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Old 25th September 2008, 00:09   #1
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How about this guys. We used to have 4 jeeps(although my folks dont even remember if it was the flatfenders or the M38/A1), a Bellair, and an indian cheif, besides a 100 yrs old tractor that runs by a steam engine. Although all these have been been sold off to junk dealers, or should i say scrapped off(yeh, what do you except, my grandmom cut up a persian carpet so she could use them as blankets for our horses and bulls those times, and there were photographs and letters from the previous viceroys of india,all been burnt up or thrown away coz they were of no value to them) , the only thing left off are the steam tractor and the pickup. The tractor was gifted by the viceroy so it stayed, and the pickup ,as i remember was still being used till the early 90's, although it had a diesel heart by then(inter).


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Old 25th September 2008, 10:15   #2
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Do please post pictures of the tractor. When was the last time she was fired up? That's quite a treasure. Your pickup would make a phenomenal hot rod with a strong modern v8 and drivetrain
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:10   #3
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Now that's a Chip Foose style project. Go for it, it will be a stunner when completed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th September 2008, 12:14   #4
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Chip Foose Project Indeed!! This is what it should look like!!
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Old 25th September 2008, 14:08   #5
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Brutus thanks for shareing. there were some nice cars in your family. In earlier days the value of these cars were not known and many ended up with the scrapper.
The chevy is beautiful and you could restore it to new. i would love to see pictures of the Tractor. It would be a jewel in itself.

@ DKG, Behram uncle & Cyrus please leave this restorable car alone, no Foose and Hotrod ideas atall.

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Old 25th September 2008, 14:34   #6
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Wow that truck is awesome, please tell me you are going to restore it. I never knew pickups existed in India, especially these !!!!
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Old 25th September 2008, 15:51   #7
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Wow. So Brutus has my dream car. You made my day with this pic.
Buddy please restore this truck to its original glory. I didnt even know that there was a Chevy pick up in Chandigarh.
It is not going to be easy to source parts and engine (almost impossible) for this truck. Also the fact that its badly rusted.
Still.......Brutus, if you need any help regarding the restoration i will be glad to help you with whatever little i may be able to contribute towards its restoration.

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Old 25th September 2008, 16:07   #8
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Hi Guys,
Although i am thoroughly a Jeep person, i still have to do something about this one, except ofcourse sell it. I am trying to fetch a straight-6 4liter chevy from about the same time(a restorer uncle has one but it aint complete ,hes still collecting the parts), so i can bring this beauty to its former glory. If it works out, then well and good, otherwise i am just going to ponk in a massive bombed V8 and lower it a bit with some fat rubber at the rear.Or i am going to lift it, put some nice dana60's under the front, 38 to 44 inch rubber(boggers probably), and a cummins motor to make a really nice show offroader(but that is if my jonga project does not work out). All i care about right now is to do anything but try to preserve it so that even if i dont restore it, my desendents dont have a piece of junk to work on.And if i do ponk in a V8, i'll make sure i dont fiddle with the foundations, so its restorable latter.

These pictures had been taken a few years ago when i went to my village, and that time the tractor was hidden from sight under a massive raw cotton pileup, so i could not take any pictures, but i'll surly take them the next time i go there.

As for when the tractor last started, well, we have been farming till the early 80's, and then moved to the chandigarh when when the terrorism in punjab was at its peak, and besides, our folks had to put us into schools. Thats when we started giving out our agricultural land on lease to farmers willing to sow on our land, which at the time proved to be more profitable then farming yourself, coz you dont count in yeild losses.

Anyways, till that time we had been buying new tractors every 7-10 years, so as far as my folks remember, we had fugersons in the 50's then come russain belarus's in the 60's and then hindustans in the 70's and finally hmt's ,kirloskars and fords in the 80's. And they say they had never seen the tractor running, so in any case it has not been started after the 50's,although there are people around the muktsar area, who used to tell me that since we were one of the few families that ever bought tractors in the area till the 50's , there still weren't anybody who had a tractor besides us in the steam engine era, so people from far and wide would come to see the tractor, and one of them tells me, that his grandfather told him he had gone with a worker of yours to lahore to pick some parts for the tractor and could not find them, and hence the tractor never go back to runnig again.

