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Old 18th October 2015, 07:09   #1246
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by boeuff View Post
Dear Behram Dhabar, Thanks for the information.
The problem that has been there for a while is if the car has not been started for about 2 weeks, then it takes a few cranks (3-4)to fire up.
It starts with half a crank if used more frequently. I was hoping to clean the fuel pump valves to see if that will fix the issue.
I don't think the diaphragm has a problem as no petrol smell or oil level increase seen.
Before I touch the pump, I wanted to make sure I have a kit.
I am also considering installing an electric fuel pump. Any thoughts
Started the car today after 3 weeks and she fired up in half a crank, no need to Use the choke. The electric pump has earned it's keep.
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Old 19th October 2015, 00:09   #1247
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham
3. Brakes: Check the front wheel bearings for axial clearance. With the steering in straight ahead position, hold the front tire at its top with both hands and rock it, you will feel the clearance on your hands. Remove the grease cup and the split pin holding the front wheel bearings, then use a 24mm size spanner to adjust the pre-load of the taper roller bearings to zero by feel. This will give you the actual clearance of about 20 microns if you measure with a dial gage. Do not over-tighten the nut, this will destroy the taper roller bearings, they must operate at design preload.
Best regards,
Behram Dhabhar
Sir, This activity was completed today. I tightened a bit, checked for play, until the point where there was no play. As I did not have a spanner of correct size, I used the screwdriver and a hammer to gently tap the castle nut slot to tighten it, being careful not to damage any thread. Pics:

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20151018_17_01_46_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20151018_17_03_12_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20151018_17_07_53_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20151018_17_18_36_pro.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-wp_20151018_17_20_37_pro.jpg

A mechanic had tried to convince me that the play was due to a bad spider. Thanks a lot for saving us from con mechanics.
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Old 19th October 2015, 10:50   #1248
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir, I tightened a bit, checked for play until the point where there was no play. A mechanic had tried to convince me that the play was due to a bad spider. Thanks a lot for saving us from con mechanics.
Dear Gowtham - you must tighten the nut until there is no play, but the wheel must also rotate freely. This is possible because this design has two taper roller bearings and no spacer in between the inner races. This design is perfect, provided you keep a tab on the clearance and adjust periodically, which people do not do and then suffer. These bearings will last forever, nothing will ever happen to them if you do just this much. Now that you have done the adjustment properly, what is the next "common sense" thing to do? Protect them, that's what! Now go to a shop any buy the small "Premier Padmini Economy" plastic wheel caps and fit them inside the Ambassador wheel caps. No dust will ever enter the bearing interface area and your bearings will you give full life. Simple, isn't it? As far as the mechanic is concerned, that's a good one. Tell him that the method to check spiders for play is different (I'll give you separately)! By the way, the grinding finish OD dimension of the spider interface on the stub axles is 18.475/18.451mm, a tolerance of 24 microns. I still remember the dimension, damn it! Which mechanic is going to grind spiders? If the suspension is working properly, lubricate the spiders and then leave them alone, setting the spiders properly is not so straightforward.

Dear Dr.Kannan - if you align the pulley and spark the distributor, you will get retarded timing, try it and see, you lose nothing. I have the full database and graphs with me, which I had made in 1977. Please use the stroboscopic timing light only. I have been quietly conducting all sorts of experiments on the cars for years, for free! Only now I am telling you! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 19th October 2015, 11:33   #1249
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Now go to a shop any buy the small "Premier Padmini Economy" plastic wheel caps and fit them inside the Ambassador wheel caps. No dust will ever enter the bearing interface area and your bearings will you give full life.
Sir, Did you mean a cap like this?
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-sdc14783.jpg

Pic Source: http://www.fiatalfadealerparts.co.uk...cap-cover.html
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Old 19th October 2015, 11:38   #1250
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear Ilangop - no, like this! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Attached Thumbnails
The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-fiat16.jpg  

