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Old 9th October 2015, 15:28   #1231
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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There are at least 30 Mercs in the parking lot and none get the attention my car got today. Love the car.
Dear Gowtham - now you know why the whole thing is worth it, isn't it? The best thing is yet to come, today you have said you love the car, start using it more and more, you'll start loving yourself! This is the definition of an automobile, made by passionate people who love automobiles.

Alas, today's "toys" are made by program managers, either they will never understand, or they have been conditioned never to understand! Times have changed, a whole generation has changed. I really wish people minimize making presentations and do some effective work for a change! Tell that to people in your office parking lot when they admire your car, tell them that I told you to tell them, maybe something good will come out of it! .

Best regards,

Behram
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Old 9th October 2015, 22:23   #1232
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham - now you know why the whole thing is worth it, isn't it? The best thing is yet to come, today you have said you love the car, start using it more and more, you'll start loving yourself! This is the definition of an automobile, made by passionate people who love automobiles.
Yes sir, planning to drive more often and longer. The more I drive, the more we understand each other. I have learnt a few things the car likes to do and few things it doesn't. On the way back the left wheels hit a deep pothole at 50 kmph, and the car handled it well. No drama or fuss. When I got the car, I used to drive gingerly, always worrying about breaking something if I pushed the car a bit. Now I feel my fear was unfounded. The car urges me to push it, and I do it.

I have learnt to check the radiator water level, engine oil level, brake fluid level before every drive.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Alas, today's "toys" are made by program managers, either they will never understand, or they have been conditioned never to understand! Times have changed, a whole generation has changed. I really wish people minimize making presentations and do some effective work for a change! Tell that to people in your office parking lot when they admire your car, tell them that I told you to tell them, maybe something good will come out of it! .

Best regards,

Behram
One security guard asked me why such cars are not being made now. He told me lot of people took pics of and with the car

I just hope some of them get motivated to rescue a Fiat and love it. Lot of people tell me "Oh, we had one too, we sold ours for xxxxx, n years back, wish we had kept it" - I don't know how to react, but just tell them to get one if they can.
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Old 10th October 2015, 10:54   #1233
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Lot of people tell me "Oh, we had one too, we sold ours for xxxxx some years back, wish we had kept it" - I don't know how to react, but just tell them to get one if they can.
Dear Gowtham - hahaha, this is nothing new for me. This happens all the time. I also tell them to acquire one, and I also tell them to shift from the "I had one" club to the "I will always have one" club!

Recently while driving down from Pune to Mumbai with my recently acquired 1986 model car with absolutely nothing done to it (yet), I got a lot of comments when I stopped on the expressway M/CDonalds, where people told me that "your car is in excellent condition". "Oh yeah? You ain't seen' nothin' yet!"

.

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Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th October 2015, 08:39   #1234
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b][u]

"Oh yeah? You ain't seen' nothin' yet!"

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir we are eagerly waiting for the updates now
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Old 12th October 2015, 13:35   #1235
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir we are eagerly waiting for the updates now
Dear Gowtham - as "Arnold" says in "Yes Minister, "Good Question - Very Good Question"! .

This time I am going to do it differently. I have understood now that I have a small problem. I can't really use any of my restored cars, I can't take them in traffic, I can't park them anywhere unattended, so what's the point? So, this time I wanted to make a "daily driver", that's why I bought it. Outside appearance is going to be my last priority. However, mechanically and electrically it will be perfect as usual, with all major aggregates critically attended to provide new-like performance. Right now its WIP, my critical path is availability of time! I used it yesterday in Mumbai, it now runs much better than what it used to run, when I got it! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 12th October 2015 at 13:36.
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Old 12th October 2015, 20:11   #1236
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
The Distributor:
I Have Yet To Come Across A Single Mechanic Who "does Not Put Grease" In The Distributor. It Is Common Sense. The Centrifugal Advance Can Only Work If The Weights Fly Apart. How Will The Weights Ever Fly If They Are Constrained By Grease ? Then Everybody Blames The Car. A "greased" Distributor Takes Around 4 Hours To Clean. I Have The Patience To Do All This.
We recently got our distributor "rebuilt" and the place that changed the distributor shaft bushing had put grease on the weights and springs when they returned it. The mechanic wiped off some of the major chunks of grease but quite a lot still remained. Here is a picture taken after getting it back with the new bushing:

