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Old 8th September 2015, 09:01   #1156
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir, thanks a lot! Is this the correct type for the Lucas sealed beam?:

Attachment 1411585

I am still not clear on how the bulb gets located / retained in the sealed beam :(
This notch / projection aligns the bulb inside the sealed beam. Check the sealed beam. You will be able to find a matching slot for this notch in the bulb.
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The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-p45t.jpg  

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Old 8th September 2015, 09:12   #1157
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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This notch / projection aligns the bulb inside the sealed beam. Check the sealed beam. You will be able to find a matching slot for this notch in the bulb.
Thanks Sir!

I will need to get those Lucas sealed beams before they are gone then.
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Old 8th September 2015, 10:54   #1158
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear Behram Sir, Ilango Sir,

I think I went grossly wrong somewhere in my understanding. May be I assumed too much.

Here is the Lumax sealed beam from my car:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150908_10_12_52_pro.jpg

The Lucas one I saw in the shop has EXACTLY the same mount.

However, the dia of the flange plates is totally different as seen in below pic:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150908_10_15_03_pro.jpg

As outlined by Behram Sir, this type is now obsolete. So getting those Lucas beams with this mount is useless.

So finally, dawns upon me that I need to get Lucas sealed beam with P43T or P45T mount (now that I know the difference and that both will work).

I will preserve the Lumax sealed beams with the bulbs and connectors for posterity. Apparently, the bulbs have never been changed from 1992. Only Behram Sir can tell if its OE. There is no manufacturer marking on the bulb, neither anything mentioned about the wattage.

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Old 8th September 2015, 12:12   #1159
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I need to get Lucas sealed beam with P43t or P45t mount.
Dear Gowtham - your above comment is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. When you go to the shop, you will see that these Lucas headlights will be suitable for P45t only, not for P43t. You are lucky that these headlights are still available. Look for one more thing, they should not have the small lights arrangement in them. If they do not have the small lights arrangement in them, then only please buy 1 set for me also, I'll pick them up when I am in Bangalore next time. Please tell me the price on the telephone before you pick them up, I will not pay any exorbitant price for them.

Next thing on headlights, please buy 140W or 130W bulbs, 100W will not be good enough. If GE made in Holland bulbs are not available (they are very rare to find and when I bought them 10 years back from Opera House, they had cost me a bomb each), Philips is good enough. Then get the FINOLEX 84 wires, they cost a lot, so ensure that they are FINOLEX only. Then spend minimum 5 days of backbreaking work on the car to make a new loom and tape it perfectly. Then see how your headlights get transformed. Enjoy! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 8th September 2015, 12:34   #1160
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Gowtham
If they do not have the small lights arrangement in them, then only please buy 1 set for me also, I'll pick them up when I am in Bangalore next time. Please tell me the price on the telephone before you pick them up, I will not pay any exorbitant price for them.
Sure Sir! I just called the dealer of Lucas for Lucas with P45T mount and he told me that the manufacturing was discontinued 10 years back. He will check with the distributor if any any dealer in any remote part still has stock and confirm. I am not giving up my hunt for them.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Next thing on headlights, please buy 140W or 130W bulbs, 100W will not be good enough. If GE made in Holland bulbs are not available (they are very rare to find and when I bought them 10 years back from Opera House, they had cost me a bomb each), Philips is good enough. Then get the FINOLEX 84 wires, they cost a lot, so ensure that they are FINOLEX only. Then spend minimum 5 days of backbreaking work on the car to make a new loom and tape it perfectly. Then see how your headlights get transformed. Enjoy! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
I could locate some GE 140/100 bulbs on amazon.in but they are P43T mount. I have asked my dad to pick up Finolex 84 wires and a good soldering iron. I need to wait for reflector and bulb, but at least I can work on the loom

Last edited by autocrat : 8th September 2015 at 12:36.
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Old 9th September 2015, 12:24   #1161
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear Friends,

My experience in searching for parts in the last few days, I have come across many places who take advantage of our ignorance or belief that parts are rarely available, and try to fleece us knowing that we are at their mercy for parts.

To counter this, I try to call up the place beforehand (where I can locate numbers, or have collected number on previous visits) I try to find out the price. Many a times you will find a huge difference in price for same part made by same company.

