Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India > Post-War


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th August 2008, 19:53   #61
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
if the car was a convertible and red then theres only one roadster in India, its in Gujarat.
Now that you mention it, there is a possibilty he saw the Gondal 300SL roadster with a winter top on it, as that car is red with slatted grille on the side. Though that car is GJ regd.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2008, 21:09   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai Meri Jaan
Posts: 6,197
Thanked: 926 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insideman View Post
Hey,
It was not the SL190. i know the SL190 does not have the side scoops and slates but this did... now i dont knwo who would moddifly their Sl190 to look like that... leave alone an old man. so i know it was the Sl300. My friend(who was with me at the time) says it is not parked at peddar road(the ne on peddar road is owned by a parsi gentleman) but only comes to Breach Candy to fill 97 Octane fuel and that the car is actually parked at Marine Lines. I am doing my best to find the car. When i do ill do my best to get pictures and other information.
My Friend the car that you talk off is not the same car and is not red but silver. it belonged to Mr Dossa ( not Parsi) living on Peddar road and used to be parked at the WIAA building. it is now bought by Mr. Kama( Parsi). this red one does not stand in Peddar road but on altamount road. i could give you the address where the car is so that you can confirm if it is the same car. The owner of this red SL190 is in his 70's his wife is known as aunty Pinky fondly by us. i am very sure it is the same car you have seen when i saw it for the first time after it was painted i thought too that a gullwing had landed.

@ Gogi bhai, Karl it is not Hema bhai's car as his car does not have the winter top. this 190sl does. i used to see it every evening in the basement when it was blue.
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2008, 21:10   #63
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

I also spoke with Harit on the matter, he also agrees that it is probably a 190SL that was spotted. Now he says there are two of them in red in Bombay. One is the car that Speedy reffered to in the basement, and the last lot of cars sold from that owner included a Hudson, a Healey and a Cadillac. Another car used to belong to Jasdanwalla (NOT his current silver one). This was a smaller car, always seen with the hard top fitted. Jasdanwalla sold it to one Mr Bhogilal (NOT Pranlal) after he got his current 190SL, MRD regd. The car spotted on Friday was in all probability the smaller red 190SL of this Mr Bhogilal.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2008, 21:19   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai Meri Jaan
Posts: 6,197
Thanked: 926 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
I also spoke with Harit on the matter, he also agrees that it is probably a 190SL that was spotted. Now he says there are two of them in red in Bombay. One is the car that Speedy reffered to in the basement, and the last lot of cars sold from that owner included a Hudson, a Healey and a Cadillac. Another car used to belong to Jasdanwalla (NOT his current silver one). This was a smaller car, always seen with the hard top fitted. Jasdanwalla sold it to one Mr Bhogilal (NOT Pranlal) after he got his current 190SL, MRD regd. The car spotted on Friday was in all probability the smaller red 190SL of this Mr Bhogilal.
you forgot the Rolls Royce Karl .

i thought Jasdanwalla sold the 230sl maroon coloured always with a winter top and got the 190sl. so what you mean he sold one 190sl for another 190sl.
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 10:20   #65
Senior - BHPian
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai Meri Jaan
Posts: 6,197
Thanked: 926 Times
Default

Karl just spoke to my brother and he said Jasdanwalla has not sold his car. his 190sl has been restored and was painted silver. so there is only one red 190sl.
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 10:39   #66
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
Karl just spoke to my brother and he said Jasdanwalla has not sold his car. his 190sl has been restored and was painted silver. so there is only one red 190sl.
Please read my previous post more carefully

Anyways, Im just passing on info that Harit gave me. I do wish someone had pictures to sort out the confusion. Speedy, do ask your brother to help us out with the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
I also spoke with Harit on the matter, he also agrees that it is probably a 190SL that was spotted. Now he says there are two of them in red in Bombay. One is the car that Speedy reffered to in the basement, and the last lot of cars sold from that owner included a Hudson, a Healey and a Cadillac. Another car used to belong to Jasdanwalla (NOT his current silver one). This was a smaller car, always seen with the hard top fitted. Jasdanwalla sold it to one Mr Bhogilal (NOT Pranlal) after he got his current 190SL, MRD regd. The car spotted on Friday was in all probability the smaller red 190SL of this Mr Bhogilal.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 11:32   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai Meri Jaan
Posts: 6,197
Thanked: 926 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Please read my previous post more carefully