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-20150818-16.07.59.jpg

Afterwards we managed to get a new-old-stock Lucas distributor that we are planning to install (and keep the old one as a spare). It will need to be cleaned up and lubricated so this time I wanted to clarify what the proper thing to do was for the centrifugal weights/springs. Is a very light coat of grease OK or should it be lubricated only with oil?
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Old 13th October 2015, 08:50   #1237
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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We recently got our distributor "rebuilt" and the place that changed the distributor shaft bushing had put grease on the weights and springs when they returned it. The mechanic wiped off some of the major chunks of grease but quite a lot still remained. Here is a picture taken after getting it back with the new bushing:
Even now it looks like lot of grease. A think film just enough to ensure a non-sticky motion of springs & weights is recommended. Not so much that the effective mass of the centrifugal weights itself is increased.
Looks like there is still lot more grease to be wiped off from the bottom of the distributor.
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Old 13th October 2015, 10:59   #1238
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by RandomUsername View Post
We recently got our distributor "rebuilt" and the place that changed the distributor shaft bushing. I wanted to clarify what the proper thing to do was for the centrifugal weights/springs. Is a very light coat of grease OK or should it be lubricated only with oil?
Dear RandonUsername - distributor bush must never be replaced, you will never get the dwell angle correctly now. Please put a new distributor, it is still available at Dharamtar Auto Stores in Opera House who is the distributor for Lucas TVS products in Mumbai. Grease must not be used, please lubricate the shaft and centrifugal weights by using a little engine oil. Excess oil will drain out from the two small holes provided at the bottom of the distributor body, please keep these holes clear of grease! Take a matchstick and remove the grease from the holes. If excess oil remains in the distributor body, it will come on the contact breaker and cause misfiring.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 13th October 2015, 15:21   #1239
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear RandonUsername - distributor bush must never be replaced, you will never get the dwell angle correctly now. Please put a new distributor, it is still available at Dharamtar Auto Stores in Opera House who is the distributor for Lucas TVS products in Mumbai. Grease must not be used, please lubricate the shaft and centrifugal weights by using a little engine oil. Excess oil will drain out from the two small holes provided at the bottom of the distributor body, please keep these holes clear of grease! Take a matchstick and remove the grease from the holes. If excess oil remains in the distributor body, it will come on the contact breaker and cause misfiring.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks for the clarification Sir. I have already gotten the new Distributor and will get it put in soon.
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The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-20151013-14.40.19.jpg  

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Old 13th October 2015, 16:06   #1240
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b][u]
Please put a new distributor, it is still available at Dharamtar Auto Stores in Opera House who is the distributor for Lucas TVS products in Mumbai.
Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, What is the indicative price for a Lucas distributor? I want to buy a spare one and keep.

Also, is there a standard setting for the vacuum advance knob? How many degrees advance does the vacuum advance provide? Is there any way to check if the vacuum advance is working or not? Please guide us.
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Old 14th October 2015, 10:46   #1241
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir, What is the indicative price for a Lucas distributor? I want to buy a spare one and keep. Also, is there a standard setting for the vacuum advance knob? How many degrees advance does the vacuum advance provide? Is there any way to check if the vacuum advance is working or not? Please guide us.
Dear Gowtham - I bought the last distributor for around 2500 rupees a couple of years back, I don't know today's price, it may be a little higher.

The standard setting for the vacuum knob is midway between the stops to facilitate fine adjustment. Vacuum advance was provided mainly to optimize the centrifugal advance for meeting the then emission norms of 1991 and 1996 (pre-BS1), therefore there are 3 types of vacuum advance distributors, I had mentioned all this somewhere in this thread itself, I am giving the information again:

1. Lucas TVS number ending with "65A", 13 degrees on camshaft centrifugal advance to meet the 1991 emission norms with MCS1069 BICSA carburettor. Set static advance to 10 degrees BTDC.

2. Lucas TVS number ending with "65B", 13 degrees on camshaft centrifugal advance with intermediate advance characteristics to meet the 1991 emission norms with MCS1069 BICSA carburettor and also to prevent premature detonation. Set static advance to 10 degrees BTDC.

3. Lucas TVS number ending with "90A", 9 degrees on camshaft centrifugal advance with AVL characteristics to meet the 1996 emission norms with MCS1069 BICSA carburettor with delay valve and throttle opener suitable for optimized intake ports with modified swirl, optimized camshaft with larger breathing and optimized valve geometry of the AVL S1 engine. Set static advance to 7 degrees BTDC. This distributor will not provide optimized performance in non-S1 engine, people increase static advance to compensate, the car will run, but not optimally.