I burnt my fingers a few times but we eventually find the good ones. A prominent and popular dealer off J C Road quoted 1250 for a Lucas coil.

I was able to source an original Lucas (how do I know? He gave a legal VAT bill) here:

Karuna Motors (TVS-Lucas / Bosch / Denso / Delphi TVS Dealer),
#47/1, H. Siddaiah Road, Bangalore 560027
Ph: 080 22222376

(Only few hundred meters from Urvashi theater)

This is also the place I went for my Lucas headlight search. The guy responds to and answers queries on phone.

I hope this information will be useful.

Warm Regards,
Goutham

Last edited by autocrat : 9th September 2015 at 12:27.
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Old 9th September 2015, 18:58   #1162
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Friends, my experience in searching for parts in the last few days, I have come across many places who take advantage of our ignorance or belief that parts are rarely available, and try to fleece us knowing that we are at their mercy for parts. I hope this information will be useful. Warm Regards, Goutham
Dear Gowtham - I am not surprised! Rather, if this did not happen, I would be surprised. I would like to use this post to make people aware of the absolute lack of product interest on the part of most of the shopkeepers who sell the products to us. I am mentioning an exception below, not the rule:

Yesterday, I went as a customer to buy a brand new battery for my 1964 model fiat MRY3112. I went to the main Amaron dealer in Pune. I told him exactly what I wanted, what JIS, what container size, what Ah capacity, what orientation of the positive terminal, and found that the battery which met the exact specification that I wanted is not being made by Amaron at all. The dealer was extremely good and helpful to me. The Amaron engineer also spoke to me. Both of them did not try to push any other product. Overall, it was a good experience, so I am sharing, but finally I had to walk out as I did not get the product that I wanted. Now, tomorrow, I will have to find out whether Exide makes exactly what I want, let's see. But for one such good experience, I have come across hundreds of shopkeepers who know absolutely nothing and are not even interested in knowing! Go to buy a spark plug, "short thread or long thread?" is all that the guy will ask. Just mention the words "heat range", and see the blank look on the guy's face, PRICELESS! I do it every time, without fail, just to enjoy! Forget normal shops, this has happened to me in the MICO shop in Pune also! Then I ask for the catalogue, which is invariably not there, or it is half torn, or it is not updated, then I get a discourse on why I need not ask for the catalogue, then I ask for Bosch W7BC and buyout the whole box if the guy has them, (small mercies)! He gets his money, but he has no ghost of an idea which vehicle I will use them in, and why I bought the whole box! By the way, on the W7BC box, "Premier Padmini" is written! Hahaha, ENJOY! .

The best way is to establish a rapport with your regular guys and tell them to get exactly what you want. With my guys in Mumbai, I have been doing it for more than 35 years now. In their shops, I am king of the whole area, every garage, every shop! I guess I'll have to buy the battery in Mumbai and take it to Pune, where my cars are garaged!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th September 2015, 22:13   #1163
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Gowtham -
Overall, it was a good experience, so I am sharing, but finally I had to walk out as I did not get the product that I wanted.
Sir, I remember this every time I open the bonnet, and I will never forget whats the correct specification and orientation for my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Go to buy a spark plug, "short thread or long thread?" is all that the guy will ask. Just mention the words "heat range", and see the blank look on the guy's face, PRICELESS! I do it every time, without fail, just to enjoy! Forget normal shops, this has happened to me in the MICO shop in Pune also! Then I ask for the catalogue, which is invariably not there, or it is half torn, or it is not updated, then I get a discourse on why I need not ask for the catalogue, then I ask for Bosch W7BC and buyout the whole box if the guy has them, (small mercies)! He gets his money, but he has no ghost of an idea which vehicle I will use them in, and why I bought the whole box! By the way, on the W7BC box, "Premier Padmini" is written! Hahaha, ENJOY! .
I got the experience today when I called for Finolex wire. I told him part number should start with 2307, automotive application, 84x0.31, he did not know any, but when i tell him 6 square mm, he suddenly understood what I wanted

Sir on the topic of spark plugs, this is how one of them in my car looks:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150808_11_03_16_pro.jpg

The punching is W7A... wrong type?

