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Old 24th March 2016, 13:55   #1456
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Dear Dracul - my reply is as follows:
1. Yes, that is a lot of work which brings out the importance of using product clarity, simple logic and a little bit of common sense. We (my colleague and I) did nothing else except this analysis for 4 days. As expected, very few people understood what we were doing, from others, we got huge brickbats, because we were always in the workshop, most of the time below the vehicles, which is not considered nice! . At the end of 4 days, we found the solution. Then everybody came, because they wanted to take the credit! . See the spread, 2 kms on one clutch to 86000 kms on one clutch!
2. If you are meaning the M8*1.25*30 mm long bolt securing the Premier Padmini bell housing to the cylinder block, most of the mechanics don't fit this one bolt on the bottom LH side because it is very difficult to access. Cars have run for years like this without the customer even knowing, but technically this is incorrect.
3. Generally speaking, yes. If you have a specific case, please mention.

I cannot disclose the name of the vehicle on which this clutch exercise was conducted. I was the chief engineer for the project. The vehicle sold in huge quantity, decimated the competition completely and created a huge quantity of new user segment, which is doing very well now. The first prototype was built in record time. For me, there was huge learning from a classic case of "CUSTOMER-CENTRICITY IN ACTION". It also proved that millions of rupees are not required to achieve product success in the marketplace out there!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Sir. I'm curious. As a lot of medical research uses simulations for drug research /epidemiology.

Can the above process be done by computer simulations now? If you had access to computer based simulation, would that have drastically reduced the 4 days you spent trouble shooting?

Or is the quality control of vendor parts in India is so bad that they can't be relied upon to supply properly engineered parts even for prototypes?
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Old 24th March 2016, 15:05   #1457
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Sir. I'm curious. Can the above process be done by computer simulations now? If you had access to computer based simulation, would that have drastically reduced the 4 days you spent trouble shooting? Or is the quality control of vendor parts in India is so bad that they can't be relied upon to supply properly engineered parts even for prototypes?
Dear Drsingh - hello to you and thank you for asking this question. First ask yourself this question: "who thinks"? The computer does not think, it is programmed to do only what is fed inside it! By asking this question, you have hit the nail on the head, dead center Sir, this is the problem. Everybody wants to see fancy graphs, charts and presentations. My question is simple, the clutch failed two times in the same vehicle, both times in 2 kms, and then it lasted for 86000 kms on the same vehicle. Can a computer give this answer why this happened? You decide, I'll keep quiet! On your vendor parts question, remember, the prototype is first built in the head of the vehicle integration engineer, then it is translated to the physical vehicle. Again ask yourself this question: "who thinks"? I hope you got the answer!

I have the best job in the world, vehicle integration and vehicle evaluation. I feel nice when I see my babies standing next to me at traffic signals or zipping by on the roads. The computer, the graphs, the charts and the presentations can never have these feelings!

Remember, only the human mind can think! You need to have a very peculiar aptitude to get into the root cause analysis and solve the problem. This capability is in critically short supply these days! Therefore, it becomes all the more fashionable to spend millions, because when something goes wrong, you are allowed to point fingers and say, "I didn't do it, that guy did, I just regularized" (you pay for the privilege of finger pointing)! Hahaha, oh come on now! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 24th March 2016 at 15:11.
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Old 15th April 2016, 12:40   #1458
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Hello Behram sir,

Just wanted to know what the dots that appear at the bottom on temp gauge and fuel guage mean. Also, for my S1, I changed the meter from the older to this new type meter. Will the temperature indicated still be correct?
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Old 15th April 2016, 14:14   #1459
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Hello Behram sir, just wanted to know what the dots that appear at the bottom on temp gauge and fuel guage mean. Also, for my S1, I changed the meter from the older to this new type meter. Will the temperature indicated still be correct?
Dear Karthik - those are the calibrators used during manufacturing. As far as I can remember, the temperature sensors were different, see the reading with the old one, if it indicates almost same, just live with it. After all it is an indicator to you, what you understand out of it is more important.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 19th April 2016, 11:18   #1460
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Karthik - those are the calibrators used during manufacturing. As far as I can remember, the temperature sensors were different, see the reading with the old one, if it indicates almost same, just live with it. After all it is an indicator to you, what you understand out of it is more important.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir,

In Dudewithafiat's car, the temperature T is not working and hence the fan is made direct. This is causing a constant load on the electrical system, and weak alternator (12.5V at idling) is not charging the battery.

Recently I came across this product:

http://shop.redlineplus.in/motorcycl...ller-kit-.html

We can regulate the fan on-off at preset temperature. We have to insert the probe between radiator fins. Is this a good idea if stock way of regulating is not working? How is the thermostat controlling fan on-off in S1 car?