At the time when they had been in lahore, there was a lot of talkabout Bhagat singh's hanging, so undoubtly its around 1920-21, that the tractor has been standing. One person told me my grandfather(who died when my father war 12), had once attempted to get it working, but when he realised he was messing with something he did not understand, he put it all back together(he had hardly taken it apart), so the future generations can work it out. That, he says was right after independence.

Another story i would like to tell you, which is quite funny. In the early 70's, my fathers distinct cousin tried working on a Ford GPA 'seep' that had belonged to his grandfather,who had bought it right after the war(people also tell me seemed to be a lot of seeps in my area,which is right in the middle of the Haryana,rajastan,punjab and pakistan border,each being no more than 50kms from my village. There were quite a few of them left till the late 70's, but they all seemed to have vanished now. The last examples that i heard of belonged to one person is Chautala,Harayana, and another one belonged to a opium smuggler in Bathinda,Punjab, and he would use the hull for hiding his stock. Both of them had been scrapped in the late 80's). It is said that the seep uses some sort of a plate under it(dont think it would be underneath the hull though,coz if it ever leaks in water it would turn it into a water bucket) to go amphibious.This jeep or should i say seep, had never been used on water, and no one had an idea that i was meant to, and i dont blame them either, coz people there would'nt even understand why it was shaped that way until they saw the propellor and guessed what it was there for.

What happened here was he that the jeep had been stored for quite many years, and when my uncle had got it running, he showed it to my father who had never seen a amphibious vehicle doing the job it does its best, well almost, coz the seep was like a jack of all trades, good at none. My father laughed at the idea of it still being able to swim after all these years, and my uncle, quite revoked when he heard that, took it as a challenge, immediately taking it to the nearby canal(the Rajastan feeder passes by my village), driving it in and turning on the propellors. They say it sank like a stone(glug....glug...), taking my uncle down with it(probably due to some phenomena that we hear off that sucks in the passengers swimming close to a sinking ship).

The fact that the canal had quite a high water current did'nt help either. Timely help by my father,his cousins and nearby villagers saved my uncles life, but he went into comma for 5 days. The reason as he founf out later, was that missing plate that i had been talking about, and also he had no idea that contraptions like these rely heavily on bildge pump, about which he had no idea if they were even existing on his vehicle. On recovering, he searched high and low, but he just could'nt find it, as it had been swept away by the current. That canal has been notorious for gulping in quite a lot, coz there are major highways alongside its banks, and every now and then something would end up dropping into it. About 6-7 years ago the canal was shut down probably for the first time since it had been built by the Maharaja of Bikaner when he leased water from punjab.

Thats when my uncle again went looking for his seep. People found jewellery, cars, a sack containing 5 AK47's, some ammo and a few grenades(thrown in my fleeing terrorist during the 80's), and an Army shaktimann truck carring a load of ammo, besides the other thing that were found and they had been all over the news. All this, but he never found his seep, and there was'nt a point doing that either, cos there would'nt be anything worthwhile left in it either(junk), but i guess somethings are prized just for their sentimental values. This same story happened with the guy who was the opium smuggler. He had a missing plate and he drove it into the village pond, and sinking it, but it was recovered soon enough coz the pond was hardly a few meters deep and he pulled it out with the help of a tractor.


All this about the seep, theer was only 1 other small amphibion(jeep size) during the war,and that was the German Schwimmenwagen Type 166(the russian gaz was made much after the war). Designed by ferdinand porsche, and the first units being built just by porsche, then later manufactured jointly by volkswagon, and it indeed shared quite a lot with the volkswagon drivetrain components,as it was a direct decendent of the Kublewagon(but unlike the kubelwagon, it had 4wheeldrive).