Also, is the mixture very rich? I don't know when was the last time it was cleaned, so this is also on the DIY plan. Can I make the mixture leaner by using the air screw out? How to go back to factory setting?

Is it possible to approximately set the idling to 720 rpm, without any aids like tachometer, by purely carb settings?

To check tappet clearance, I do not have feeler gauges. If I take my car to garage, then
1) Engine is no longer in cold condition to set at 0.1mm (must be dead cold but will clatter after warm up - i remember)
2) None of the people know how to set this on running engine - they all give a bewildered look when I ask them.

Then, getting back to the topic of lights, there is one retaining ring which is holding the sealed beam in place with the help of 3 tiny screws that are very easy to lose if they fall down. This ring is in turn sitting on another ring thats mounted on springs, for adjusting beam.

Question: The spring loaded plate is having a slot that can be used to turn the beam, and at one end opens into a hole. Is this for changing bulb? I dont want to open things I cant put back without help.

Last edited by autocrat : 9th September 2015 at 22:18.
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Old 10th September 2015, 10:30   #1164
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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1. On the topic of spark plugs, this is how one of them in my car looks. The punching is W7A, wrong type? Also, is the mixture very rich? I don't know when was the last time it was cleaned, so this is also on the DIY plan. Can I make the mixture leaner by using the air screw out? How to go back to factory setting? Is it possible to approximately set the idling to 720 rpm, without any aids like tachometer, by purely carb settings? To check tappet clearance, I do not have feeler gauges. If I take my car to the garage, then the engine will no longer be in cold condition to set at 0.1mm. None of the people know how to set tappets on a running engine, they all give a bewildered look when I ask them. On lights, there is one retaining ring which is holding the sealed beam in place with the help of 3 tiny screws that are very easy to lose if they fall down. This ring is in turn sitting on another ring thats mounted on springs, for adjusting the beam. The plate has a slot that can be used to turn the beam, and at one end opens into a hole. Is this for changing bulb? I dont want to open things I cant put back without help.
Dear Gowtham - the spark plugs are W175Z1, which are the very old specification plugs, so they have never been changed. You need Bosch W7BC, but be careful from where you buy them because of rampant duplicating. There is no immediate need to change the spark plugs just for the heck of it. Go step-by-step, then we will see, W175Z1s have worked for years, I don't see why they should not work now. The car is running very rich because you have still not set the tappets. As the engine runs, the tappet clearance will reduce because of normal rate of wear of the complete valve train interface components. So, setting is required, do the setting exactly as I want. No compromise. There are two screws on the carburettor, one to adjust the throttle location and the other to set the idling mixture quantity, called the "volume control screw". You can set the idling rpm to 720 +/-20 by adjusting these screws, but till you do everything that I have detailed, you will not get a perfect job. Obviously nobody will know how to set tappets on a running engine because they would never have done it, I guess this is something that I'll need to show you when I am in Bangalore next time! . The headlight beam is held by two rings assembled by 3 small screws. There are slots in both the rings which align with the three numbers of step mountings provided on the beam. These mountings are not equidistant, so the rings will sit only in one position on the beam, which will give upright stance of the beam when assembled on the car. To remove and refit the assembly from the car, it is necessary to push the beam a little inside and rotate it anticlockwise till the heads of the M5*0.8 size screws align with the holes at the end of the slots, then remove or refit. Ensure that the two rings are original, aftermarket ones are absolutely useless, nothing will align with anything, so don't waste your money in buying parts which will not work. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 10th September 2015, 11:00   #1165
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Gowtham Obviously nobody will know how to set tappets on a running engine because they would never have done it, I guess this is something that I'll need to show you when I am in Bangalore next time! .
Behram Dhabhar
Sir, Looking forward to your visit, it will be great

FCB has planned a meet on 27th of this month. The cast on my foot will be removed on 26th if the healing is on track, so I am working hard (by resting my foot) to meet this deadline
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Old 10th September 2015, 11:30   #1166
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread



I don't own a Fiat 1100, nor do I think I will in the near future, although I do love the car and the very first car in our family was a 1973 Premier President.

But the real reason I visit this thread whenever I see an update, is only in the hope that there is yet another knowledge-filled post from DHABHAR.BEHRAM.

Thank you Sir!

End of OT.
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Old 10th September 2015, 12:26   #1167
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:

Thank you Sir!