Kindly help us,

GOutham
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Old 19th April 2016, 11:43   #1461
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Dear Sir: 1. In Dudewithafiat's car, the temperature T is not working and hence the fan is made direct. This is causing a constant load on the electrical system, and weak alternator (12.5V at idling) is not charging the battery. 2. Recently I came across this product where we can regulate the fan on-off at preset temperature. We have to insert the probe between radiator fins. Is this a good idea if stock way of regulating is not working? 3. How is the thermostat controlling fan on-off in S1 car? Kindly help us, Goutham
Dear Gowtham - my reply is as follows:
1. If the radiator fan control switch sensor is not working, you need to change it. It is exactly same as used in the Maruti 800, 1986 model onwards. It used to cost 80 rupees in those days, I don't know its current cost. As a measure of additional caution and peace of mind, take two wires from the sensor, route them to the dashboard and put an on-off switch there. During ghat sections, you can keep the fan direct and then switch it back to sensor control. I have done it in all my Maruti 800 cars. Simple!
2. Don't use such nonsense. I had tried it when I had worked on the S1. It never worked properly. These are all gimmicky gadgets.
3. It is not thermostat controlling fan, it is thermo-fan. The logic is single speed operation, on at 91 degrees C and off at 87 degrees C. I had conducted numerous cooling tests with multiple sensors placed at different locations on the test car before fixing it at the engine outlet side, because the operating input temperature matched the 91 degrees C that I wanted at this location, giving me the delta-T that I wanted. Remember, that this location is below the degassing tank bottom in vertical axis so as long as there is coolant in the degassing tank, the sensor will work. Most important, remember that the sensor will only work if coolant physically touches it. Therefore, it will not work if coolant level is low and there is air in this location, you need to physically check this. Also, this arrangement helped me to meet the 1996 emission norms, which was the main reason why the S1 with electric fan was introduced.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 19th April 2016, 12:50   #1462
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gowtham - my reply is as follows:
Most important, remember that the sensor will only work if coolant physically touches it. Therefore, it will not work if coolant level is low and there is air in this location, you need to physically check this. Also, this arrangement helped me to meet the 1996 emission norms, which was the main reason why the S1 with electric fan was introduced.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, so first thing we will check and top up the coolant level

We will take pics of current setup and share so we will know if any changes have been done to the car.

Thanks!
Goutham
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Old 25th April 2016, 12:05   #1463
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Dear Friends, We were blessed to meet Behram Sir at Bangalore on Friday and Saturday. Saturday morning Sreeraj (Dudewithafiat), myself and Arun 1100 met Behram Sir. He took a small drive in our cars and we were presented with what needs to be done on our cars. List for me:

Issue: Gear not slotting into first easily
Remedy:
a) Check the gear lever play and adjust by tightening the 13mm nut near the steering box
b) Too much clutch free play: Adjust free play using 13mm and 14mm spanners, but loosening the lock nut, adjusting the play and tightening the lock nut

Issue: Too much steering free play
Remedy: Use 13 mm spanner and screwdriver under the steering box to set free play.

Behram Sir also noticed that the brake light does not work on one side.

The conversation flowed and we were taken through a journey spanning a few decades in few minutes time

Something that I loved but may not be able to put it back exactly as Behram Sir says, when he quoted Prof. Srinivasan:

"People do not understand the phirst vertical line of the capital letter E in the word Engineering. Please do not waste your time on them"

Behram Sir, apologies if I missed any detail - most amazing time we had with you! Thanks a lot and look forward to the Dharwad trip thats long due

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-p_20160423_083231_1_bf_p.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-p_20160423_084418_1_bf_p.jpg

The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread-p_20160423_081528_1_bf_p.jpg

Hope the good times roll!

Last edited by autocrat : 25th April 2016 at 12:09. Reason: Typo
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Old 2nd May 2016, 07:39   #1464
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Gentlemen,

Where can I procure the starter motor for my 1972 1100D? This is a Padmini shape Fiat. My car is ready except that she does not crank at times and the garage said that the starter motor is the culprit and there is little in terms of repair that they can carry out. Unfortunately; the car isn't with me. It is located in Calicut. For those familiar with Geeta Automobile's in Calicut, they have said that I can get a used one in Coimbatore. Any pointers will be helpful.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 08:46   #1465
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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Gentlemen,

