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Old 16th February 2016, 15:58   #1411
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a electrical motor to drive the compressor? Or are the load requirements too high?
Let us assume that an Electric AC compressor consumes 1kW of electric power. Running it at 220V would draw 1000/220 = 4.5A of current.
If you had used a 12V - 220V inverter, 1000/12 = 83A of current at 12 V is drawn by inverter. And this 83A of current would drain a fully charged 45 or 55Ah battery with in 15 - 20 mins. Hence the alternator has to be upsized to support this extra 83A of electric load. This additional load on alternator is again powered by the engine only.
If you would include the efficiency of a 12 - 220V inverter, battery, alternator and the belt drive, about 1200W of engine power is consumed to drive all these in place of 1000W what the compressor would need if coupled to engine directly.
So, are you sure about looking for an electric AC compressor?
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Old 16th February 2016, 20:50   #1412
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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So, are you sure about looking for an electric AC compressor?
I am not looking for a electric AC compressor, like you'd find on a home air conditioner unit. It is pretty obvious that you simply can get one to work, in a car

My question was, can a regular car AC compressor, scroll/variable or whatever, be driven by a small external high torque electric motor. Obviously; this motor must be 12volts and draws power from the battery/alternator. It is pretty evident that the compressor adds a significant load on the engine and the design of the 1100 engine does not permit the use of an air conditioner driven by the crankshaft.
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Old 17th February 2016, 14:49   #1413
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I am not looking for a electric AC compressor, like you'd find on a home air conditioner unit. It is pretty obvious that you simply can get one to work, in a car

My question was, can a regular car AC compressor, scroll/variable or whatever, be driven by a small external high torque electric motor. Obviously; this motor must be 12volts and draws power from the battery/alternator. It is pretty evident that the compressor adds a significant load on the engine and the design of the 1100 engine does not permit the use of an air conditioner driven by the crankshaft.
What's the point of doing that, the total parasitic load on the engine remains the same. You use engine mechanical power to drive the compressor or use that to drive a bigger alternator to charge the higher capacity Battery. Both one and the same. By the way if you use a motor to drive the compressor you are actually converting mechanical energy to electrical and then back to mechanical. There are bound to be conversion losses as well.
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Old 17th February 2016, 16:01   #1414
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

May be a12 DC compressors can be used with a high amp alternator. BTW what type of compressor is used in mahindra reva electric car?
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Old 17th February 2016, 21:18   #1415
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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What's the point of doing that, the total parasitic load on the engine remains the same.
Well it is a question I asked, in hope that someone might have attempted it or put in some thought.

I was hoping to achieve this with the stock alternator and battery. Even if I did upgrade the alternator, I am pretty sure it does not put anywhere close to the mechanical load demands of a compressor being driven straight off the engine. With the compressor driven by a high torque electric motor, the compressor speed remains fixed too and this should result in better performance from the aircon. Besides; you no longer have to deal with loss in power and a steaming engine.

It will be interesting to see how an air conditioner works in a Reva, as FM dracul pointed out.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 17th February 2016 at 21:20.
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Old 18th February 2016, 08:53   #1416
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Well it is a question I asked, in hope that someone might have attempted it or put in some thought.
I would be inclined to believe that the E2O AC compressor would need 48V rather than 12V, as the motor and battery pack are rated for 48V.
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Old 18th February 2016, 16:42   #1417
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Well it is a question I asked, in hope that someone might have attempted it or put in some thought.

I was hoping to achieve this with the stock alternator and battery. Even if I did upgrade the alternator.
You can buy off the shelf electric air con running on 12v, see below, 960 http://www.skimo-clim.com/faq.htm
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Old 18th February 2016, 19:32   #1418
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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You can buy off the shelf electric air con running on 12v, see below, 960 http://www.skimo-clim.com/faq.htm
Sir, 80 Amps only for AC unit, so will need a 120 Amp alternator to ensure other car electricals perform normally.

That's thrice the capacity of most alternators on PP, That also means thrice the load on the engine.

But considering the car is never loaded to its max capacity most of the time, how much does additional 80A translate in terms of mechanical load?

In either case we have to load the engine - either alternator or compressor.
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Old 18th February 2016, 19:42   #1419
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Sir, 80 Amps only for AC unit, so will need a 120 Amp alternator to ensure other car electricals perform normally.

That's thrice the capacity of most alternators on PP, That also means thrice the load on the engine.

But considering the car is never loaded to its max capacity most of the time, how much does additional 80A translate in terms of mechanical load?

In either case we have to load the engine - either alternator or compressor.
Absolutely, was just pointing out the system available in the market
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Old 20th February 2016, 13:08   #1420
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear guys - it is nice to see "real" discussion taking place. This is good, (I hope you got what I mean)!!! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st February 2016, 23:23   #1421
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear guys - it is nice to see "real" discussion taking place. This is good, (I hope you got what I mean)!!! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir, you have no idea how many followers you have. There are many who are silently referring to your posts and getting their FIATs back on road.

