Looking forward to your comments and suggestions.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 14:32   #1121
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Please don't do anything silly with the timing cover packing, just leave it alone for the time being, you can just wipe off the excess oil with a piece of cloth dipped in some petrol and see that all the M6*1.0 size bolts are tight enough, do not over-tighten, the bolts will break. Torque as per drawing should be in the region of 1.5kgm. The three bolts on the LH side (near the filter) have nuts and are known to get loose a little. This should not be more than a 5 minutes job. By the way, the two M8*1.25 size nuts holding the mechanical fuel pump on the cylinder block are also known to get a little loose, just tighten them properly. Don't do anything else here also.
Dear Sir,

I checked the timing chain cover, but I did not try to tighten them as
1) I did not have ring spanners of this size
2) The bolts are not easily accessible as on one side, radiator hose and belt are coming in the way, and on the other, the belt, alternator mounting bracket etc are coming in the way. If I use a flat spanner and it slips, I might hurt the radiator or some other part.
As there is no major leak / oil dripping, I wont touch this until you tell me its time to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
3. The jet size is 102 and not 102.5. Please use the original jet made by Carburettors India Ltd only, there are numerous spurious jets floating around in the market, they will make your life miserable (Jet size is based on mass flow and not diameter, there are many funny stories which have happened with me, but I'll tell you some other time). It is best to take the jet off a scrapped carburettor rather than buying a new one. No other change to the carburettor is necessary, performance and drivability will drastically improve, fuel economy will not be affected. But remember that this will work when all related engine tuning parameters are exactly as per the specification. This reply is due to the learning I got from my carburettor mentor Mr.S.Govindarajan, the then GM(R&D) of Carburettors Ltd, Chennai. Thank you Sir!
Sir, Correct Jet size noted. Will check if I can source one from a carb. On a related note, I filled the tank last week and did 130 kms, and did a full tank again. 13 liters of fuel went into the tank. If I consider the fact that I have idled the car daily for 15 minutes, I am currently getting 10+ kmpl. Of course, assuming the meter in the car is accurate . Need to do a drive with GPS speedometer to validate both distance and speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
5. OK, so you now have the PA12 in place. I can still see the two blue wires just pushed together, remove this nonsense and make a good direct connection. The other brown wire brings 12v to the coil only during cranking and is now redundant but it can remain there as it causes no harm.
6. You must bring everything else to specification, then it will work properly.
Sir, I am attaching below the connection to the coil now. Please let me know if I should change anything:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150823_13_23_25_pro.jpg

I have now got a peculiar problem - the clutch pedal gets stuck sometimes when I push it and wont come back. The spring force is good, but there seems to be some physical obstruction (fouling) - there is an irritating metal-to-metal grinding noise when I operate the pedal. I got out of the signal and when I was shifting to second, the clutch pedal got stuck - was funny for people around but certainly not to me. Attaching the pic of clutch pedal plunger and its window. What can be wrong? Please help:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150821_21_35_39_pro1.jpg

Also, as it was raining yesterday, I did not want to take the car out. As I wanted to try painting the wheels myself (as FINTAIL had posted earlier), I tried it out with the spare wheel. I washed the wheel, wiped it clean, and then with a patti blade, took out all the dust that was accumulated in the weld joint. I used 600 grit sandpaper to polish off rusted areas and then used Rustoleum Titanium Silver to give an overcoat. I am happy with the spray paint, but not with my work. Need practice and patience.
Attached Thumbnails
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_16_26_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_16_35_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_17_49_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_28_49_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_42_30_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_57_48_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_16_57_58_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_17_09_04_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_17_15_39_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_17_31_59_pro.jpg  

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150822_17_32_32_pro.jpg  


Last edited by autocrat : 23rd August 2015 at 15:01.
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Old 24th August 2015, 14:50   #1122
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
1. I am currently getting 10+ kmpl, of course, assuming the meter in the car is accurate. 2. Need to do a drive with GPS speedometer to validate both distance and speed. 3. I am attaching below the connection to the coil now. Please let me know if I should change anything. 4. The clutch pedal gets stuck sometimes when I push it and wont come back. The spring force is good, but there seems to be some physical obstruction (fouling) - there is an irritating metal-to-metal grinding noise when I operate the pedal.
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:

1. You should get 13+ kmpl in normal use if all parameters are at design specification. CSFC (constant speed fuel consumption) reading at 50kmph speed over a distance of 4226m each way taking 304s each way on a dry track with wind velocity below 3m/s (with gusts allowed upto 8m/s) with 375kg payload with 22/28psi tire pressure with 8:1 compression ratio engine with full flow oil filter with 4 bladed plastic fan with dry air cleaner with MCS1061 Solex carburettor with 102 main jet with Lucas TVS 65B distributor with static ignition timing set to 10 degrees BTDC with vacuum advance connected with W7BC spark plugs with 0.9mm plug gap with 4.3:1 axle ratio with 5.20*14 cross ply tires with controlled coefficient of rolling resistance as defined in the NISSAN procedure was "extremely good". I did the test so I know, obviously, I cannot disclose the actual value. Your tires are resoled so you will not get good fuel efficiency as the coefficient of rolling resistance will be nonsensical just now. The best choice is Ceat Safety Drive 5.20*14, see if you can get them. Change to 102 main jet, you will actually get better fuel efficiency due to better drivability, but the jet must be original, not aftermarket. Just imagine when the production car could give this, what the S1 with the 3.9:1 axle ratio with the electric fan with the degassing tank with radial tires on 4J wheel rims with the scavenged exhaust system would have given! .