Anyways, Im just passing on info that Harit gave me. I do wish someone had pictures to sort out the confusion. Speedy, do ask your brother to help us out with the same.

that is what i am trying to say Karl. Aniruddh said Jasdanwalla had only one 190sl that is now restored and painted silver. a 190sl was not sold to Mr. Bhogilal.
I have asked him to try and ask Mr Jasdanwalla for before and after pictures of the car and to clear which car he sold. this would relieve us if the much confusion.
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 14:40   #68
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 186
Thanked: 159 Times
Default

Yes, I know this is worrying, confusing and everything more. When i first saw the car i was shocked. I own only muscle cars but i am a huge fan of mercedes Sl300s and lamborghini Miuras. As well as the Ferrari Daytona, GT250 California special(one located in pakistan)(horrible rotten condition and owner dsnt want to sell) as well as the Dino. I know my cars. and i have found out the details for you so i hope this should clarify.
The car is MH registration. The parsi Gentleman has two residences. He bought the car from Chennai. It Was originally Silver. Repainted it in red around 7 or 8 years ago and he parks the car at marine lines in his appartment garage but has a house at breachcandy. I will have the pictures and registration details and location on the car by monday or tuesday. please wait. i am as excited as you to see the car under my own nose! right before me!
insideman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 17:16   #69
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 186
Thanked: 159 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
there was one sl300 gullwing that is on record.
Still is on record... and if I prove it to you by, lets say tuesday or wednesday? What do I get out of it? Absolutely Nothing. What do you guys get out of it? Absolutely nothing, maybe a little hope to see it on the road. or perhaps buy it? I dont know, I dont have the money for a car like that. What price are you looking at for one of these In India? 2 maybe 3 crores? Im just 19, so I cant afford that. But ill just be happy to help you guys know that, ''Yes, there is still a 'Red Ruby' in India!''


JJ

Last edited by Rehaan : 16th August 2008 at 04:41. Reason: 2 smileys per post max. Please read the Team-BHP rules before posting further.
insideman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 22:34   #70
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insideman View Post
Yes, I know this is worrying, confusing and everything more. When i first saw the car i was shocked. I own only muscle cars but i am a huge fan of mercedes Sl300s and lamborghini Miuras. As well as the Ferrari Daytona, GT250 California special(one located in pakistan)(horrible rotten condition and owner dsnt want to sell) as well as the Dino. I know my cars and i have found out the details for you so i hope this should clarify.
The car is MH registration. The parsi Gentleman has two residences. He bought the car from Chennai. It Was originally Silver. Repainted it in red around 7 or 8 years ago and he parks the car at marine lines in his appartment garage but has a house at breachcandy. I will have the pictures and registration details and location on the car by monday or tuesday. please wait. i am as excited as you to see the car under my own nose! right before me!
Well, taking your above statements into consideration, I give you benefit of doubt. Looking forward to pictures of the car - Gullwing or otherwise.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 15:13   #71
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Some clarifications and an all important picture from Harit.