I have seen people fitting the front grill with the screw of specification mentioned by you elsewhere in the thread. Even for such simple tasks, we follow your words. Such are the lessons taught by you.

March 20th is FCB's 7th Anniversary meet. We plan to take print of the first few pages and other important posts of this thread and distribute among the members.

Thanks again for all the technical knowledge you have shared with us.

P.S We are still waiting for the day when we can meet with our FIATs. You coming to Bangalore will be a Dream for us.

Regards,
Team-FCB

Last edited by Karthik1100 : 21st February 2016 at 23:26.
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Old 22nd February 2016, 14:09   #1422
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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March 20th is FCB's 7th Anniversary meet. We plan to take print of the first few pages and other important posts of this thread and distribute among the members. Thanks again for all the technical knowledge you have shared with us. We are still waiting for the day when we can meet with our FIATs. You coming to Bangalore will be a Dream for us. Regards, Team-FCB
Dear Karthik - thank you for your gracious comments! What more can I say, except "Thank You"! I am very happy to know that many cars are becoming good due to the content of my posts. These posts are due to my 3 teachers, you know the names: Mr. Framroze Nariman, Mr. Anil Patel and Mr. Shashi Mohile. They are God for me. I am what I am, due to their forever-shining blessings.

I would love to drive my left hand drive fiat from Pune (where it is parked) to Bangalore, it's just 800 kms across, but I am unable to do so due to "loads of work where I work" believe me (you know where I work)! . Also, the day after 20 March is 21 March, it is "Jamshedi Navroze" for us quintessential "Parsi Bawajis". It is the Spring Equinox, we Zoroastrians call it the "Festival of Spring". Every year on 21 March, where we have a lovely evening in the gymkhana grounds of our Dadar Parsi Colony in Mumbai, where around 3000 Parsis come together and enjoy. I would not like to miss Jamshedi Navroze. By the way, on 14 March 2010, in one of the weekends preceeding 21 March that year, we had a car competition known as "Bawi's Envy, Bawa's Pride". My left hand drive had won the first prize in its category. Here's one 6 years old photograph, so this is before the second restoration, and also the last year's VCCCI rally photograph after the second restoration. Enjoy!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 22nd February 2016, 21:58   #1423
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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[b][u] By the way, on 14 March 2010, in one of the weekends preceeding 21 March that year, we had a car competition known as "Bawi's Envy, Bawa's Pride". My left hand drive had won the first prize in its category. Here's one 6 years old photograph, so this is before the second restoration, and also the last year's VCCCI rally photograph after the second restoration. Enjoy!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Behrambhai Bawaji,
3238 looks fantastic in both the old & new avatars. I envy your cars being in PERFECT mechanical condition. Can you post some more latest pictures with those delicious auxiliary lamps?
BTW, in the rally spec picture, I see a lot of stickers for aftermarket performance enhancing products which I know you don't promote. Are was the car kitted with them?

Last edited by KkVaidya : 22nd February 2016 at 22:02.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 10:05   #1424
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
Behrambhai Bawaji, 3238 looks fantastic in both the old & new avatars. I envy your cars being in PERFECT mechanical condition. Can you post some more latest pictures with those delicious auxiliary lamps? In the rally spec picture, I see a lot of stickers for aftermarket performance enhancing products which I know you don't promote. Was the car kitted with them?
Dear Vaidyaji - thanks! . As you request, I am posting one more picture with the pair of white rectangular Hella 450s fitted. I have a pair of yellow rectangular Hella 550s also. The big round Hella Rallye 2000s are kept safely locked in my cupboard at home (I had purchased them from Opera House in 1981). You can observe that I have made a complete light mounting bracket, integrated and welded into the body-shell, behind the grille, with supports from the struts. I wanted to do this for a very long time, so I did it during the first restoration with the roll cage. I am posting a picture, so that people can use the idea if required, instead of putting those silly contraptions on their cars! Sorry for the grainy quality of the picture. I have been told that I have spoilt the originality, so be it! I did exactly what was in my mind for many years. The car is mine and shall be kept forever, so it makes no difference to me.

The stickers were put, just to provide a sporty theme to the car as I had fitted the roll cage inside it. The car is actually is a 1996 model S1, now running on the original S1 specification Mikuni with its manifold, very rare to get, only around 200 cars were released. Now, the intent is to preserve forever, so I don't push the engine anymore.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 23rd February 2016, 12:58   #1425
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Sir, why there is a bulge in the hood of your car?. Is it just for visual enhancement or something bigger is there underneath.
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