2. For speedometer calibration, you just need two milestones at some distance apart mentioned on them, note this distance as correct. Drive exactly at indicated 30, 40, 50 or 60 kmph from one milestone to the other. You will need 120s, 90s, 72s or 60s to cover 1km as the case may be. Anything lower or higher indicates variance. 8% "indication on the higher side" as compared to actual is allowed by CMVR. Your car has 4.3:1 axle ratio and fiat transmission, so your instrument cluster W value=1.0. This is punched behind the cluster on the body. W is the number of revolutions that the speedometer cable rotates to indicate 1km distance covered, in this case it is 1000 revolutions per km. For the S1, W value =0.69, means 690 revolutions per km. With correct dynamic rolling radius of the tire, will get around 3% positive reading, which is OK. You don't need GPS to calibrate the speedometer!

3. Yes, the nonsense connection is still there! See the blue wire going to the positive terminal of the coil. Just before it, you can see two white color flat plastic clips. These are for the ballast resistor connection with the 6V coil. As you have the PA12, you don't need this connection, so remove it and throw it out. Connect the main blue wire directly to the coil positive terminal. Any nonsense in any electrical circuit introduces resistance and drops voltage, which must be eliminated. The maximum effect is seen during FTP (full throttle performance) on the engine dynamometer. In the car, the engine never approaches that level of load.

4. The RH edge of the clutch pedal is touching the sheet metal cover screwed to the floor, you can physically see it in the photograph. This is very common in Padminis due to tolerance stack-up in the Y axis. Remove the carpet and the rubber matting and then realign the sheet metal cover to provide good clearance. The ID of the 3 holes will allow this by a small margin. You can cut the W shaped cover a little to get the clearance. I suggest you remove the spire nuts holding the self tapping screws and throw them out, then use M6*1.0 size bolts and nuts to fasten the cover properly. This is a slightly tricky job as it needs two people to do. If you are OK, then do it, otherwise just align the covers.

The whole car is very simple and an absolute delight to work on. You just need the intent and the ownership to do it, that's all. Unfortunately, with garages being what they will always be, both these parameters are in critically short supply, so if you want perfection, do it yourself as a Sunday morning activity. I've been doing it for years. The quiet smile that will come to your face as the car starts delighting you by delivering the "smooth-and-silent-surge-of-power" output will be worth the effort! .

Dear Randomusername - yes, it is 10 degrees BTDC. I believe I have answered most of your other queries also. In case you need anything specific, please ask.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 24th August 2015 at 14:55.
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Old 24th August 2015, 15:14   #1123
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:
4. The RH edge of the clutch pedal is touching the sheet metal cover screwed to the floor, you can physically see it in the photograph. This is very common in Padminis due to tolerance stack-up in the Y axis. Remove the carpet and the rubber matting and then realign the sheet metal cover to provide good clearance. The ID of the 3 holes will allow this by a small margin. You can cut the W shaped cover a little to get the clearance. I suggest you remove the spire nuts holding the self tapping screws and throw them out, then use M6*1.0 size bolts and nuts to fasten the cover properly. This is a slightly tricky job as it needs two people to do. If you are OK, then do it, otherwise just align the covers.
Sir, Sorry I should have explained properly. When I press the clutch pedal, the clearance on RH increases, and at the end of the stroke, the pedal makes a grinding sound and gets stuck. at this point, the pedal is not fouling with the plate. I never got to take a good look at the underchassis :(. I will post a pic with the stuck position soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Unfortunately, with garages being what they will always be, both these parameters are in critically short supply, so if you want perfection, do it yourself as a Sunday morning activity.
Sir totally agree on this. When I got the oil changed, a mechanic took a test drive, the motive of which appeared to be to make the car stand in his garage. I politely stopped him and drove the car back. I have since made a mental note not to go there again.

Last edited by autocrat : 24th August 2015 at 15:21.
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Old 24th August 2015, 17:03   #1124
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
1. When I press the clutch pedal, the clearance on RH increases, and at the end of the stroke, the pedal makes a grinding sound and gets stuck. At this point, the pedal is not fouling with the plate. 2. When I got the oil changed, a mechanic took a test drive, the motive of which appeared to be to make the car stand in his garage. I politely stopped him and drove the car back. I have since made a mental note not to go there again.
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:

1. I know what you are saying. Do what I have told you, it will work. I have done it 500 times.
2. You won't find anyone, you got to do it yourself. This is the bane of people like you and me who want excellence. Sad! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 24th August 2015, 22:12   #1125
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:
1. I know what you are saying. Do what I have told you, it will work. I have done it 500 times
Sir, I removed the accelerator pedal pivot bolt, and took the carpet off. The pedal fouls on the top left corner. As the pedal fouls at the top left and bottom right, I suspect the plate is misaligned, or in worst case the pedal is moving in a different axis. One of the screws retaining the plate was missing. Until I get time to sort this out, I have put things back as they were.

Under the carpets, there is one more layer of carpeting, the material of which I was not able to identify. It is disintegrating and decomposing badly. There is unbelievable amount of dust (ash like, may be fungal matter or asbestos dust) and I simply could not breathe normally. I will attack this on weekend.

Photographs:
Fouling on top left corner of plate:
Attachment 1407028

Attachment 1407029

Missing Screw:
Attachment 1407030

Last edited by autocrat : 24th August 2015 at 22:29.
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