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Old 19th October 2015, 11:44   #1251
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham. Now that you have done the adjustment properly, what is the next "common sense" thing to do? Protect them, that's what! Now go to a shop any buy the small "Premier Padmini Economy" plastic wheel caps and fit them inside the Ambassador wheel caps. No dust will ever enter the bearing interface area and your bearings will you give full life. Simple, isn't it? As far as the mechanic is concerned, that's a good one. Tell him that the method to check spiders for play is different (I'll give you separately)! By the way, the grinding finish OD dimension of the spider interface on the stub axles is 18.475/18.451mm, a tolerance of 24 microns. I still remember the dimension, damn it! Which mechanic is going to grind spiders? If the suspension is working properly, lubricate the spiders and then leave them alone, setting the spiders properly is not so straightforward.
Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir,

Thanks a lot for the guidance and the plastic hubcaps tip! I will try to find a set.

The rubber bushes and leaf spring bushings are due for replacement, as the rubber has hardened and started disintegrating at the edges, but the suspension works, and squeaks have reduced after regular running increased.

The front shock absorbers are soft though.

The original spiders seem to be most sought-after items, so I am wary of letting anyone work on the car in my absence.
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Old 19th October 2015, 12:57   #1252
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Sir, the original spiders seem to be most sought-after items, so I am wary of letting anyone work on the car in my absence.
Dear Gowtham - original spiders are first of all very costly and then they are just not available, even if you want to pay money and buy them, so be very careful. I will shortly give you the complete method of checking the spiders, if they are OK (they normally are, if lubricated properly), it is best to leave them alone. An advance tip here, original spiders do not have pre-threaded grease nipple holes, you need to buy good quality grease nipples with M6*1.0 size metric threads, see that the nipples actually work, then first thread the spider nuts with a tap, insert the grease nipples, grease the joints, then remove the nipples and assemble M6*1.0 size bolts in the spider holes and tighten by using 10mm across flat size spanner. This is the best way to protect the spiders, then they will last forever! As you already have grease nipples in your car, remove them and slowly fit M6*1.0 thread bolts. If they fit properly, leave them in place and keep the grease nipples separately to be used only for greasing.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 19th October 2015, 13:46   #1253
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham - original spiders are first of all very costly and then they are just not available, even if you want to pay money and buy them, so be very careful.
Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, I did a market survey, and I found 3 brands available in shops in Bangalore:
1. Ganes: Looks like forged steel, the machining quality looked good, however I haven't got the opportunity to compare with the original VR one.
2. HK
3. Kafila: has a lot of grime, looks like its made in a shack, smelt of kerosene and was not clean, I suspected its a used one but shopkeeper insisted its new.

Also, are TVS rubber bushes good? Can I buy them?

I will be setting the tappets on one of the weekdays. I hope I don't screw up.
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Old 19th October 2015, 21:36   #1254
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
Sir, Did you mean a cap like this?
Attachment 1429082

Pic Source: http://www.fiatalfadealerparts.co.uk...cap-cover.html
Sir, This is also similar to the half hub cap of Indica and Palio! Palio and Indica were both designed by the same design studio (Italdesign?)
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Old 20th October 2015, 09:17   #1255
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir, This is also similar to the half hub cap of Indica and Palio! Palio and Indica were both designed by the same design studio (Italdesign?)
Yes, but Indica comes with 108 PCD. They both were from Pininfarina design studio. The story I heard was that the studio had this design already ready. While Fiat approached them for Palio and Tata approached them for Indica, somehow deal was signed with Tata and this car become Indica. Else would have become Palio.
Behram Sir, please enlighten with the right facts if I am wrong.
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Old 20th October 2015, 09:34   #1256
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

I'm guessing Palio/Uno Center caps should also fit if you want FIAT written on them

This is how they look :

Name:  IMG_20150819_101327001.jpg
Views: 481
Size:  205.4 KB

Part number if you wish to order them

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-img_20151020_092638001.jpg
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Old 20th October 2015, 10:17   #1257
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
Yes, but Indica comes with 108 PCD. They both were from Pininfarina design studio. The story I heard was that the studio had this design already ready. While Fiat approached them for Palio and Tata approached them for Indica, somehow deal was signed with Tata and this car become Indica. Else would have become Palio. Behram Sir, please enlighten with the right facts if I am wrong.
Dear Ilangop / Gowtham / SunnyBoi - what confusion without need! Please buy what is fitted in BLL4919. What is the intent? Dust should not go in. Will both the wheel caps that you are posting achieve this objective? No! Will the BLL4919 wheel cap achieve this objective? Yes! Simple QED! Come out of Google-Baba and think once in a while yaar! .