Quote:
So much confusion and so much inaccurate and misleading info just because of a 300 Gullwing.
Attached please find a picture of the red 190SL with hard top. This picture was taken during a rally by me some years ago and was probably outside the NCPA at Nariman Point. I was standng and looking at this car when Mr. Jasdanwalla walked past. Since he had a 190SL himself, I asked him if he knew why this car appeared smaller. He informed me something like that this was one of the earliest 190SL's in India and these early cars were smaller. But here I am subject to correction if need be. He told me that he had once owned the very same car and sold it to a Mr. Bhogilal, not Pranlal. I am sure that Mr. Jasdanwalla will know better than Speedy and his brother about his own cars. And no, he did not sell because he bought another, he can afford 10 190SL's if required and available. This red 190SL whose picture is attached was often parked at Breach Candy, nearer to Mahalaxmi.
About the 190SL on Altamount road and the owner having sold a Rolls. I think again Speedy is in error. Most probably the Rolls he refers to has been worked on in his garage, and that came from Kolkotta. Because I enquired with his Highness. He gave away 3 cars to friend of mine and he happens to have a Rolls also. Probably a misunderstanding. And his Highness's 190SL was blue, now red and does not work. This could not have been on the road. And the family will not sell because of internal family issues. Many have been there before.
About the Gullwing in India, this is a mystery. One is supposed to have come as a used car, so there will be no official records with Mercedes Benz of having delivered one to India. As recently as 6 months ago again some info had again cropped up but nothing became of it. If the car exists or existed in India we may never know unless some concrete evidence is shown. Even today, when people talk about some real existing car and it happens to lie in Kanyakumari, they will say that it is lying in Kashmir. I know many of my friends active on the forum who do this. In the end the truth comes out anyway. So I have heard that this Gullwing was in south India, east India, Delhi and even north east India. India happens to be so large! Unfortunately one cannot draw any definite conclusion on the 300 Gullwing, did it ever exist in India, where was it and where is it now, and we must see a picture of this or hear from the present or past owners.
One last line on this. We can never be sure about cars as very often surprises do spring up. Perhaps there is really a Gullwing in Mumbai after all. I was living on Altamount Road for about 10 years when my friend came from UK and told me that there were cars exactly TWO buildings away and I never knew of them at that time. So close! There was a Rolls and Alfa Romeo, the Dadi Seth cars where Mr. Dondhi now has the Rolls and the Alfa went to Indore. Things like these keep popping up like my Bantam and Packard Mayflower. These were totally unknown cars to the collecting fraternity till they came to me by chance.
Attached Thumbnails
Pics : Classic Mercedes Benz 190 SL-2.jpg  

karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 16:09   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 844 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
cant do that i'm under oath from the owner saw it at his wedding by mistake in the garage and had taken photo's too. he made me empty the roll, was heart broken but i had to respect his sentiments. his father paid a fancy amount in the days for the car. it was in cream with red seats. everything original. this my friends i talk about in 92 when i had seen it dont know its condition now
Speedy you saw the car in 92 (im guessing you're 26-27 now, so that would make you around 10 in 92) whereas Kasli says it went out of the country in the early 80's. Whats the story mere bhai?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
i would not like to doubt kasli's claim and would go with it. kasli folows cars very closely that car is exported.
Now you want to go with Kasli's story

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
there was one sl300 gullwing that is on record.
I doubt there was any Gullwing on record (MB record) unless you mean the RTO records.


Quote:
Originally Posted by insideman View Post
Still is on record... and if I prove it to you by, lets say tuesday or wednesday? What do I get out of it? Absolutely Nothing. What do you guys get out of it? Absolutely nothing, maybe a little hope to see it on the road. or perhaps buy it? I dont know, I dont have the money for a car like that. What price are you looking at for one of these In India? 2 maybe 3 crores? Im just 19, so I cant afford that. But ill just be happy to help you guys know that, ''Yes, there is still a 'Red Ruby' in India!''
.
JJ
Hey buddy chill. IF you go through this thread you will realize the skepticism around the conspiracy theory of a Gullwing in India. I will choose to call it that as I dont have any proof of its existence (though i may be wrong) or it having existed unless corroborated by pics or otherwise.
Here, we hear one is in Delhi, then the South, then Calcutta, then elsewhere and now Bombay. I have been offered a gullwing at least three times in recent times by three different dealers, the latest being a few weeks ago. Needless to say no pics or whereabouts of the car were divulged, inspite of all the information promised.
What you will get out of it , well I cant answer that but what we will get out of it...you cant imagine. Its just the knowledge of the legend being alive and no one knowing of it if it is true. That to an enthusiast in not "Nothing" my friend.
Ill be the first one to congratulate you if and when you produce the proof. Waiting for the pics my friend and i hope its true.
We all would bless you for showing us what has been so far an "Urban Legend"
Anyone who has proof please post it. No more fables please.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 16:50   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai Meri Jaan
Posts: 6,197
Thanked: 926 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasli View Post
give me some time and will give everyone the chassis number for their records for this car . I know two - three cars came with expats in the 70's and only one was imported directly. the cars with the expats went back as they came but this car was here and exported as a tractor. i have been looking for it all my life and then found out the truth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Speedy you saw the car in 92 (im guessing you're 26-27 now, so that would make you around 10 in 92) whereas Kasli says it went out of the country in the early 80's. Whats the story mere bhai?