End of OT.
Hi Viju,

Nice to see you here

I have read your restoration threads on RD125, RX135, RD200, and also your parting message. Also restoring your fathers scooter - which is all brilliant work.

I hope you can pick up a few Premier Padminis too in future

All the best,
GOutham
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Old 12th September 2015, 14:15   #1168
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Gowtham -
These mountings are not equidistant, so the rings will sit only in one position on the beam, which will give upright stance of the beam when assembled on the car.
Best regards,
Behram Dhabhar
Dear Behram Sir,

I had not observed that the points are not equidistant - thanks - such a simple way for foolproofing

I assembled the headlights with a temporary harness, and I am not sure how I can route the wiring to the right headlight, as the relay sits on the left. Should I take wires behind the firewall / bulkhead? The current routing is from behind the bonnet support lever base and its definitely not the correct place. The bulbs seen in the pic below are Osram 100/90. Once I have the proper harness ready, I will deploy the GE 140 / 100 which are safely kept in the glove box for now

(100/90 by itself is quite bright, 140/100 will be ballistic ) Needless to say, I will be using only low-beam in city unless I need to discipline unruly headlights from opp direction.

Learning the hard way - the pitch is not uniform:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150909_18_20_27_pro.jpg

Does not look good, but a good soldering joint is one where the solder melts on the hot copper wire heated by the iron and then flows into the joint, by the capillary action - my father taught me this when I was 4 years old.
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150909_19_53_11_pro.jpg

Taped up, but not a great job:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150909_19_54_48_pro.jpg

High Beam:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150909_0101.jpg

Low Beam, neat cut off from Osram 100/90, like a projector one:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150909_0111.jpg

The white balance on the phone tends to make the light whiter than in reality.

Fixed the rings:
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150911_004.jpg

And finally, the offending part from the coil wire is gone. I tried to make a loop, solder it and fit it, but the wire turned out to be too short. I took the part with the connector and soldered it and connected to coil. The car started fine.

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150912_12_54_23_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150912_13_02_34_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150912_13_04_35_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20150912_13_17_46_pro.jpg

The horn ground was not working for one, and that was plugged in and I get a melodious 2 tone now.

Till I do up the custom wiring for 140/100 on Lucas beams, nothing more on electrical setup to do other than changing side repeater bulbs that have fused.

Last edited by autocrat : 12th September 2015 at 14:20.
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Old 12th September 2015, 15:37   #1169
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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I don't own a Fiat 1100, nor do I think I will in the near future, although I do love the car and the very first car in our family was a 1973 Premier President.
Dear Viju - hello to you on a thread different from Thar! . Thank you Viju, for making me feel nice!

Dear Gowtham - the relay has two wires coming out, one for the low beam and one for the high beam. These wires must be connected to the FINOLEX 84 wires, two each for the LH and RH low beams and two each for the LH and RH high beams. Please remove the headlight wires if they have been routed from behind the front grille, all garages do this nonsense. Route and tape the wires from inside the car, behind the glove box and above the steering column. It is back-breaking work of 5 days, do it, when you finish, you will be exhausted, but you will love what you have done. Coil wire must be soldered to a round connector, taped properly and then fixed by using an 8mm size spanner.

When you open the bonnet, people must say, "WOW"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th September 2015, 17:09   #1170
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Viju - hello to you on a thread different from Thar! . Thank you Viju, for making me feel nice!

Dear Gowtham -Please remove the headlight wires if they have been routed from behind the front grille, all garages do this nonsense. Route and tape the wires from inside the car, behind the glove box and above the steering column. It is back-breaking work of 5 days, do it, when you finish, you will be exhausted, but you will love what you have done. Coil wire must be soldered to a round connector, taped properly and then fixed by using an 8mm size spanner.

When you open the bonnet, people must say, "WOW"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir indeed the low beam wire was routed from behind the front grill, I have removed that. The temporary harness is routed from the side, to behind the bonnet support lever base, to the relay. To be honest this is also nonsense, but better than old setup. I will route the wire from inside the car, I need to rework the length of cable I need.

Also I have now observed that both rear indicator lights glow at a very low intensity even when neither indicators are on. Should I look near the combi-switch for some shorting?
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