By the way, we had made a design of wheel cap for Premier Padmini Economy car, derived from the 1984 model Nissan Sunny car MMY6093 which we had in R&D. This cap required introduction of a flange in the wheel bolt. We had made the prototype parts and tested also, but then due to wheel bolt change, this was dropped. Then we designed what is fitted in BLL4919. Same wheel cap was fitted in the Uno also, but in Uno, the ID of one of the bolt holes was made slightly bigger than the across corners dimension of the wheel bolt head so that the wheel cap could be fitted or removed without jacking the wheel. The PAL logo was also removed as this was a FIAT product made in Kurla.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 20th October 2015, 15:10   #1258
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Is there any relationship between tyre tread width and section width? Obviously under and over inflation will change the section width in real world usage. The tread width on CEAT Safety Drive is around 4". I was trying to find the closest match to this tyre in terms of shape sharp shoulder and sidewall height. Although it has been mentioned several times in this thread that 165/80 R14 is the best match, I could find out why

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-tyre-sizespeedo-error.jpg

I have several questions coming up in my mind now:

1) The tread width of the ply tyre is 4", approximately 101.6mm, for the 165/80 R14, its much wider, and depends on brand. Will this lead to quicker wear on the steering box and gear components?

2) Its recommended to keep the tyre pressure ar 24/22 PSI for ply tyres. What should be the tyre pressure for the radials?

3) If we use tube inside a tubeless radial, won't the inner surface irregularities of the tubeless tyre (mould marks, patterns) wear the tube out? In my Linea I had used a tube on a tyre for 5000+ km and when I got a puncture, it was due to constant rubbing of tube on the tyre inner surface. is there a way to avoid this?

Apart from CEAT Safety Drive, MRF Legend and MRF Twin Tread, was there any other tyre available in 5.20x14?

While searching I came across ply tyres of 5.20x14 size at the following link:
http://www.mrltires.com/products/com...and-car-tyres/

Name:  Malhotra.JPG
Views: 467
Size:  46.8 KB

This looks more like a matador tyre than that for a car

Last edited by autocrat : 20th October 2015 at 15:23.
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Old 20th October 2015, 16:18   #1259
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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1. Is there any relationship between tyre tread width and section width? 2. It is recommended to keep the tyre pressure at 24/22 PSI for ply tyres. What should be the tyre pressure for the radials? 3. If we use tube inside a tubeless radial, won't the inner surface irregularities of the tubeless tyre wear the tube out? 4. Apart from CEAT Safety Drive, MRF Legend and MRF Twin Tread, was there any other tyre available in 5.20x14?
Dear Gowtham - my replies are as follows:

1. Yes. Use the ITTAC (Indian Tire Technical Advisory Committee) manual as reference. Every single query is answered there. It is of 341 pages and has a 17.3MB memory.
2. For your car, go with 25psi at the front and 27psi at the back. Fill the air and see the difference. .
3. No, nothing will happen.
4. Modi Continental and Goodyear used to make but volume was low. Performance was not good.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 22nd October 2015, 08:46   #1260
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

A lovely foggy morning in Bangalore (already), and we reached office in 50 mins cruising at 60~70 kmph, lights piercing the fog. I am still driving with the bald tyre on right rear but I have a better (retreaded) tyre on the stepney. The radiator leak and brake fluid leak need to be addressed, but I could not stop myself from driving the car. What better way to celebrate ayudha pooja than getting it the admiration it deserves? No pics as I forgot my phone at home.
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