To know whether vacuum advance is working, disconnect the vacuum inlet at the diaphragm, the ignition timing will change. Vacuum pipe take-off at the carburettor is just above the throttle plate, so the curve drops as the throttle opens and centrifugal advance takes over. I hope this clarifies. Maybe not, if you are more confused than before, please ask, I will explain from first principles.

Dear RandonUsername - please check the new distributor. If it is 90A, you know what to do. . If your car is not S1, you must use 65A or 65B. 65B is better.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 14th October 2015, 12:03   #1242
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

To know whether vacuum advance is working, disconnect the vacuum inlet at the diaphragm, the ignition timing will change. Vacuum pipe take-off at the carburettor is just above the throttle plate, so the curve drops as the throttle opens and centrifugal advance takes over. I hope this clarifies. Maybe not, if you are more confused than before, please ask, I will explain from first principles.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, thanks a lot for the explanation and details, very helpful!

Here is what I understood:

1) The centrifugal advance provides a gradual advance as the engine rpm increases from idle to max rpm (10 degrees at idling to 13 degrees at redline) (I am assuming static advance advance means advance at idling).
2) As the engine rpm increases, the velocity of air increases, and at venturi, the max velocity is at the narrowest section. This results in a pressure drop (Bernoulli's Principle) and resulting vacuum is used to pull a diaphragm in the distributor that will change the advance. The screw on the shaft can be used to preset the diaphragm position (fine adjustment).

Sir, Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

I will need to check what distributor is fitted on my car. I will search for 65B to keep as spare. I also need to buy some point sets.

Last edited by autocrat : 14th October 2015 at 12:08.
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Old 14th October 2015, 13:32   #1243
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Dear RandonUsername - please check the new distributor. If it is 90A, you know what to do. . If your car is not S1, you must use 65A or 65B. 65B is better.
The new distributor is a 65B.
One thing I'm not sure about is how to set the timing to exactly 10 degrees BTDC? As the car is a '62 Super Select the only mark on the pulley will be for TDC right?
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Old 17th October 2015, 10:10   #1244
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
Here is what I understood:

1) The centrifugal advance provides a gradual advance as the engine rpm increases from idle to max rpm, 10 degrees at idling to 13 degrees at redline.
2) I am assuming static advance advance means advance at idling.
3) As the engine rpm increases, the velocity of air increases, and at venturi, the max velocity is at the narrowest section. This results in a pressure drop (Bernoulli's Principle) and resulting vacuum is used to pull a diaphragm in the distributor that will change the advance.
4) The screw on the shaft can be used to preset the diaphragm position (fine adjustment).
Dear Gowtham - my reply is as follows:

1) Partially correct. Centrifugal advance provides a gradual advance as the engine rpm increases from idle to max rpm, 10 degrees at idling - is correct - to 13 degrees at redline - is incorrect. Static ignition timing is 10 degrees BTDC means 10 degrees crankshaft angle. 13 degrees at redline means distributor shaft angle, so it is 26 degrees at the crankshaft. Remember, the distributor rpm to crankshaft rpm ratio is 1:2 for 4 stroke cycle. If you have 13 degrees at the crankshaft, the engine won't run, the spark will be too retarded for scavenging to be effective.
2) Correct.
3) As the engine rpm increases, the velocity of air increases, and at the venturi, the maximum velocity is at the narrowest section - is correct. This results in a pressure drop (Bernoulli's Principle) - is correct - and resulting vacuum is used to pull a diaphragm in the distributor that will change the advance - is incorrect. I told you that the vacuum take-off point at the carburettor is just above the throttle plate. As soon as the throttle opens, the vacuum drops. Vacuum advance helps when vacuum is maximum. I had derived the graphs for 65A, 65B and 90A. There is a discernible difference in all three and is very much felt in drivability in the city.
4) Correct.

Dear RandomUsername - as your car is very old, it will have only one mark on the crankshaft pulley. This is actual TDC, which please remember, do not be confused. When I released the drawing for marking the pulley at 10 degrees BTDC also, I had simply used S=R*theta*pi/180 to find S. In this case, S=10mm. You need not go to all the trouble, just set the distributor so that the stroboscope flashes when the TDC mark is 10mm towards the right side (exhaust manifold side) of the timing cover mark as viewed from the driver's seat.

This may be a little confusing, as we say in vehicle engineering terms, if in doubt, ask! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th October 2015, 10:58   #1245
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear Behram sir

Is it possible to do it this way too ..

You allign the crank shaft pully to mark on the engine and turn the distributor anti clock wise till you get a spark and tighten at that spot .

Regards .
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