Production never exceeded more than about 30000 examples,jointly by both the companies, as a result of heavy allied bombarding of its production facilities. Also the fact that they both were not practical amphibious patrol vehicles as a single well placed shot by a sniper was enough to cause problems both for the seep and the Schwimmenwagen, so theywere used only as official cars, the former duties being preformed much better by the bigger amphibions. Nevertheless, it had abundant technological leaps(what else would you expect from germans). I

t had independent suspension all around,by way of torsion bars and swinging mounts(like used on the latest autorickshaws), which jeeps dont have even till now, and it preformed way better than the seep, being almost as capable as the jeep, if not better. Only about a 100 example are left now, with the porsche examples being extremely rare. Someone told me a few years ago that an old sikh gentleman,retired from the army and settled down in Karnal, Haryana, has the only other existing example in Asia(the first one is in China). He also happens to have a Haflinger, an Indian scout and a chief, besides a Rolls Royce merlin66(V12,27 liter, supercharged, 2600Hp@2500rpm)motor from a supermarine spitfire(really want to make a buggy around that motor,whos with me???). Even though i heard hes not restored anything, nor desires to, but neither is he willing to sell them. I tried a lot but i still have not been able to locate him until now.


Also something that might be out of topic here,i heard this wonderfull story from my restorer uncle. The Maharaja of Faridkot,Punjab happened to order 500 surplus MB/GPW's from America right after the war, and just when the first lot came to the docks in India, the maharaja passed away, leaving his entire property to a trust ,as he had no decendant,and by way of beneficiaries for life were his only close relatives, his 2 sisters, one of whom did not marry and the other married and now staying in Calcutta.

Since only the payments for a few jeeps were done(obviously to mahindra&mahindra, who were just importers and stockers of jeeps at that time), and not the other odd 100 of them, they were latter sold off to the public(i seriously beleive that all the people who have had brand new jeeps in India, along with the service manuals and the works, have to be these ones and not the army surplus, cox they never would care to give the manuals along, and also, whoever had these brand new jeeps, they never seemed to have disposal jeeps writtern on their R/C's like other army auctioned MB/GPW's). Only 6 jeeps were recieved by trust, and 4 of them are still packed in the crates as they came, sandwiched between 2 cardboards(with the windshield folded down, and this was how new unused jeep were transported in the war), and the other 2 went to Mashobra,near Shimla,where he had a summer palace, along with a few other vehicles ,including 2 Rolls-Royce scout cars.

There they dug up an area to make for a makeshift underground parking lot, and covered it with tin roof sheets to guard it against the elements , but that was until the palace at mashobra caught fire a few years ago and all the vehicles were then shifted either back to Faridkot or to Calcuttle where the kanwar(his sister's son) lives. The palace garage in faridkot, which is also known to have a gold plated RollsRoyce standing, is covered up from all sides with bricks and cement, leaving only a few small windows for visiters to peep inside. The maharaja's trust is known to have 2 brandnew new vintage planes(one is still ckd packaged, but the other seems to be damaged by transportation) ,which i saw in a video that someone smuggled and put on the net a few years ago(it is very difficult to gain access to the palace, with the only visiters being the occaissional school children by the organised school trips, but they too have access to only a few areas). And also there quite a lot of cars and motorcycles, with many of the motorcycles still been unassembled and packed in a box as they came.

There have been reports that muny of them have been smuggled outside India by foreigners, especially the unassebled motorcycles, after greasing the b@tts of the trust authorities, and much the same way as the maharaja of nabhas cars were smuggled out(quite a lot of them, including the famous swan car, and also the 2 RollsRoyces he used as the cities garbage truck, after being thrown out from a RollsRoyce showroom in Delhi,mistaken for a common man who obviously cannot afford a Rolls atleast. Howcome they couldn't they recognize a maharaja???, well thats coz he dressed too soberly for a Maharaja. Later the executives of RollsRoyce personnally came to appologise and request him to stop useing their cars as a gargabe can as it alters its image .

Wonder if someone can do it now.....lol. The person who smuggled the cars outside India,brought the entire collection for Rs28lakhs from the Rajmata, atleast 10 very famous cars). Although it cannot be confirmed if they did the same to the Faridkot collection,but its quite likely that they have been, its india afterall. Anyways, i think its the best thing that could have happened, coz they could not be relaised to anybody inside India, as it is basically a disputed trust property, and there are a lot of poking noses around, so sooner or later, somebody would have found out, putting both the trust keepers and the buyer in trouble. You know it amounts to theft. And if they had not been released, they would have meet with the same sorry fate as other disputed jewels have,rotting away, like every drop of its life being slowly extracted from it, and if that was not enough, it was humiliated by being used as a pigeon nesting hole.
And since i have been talking mainly about amphibions here, i got this picture for you.

It is a Russian BTR-70 amphibious . It was lying in a Junkyard in Phathankot, where i had gone to search for a few Jonga parts, standing alongside a T55 Main battle tank. The tank was in a very sorry state, as the military authorities dont allow you to buy them along wit the weapon systems, so they have to dismantle all important parts like the weapons system, electronics,sights,rader,etc and give those back to the army.

The guns are De-Rifled and cut into small equal pieces and so is the turrent, leaving only the hull intact. The BTR too was dismantled condition, but due to the fact that it was only a command control room, all it had was radars and electronis, and they had been removed, as was a small portion of the top that was somehow attached to the radar system(it would have been covered by a soft top though). Everything else was intact, along with atleast a few 100 samples of the same tires as used on it, and some of them even had about 50%thread left and were soft enough to be used again. Also intact were all the bilge pumps.

The BTR was powered by two 4liter petrol motors and had a propellor hidden under a revolve to open lid at the rear,which along with the front bumper which comes in front of the windshield to shield againt water splashes, are operated from within the vehicle.The suspension is independent and the BTR is steered by the front two axles, all the wheels have CTIS(centerally inflated) with runflat ablity(a solid rubber compound containing no air packets covered the rims and works as a reserved tires in case the main is split apart....cannot come off as its beadlocked).

The main windshields have bulletproof lids on them which can be shut with a lever inside the cabin, and then the driver uses the periscopes(visible in the picture) to drive the vehicle(i should have said the drivers,coz it had two steering wheels, giving it the option of being both a left and right hand drive vehicle). All this said and done, he kabardi walla was in a dire need of money so he quoted Rs 5lakhs(he said thats how much he bought it for and is charging no profit, and it seem true also as it weighs about 10ton without the weapon systems, and given the rates of junk metal these days), which seemed good enough for such a large and heavy vehicle.

Even though it would have made an excellent
offorad,hunting,boating vehicle, i did'nt buy it coz the only and major problem was that i was'nt sure it could not be registered(8x8, armoured, and the ability to go over vehicles not giving any right of way). I do now have a feeling that it could have been registered as a commercial 8 wheeler truck(like the Volvo tippers or the Tatra's which have single wheels on 4 set of axles)thought probably they would not allow a armoured vehicle to be registered, but i think its too late as it would have been already massacred into tiny bits and peices. Anyways, i did manage to get a few parts from it. One being the ultra cool headlights that i can use a extra fog lights, and you can see it right where my hand is placed(the same set is used on all russain tanks, even the T-90 and also in the FAILED indegenous Arjun), 4 sets of a very cool gun mounts which i can use for hunting( It had 3 small oval shaped lids on each side, behind which were these mounts.

The personnel could place any rifle on the gun mount, slide the cock on the mount to lock the rifle into place, open the lid from the inside and shoot at anything that comes by). i also bought the Infra-red sighting system which i sent for repairs and hope it does repair, and so have i bought the heat light for the infra-red system. And also the Commanders hatch light, which is brand new(eve the reflectors are brand new, and its a sealed beam). A personnel told me these hatch lights are very powerful spotlights with the renge being in excess a kilometer, and do doubt they are coz the bulb rating is 28volts-600watts(normal halogen headlighs are just 60watts, this being 10 times more powerful) These command vehicles are used by the artillary regiment, where it can move ahead of the artillary guns and pin point the bombarding area with the help of all the radars and stuff it has in it and give the orders and signal to the guns and cannons placed else where.
Regards,
Bikram

Last edited by Mpower : 25th September 2008 at 19:17. Reason: Make it more readable
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Old 25th September 2008, 16:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
It is not going to be easy to source parts and engine (almost impossible) for this truck. Also the fact that its badly rusted.
Thanx. but the parts aint very expensive and are available in the states from where i can order them. The pictures look worse than the actual vehicle. It standing in my village in Punjab and since that place is basically a irrigated desert, the vehilce is covered by sand that looks like rust. the only parts in a bad shape are the side steps.
Also its a RHD
You might love this vehicle and might want to make an hotrodder of it, but when i think of that ,i remember the times when my dad bought a V8 dodge charger home(was a 60's model ,but we had it just for 3 months until it was damaged beyond being salvagable). It was damaged when our driver smashed it with a truck near patiala in 1984, killing himself(there was no one else with him and he was bringing the car to chandigarh from my village). When you come to know that you had the ultimate hotrod, you just dont want to make a hotrodder of anything else.
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Old 25th September 2008, 16:36   #10
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I need to gulp down some whisky and read the above again. Man what you have just outlined above is truly amazing bit of information.
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Old 25th September 2008, 16:41   #11
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Sorry about the picture guys, was'nt supposed to send you the Jonga picture(which i think belongs to someone on this very site), but the BRT60 picture. So here it is.
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Old 25th September 2008, 17:42   #12
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Wow,that was some read Brutus

thanks for sharing with us.What i liked most was the SEEP part,i never knew that something like this existed.

And yes Rajasthan Feeder Canal is notorious due to huge depth of water and i have personally seen all sort of stuff even dead bodies in it.

Spent sometime in Chautala in my childhood.And always loved the motor boat ride in canal.

Keep them coming.

Thanks bro
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Old 25th September 2008, 18:24   #13
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Great post Brutus.

One request though. Please indent your post i.e.kindly make use of paragraphs in your post. In long interesting posts like yours, it gets difficult to read on the screen if not indented.

Im sure people with bad eyes like myself would find it difficult to read the post and make connection with the next line

Thanks, otherwise a superb post.

One question though. Was your pick up a six or a V-8? If you can lay your hands on a V-8, nothing like it. Power steering, four speed tranny and a good free flow blurping away. It will be the envy of every one who will see it.
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Old 25th September 2008, 19:00   #14
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Very long story,Thanks Brutus for sharing......I have to read again to see if I miss any bit. Had to use mouse courser highlighted on text of those parts which I have read.....lol

But very nice to know about SEEP!!! and BRT60

cheers
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Old 25th September 2008, 22:01   #15
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Thanx guys,thanx for everything
Quote:
Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post

Spent sometime in Chautala in my childhood.And always loved the motor boat ride in canal.
Hi Sunny, theres a person there called Hitler Chautala, and although he and om parkash chautala(ex-cm haryana) are first cousins, they have a very long standing tiff, each killing someone or the other of the other persons group. I have 1 Pakistani bully and 2 pitbulls that somebody got for me from them. Hitler chautala too ownes a Seep, although i have no idea if he sold it or scraped it, but i am damn sure he does not have it.

V16, the 52 pickups(52 was the last year of this particular model) never came with a V8, only straight 6's, and i will install a V8 only if i dont get the correct parts to restore a straight 6. V8's are available in plenty and most can be bought from mayapuri(delhi) where they take them out from embassy auctioned vehicles, but looking for specifically a 50-60 chevy big block V8 will be more difficult, but as a last resort,i am ready to buy one from the US and get it couriered here(dont think the customs wouldnt allow old auto parts either). Also i ain't much of a fan of V engines, coz straight 6's have always been more efficient, producing more power per cubic centimeter and also the harmonic balancing of a straight 6 is a lot better, resulting in a butter smooth motor, and also being the least noisy of all types of motors(although some say straight8's were more smooth, but i would not comment on that as i have never driven a straight8). The V8 has only one big advantage from a straight8, and that is,it can pack in big capacities in small packings, and leaving that alone, a pushrod V8 creates the most wonderful music.
As for indenting the post, i will try to do that next time. I understand it might get quite difficult for you guys to keep track of where you were, but i just get too deep into typing(which for me is a headache as i have to look for every letter), but i just love to write maybe, so i just keep typing and loose track of how much i have typed, until i finish it and realize that i wrote so much that it would make a mini novel.
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