Where can I procure the starter motor for my 1972 1100D? This is a Padmini shape Fiat. My car is ready except that she does not crank at times and the garage said that the starter motor is the culprit and there is little in terms of repair that they can carry out. Unfortunately; the car isn't with me. It is located in Calicut. For those familiar with Geeta Automobile's in Calicut, they have said that I can get a used one in Coimbatore. Any pointers will be helpful.
If the issue is "sometimes" check and replace solenoid switch.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 11:15   #1466
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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If the issue is "sometimes" check and replace solenoid switch.
Okay. I believe I was not very clear with the description of my problem. I spoke to the garage again with the solution you said. Turns out it isn't the solenoid switch but something called the Bendix. This has developed a fault. There is damage to the teeth on the gear that engages to the fly wheel. As a result, it takes a couple of attempts to crank the car. When the gear is perfectly aligned, it cranks in one ago. When it isn't, it takes a couple of attempts.

I am not very well versed on subject of mechanical bits inside a starter motor. Is this part sold separately or do you need a new starter motor itself which I believe is next to impossible to source?
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Old 3rd May 2016, 11:45   #1467
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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1. too much steering free play, remedy, use 13 mm spanner and screwdriver under the steering box to set free play. 2. something that I loved but may not be able to put it back exactly as Behram Sir says, when he quoted Prof. Srinivasan: "People do not understand the phirst vertical line of the capital letter E in the word Engineering. Please do not waste your time on them"! 3. Look forward to the Dharwad trip thats long due. Hope the good times roll!
Dear Gowtham, Sreeraj and Arun - thanks!!! I also had a wonderful and very relaxing time with you guys and your cars, it was really nice to have idli chutney and filter "kaapi" on the sidewalk for a change! My reply is as follows:

1. Use 19 mm size spanner, not 13 mm, to loosen the locknut and tighten it, adjust by using the screwdriver. Remember to "feel" the steering play with your hands as I told you, otherwise you will not be able to set it properly. Set this play, ensure that wheel bearing setting is done, ensure correct tire pressure and then see your steering getting converted to almost power steering in performance!
2. Professor Srinivasan's exact quote was (you must read in typical tamilian drawl to get the real effect, pronounce the words as they are written, pause at all the commas, pause a little more at double commas): "you see Mr.Dhabhar,, there are many people,, who do naat understand the imfartance of the firrsstt vertical linnne,, of the capital letter E, of the word Engineering. Whyyy, are you wasting your time with them"? Priceless, absolutely priceless! I learnt so much from him, almost all the derivatives / formulae which I share were derived by him in class. He subsequently joined PAL as DGM(R&D). He was my boss's boss's boss's boss! I was just a humble junior engineer then, but he used to call me and give me work, which would get the others all "worked-up", hahaha! .
3. Yes, let the temperature cool down a little, in the monsoon perhaps, you know which car I can use without bothering about the rains. I am tuning it now! .

I have received a PM query on the "governor plate" which was fitted to Premier Padmini petrol engines. I'll reply shortly.

Dear Sandeepmohan - check the battery for its output. If OK, then operate the starter motor directly, bypassing the solenoid switch. If it works properly, change the solenoid switch, new one is still available at Lucas TVS outlets as it is still used in commercial vehicles. Buy 12v as both 12v and 24v is available. If not, then you will have to overhaul or replace the starter motor.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 3rd May 2016 at 11:52.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 13:34   #1468
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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If not, then you will have to overhaul or replace the starter motor.
Thank you for your reply. As I had mentioned earlier, there appears to be a problem with the Bendix. According to the garage, the solenoid is okay.

Any guidance on procuring or over hauling the starter motor?
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Old 3rd May 2016, 13:56   #1469
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

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There appears to be a problem with the Bendix. According to the garage, the solenoid is okay. Any guidance on procuring or over hauling the starter motor?
Dear Sandeepmohan - original Lucas TVS bendix should still be available, at least in Mumbai it was available about a year back. Changing the bendix is a straightforward affair, a good electrician should take around an hour to finish the job. I presume that the flywheel ring gear is OK. A shop in Opera House had a brand new starter motor also, but he was asking for a ridiculous price. Can you post a small video? It will help me to analyse. Also please PM me your contact details.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 3rd June 2016, 07:59   #1470
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Default Re: The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

Hello All,

A friend is looking for rear shock absorbers for his 118 NE petrol. Its not available anywhere in Bangalore. Any pointers? Slightly urgent!

Also, the S1 type (similar to header) exhaust is available at Best Automobiles. Grab it before stock gets over. I remember lot of discussions on how difficult it is to get this even in scrap market. Though after market, it should have reasonable life. I replaced it for my S1. The one on the car was very weak and needed a weld every 6-7 weeks.
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