I doubt there was any Gullwing on record (MB record) unless you mean the RTO records.
the statements were in oct 2007. bhai you missed Kasli's post, so i brought it to your notice. i see the cars and feel happy and dont follow them like kasli does so i think he would know better than me what happened of the car. i believe even Awini had stated that the cars had come down with Expats. But i guess all three of us are wrong and the cars never existed in India. I APPOLOGISE on behalf of my brother and myself.
By record i meant one car was known to exist but i guess some of the people who had seen it were wrong.
i will be 30 in the next two months bhai.

@ Harit uncle. yes Mr. Jasdanwalla and you would know his cars and others cars better than my brother n me. yes i know Mr. Jasdanwalla can afford to buy 10 190sl's if available but this was mentioned by Karl on behalf of you. that he sold one 190sl not the silver so i was clarifying if he sold one for the other. I can see that he sold the Red one to Mr Bhogilal ( not Pranlal), so why did he sell it he could have kept it as well. it would not have made him a difference. i am sure you can put more light into this. You have been following cars and their histories way longer than most of us. what we were told we shared it our mistake.
as far as my mentioning the Rolls Royce also being given to your friend Ashar uncle by his Highness. i was told this by ur friend itself in my garage when the Rolls and the Healey were being worked on. thats how i knew that they also owned the cadillac and hudson. but like you said it could be a missunderstanding on my part.

Last edited by speedy : 16th August 2008 at 16:58.
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2008, 12:33   #74
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi and Karachi
Posts: 126
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insideman View Post
Yes, I know this is worrying, confusing and everything more. When i first saw the car i was shocked. I own only muscle cars but i am a huge fan of mercedes Sl300s and lamborghini Miuras. As well as the Ferrari Daytona, GT250 California special(one located in pakistan)(horrible rotten condition and owner dsnt want to sell)
Insideman

Regretfully there is no Ferrari 250 GT California in Pakistan. There however is a 1964 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso. It is now in a reasonable state and yes, the owner does not want to sell.

PS. Read my post on the Gullwing in Pakistan.
Alvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2008, 12:40   #75
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Incidentally Mr Jasdanwalla's 190 SL is parked outside my house at this very moment, visiting a neighbour. Boy is she gorgeous! If a 190 commands this much presence, I wonder what it would be like to see a Gullwing in person. Sigh!

Since this is an SL thread, lets take a count of cars we know of.

One is the MH 01 P regd ivory car, one is BMF regd ex Nehru ex Dossa now Cama Silver car, one is Jasdanwallas MRD regd, all in mint condition. One is the red Bhogilal car, pictured above. There is one more in Pune being restored that I haven't seen. Also, one of a royal family in non running condition, also red. That takes the count to 6 cars. Am I forgetting anyone?

Last edited by karlosdeville : 17th August 2008 at 12:44.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mercedes 190 E 2.5-16 Evolution II Stratos The International Automotive Scene 16 2nd November 2014 03:46
A W201 Mercedes Benz 190 RHD of 1990 four speed manual anjan_c2007 Super-Cars & Imports in India 20 8th October 2013 22:17
Used Mercedes 190 E 2.5 L 16 valves nutmello Luxury, Imports & Niche 2 25th August 2010 10:12
1956 Mercedes 190 d v10 Post-War 29 22nd April 2009 17:00
1991 - Diesel 190 D Mercedes - Remap or Engine Swap ?? vipul_bscity Modifications & Accessories 5 18th January 2008 21:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:42.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks