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Old 25th August 2015, 15:07   #1126
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I think its better to get the suspension checked, from rubber bushings to coil spring and damper. Please be present in the garage when they check and ascertain what's the problem. As this problem has recurred, treating symptomatically won't resolve the issue. You will need expert advise to arrive at the root cause.
hi!
So i went to sion koliwada,and they diagnosed it as the front coil springs.
I procured 2 original coil springs from my trusted scrap dealer for Rs. 800.
The mechanic replaced the front springs, labour was Rs. 300.The car was then greased and oiled. now the car sits perfectly level!

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Old 25th August 2015, 15:21   #1127
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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hi!
So i went to sion koliwada,and they diagnosed it as the front coil springs.
I procured 2 original coil springs from my trusted scrap dealer for Rs. 800.
The mechanic replaced the front springs, labour was Rs. 300.The car was then greased and oiled. now the car sits perfectly level!

Glad to know the problem is resolved

What was the problem? Was the spring cut or had it weakened?
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Old 25th August 2015, 15:58   #1128
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I procured 2 original coil springs from my trusted scrap dealer. The mechanic replaced the front springs. Now the car sits perfectly level!
Dear Shom - now you know what was the root cause and how to set it right. Enjoy! .

Dear Gowtham - one of the three screws of the brake and clutch pedal covers falling off is very common. Remove the whole thing, clean it and use M6*1.0 bolts to fix the covers properly. The "brown thing" below the rubber mat is the jute lining. It was an OE fitment from the plant at that time. Please remove it and throw it out, it is not good to breathe. Then paint the floor with antirust paint and make a custom carpet.

Best regards,

Behram

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Old 26th August 2015, 19:13   #1129
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Do the padmini rims take tubeless tyres, has anyone tried it
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Old 27th August 2015, 10:44   #1130
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Do the padmini rims take tubeless tyres, has anyone tried it
Dear Boeuff,

I was also thinking on these lines as rear tyres my car are badly worn. All efforts to get Bias Ply tyres are not yielding results, except for some used retreaded tyres that I don't feel like picking up.

One earlier post in our forum here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...ml#post2691585 (Using Tube in Tubeless Tyre!)

So, its physically possible to fit a tubeless tyre on a padmini rim. However, how good the bead seating will be, and whether air is retained, we can not say. If the rim has rust, then even cleaning and painting it off may not give a surface finish good enough to seal the air.

I plan to pay a visit to Sai Iyengar and Sons (next to IIM on Bannerghatta road) to talk to the owner (who also owned a Padmini until few days ago) to check the feasibility. He is quite knowledgeable on such topics as he has been in the field for a long time.

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Old 27th August 2015, 14:44   #1131
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Boeuff,

I was also thinking on these lines as rear tyres my car are badly worn. All efforts to get Bias Ply tyres are not yielding results, except for some used retreaded tyres that I don't feel like picking up.

One earlier post in our forum here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...ml#post2691585 (Using Tube in Tubeless Tyre!)

So, its physically possible to fit a tubeless tyre on a padmini rim. However, how good the bead seating will be, and whether air is retained, we can not say. If the rim has rust, then even cleaning and painting it off may not give a surface finish good enough to seal the air.

I plan to pay a visit to Sai Iyengar and Sons (next to IIM on Bannerghatta road) to talk to the owner (who also owned a Padmini until few days ago) to check the feasibility. He is quite knowledgeable on such topics as he has been in the field for a long time.
It is very much possible. My car got the tubeless tyres fitted on the padmini rims at the very same Sai Iyengar
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Old 27th August 2015, 16:55   #1132
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dhabhar Sir, are the Padmini rims suitable for tubeless tyre application ? Do you have the data / first hand info, on how the rolling resistance varies with a tube and tubeless type for this application?

Regards
Pratheesh
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Old 27th August 2015, 17:44   #1133
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dhabhar Sir, are the Padmini rims suitable for tubeless tyre application? Do you have the data / first hand information on how the rolling resistance varies with a tube and tubeless type for this application? Regards Pratheesh
Dear Pratheesh - hello after a very long time, how is Germany? . You saw our baby? They had to finally spoil it, but it will sell more now! .

Padmini wheel rims are 3.5J*14 with +31mm offset. They are not suitable for tubeless tire application. I had released the drawing for Padmini wheel rim suitable for tubeless tire with requisite changes in the width, the bead profile and the valve mounting cross sections, we made the samples also but it never got introduced in production. I hereby request anybody who has done the fitment to clearly note that if you fit the tubeless tire, it will physically fit, the car will run also, but it is dangerous to run the car with this configuration. So what to do? Normally people fit 165/65R14 radial tires removed from brand new Swift cars, in Padminis. The market solution is very simple but it is not an engineering solution. Just buy 4 numbers of 165*14 size tubes and use them. They are readily available. And, you are allowed to put tubes in tubeless tires, the car will run. The engineering solution is given below.

The coefficient of rolling resistance of a Padmini weighing 895kg with tubed radial tires will be in the range of 0.0185 to 0.0205. Tubeless radial tires were tried on the Padmini on the VRDE track, the coefficient of rolling resistance was in the region of 0.0145 to 0.0165. The wheel rim was 4J and not 3.5J. 165/65R14 calls for 4.5J / 4J, 3.5J is allowed as an alternate only. This is the engineering solution. 3.5J wheel rim gave inferior handling performance, as expected.

Dear Gowtham - very good condition used tires are still available in Mumbai. Tell me if you want them, I'll find out. Don't use resoled tires, they are nonsense!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS: please do send a message on my e-mail ID. I am sending the ID to you.
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Old 27th August 2015, 19:16   #1134
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Pratheesh - hello after a very long time, how is Germany? . You saw our baby? They had to finally spoil it, but it will sell more now! .
Hello Sir, I've settled down in Stuttgart, Germany. Now looking for a "Fräulein" with a BMW / Porsche / Merc to finally settle down for life.

Quote:
Padmini wheel rims are 3.5J*14 with +31mm offset. They are not suitable for tubeless tire application.
I knew the answer, just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth.

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PS: please do send a message on my e-mail ID. I am sending the ID to you.
Got your PM, will do.

Pratheesh
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Old 28th August 2015, 10:52   #1135
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Hello Sir, I've settled down in Stuttgart, Germany. Now looking for a "Fräulein" with a BMW / Porsche / Merc to finally settle down for life. I knew the answer, just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth. Pratheesh
Dear Pratheesh - hahaha! Be careful. "Fräulein" with a BMW/Porsche/Mercedes is all fine but "Fräuleins" come with huge price tags. Be careful, otherwise you'll be seen sitting outside Stuttgart station one day. "Penn" is better, look for one out there! I got the Mallu word from one of my Mallu colleagues here! .

I know that you knew the answer for the wheel rim, you wanted to hear it once more in "engineering terms", so thanks! . I guess that's what I am trying to do, explain to people not to deviate from engineering principles. If people understand, they will benefit, if they don't, its their call!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 28th August 2015, 23:16   #1136
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Gowtham - very good condition used tires are still available in Mumbai. Tell me if you want them, I'll find out. Don't use resoled tires, they are nonsense!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir,

Thanks a lot, I will be happy to get a good set of tyres!

Although unplanned, I (finally) got the washing and greasing done

Work done today:
1) Washing
2) Interiors cleaned with compressed air
3) Greasing
4) Engine Oil, Gear Box Oil, Differential Oil changed (Had run ~200 kms on engine oil, it had picked up some sooty colour again, but not as bad as before). The new oil is still clear after about 70 km running today.
5) Water drained from cooling system and filled up (drain was clogged with rust)
6) Electrical contacts on distributor and near spark plugs cleaned.

Difference:
1) Car running smoother.
2) Lot of underbody creaking sounds disappeared. However, I get "thud thud thud" sound (sharp multiple hits) when I drive on uneven road. Its similar to lower arm / ball joint sounds in my Indica, but I feel it may also be the exhaust pipe thats lost some rubber suspenders.
3) Noticed that some chassis rubber is damaged / worn out.
4) Clutch pedal not sticking after I realigned the W plate. However I am yet to fix the plates with bolts. Planned for tomorrow.
5) I feel car is running slightly cooler too, but as I have no data of ambient temperature, I cant really prove this.
6) Brakes have become sharper.

The purr of the engine when I do 40 kmph in 4th gear - awesome
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Old 29th August 2015, 07:25   #1137
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Wonder if the fiat fuses are available anywhere. I still have the original fuses in mine but would like to keep some spares.
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Old 29th August 2015, 11:30   #1138
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Water drained from cooling system and filled up, the drain was clogged with rust. Electrical contacts on distributor and near spark plugs cleaned. Car is running smoother and slightly cooler too, but as I have no data of ambient temperature, I cant really prove this. Brakes have become sharper. The purr of the engine when I do 40 kmph in 4th gear is awesome.
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:

1. Cooling system: please repeat the water drain process from the drain plug located on the left hand side of the cylinder block (below the distributor). Do this on a dead cold engine only. Take a 14mm spanner and very slowly (to prevent any thread damage) remove the complete drain plug. Due to excessive rust inside the water jackets, no water will come out when you do this for the first time. Put a thin rod in the hole in the cylinder block and force the rust out. Mucky and brown water will start flowing. Remove the radiator cap to ensure drain with full force. Keep on adding fresh water in the radiator, keeping the drain hole open. Blow into the radiator neck and see the amount of rust pieces (yes, pieces) which will come out. You will have to do this continuously for about 10 to 15 minutes to remove most of the rust. Then wash the drain plug in fresh water and refit it. Fill the radiator with fresh water, start the engine and check, cross-check and double check for leaks. Clean the radiator cap under a tap in fresh water, operate the pressure and vacuum valves in it by hand, to ensure that there is no rust trapped inside the rubber seal etc. When the engine starts and the water pump sucks the water in the cooling system, water level in the radiator will fall slightly. Refill to full position and close the pressure cap. In case you remove the radiator for some reason, go to the friendly neighbourhood radiatorwallah and remove its drain plug completely. Tell him to solder a piece of brass in its place. Radiator drain plug soldering reliability is not good, therefore I have physically removed it from all my cars. Use JIS specification wire clips for clamping the hoses. The size is 1.5 inches. See Maruti 800 car for reference, although there the size is smaller. Use new EPDM material hoses, cut-off the excessive length if necessary to avoid kinks in the assembly. Check the fan belt, I have already provided details. Use the S1 alternator mounting cast iron bracket and brace for perfect mounting and belt line. If the water pump is original and good, leave it alone. As you have recently serviced the car, the muck on the radiator fins would be gone now so the car runs at the correct temperature. Whew!

2. Electricals: Please remove the nonsense in the wire carrying current to the ignition coil. Clean electrical connections will always work properly.

3. Brakes: Check the front wheel bearings for axial clearance. With the steering in straight ahead position, hold the front tire at its top with both hands and rock it, you will feel the clearance on your hands. Remove the grease cup and the split pin holding the front wheel bearings, then use a 24mm size spanner to adjust the pre-load of the taper roller bearings to zero by feel. This will give you the actual clearance of about 20 microns if you measure with a dial gage. Do not over-tighten the nut, this will destroy the taper roller bearings, they must operate at design preload. Water entering the brake drums during servicing removes residual dust from inside the drums so the brakes feel sharper.

Please post photographs of all 5 tires of the car, I will decide how to proceed. Now your engine has started purring and you are still to adjust everything to specification, do it and see, then it will roar and the car will fly! Then fit the S1 exhaust system and see what happens! You won't feel like driving anything else! .

Dear Boeuff - hello after a very long time, your car looks really nice! Fiat fuses are not available any more, however the complete fuse box is still available sometimes but with Maruti fuses inside. In all my cars, I have changed-over to Maruti 800 fuse boxes mounted inside the instrument panel with a simple bracket. The fuse box and its lid in the engine compartment are dummies. Please post some more photographs of the oil filter return line, I want to see the plumbing.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 29th August 2015, 17:26   #1139
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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[b][u]

Dear Boeuff - hello after a very long time, your car looks really nice! Fiat fuses are not available any more, however the complete fuse box is still available sometimes but with Maruti fuses inside. In all my cars, I have changed-over to Maruti 800 fuse boxes mounted inside the instrument panel with a simple bracket. The fuse box and its lid in the engine compartment are dummies. Please post some more photographs of the oil filter return line, I want to see the plumbing.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Behram Dhabar, thank you,
I will get more detailed pictures next week as I am travelling now. However what I did was to cannibalize the plumbing from the old filter housing and brazed it to the same position in the new one. Also made sure that the orifice sizes are maintained per original including the one on the central pillar of the old filter housing. Used a braided plastic hose in place of the rubber original and it sits without any kink. One interesting lesson learnt was that we have to blank both the filter mounting holes in the head as we tested with the new mounted using only one of the two holes and oil leaked from the bottom hole.
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Old 30th August 2015, 11:14   #1140
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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One interesting lesson learnt was that we have to blank both the filter mounting holes in the head as we tested with the new mounted using only one of the two holes and oil leaked from the bottom hole.
Dear Boeuff - thanks for the clarification. These two bosses on the LH side of the cylinder head with the M8*1.25 size threaded holes open into the cylinder number 1 pushrod hole ID, so if there is no blanking here, the oil will leak. These holes were used to mount the bypass oil filter. These are from the original Fiat design, where the bracket itself acted as a blank. When we changed-over to the full flow oil filter in 1986, there was a proposal to delete these bosses completely, but then there was an issue to mount the fuel line locating clip in production, because in the original Fiat layout, the fuel line was located on the oil filter mounting bracket which got deleted in 1986. Also, these holes were used by aftermarket AC fitment guys for mounting the compressor bracket. When I did the S1 project, I used them to mount the NISSAN specification fuel filter on the delivery side of the fuel pump for non-AC cars. Then, when I did the factory fitted AC project in 1988, I used these bosses to mount the compressor. The OE design was different from the aftermarket contraptions but I also used the bosses. In view of all these four requirements, the whole thing with machining was retained.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 30th August 2015 at 11:15.
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